Supergirl pilot has leaked and it's absolutely terrible

kitsunefather

Verbose and Meandering
Nov 29, 2010
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DementedSheep said:
I haven't watched it, it looks shit and it reminds exactly why I despise most "female targeted" media but
Aerosteam said:
Random waitress:
Can you believe it? A female hero! It's nice for my daughter to have someone like that to look up to!
Isn't that a little bit sexist? Like, how come Superman can't be a role model for her daughter?
Oh for fu-
You guys are really reaching for these "gotchas". Yes a girl can look up to a guy and vice versa but when ALL your heros of particular type are male it makes it feel like being a male a requirement and you could never be like that, especially when you have people around you reinforcing that belief. Like it or not gender is still an issue and people tend to have role models of their own gender to give cues on they should act. A work is not "sexist" because it acknowledges that rather than going the idealised route where sexism is no longer an issue.
And, in the context of the show, the only superhero right now is Superman, in Metropolis. They make it clear that he is literally Metropolis' superhero. This line didn't strike me as terribly disingenuous as much as a wink and a nod to the audience, which frankly, this show does a lot of. Like, every possibility, really.
 

Aerosteam

Get out while you still can
Sep 22, 2011
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DementedSheep said:
You guys are really reaching for these "gotchas". Yes a girl can look up to a guy and vice versa but when ALL your heros of particular type are male it makes it feel like being a male a requirement and you could never be like that, especially when you have people around you reinforcing that belief. Like it or not gender is still an issue and people tend to have role models of their own gender to give cues on they should act. A work is not "sexist" because it acknowledges that rather than going the idealised route where sexism is no longer an issue.
Considering Supergirl pretty much fights for the same morals and values as Superman and are equally capable of inspiring people, literally saying Supergirl is more of a role model than him just because she's a woman rubs me the wrong way.
 

Hoplon

Jabbering Fool
Mar 31, 2010
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I'm in the "that was terrible? did you watch arrow or AoS?" group. It's not as good as daredevil managed and squandered, but the few off beats are few and the action was fine. only a season (and not one of these 24 eps seasons with crap loads of padding... oh wait CBS) will really tell for it.
 

DementedSheep

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Jan 8, 2010
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Aerosteam said:
DementedSheep said:
You guys are really reaching for these "gotchas". Yes a girl can look up to a guy and vice versa but when ALL your heros of particular type are male it makes it feel like being a male a requirement and you could never be like that, especially when you have people around you reinforcing that belief. Like it or not gender is still an issue and people tend to have role models of their own gender to give cues on they should act. A work is not "sexist" because it acknowledges that rather than going the idealised route where sexism is no longer an issue.
Considering Supergirl pretty much fights for the same morals and values as Superman and are equally capable of inspiring people, literally saying Supergirl is more of a role model than him just because she's a woman rubs me the wrong way.
For inspiring girls in that it proves girls can be like that too. It's not somehow saying she is a better role model across the board.
 

Aerosteam

Get out while you still can
Sep 22, 2011
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DementedSheep said:
For inspiring girls in that it proves girls can be like that too. It's not somehow saying she is a better role model across the board.
It really just depends on what mindset you have. For me, I don't need "proof" to show that men and women are equally good sources for inspiration. The show is going "look, girls can do these things as well!" and I'll say "yeah, I already knew that".
 

Guerilla

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kitsunefather said:
However, in the comics, it was interesting because she saw through his awkwardness to find someone who was genuinely a good person, and here it's because he's a hot guy. Add to that they're writing him as a confident, mentor figure, and I don't really see the point of calling him Jimmy; oh, I'm sorry, "James".
In order to do it like the comics they'd have to add more than one dimensions to the character and they have too much of a low opinion of their target audience to do that. There's a lot of superficial superhero crap nowadays but this show takes the cake.

Hoplon said:
I'm in the "that was terrible? did you watch arrow or AoS?" group. It's not as good as daredevil managed and squandered, but the few off beats are few and the action was fine. only a season (and not one of these 24 eps seasons with crap loads of padding... oh wait CBS) will really tell for it.
I'm not the type that gets offended easily but comparing this trash with Daredevil is sacrilege. How dare you!

Seriously though dude, how can you compare a show with excellent, interesting characters, pacing, dialogue and atmosphere with this amateurish Grey's Anatomy crap?
 

DementedSheep

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Jan 8, 2010
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Aerosteam said:
DementedSheep said:
For inspiring girls in that it proves girls can be like that too. It's not somehow saying she is a better role model across the board.
It really just depends on what mindset you have. For me, I don't need "proof" to show that men and women are equally good sources for inspiration. The show is going "look, girls can do these things as well!" and I'll say "yeah, I already knew that".
Well good for you, not everyone has that although I would assume you are an adult anway. That cliché scene you sometimes see of boys telling a girl she has to sit in corner and play the pathetic victim because girls can't be heroes was the sort of shit I had in my actual childhood so having female role models as a kid, even fictional ones is actually helpful and someone being happy about there being a female one isn't an attack on the male ones.
 

Zontar

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Feb 18, 2013
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MarsAtlas said:
Well kids should have at least one Kryptonian to look up to that isn't a psychopath, terrorizing the entire planet and doing more damage than the supposed bad guys ever did /ManOfSteelBashing
As much as I like bashing on Man of Steel, this isn't in the same universe as that movie.
 

Aerosteam

Get out while you still can
Sep 22, 2011
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MarsAtlas said:
Aerosteam said:
Considering Supergirl pretty much fights for the same morals and values as Superman and are equally capable of inspiring people, literally saying Supergirl is more of a role model than him just because she's a woman rubs me the wrong way.
Well kids should have at least one Kryptonian to look up to that isn't a psychopath, terrorizing the entire planet and doing more damage than the supposed bad guys ever did /ManOfSteelBashing
Oh believe me, if the woman instead said:

"Can you believe it? A Kryptonian to look up to that isn't a psychopath, terrorizing the entire planet and doing more damage than the supposed bad guys ever did! It's nice for my daughter to have someone like that to look up to!"

I'd TOTALLY be for that statement.
 

The Lunatic

Princess
Jun 3, 2010
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I watched it.

Yeah, it's really bad. I mean, I enjoy a lot of female leads in action shows and movies, but, this was really bad.

Literally half the episode is "I'm just as powerful as superman" and the other half is "But, isn't it amazing that she's just as powerful as superman -and a women-!? Oh! Sorry, a girl, right."

There was this whole "gotcha" section where it just sounded like the writers were high-fiving themselves for coming up with a come-back to twitter complainers. And it just came across as really pathetic. "Girl is anti-feminist", "Well, I'm a girl, look how powerful I am!" "Yeah! Take that Tumblr!". The whole section was pointless and basically didn't really serve any other purpose than to address "feminists" who find the term "Girl" offensive.

The pacing was awful, in the space of an hour, we go from a little girl, to a super human living amongst the people, to her first use of powers, jumping to her suddenly being a suited and booted superhero wearing bulletproof spandex, to a secret military organisation being revealed, to the first villain being revealed and corresponding sub-arc about some prison that crashed into earth, to her failing to beat the first villain, to then believing in herself hard enough to overcome the first baddy and then having the "Big bad" for the series being revealed.

I get it's a pilot and you want to show off what you've got in store to get people interested, but some level of character development would have been nice. The only development we've had is "She's a woman, don't you know!".

You need more character to your female super heroes than "I'm a woman, isn't that great?!".
 

Ishal

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Oct 30, 2012
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KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
Aerosteam said:
Random waitress:
Can you believe it? A female hero! It's nice for my daughter to have someone like that to look up to!
Isn't that a little bit sexist? Like, how come Superman can't be a role model for her daughter?
Because Superman is a man and according to TERFs men can't be role models for women and girls, or really anybody. Still women can be role models for women and girls, along with maybe men and boys, but nobody cares about the latter two. At least according TERF logic, since TERFs have the loudest platform they get the most say.
TERF = Trans-exclusionary-radical-feminsits??

I've heard a bit about them. Interesting that those with issues regarding trans people have such large platform within the new third age/internet feminists. Or, perhaps it's merely that radical feminists hold such views, which makes them terfs. Suppose it doesn't really matter. Unfortunate infighting for the movement, and yet another reason why people don't want to associate.

OT: Not a fan of preachy shows, or the concept of Super Girl. I'll give this a pass.
 

DementedSheep

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Jan 8, 2010
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MarsAtlas said:
DementedSheep said:
I haven't watched it, it looks shit and it reminds exactly why I despise most "female targeted" media but
Aerosteam said:
Random waitress:
Can you believe it? A female hero! It's nice for my daughter to have someone like that to look up to!
Isn't that a little bit sexist? Like, how come Superman can't be a role model for her daughter?
Oh for fu-
You guys are really reaching for these "gotchas". Yes a girl can look up to a guy and vice versa but when ALL your heros of particular type are male it makes it feel like being a male a requirement and you could never be like that, especially when you have people around you reinforcing that belief. Like it or not gender is still an issue and people tend to have role models of their own gender to give cues on they should act. A work is not "sexist" because it acknowledges that rather than going the idealised route where sexism is no longer an issue.
While I'm in agreement with your general sentiment, I don't think that a work of fiction should ever outright address this unless they're intending to break the fourth wall. Aliens, Terminator 2 and The Matrix didn't do it and the movies were better for it. Power Rangers, PowerPuff Girls[footnote]I think they did one episode that kind of lampshaded the idea and rejected the whole "girl power" stuff while acknowledging the need for female superheroes[/footnote] and Teen Titans didn't do it and the shows were better for it.
Sure, I'm not claiming the show is good. Its looks like a show that has no sense of subtlety and comes across as peachy but the sentiment behind that is fine.
 

DementedSheep

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inu-kun said:
My general opinion about this sort of things is: "if one of the first ways you describe a character is it's gender you suck as a writer".

For example: Homura-"Batman esque time manipulator who want to save her friend".
Ryuko-"schoolgirl outfit wearing badass with a cool sword and mommy issues".

Meanwhile the new Tomb Raider: "a girl who faces life and death scenerios and is the most important person ever".
The writer didn't describe them like that, you did. You can easily describe the new Tomb Raider without mentioning gender. Making up your own simplified description of a character then slapping gender at the front and claiming this is why they suck is ludicrous.
 

Jux

Hmm
Sep 2, 2012
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ravenshrike said:
Well, no. The point of 2nd wave feminism was to make gender not an issue. The point of 3rd wave feminism is to abolish gender structures across society, including little unimportant things like incest taboos, entirely.
Do I even want to know why you'd think such a thing?
 

runic knight

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Mar 26, 2011
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MarsAtlas said:
Well kids should have at least one Kryptonian to look up to that isn't a psychopath, terrorizing the entire planet and doing more damage than the supposed bad guys ever did /ManOfSteelBashing
I'm going to hold out for Krypto, the superdog at this point. Hard to make a dog hero an unlikable, bad character.

Superman was just terrible, destructive and a bastardization of the man of steel to appeal to a perception of "the audience wants to see transformers type explosions and destruction". Supergirl here sounds terrible in a different way though just as much a bastardization for audience perception.

Dc, really not giving me confidence abut anything you touch with this sort of crap.
 

Redryhno

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Jul 25, 2011
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DementedSheep said:
inu-kun said:
My general opinion about this sort of things is: "if one of the first ways you describe a character is it's gender you suck as a writer".

For example: Homura-"Batman esque time manipulator who want to save her friend".
Ryuko-"schoolgirl outfit wearing badass with a cool sword and mommy issues".

Meanwhile the new Tomb Raider: "a girl who faces life and death scenerios and is the most important person ever".
The writer didn't describe them like that, you did. You can easily describe the new Tomb Raider without mentioning gender. Making up your own simplified description of a character then slapping gender at front and claiming this is why they suck is ludicrous.
Well...it doesn't exactly help when every male you meet ends up dead because cutscene Lara's a scared little girl and won't go and do what needs to be done without someone else going and sacrificing themselves to get her to do anything...I mean, there's like only one guy you run into that doesn't end up dead by the end in the entire story. And I'm pretty sure he was just forgotten about by the writing staff considering the amount of screentime he gets, I thinkthe only noteworthy thing he does at all is hand you a new bow.

MarsAtlas said:
While I'm in agreement with your general sentiment, I don't think that a work of fiction should ever outright address this unless they're intending to break the fourth wall. Aliens, Terminator 2 and The Matrix didn't do it and the movies were better for it. Power Rangers, PowerPuff Girls and Teen Titans didn't do it and the shows were better for it. And I'm pretty sure that's simply because the writers forgot about him.

Well kids should have at least one Kryptonian to look up to that isn't a psychopath, terrorizing the entire planet and doing more damage than the supposed bad guys ever did /ManOfSteelBashing
Except all those shows did episodes based around Girl Power....and they're largely considered the worst parts of them. At least in PPG's case they also had Femme Fatale screaming about feminism justifying her actions and twisting it to suit her needs to balance it out.
 

Flames66

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Aug 22, 2009
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From the trailer!

It looks like a "coming of age" story of the sort where the protagonist is so earnest (in a wide eyed and breathless kind of way) it makes me uncomfortable. I don't particularly like those and probably won't watch this one. I prefer my protagonists to already know who they are and what they are about.