Superman gets too much shit (And underrated heroes in general)

[VoidWanderer]

So after seeing The Dark Knight Rises last week, me and a few of my friends got into a bit of a discussion about superheroes. The overwhelming consensus was that Batman was the best hero out there, and that no other superhero could compare. So after we come off this Batman buzz I mention how after seeing The Man of Steel teaser, I was pretty excited for seeing Superman on the big screen (Especially after the shit that was Superman Returns). Some of my friends however were... less, excited, citing Superman as a boring, stupid overpowered hero, with any of the depth that Batman has.

This is a mindset I see a lot around the internet, and its one that I used to share myself. However after studying a few superhero films for my English class, and reading up on Superman and the ideas behind him, I started thinking "Man, we give Superman too much shit".

He's cheesy, he's overpowered, he's boring. These are the three main things I usually hear in regards to Superman, and it got me wondering, at what point did liking Superman become uncool?

Supes is the superhero, A guy with incredible powers who does nothing but help people. Back when we were kids that was all you needed in a character, but these days it seems you need a tragic backstory and layers of darkness to be taken seriously.

I like Superman because he's a character that by all rights should be a god, but chooses to walk among us. He could be a king, but he chooses to serve us. He could take all he wanted with his power, but he chooses to give instead.
Superman teaches us that if you have power, you should use it to protect people, that you should always do the right thing. And that in the end, even the mightiest of us are still human.

So heres to you Superman, keep fighting the good fight. You still have a fan out there. And heres to all you underappreciated Superheroes.

[small]except aquaman, fuck that guy[/small]

p.s. Its like one in the morning I just wanted to tell someone how much I like Superman, and that In a way, he keeps my childhood dreams around. Also I still really like Batman, he's still my favourite hero.

EDIT: Just to give this thread a bit more flavour, why dont you all post a hero you think is underappreciated?

You're right, he is THE iconic superhero, and I find him incredibly boring. The guy has more powers that he needs, and the McWeaksauce of Kryptonite is just sad,. When they retconned in Magic as a weakness, he seemed slightly more 'real', but at the end of the day he has no actual motivation.

Look at this guy, he is nigh unstoppable and wants to be the nice guy. It is too implausible. It is like a super-rich guy looking after some homeless people, buying them clothes and things, but not helping them get employed.

I prefer Captain Marvel over Superman because he was chosen to be the 'Champion of Magic'. Supes is the man who thinks he knows better than everyone else, at least that is a leading impression of him. He has no reason to help us, and while it's kinda nice that he does, there are other sper-heroes out there with similar powers to him, but everyone wants the big blue.

Though my respect for Superman did increase when I was watching an episode in Smallville. Clark and Lex were discussing the painitngs in the cave and Lex points out what you did about Superman/Naman, how he could take over the world. Clark mentions that Naman's brother betray's Naman which to Clark is an evil act, but Lex says something along the lines of

'What if by betraying Naman, the brother is helping Naman want to help people.'

I can't remember the exact scene but it was brilliant.

 

[Winnosh]

He's got a very set list of powers and abilities and character traits.
Power:
Super Strength
Super Speed
Heat vision
Super hearing
Telescopic/Microscopic vision
adaptive body aura
Eh most of his superpowers are just normal human abilities supercharged.

Abilities not listed under powers
Eidetic memory
Master roboticict
Master Biologist
Master Programer
Master of several forms of Kryptonian and Earth based Martial arts
Knowledge of and use of Kryptonian mental combat.
Award winning investigative journalist and novelist

That's it and there are plenty of superheroes with far more powers. Hell take Green Lantern for instance.

 

[Rellik San]

Superman does not have every power ever. Superman does not make up powers on the fly. That doesn't happen and anyone saying that has never read the comics.

Super Basketweaving isn't him inventing a basket weaving power. Its him using super speed to weave a basket for gods sake. Nearly anytime someone says. Oh but he's making up a power here with Super Friction. No people That's just him using regular friction at superspeed.

The writers just used to put super in front of it to make it look cool and explain that he's using his powers to make something ordinary more extraordinary. It isn't a superpower

Ok then, what about extended his bioelectrical force field so he can net a space craft and bring it back from the sun?

I call bullshit on that.


HOWEVER, that isn't to say I dislike Superman, believe me I'm damn excited for the movie, but I think he's at his best when writers question the effects Supermans antics have on the common man. Also remember people, he isn't all powerful as Billy Batson could kick 7 shades out of him, Kryptonians being susceptible to magic. Where I think a lot of the Supes hate comes from, is just a lot of writers have no idea what do with an immensely powerful character like Supes without resorting to Kryptonite bullets.

Superman's backstory is just as tragic as Bruce Waynes, the only difference is where as Bruce embraced the darkness, Supes was always shown light. The two are sides of the same coin, one maybe vengeance, he may be night, HE IS THE GODDAMN BATMAN! but the other is the defender of truth, justice and not just the American way.

 

[Winnosh]

So after seeing The Dark Knight Rises last week, me and a few of my friends got into a bit of a discussion about superheroes. The overwhelming consensus was that Batman was the best hero out there, and that no other superhero could compare. So after we come off this Batman buzz I mention how after seeing The Man of Steel teaser, I was pretty excited for seeing Superman on the big screen (Especially after the shit that was Superman Returns). Some of my friends however were... less, excited, citing Superman as a boring, stupid overpowered hero, with any of the depth that Batman has.

This is a mindset I see a lot around the internet, and its one that I used to share myself. However after studying a few superhero films for my English class, and reading up on Superman and the ideas behind him, I started thinking "Man, we give Superman too much shit".

He's cheesy, he's overpowered, he's boring. These are the three main things I usually hear in regards to Superman, and it got me wondering, at what point did liking Superman become uncool?

Supes is the superhero, A guy with incredible powers who does nothing but help people. Back when we were kids that was all you needed in a character, but these days it seems you need a tragic backstory and layers of darkness to be taken seriously.

I like Superman because he's a character that by all rights should be a god, but chooses to walk among us. He could be a king, but he chooses to serve us. He could take all he wanted with his power, but he chooses to give instead.
Superman teaches us that if you have power, you should use it to protect people, that you should always do the right thing. And that in the end, even the mightiest of us are still human.

So heres to you Superman, keep fighting the good fight. You still have a fan out there. And heres to all you underappreciated Superheroes.

[small]except aquaman, fuck that guy[/small]

p.s. Its like one in the morning I just wanted to tell someone how much I like Superman, and that In a way, he keeps my childhood dreams around. Also I still really like Batman, he's still my favourite hero.

EDIT: Just to give this thread a bit more flavour, why dont you all post a hero you think is underappreciated?

You're right, he is THE iconic superhero, and I find him incredibly boring. The guy has more powers that he needs, and the McWeaksauce of Kryptonite is just sad,. When they retconned in Magic as a weakness, he seemed slightly more 'real', but at the end of the day he has no actual motivation.

Look at this guy, he is nigh unstoppable and wants to be the nice guy. It is too implausible. It is like a super-rich guy looking after some homeless people, buying them clothes and things, but not helping them get employed.

I prefer Captain Marvel over Superman because he was chosen to be the 'Champion of Magic'. Supes is the man who thinks he knows better than everyone else, at least that is a leading impression of him. He has no reason to help us, and while it's kinda nice that he does, there are other sper-heroes out there with similar powers to him, but everyone wants the big blue.

Though my respect for Superman did increase when I was watching an episode in Smallville. Clark and Lex were discussing the painitngs in the cave and Lex points out what you did about Superman/Naman, how he could take over the world. Clark mentions that Naman's brother betray's Naman which to Clark is an evil act, but Lex says something along the lines of

'What if by betraying Naman, the brother is helping Naman want to help people.'

I can't remember the exact scene but it was brilliant.

Dude I give you props for likeing Captain Marvel, but no Superman is not someone to force his ideals on others, thats kinda the point of the character, that with all these powers he knows that he doesn't know anything and that for him to force his opinion on others would be the greatest sin. He's a good man, he's not god.


A

 

[Kikyoo]

For me Superman occupies the same place most vampire centered movies do. The "struggle" loses a lot of meaning when the hero just shrugs off punishment and never get's injured until it's the climax. A GOOD hero is an underdog, and even if Superman is "written" to be an underdog he never "feels" like an underdog. Even when he dies, I find myself unable to care at all. Because when they do something like that, it's either kriptonite, or some powerful dude who can, for some reason, hurt superman? I mean it's like the writers got lazy and decided this bad guy's power level is high enough to hurt superman! cause all the billions of guys he fought before weren't at that power level?

I find Superman a very tiresome symbol of Super Heroes. He's the ultimate fan fic. The ultimate mary sue. Him and Batman. But I just wana get one thing straight for the record. I dislike Batman more than Superman. He's another case of "He's the underdog, but not really." so it's just hard for me to care about him at all. I watch Batman stuff to see the villains, because they feel like the real underdogs and no matter what villain batman goes against I always end up rooting for them. Superman? Sometimes, I find his villains (Luthor) less interesting.

And just for the record I'm not about to give Marvel an easier time, frankly I find many of the heroes there to be tiresome as well. The setting is nifty and I kinda like a few things there, but overall I simply can not really get into Marvel either. So many times the heroes just pull a victory right out of their asses. The Marvel movies are better, but I'm not going to credit the Marvel comics to that, or the marvel characters. So all in all I find Superheros tiresome. So I'll leave off with this thought.

Every Pokemon in the Pokemon Universe has another Pokemon out there that is strong against them. This makes every Pokemon flawed, and no one among the the "Best". These flaws give the Pokemon character, and make them interesting beyond using them for a varied battle system. This is why the Pokemon Cartoon did so well, and continues to exist to this day. Flawed characters with established weaknesses that are given moments to shine are more compelling than someone who is literally born to win.

 

[Winnosh]

I find this guy far more interesting than Superman

Then we get a horrible funeral issue with all the characters telling us how wonderful he was. Oh and he totaly got to take Rogue's virginity And was so much better than every other Marvel hero and they all looked up to him, and he we'll all be sorry he's dead. *eyerolls*

But when Magneto and Rogue were dating in the late 90s early 2000, he figured out how to use his magnetism to create a barrier around Rogue that protected him, but also allowed her to feel what is going on. Plus I think other writers came up with using Inhibitor Bands on Rogue when she first dated Gambit so she could have sex with him.

Yes but they didn't sleep together. And according to that issue Sentry had tapped dat. years before.

Remy might not have, but I believe that Magneto and Rogue did. I remember the complaint fest in the wake of the Sentry's funeral describing specifically that moment in comic book history. Also, it does not work when Rogue kept saying he was the only one that could, which is contradicted by the comic book themselves. Grief or not, does not matter. Sorry, but I'm going to default to obsessive nerds who care about this more than I do.

* Bows * And yes its offensive to me because it is Marvel taking a shit on Rogue's character to make another one seem more badass. See Sentry was cool He slept with Rogue.

 

[Winnosh]

Superman does not have every power ever. Superman does not make up powers on the fly. That doesn't happen and anyone saying that has never read the comics.

Super Basketweaving isn't him inventing a basket weaving power. Its him using super speed to weave a basket for gods sake. Nearly anytime someone says. Oh but he's making up a power here with Super Friction. No people That's just him using regular friction at superspeed.

The writers just used to put super in front of it to make it look cool and explain that he's using his powers to make something ordinary more extraordinary. It isn't a superpower

Ok then, what about extended his bioelectrical force field so he can net a space craft and bring it back from the sun?

I call bullshit on that.

He was expanding his energy field. Something he's always had. And he could extend it that way because his body was being overloaded its why he can't do that normaly.

The energy field is what lets him do a lot of things. Its why his clothing doesn't get torn to shreds in every fight, Its why he can pick up a plane without it breaking apart, Its why he can hold someone and protect them from flames or energy blasts. Any attack has to get past this before it gets to him. Its not like a superpowerful force field. since anything that could hurt him would automatically be powerful enough to bypass it.

 

[Rellik San]

Superman does not have every power ever. Superman does not make up powers on the fly. That doesn't happen and anyone saying that has never read the comics.

Super Basketweaving isn't him inventing a basket weaving power. Its him using super speed to weave a basket for gods sake. Nearly anytime someone says. Oh but he's making up a power here with Super Friction. No people That's just him using regular friction at superspeed.

The writers just used to put super in front of it to make it look cool and explain that he's using his powers to make something ordinary more extraordinary. It isn't a superpower

Ok then, what about extended his bioelectrical force field so he can net a space craft and bring it back from the sun?

I call bullshit on that.

He was expanding his energy field. Something he's always had. And he could extend it that way because his body was being overloaded its why he can't do that normaly.

The energy field is what lets him do a lot of things. Its why his clothing doesn't get torn to shreds in every fight, Its why he can pick up a plane without it breaking apart, Its why he can hold someone and protect them from flames or energy blasts. Any attack has to get past this before it gets to him. Its not like a superpowerful force field. since anything that could hurt him would automatically be powerful enough to bypass it.

Ah my bad on that front. A lot of my exposure to Superman is either in JLA, TV or Movie form, so do forgive my lack of knowledge on that front.

 

[TheFederation]

[small]except aquaman, fuck that guy[/small]

looks like someone has never read aquaman

 

[Garrett]

Also while Superman is weak to magic. People misinterpret this. He is weak to irrational chaotic forces of magic. If someone magics up a fireball and throws it at him, it won't hurt him because he is immune to fire, it being magic doesn't matter. But someone makes him swap bodies with someone, mind controlls him or casts an illusion it will affect him like anybody else.

Then it's not a weakness, rather not invulnerability. So why is magic called his weakness.

Also to few of you who accuse people of knowing nothing about Superman, just because they don't read comics about him from past 10 years or so. Why does it matter? Just because writers toned down Sups in last ten years doesn't eradicate his history. It's only natural that people who didn't like him in times when he was very OPed, don't give a jack shit about him now. And inb4 "Batman was cheesy character in the past too and now everyone loves him", Batman pretty much took a 180° turn in his portrayal. According to you, Sups only got his powers limited. That isn't a change that would prompt people to suddenly like the guy. It needs more time an more capable writers.

 

[The_Blue_Rider]

[small]except aquaman, fuck that guy[/small]

looks like someone has never read aquaman

Im surprised it took this long for someone to defend Aquaman o.o

And Ill admit Aquaman is actually pretty badass, like if he had all his powers but he lived on land, no one would give him any crap

 

[Skipper zammo]

[small]except aquaman, fuck that guy[/small]

looks like someone has never read aquaman

I'm not even a particular fan of Aquaman and him being such a joke still drives me crazy.

Does anyone even know why they're making fun of him? or are they just saying it because it's a thing people say?

 

[Ledan]

Spider-man is best hero!
Nah, but he is one of my favorites. You gotta roll with it and laugh at the world. So Deadpool and Spidey are in my opinion the best heroes.
Plus, neither of them is a billionaire or without flaws.

 

[PlasticLion]

I'm not much of a comic book fan, so my opinion might be a little too casual for some of the people here. I like Superman just fine but I've always felt that he is DC's favorite pet. Reading this thread reminded me of one episode of the 90's Superman cartoon that really got on my nerves.

In that episode, Speed Demons, Superman and Flash are racing and the race ends in a tie. Really? Couldn't they have let Flash be just a little bit faster? Throw the guy a frickin' bone, super speed is all he has. "No no," said the writers. "Superman can't lose. Quit being silly."

 

[PorkChopXpress]

Anyone who thinks Superman is boring needs to read All Star Superman by Grant Morrison or Birthright by Mark Waid. Two examples of Superman done right even with all his "overpowered-ness". Someone brought up that Punisher hasn't had any decent writers besides Garth Ennis, I would argue that Greg Rucka has been doing a fantastic job of writing him lately and Rick Remender did great work with the Frankencastle arc. Lastly, Aquaman is the shit, check out his current run...he's fucking awesome!

 

[Rellik San]

Anyone who thinks Superman is boring needs to read All Star Superman by Grant Morrison or Birthright by Mark Waid. Two examples of Superman done right even with all his "overpowered-ness". Someone brought up that Punisher hasn't had any decent writers besides Garth Ennis, I would argue that Greg Rucka has been doing a fantastic job of writing him lately and Rick Remender did great work with the Frankencastle arc. Lastly, Aquaman is the shit, check out his current run...he's fucking awesome!

As I said... it all depends on the writers.

It's one reason that the "Nolan does batman as he should be," crowd piss me off... NO HE DOESN'T as what Batman 'should' be is dependent on at least 4 different factors, not least of which is who's writing him.

 

[Eddy-16]

[small]except aquaman, fuck that guy[/small]

Hey! I'll have none of that Aquaman is a badass. I say what pretty much everyone else has already he's just too overpowered to be interesting, the guy has like 3 weaknesses kryptonite magic and Doomsday. Still going to give the movie a chance though.

 

[Kolby Jack]

Since when is Batman a superhero? Wouldn't that imply that he has super powers? I know economic times are tough but we are mentally stable enough still to realize the wealthy aren't super humans, right? Kidding aside Batman isn't a super hero he is simply a hero. Now that is out of the way...

Superman is one of the worst comic book characters to ever exist. I would argue that he isn't even a hero at all. A hero is a person that puts some sort of risk to themselves for a good cause. Superman just doesn't have this threat to himself. I don't know if the current comics still follow this line but even kryptonite at one point became beneficial to him! Removing his one weakness that was never a large enough weakness to ever actually ever stop him
more than a short period of time anyways.

If there was ever proof that you have never read a single Superman comic in your life, it's that you just said Superman isn't risking himself in his battles. He's NOT invincible. He CAN be hurt. His loved ones can be hurt. He DIED for a while. There are numerous stories about the consequences of Superman's heroics. There are many beings in the DCU far stronger than he is. Green kryptonite doesn't take away his powers (that's red sunlight that does that), it just kills him, slowly and painfully. So any time kryptonite comes into play, his life is very much in danger. Don't try to discuss things you clearly know NOTHING about.

Okay reporting you for the personal attack at the end.

As for your points I never claimed he could not be hurt. Certainly he suffers wounds when fighting other extremely powerful beings. But you decided to put words in my mouth. In most encounters there really isn't much threat even when he does fight a greater challenge everything is always so predictable. As for his death in the 90's one no one believed he would truly stay gone his death was meaningless.

As for his loved ones being able to be hurt, so what? So does every single comic book character that has personal connections to others. Hell, even a common man in real life could easily find themselves in such situations. This isn't either a heroic or even mildly interesting trait if anything it is too over used. So once again Superman falls into blandness. I'm actually baffled on why this would be thought of as a defense to defend the character.

Superman is a old comic book character and one that helped comics be successful he played a major role in this and nothing can take that away. But he is only held on because of this. It would be more respectful to put the character to rest than to endless beat the dead horse that he's become.

If you would like to continue this discussion I would love to but do ask that you remain civil and respectful unlike your last comment.

All of your complaints are generic complaints that could be said of many characters and aren't exclusive to Superman at all, which just further shows you don't really have any context for your arguments. Hell, you cited him being immune or benefiting from kryptonite, which hasn't happened in AGES. The last story I can remember where he became immune was All-Star Superman, and that was because he was dying from too much sun exposure. Hence we arrive back at my original point: don't try to discuss things when you have absolutely none of the context necessary to discuss them. Anybody can skim a wikipedia page, but it doesn't make you knowledgeable. Your context is outdated, your points are generic, and your attempts to appear all "high-ground" are transparent. So really, until you go do some actual research into this topic....

And I know it's not a personal attack because this time I said please!

Well most characters fall into mediocrity whether it be through the character itself being rather poorly developed or the countless that have potential but get neglected. Obviously Superman fits within the poorly developed. Just look at what you said you actually admit those major character flaws exist in most characters so how is Superman special in any form of way? Why are you even defending him if you admit this yourself?

I never claimed to be a major fan of Superman or a heavy reader of the comics. I will gladly admit the last comics I read containing him were back in the 90's but I really doubt he has evolved much if any since then. There really isn't a need to go all fanboy on here. If you like Superman, fine. But be a adult about this and understand that some people do not like him and have reasons for such. Nor does one have to be hardcore follower to see aspects they do not like.

There you are again! Trying to make points when you already admit your understanding of Superman is dated by about 15-20 years. Now you're pulling out the tired old fanboy argument? Playing the victim? Laaaaaame. Those problems I said were true of many characters means that any decent writer can find a way around them, and that goes for Superman as well. He's NOT special, that's my point. Notice how when people in this thread have legit complaints about Superman, i didn't feel the need to comment on them? I'm not defending him against reasonable and fair criticism, I'm defending him against your incredibly flawed and irrelevant perspective on him. You come in here wallowing in ignorance and looking like a fool, and I'm just telling you to stop it. You have nothing to contribute, no point to be made. By your own admission, your perspective is flawed and outdated. Just stop.

 

[UnmotivatedSlacker]

Also while Superman is weak to magic. People misinterpret this. He is weak to irrational chaotic forces of magic. If someone magics up a fireball and throws it at him, it won't hurt him because he is immune to fire, it being magic doesn't matter. But someone makes him swap bodies with someone, mind controlls him or casts an illusion it will affect him like anybody else.

Then it's not a weakness, rather not invulnerability. So why is magic called his weakness.

Also to few of you who accuse people of knowing nothing about Superman, just because they don't read comics about him from past 10 years or so. Why does it matter?

Because judging a character based off of outdated information is dumb. A lot can happen to a character in 10 years.