Superman is bisexual now!!!

TheMysteriousGX

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I know we're focusing on the corporate side of this but we also have to consider that Marvel and DC work on the "get new writers and artists for most storylines and broadly let them do whatever" model. It's two entire comic universes made up of themed anthologies. Sometimes it doesn't work and the older iterations come back, sometimes it works and you get Harley and Poison Ivy, but, at least most of the time, they've at least poached writers and artists who want this to be a thing.
 
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Xprimentyl

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I can't help but feel like "bi" is getting thrown around because its a less scary word than gay.
EXACTLY. It's why new menu items are initially limited releases to limited markets; they want to see if it'll sell before they boast "this is a thing we sell everywhere, all the time now." Shows they've not the confidence in their product to go all in untested, and the fact that they're testing a "bi" Superman is evidence inclusion and progressiveness aren't their real goals.

EDIT: To be fair, I get that the comics industry isn't a humanitarian movement; it's a business, and a broader customer base makes the business more money. I just wish they were less crass about it. As it stands, they're basically like pro-abortion political candidates who go out of their way for photo ops kissing babies.
 
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Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Don't get hung up on my real-case analogy. My POINT is that no one of note and with the means is willing to go all in on a non-novelty LGBTQ+ main character. They will, however, dip their toes in the water with the novelty of "mixing up" a cash cow for a minute or two. I mean, it's Superman; people will buy him on name alone. When people find out they've made him bi, they will or won't like it, but either way, money has been made. It's a shrewd and crude pretense of inclusivity. A more earnest outing would be a new hero who happens to be bi versus a popular, established, multi-million dollar hero who's suddenly sexually explorative 80 years after his inception, y'know, coincidentally when LGBTQ+ representation is à la mode.
No it wouldn't. Its easy to make a new hero who is bi or something, its hard to make them popular, but it would be weird to put a massive advertising budget around any new hero, let alone a bi one. Its much much riskier to take a name like Superman and go with it.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
I can't help but feel like "bi" is getting thrown around because its a less scary word than gay.
Probably, but also it seems like bi representation is even more rare then gay in media, especially for guys, more common for girls.
 
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Xprimentyl

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No it wouldn't. Its easy to make a new hero who is bi or something, its hard to make them popular, but it would be weird to put a massive advertising budget around any new hero, let alone a bi one. Its much much riskier to take a name like Superman and go with it.
Superman would probably still sell if they wrote him as as a Nazi sympathizer; making him bi for the moment has about as much a social impact as a slap with a wet noodle, but the pretense is "inclusiveness," and that's my issue. True inclusiveness would mean taking those risks and investing in something new the LGBTQ+ community could own, but they're not doing that here (hence my "millionaire at the penny slots" analogy which you feel fell flat; ) they're banking on the least risk and expecting high praise. It's condescending.
 
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Ezekiel

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I didn't even know Superman had a son. The rule34 artists apparently always thought he was really gay. I'm surprised they made him bi and not gay. Like Worgen said, bisexuality is rarer in fiction. For both sexes.
 
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Piscian

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Probably, but also it seems like bi representation is even more rare then gay in media, especially for guys, more common for girls.
Idk. I feel like its thrown out there pretty casually these days because parents can handle it as long as theres a chance they'll find someone "normal" and have kids. Pretty sure everyone is bisexual these days. I don't think Gen-z kids even allowed to say they've hit puberty unless they come out as bi.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Idk. I feel like its thrown out there pretty casually these days because parents can handle it as long as theres a chance they'll find someone "normal" and have kids. Pretty sure everyone is bisexual these days. I don't think Gen-z kids even allowed to say they've hit puberty unless they come out as bi.
I think that most people are somewhere on the bi spectrum as it were, just with a heavy preference one way or another. Either they haven't been exposed to the right same sex person to want to go into it, or they feel some societal pressure to ignore it.

Superman would probably still sell if they wrote him as as a Nazi sympathizer; making him bi for the moment has about as much a social impact as a slap with a wet noodle, but the pretense is "inclusiveness," and that's my issue. True inclusiveness would mean taking those risks and investing in something new the LGBTQ+ community could own, but they're not doing that here (hence my "millionaire at the penny slots" analogy which you feel fell flat; ) they're banking on the least risk and expecting high praise. It's condescending.
I mean any established character would sell if you did anything 'weird' to them, if only to collectors trying to get comics that will be worth a lot later, doesn't mean they would keep selling. You seem to forget that comics tend not to be huge money makers, there are exceptions, but they don't make bank like they did in the past.
 

Xprimentyl

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I mean any established character would sell if you did anything 'weird' to them, if only to collectors trying to get comics that will be worth a lot later, doesn't mean they would keep selling. You seem to forget that comics tend not to be huge money makers, there are exceptions, but they don't make bank like they did in the past.
So inclusion of the LGBTQ+ community has a price tag over its intrinsic value to said community? Fine.
 

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I recall that DC at one point declared that the green Lantern was gay. By which they meant a version of the green Lantern that isn't actually the one people care about is gay.

What ever became of that? This is the lens through which I watch this announcement, so seeing how it turned out eventually last time could be worthwhile.
 
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Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
So inclusion of the LGBTQ+ community has a price tag over its intrinsic value to said community? Fine.
Duh, everything has a price tag on it. That is how humans work, the price might be monetary or societal, but there is always a price tag.
 

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This is somewhat off-topic, but I find it funny how Studio Trigger has an LGBQT fan base for nearly all of their works. ST have no problems with it, make no big fuss or muss, and are more than happy to accept them. Then again, there's at least some ambiguity or implied nature of the character(s) in various works. And they don't come offf as negative stereotypes of said community either.
  • LGBT Fanbase: It's safe to say Trigger has this when we look at the content of their shows. For example:
    • Kill la Kill might shamelessly pander to the Male Gaze with its fanservice, but that doesn't stop queer women from enjoying it too, not to mention the small Yuri moments between the girls help. Queer men also appreciate the large number of Mr. Fanservice characters that wear Stripperific outfits and have their Yaoi moments too.
    • Little Witch Academia having a fanbase of Queer Women was inevitable given that it was set in an all-female Wizarding School. Despite the creators constantly shooting down possibilities of romance, The Hero Akko is tagged as Ambiguously Bi due to her numerous Ship Tease moments with Diana and Andrew while Shiny Chariot and Croix have a lot of Foe Yay too.
    • SSSS.GRIDMAN is as much as a love story between Rika and Akane as much as it is about Gridman fighting Kaiju. The fact that Akane's closest relationship is with Rika who she flirts with the same way she does with a virtual harem of male protagonists and the fact that Rika is based on her real self gives their relationship a theme of coming to terms with one's sexuality, especially for bi people. Oh, and Yuta and Utsumi crossdress, Anti's obsession with Gridman veers into Foe Yay after the revelation that Gridman's been possessing Yuta the whole time, and the Neon Genesis Junior High Students (that are obviously older than Junior High students mind you) consists of four different males that appeal to all tastes.
    • DARLING in the FRANXX might place a lot of emphasis on male and female connections in powering mecha, but the implications of this set up are touched on with the all but stated to be bi Mitsuru and lesbian Ikuno facing issues with Incompatible Orientation with their initial crushes. The pilots of the Nines are also all under Ambiguous Gender given the way they handle Franxx piloting outside of the assigned gender roles.
    • Promare has been a God Send for Queer Men and has been called "Twink vs. Hunk" given the dynamics between the two main opposing characters. Their relationship is filled with Ho Yay and even features a kiss on the big screen between them.
 
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CriticalGaming

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This is somewhat off-topic, but I find it funny how Studio Trigger has an LGBQT fan base for nearly all of their works. ST have no problems with it, make no big fuss or muss, and are more than happy to accept them. Then again, there's at least some ambiguity or implied nature of the character(s) in various works. And they don't come offf as negative stereotypes of said community either.
I think that's because they have established themselves as having LBGT crowds in part of their target audience.

DC and Marvel never had that as a focus or even a consideration. I think what bothers people is that they are forcing LBGTQ aspects into existing characters and established franchises. If Marvel and DC created brand new comic labels or brand new series with new characters, new heroes, new everything and made them LBGT friendly, I honestly think nobody would make a fuss.
 

Hawki

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but this recent trend of blatant pandering is just so disingenuous, I find it hard to believe those in the LGBTQ+ community can really appreciate it.
I visit the Mary Sue every so often (because I believe in sampling a variety of opinions), and they seemed pretty chuffed about it.

There are ways it can be done naturally and organically, like create a NEW hero/character and have that be an innate trait of the character. A black Human Torch didn't "include" me... because the Human Torch isn't black. I know this. EVERYONE knows this. Coopting existing and iconic characters and saying "oh, they're gay now" or "oh, they're black now" does nothing for anyone. If anything, I feel it's insulting and hampers progress in that it gives those who aren't so understanding or accepting something else to rail at while they feel the minorities and gays are coming for their toys.
Um...

Look, I'm not going to get into this too much, but isn't there a case for a colour-blind approach? Because you're right about the Human Torch for instance, but on the other hand, we have Jackson's Nick Fury, or Deadpool 2's Domino (forget the actress).

Usually wary about this, as it carries the assumption that any deviation from the 'norm' is inherently pandering. Again, using the Nick Fury example, the assumption that it's "pandering" is iffy to both the people who Fury could be said to represent, and those who he doesn't - the assumption one's attachment to a character is going to be linked to their appearance ipso facto. To flip back to FanFstic, one can point to many issues in that movie, but Johnny Storm being black isn't one of them. It introduces a few lines of dialogue (explaining that he and Sue are foster siblings), and that's it. The movie doesn't change for better or worse with this.

When it comes to the superhero genre especially though that puts representation between a rock and a hard place, since making new characters isn't something that superhero comics tend to do too much. The mainstays are always going to be every character that was made pre-2000. Which means we're stuck with a whole lot of straight white guys, unless we have one of those mainstays come out as a different sexuality, or portray them with diffrent skin color in a movie adaptation.

The cynical part of me sees this as an obvious and shallow corporate attempt to appeal to the current mindset that has a growing acceptance of the LGBTQ+ community, but at the same time I realize this is likely the only real fighting chance a gay (or in this case bi) superhero has to actually gain a foothold. Because creating one from scratch not only has the non-straight aspect against it, but also that of being a totally new superhero.

And I mean, the assholes are going to rail regardless, there's no need to try and placate them. They'll find shit to accuse of wokeness no matter what.
Well first, new heroes can absolutely succeed, whether they be spin-offs of pre-existing heroes (e.g. Miles Morales), or completely new ones (e.g. Kamala Khan). I don't think either of these characters are going to enter the public's general zeitgeist, but for those with even passing knowledge of the genre (which includes myself - superhero comics aren't really my thing), I'd say that most people have heard of them.

But if we're going down the representation rabbithole, how many bi characters do you want, because if you're representing the general population, it's going to be less than 5%. Around 2% for females, and 1.3% for males IIRC. This isn't an argument for quotas mind you, but, well, my approach is generally lassire faire.
 

Hawki

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Superman, a straight white savior. Really. I don't know if the author is implying that a "straight savior" is a thing, whatever that would be, but calling Supes a white savior, especially the modern version, is a gigantic stretch.
Supes is a straight flight saviour.

He comes down, flies around, and saves humanity because we're helpless. :p

But if someone wanted to have the "balls" try a new, black hero that isn't riding the coattails of an established hero's success, I think that'd be a lot more meaningful.
Off the top of my head, Static Shock, Blade, Vixen, Black Panther, Black Lightning, Luke Cage, White Tiger

You can argue that's too few (probably is), but however one feels about the issue of representation, I don't think one can argue that such heroes can't be successful.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Well first, new heroes can absolutely succeed, whether they be spin-offs of pre-existing heroes (e.g. Miles Morales), or completely new ones (e.g. Kamala Khan). I don't think either of these characters are going to enter the public's general zeitgeist, but for those with even passing knowledge of the genre (which includes myself - superhero comics aren't really my thing), I'd say that most people have heard of them.
Both of which were considered "pandering woke trash" when they were first introduced. This is, likewise, a spin off character.
 
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Gergar12

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Superman is such a bland character, and this doesn't change that. His powers are bland, his weakness is a rock.
 
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CriticalGaming

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Superman is such a bland character, and this doesn't change that. His powers are bland, his weakness is a rock.
This is true. I can't fathom how many times I've said to comic book friends that DC characters are terrible pretty much all around. Either overpowered and dumb, or bland and pointless. One need to only look at The Suicide Squad which actively has two different characters that are basically the same as each other, and even they are the exact same thing as Deadshot from the first fucking movie.

DC's best stuff is a couple of Batman Villains and that's it.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
This is true. I can't fathom how many times I've said to comic book friends that DC characters are terrible pretty much all around. Either overpowered and dumb, or bland and pointless. One need to only look at The Suicide Squad which actively has two different characters that are basically the same as each other, and even they are the exact same thing as Deadshot from the first fucking movie.

DC's best stuff is a couple of Batman Villains and that's it.
No, DC's best stuff is their animated series/movies. Those tend to be really really good.
 
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