Supersoldiers

Artheval_Pe

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Jul 7, 2008
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As for increasing the difficulty, using super-soldiers is just a cheap way of doing it that only reveals the laziness of the developpers.

You can seemlessly increase the difficulty using the same type of ennemies, only with smart level design, trickier ennemy placement and more ennemies, etc...

Call of Duty 4 is the perfect exemple of "how to increase the difficulty when using the same kind of soldiers" (I'm talking about the parts WITHOUT infinite respawn)
 

Booze Zombie

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Dec 8, 2007
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If the soldiers are slavishly loyal and willingly allow you to upgrade them, I can't really see the problem, other than the fact that they're still people and all this does is give you an edge in infantry combat.

Unless of course, you make the soldiers strong enough that they can throw cars at helicopters and chuck missles at tanks, etc.
 

Voltano

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Dec 11, 2008
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The "anything goes Olympics" does sound like something "Bioshock" did before it went bonkers.

From my recollection though, "Bioshock" doesn't have a good explanation about how the "splicers" went crazy. Oh I remember that there was this experiment to induce rage into someone, but how did that get mixed up with all the remaining survivors of Rapture City? Even then, it didn't seem to effect all of the survivors, "Sander Cohen" being one example.

What about technology that augments the soldier's performance, but generally leaves their genetic make-up/psychological stability the same? "Shadowrun's" 'cyberware' or the cybernetic implants from the "Deus Ex" series is another idea. Actually, having a cyberpunk theme with something that messes with the psychological stability of people would be a pretty cool game. Imagine if some virus broke out that hacked into people's computer minds, turning them into the common crazies which have to be put down with a lead pipe in almost every game.
 

Naheal

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Sep 6, 2009
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Super soldiers are indeed overdone, but they're overdone for a very good reason: it's a theme that works. Yahtzee poses that super soldiers would often turn on their creators, which makes an excellent plot theme, and are generally stronger/faster/tougher then the average human, thus ramping up the difficulty.

*applause*
 

MDSnowman

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The only thing that really stood out for me in Wolfenstein was, ironically, the Nazi super soldiers. I feel like most games like this trot out at most three kinds of upper end baddies at only trot them out in special circumstances. Wolfenstein had Scribes, Elite Dominatrix looking dames, Heavy armored dudes with lasers, heavy armored dudes with flamethrowers, flying Nazis to bomb you back to the stone age, flaming skeleton undead nazis, and invisible cackling nazis that will slice you to ribbons in seconds. The thing is these suckers were everywhere by the end of the game.

Beyond that, yes, the game was pretty lack luster for me.
 

James Cassidy

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Dec 4, 2008
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Voltano said:
From my recollection though, "Bioshock" doesn't have a good explanation about how the "splicers" went crazy. Oh I remember that there was this experiment to induce rage into someone, but how did that get mixed up with all the remaining survivors of Rapture City? Even then, it didn't seem to effect all of the survivors, "Sander Cohen" being one example.
Actually, it was explained. The enrage was them testing a new plasmid which you can pick up during the game.

The splicers, explained by Tenenbaum, is that the splicing process is similar to that of people doing cocaine. Their bodies become so dependent on it that they want their "Adam" fix. So they do anything for it, but not everyone became that way. Some just became mild splicers and only when they needed to like for surgery or medical reasons and then there are some who didn't splice at all...according to BioShock 2 where we will meet people who are normal.
 

bjj hero

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Feb 4, 2009
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We dont need super soldiers in near future fantasy when you can simply build Big fuck off Robots.

No ethical dilemma as its no different than furniture with guns and chainsaws on. You can destroy them guilt free and the decision to make them would get past the religeous nuts.

Problem solved, we will never see super soldiers again.
 

CD-R

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Mar 1, 2009
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They already made a game similar to the anything goes olympics. Mutant League football and hockey. Although granted they were mutated due to radiation or toxic waste.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutant_League_Football

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutant_League_Hockey
 

The Noble Shade

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Dec 24, 2008
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As you said the super-soldier aspect is very flawed, with the "what are you going to do when the war is over?" thing, but that's probably why they're always killed.
 

Cptn_Squishy

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Mar 4, 2009
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While the supersoldier concept has certainly been done to death and is a poor idea for any sensible general to actually try to implement, i have to comment that it does sound exactly like something the Joker would do.
 

TheEnglishman

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Jun 13, 2009
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I don't get this whole spoilers thing?

It's a video game, not a book or movie where it has a proper and key story line. The story in a video game isn't important, it's just a glorified add on to attach to the real reason people play video games, the actual game play!
 

Quillion247

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Sep 18, 2009
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Yahtzee Croshaw said:
...how are you going to make them do your bidding, Mr. Small Fragile Human General?
The same way Mr. The-Wrong-Side-Of-Fifty With a Side-arm if He's Lucky makes a bunch of twenty-somethings with assault rifles do his?

Just an observation.
 

theultimateend

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I think the Joker knew from moment 1 that Batman would stop him. My guess was that he was creating them to gauge Batman's limitations and fuck with him as much as possible.

But that is just a guess.

Either way I was thinking the same thing "It's ***** enough to get Bane doing your bidding...now you have a bunch of psychopaths with lobotomies getting Titan Injections?"
 

Treblaine

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Jul 25, 2008
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I saw a seminar by the Monterey Institute that studied the strategic, tactical and military effectiveness of nuclear weapons in a global historical context (before you say "nuclear bombs didn't exist before 1945" well cities like Carthage were still destroyed to the same extent as nuclear bombs but by a large army).

Nuclear bombs are inflexible and mostly useless weapons, they never won any wars as it should be noted even after the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, analysis of the minutes of the meeting where the Japanese high command where they finally decided on surrender it showed nuclear bombs was not their concern but the direct threat of invasion by the Americans but more importantly the Russians too that had just joined the war.

Nuclear weapons are useless against conventional armed forces or really any infantry based military. Nukes had only really been good at destroying cities and ports, in military terms that means attacking the infrastructure the families and support personnel of front line troops.

But super soldiers, or some scientific development that could quickly, efficiently and effectively create massive armies would be a far greater advantage than a nuclear weapon. Unlike a nuclear bomb, they won't just destroy a country, they can occupy it.

Current armies are constantly limited by how there are a finite number of men of fighting age, biologically it takes a long time to replace them and of even greater importance is the difficulty in TRAINING all of them to a high enough level.

If the process of making soldiers could be automated, it would be relatively easy to accelerate it. So even a relatively small country could quickly make a highly trained army of hundreds of thousands if not millions.

The Emperor of Star Wars could not have taken over the galaxy with super weapons like nuclear bombs or even the Death Star. The greatest asset he ever had and the only way he could have siezed power was with a massive clone army.

Yahtzee, you don't need a whip to enforce discipline in clone soldiers. You *are* "playing God" here so to speak so it would be possible through genetics or conditioning to have your clone soldier quite simply have unquestioning love and devotion to their leader, enough love to consciously give their life for him. No need for a whip, just ask them and like good little drones they will fight to the death and still be happy.

I suspect within out lifetime (assuming there are mostly young people on this forum) the next great "Weapon of Mass Destruction" will not be merely a bigger bomb or more toxic gas but a method of mass producing soldiers, the BEST soldiers, mass produced like AK47s and so much that any country could make them and yes, store them in a box (in stasis = low cost) to unleash at any moment.

Carthage was raised the the ground, an ancient city completely destroyed by an army following orders. Historically, man himself has always been the greatest weapon of mass destruction.

Nuclear Bombs destroy, but only armies can win wars, only armies can conquer. And nukes can't even prevent that.
 

michael_ab

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Jun 22, 2009
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at least batman had a better excuse than most games, in most games someone just thinks "i want supersoldiers" so they develop super soldiers

in batman joker thinks "i want 200 Banes to control" and refines the compound that is already running through bane, and i think bane was made in the 1990s so you cant say he was made specifically for this game.
 

Kazokuhouou

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Sep 18, 2009
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You know, I'd probably watch the Anything Goes Olympics. And since I'd never be able to afford a ticket, I'd be up at fuck-all in the morning watching with schaudenfreudic glee as the rugby team went to town on everyone.
 

008Zulu_v1legacy

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Sep 6, 2009
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Yhatzee says there are no uses for Supersoldiers outside of war, I disagree. You can always start your professional wrestling league or some sort of ultimate fighting competition.
 

The Youth Counselor

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Sep 20, 2008
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In today's war where our greatest enemies lays within our borders, Star Wars, nukes and MOABs aren't the weapon we need. The solution is a person and not a bomb, energy wave, or gun.

And like any technology and weapon, innovations through the years make them more advanced.

But if there's anything that's really overused besides super soldiers it would be clones. Which is ironic being that most game protagonists are just clones of character.

"Wow! This is his best yet!!! Fuck me great review my god sir :D"
- Foggy_Fishburne, from the Wolfenstein comments

"That was painfully dull, are you starting to lose it..?"
- sramota, from two posts later
Whoa! Yahtzee actually reads his comments!
 

drakenabarion

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Sep 11, 2009
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Hmmm, I see why people can dislike Supersoldiers, but its obvious that in some games, the system is built before the plot.

e.g. "I want a game where giants made out of metal are stamping on people and have one obvious weakspot on their backs" (or something like that).

Then when it comes to writing plot:
"We have big soldiers, lets string together a flimsy pretext for their explanation. Whats easier than a mad scientist.
It worked for Mary Shelly, even though the idea of Frankenstein was not to create an army, and he was far too emotional to ever actually be a blood thirsty monster.
Science worked for Fritz Lang when he directed Metropolis. Sure the robot wasnt the size of a small house, or didn't directly try to kill anyone, but its a second justification.
We these two reasons, how can we NOT use this as a pretext!!!"

Okay so maybe its not that's not how a game is made, but, lets be honest, there are some lacking in the plot side of things. Especially if online multi-play is the biggest selling point. There would be no need for plot, but new players have to practice somehow. Anyway, it seems that newer games try harder to make more convincing plot.

As for the armies of giant mutations during peace times. If a scientist was going to think further than doomsday or genocide, I am certain they you have made the machines mindless, and control them like they would a strategy game. Adding intelligence adds a whole layer of complexity.