Supporters of trump storm congress.

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IceForce

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So, Trump's going to jail right? Surely he can't go whipping people up into a frenzy and telling them to march on Capital Hill without some sort of repercussions. I mean, I was listening to the news as I went to sleep last night and I heard his words before all this shit kicked off and I actually sat up in bed in disbelief at what I was hearing. Surely he can't get away with that. I'm sure he will, but he shouldn't be allowed to.
He has some of the best (and/or most corrupt, depending on your point of view) lawyers money can buy. I'd be very surprised if he ever sees the inside of a jail cell.
 

tstorm823

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I saw a tweet blaming it on liberals and leftists pushing things like #notmypresident for driving conservatives to this. The old version of this site had people say that the cause of the Charlottesville nazi marches was the left calling people nazis. They claim to be the party of personal responsibility but also everything wrong in their life is because of immigrants, gay marriage and being expected to use people's preferred pronouns. They're a bunch of hateful dipshits and they should not be engaged with like their actually their for a good faith debate. Fuck fascists, don't engage.
That sounds like me. I spent a bit of time trying to make people understand that demonizing your opponents also normalizes demons. You can't accuse Republicans of being Nazis all the time without actual Nazi sympathizers being empowered by it. Nazis trying to "Unite the Right" wouldn't have ever happened if mainstream rhetoric wasn't claiming all of the right-wing was actually Nazis.

Which, for the 3rd time in two days, I have to ask, why can't you people distinguish between more than two groups at a time?
 
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BrawlMan

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Though I'm not laying the blame entirely on socmed. A more important aspect is clearly one no american is willing to admit: education. The US "education system" is clearly fatally broken to the point where it's actively harming the world.
True, but I do blame Twitter. Mainly those in charge for letting Trump's racists and hate speech stay on for so long, because they were concerned either about their fucking money tree or afraid of incurring his wrath. Funny how when you're high on the totem pole, certain people don't wanna take responsibility until it blows up in their face.

That's also another driving factor: fear. Unnecessary fear that is letting people dictate their action to please a full blown narcissist that cares for no one, but himself. There are still some Republicans in the Senate that are afraid to speak out against Trump or are afraid of his terrorist supporters. Grow a spine like the rest of the Senate, you cowards. Stand up and fight. Trump and his supporters make it clear that they don't mean a damn thing to you and are nothing more than idiotic and cowardly thugs.
 
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Cheetodust

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People weren't claiming all right wing people were nazis. That never happened. The republicans were accused of being fascist and fascist sympathisers because they never actually did anything to distance themselves from the fascists that voted for them. Then they doubled down by waving torches and chanting Jews will not replace us because they're fucking bigots and it didn't take much to bring that to the surface. Fuck fascists, fuck their sympathisers. The fascist fucks here can play their semantic games, blow their dog whistles and couch their hatred in "the socratic method" all they want but nobody should act like there's a conversation worth having with them.
 

tstorm823

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People weren't claiming all right wing people were nazis. That never happened. The republicans were accused of being fascist and fascist sympathisers because they never actually did anything to distance themselves from the fascists that voted for them. Then they doubled down by waving torches and chanting Jews will not replace us because they're fucking bigots and it didn't take much to bring that to the surface. Fuck fascists, fuck their sympathisers. The fascist fucks here can play their semantic games, blow their dog whistles and couch their hatred in "the socratic method" all they want but nobody should act like there's a conversation worth having with them.
You don't have to engage with anyone you don't want to, and I respect the decision not to, even if it's with me. I just genuinely think you misunderstand how rhetoric and narratives work. Someone being on "the right side" with you doesn't mean they're encouraging the right things, nor does being on "the wrong side" encourage violence. The literal Nazis gained their power by picking fights with communists, and now we have people roleplaying as both those groups in the street. Left wing extremists are more responsible for right wing extremists (and vice versa) than boring center Republicans are. Extremism begets extremism, and you can do some good advocating for people to calm down.
 
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Bartholen

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The literal Nazis gained their power by picking fights with communists, and now we have people roleplaying as both those groups in the street. Left wing extremists are more responsible for right wing extremists (and vice versa) than boring center Republicans are. Extremism begets extremism, and you can do some good advocating for people to calm down.
BULL. SHIT.

First it was the KKK. Then it was "states' rights" and segregation. Then it was fundamentalist christians. Then it was the Tea Party. Then the Birther movement. And now it's the Proud Boys and their ilk. Republicans have been encouraging, enabling and relying on the votes of far-right demographics for decades, and the "boring center republicans" are fully culpable for being complicit in this horseshit. I guess the civil rights movement and those damn uppity gays protesting Reagan in the 80s were "left wing extremists" creating right wing extremists to you. It wasn't the decades of fundamentalist religion, homophobia, racism, ultranationalist patriotism, gutting education and the welfare state, "south's gonna rise again", "don't tread on me", NRA propaganda, labor unions getting crushed leading to neoliberal economic policies etc. but the gawd demn fake noos CNN!

Nobody even knew who the fuck Bernie Sanders was before 2015, and he's basically the only major american politician to have ran for president who could be characterized as actually left wing in at least my lifetime. People widely and openly identifying as communist or socialist in the US is like 5 years old at most. Meanwhile the right wing has decades worth of radio hosts, politicians and different movements to their name. Was Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh created by left wing extremism too?

Seriously, how braindead must one be to unironically try to push this take?
 
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Agema

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That sounds like me. I spent a bit of time trying to make people understand that demonizing your opponents also normalizes demons. You can't accuse Republicans of being Nazis all the time without actual Nazi sympathizers being empowered by it. Nazis trying to "Unite the Right" wouldn't have ever happened if mainstream rhetoric wasn't claiming all of the right-wing was actually Nazis.
I disagree with that.

There is a certain point where people decide they may as well live up (or down) to other people's expectations and treatment of them, okay. On the other hand, these people and their sentiments have always existed. I would suggest that they've got more air to make themselves known and recruit via the internet, and radicalised through echo chambers, and - bluntly - they have been increasingly given a voice by the mainstream Republican Party. Not so much these specific goons themselves, but anyone who has paid attention over the last 20 years can see this gradual slide - the Tea Party perhaps being the most significant marker.

It's also difficult to make a case that the "mainstream rhetoric" called the right-wing Nazis without taking into account the reverse that "mainstream rhetoric" was calling the left Communists. I don't believe a "You started it" competition gets us anywhere useful or would even be true. It's much more a mutual division - they are two sides of the same coin. Although the left has at least not got to the point of attempting to seriously derail an election result and storming parliament over it.

I find it personally hard to imagine that people who were convinced that the Muslim Kenyan commie would destroy the USA in 2008 could emerge to a mostly unchanged, Christian, capitalist USA of 2016, and then march into the 2020 election convinced Biden would turn the USA into a hard socialist hellhole. And yet they do. I don't think rhetoric amongst the left can really explain that.
 
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BrawlMan

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BULL. SHIT.

First it was the KKK. Then it was "states' rights" and segregation. Then it was fundamentalist christians. Then it was the Tea Party. Then the Birther movement. And now it's the Proud Boys and their ilk. Republicans have been encouraging, enabling and relying on the votes of far-right demographics for decades, and the "boring center republicans" are fully culpable for being complicit in this horseshit. I guess the civil rights movement and those damn uppity gays protesting Reagan in the 80s were "left wing extremists" creating right wing extremists to you. It wasn't the decades of fundamentalist religion, homophobia, racism, ultranationalist patriotism, gutting education and the welfare state, "south's gonna rise again", "don't tread on me", NRA propaganda, labor unions getting crushed leading to neoliberal economic policies etc. but the gawd demn fake noos CNN!

Nobody even knew who the fuck Bernie Sanders was before 2015, and he's basically the only major american politician to have ran for president who could be characterized as actually left wing in at least my lifetime. People widely and openly identifying as communist or socialist in the US is like 5 years old at most. Meanwhile the right wing has decades worth of radio hosts, politicians and different movements to their name. Was Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh created by left wing extremism too?

Seriously, how braindead must one be to unironically try to push this take?
Don't forget that tstorm823 & Houseman love drinking their own brand of kool aid and smell of their own farts. They love downplaying heinous actions, shifting the blame, and false equivalenceies.
 

Hades

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One thing that keeps the UK from ending up there is the election fairness rulings imposed on broadcasters such that they're not allowed to spin stuff anymore. They have to report on events that happen without showing preference. There's serious fines for those who are seen to report false information as such.
Apparently about half the people reporting on Labour have missed that memo.
 
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Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)

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This entire situation has been surreal and maddening, even news people are snapping at this with rage.


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interesting article about the perspective of the outside world on this riot. some highlights

Britain's the Times
Democrats and Republicans alike pulled on gas masks and sheltered under desks and staff hid in offices.
Germany's Die Welt
"Day of shame for American democracy"
Italy's La Repubblica
"America -- all of America -- watched on in horror as the equivalent of The March on Rome unfolded in Washington on live television -- the invasion of the Capitol, the attack on democracy's sacredness itself"
Philippines's Le Figaro
"Donald Trump could have come out on top -- as a strong "president of the people" with a contested, but not negligable, record. Instead of that, his narcissism got the better of his dignity; he has manhandled institutions, trampled on democracy, divided his camp and thrown his presidency in a ditch."
Brazilian's O Globo
"The United States has fallen to the level of Latin-American countries"
O Estado de S. Paulo Also Brazil
"The target was the Capitol, not the Twin Towers, but this was also terrorism,"
...
"Domestic terrorism, internal, against the Capitol, the flames fanned by President Donald Trump himself."
Egypt's Al-Ahram
"the sacrifice of American democracy, the death of its liberty, and the plummeting of the values it has ceaselessly tried to export around the world and used as a reason to interfere in other countries' affairs".
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In more positive news I grew a little bit more respect for the Senate, many of the Republicans were against not certifying the votes except for a few pieces of garbage. They even made some fantastic speeches. the house on the other hand wow there's a lot of nut jobs? wow, there is a lot of crazy Republicans, more than 2/3 of them were against certification of the votes. in any case, I hope the American people remember those who betrayed us to the orange blob
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
One thing that keeps the UK from ending up there is the election fairness rulings imposed on broadcasters such that they're not allowed to spin stuff anymore. They have to report on events that happen without showing preference. There's serious fines for those who are seen to report false information as such.
We used to have that, it was called the fairness doctrine and was removed in the 80s by Reagan since conservatives thought it was stifling their free speech, ironic that they want it back now that they think social media is stifling their free speech. Also, you guys aren't as protected from false information as you seem to think, look at brexit.
 

SupahEwok

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I am disgusted by the occupation of Congress over bullshit, but I'm actually glad that the police let them in to run rampant. Its become clear that the only way the police issue is going to be dealt with is some kind of escalating accelerationism. I really hope some QAnon supporters running loose with Senators' laptops is going to cause enough of an "Oh shit" moment for a crackdown police reform.
 
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Silvanus

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One thing that keeps the UK from ending up there is the election fairness rulings imposed on broadcasters such that they're not allowed to spin stuff anymore. They have to report on events that happen without showing preference. There's serious fines for those who are seen to report false information as such.
That there is, though there's no regulation affecting print media, meaning the papers can (and do) make up whatever the hell they want, including outright falsehoods.
 
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happyninja42

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I am disgusted by the occupation of Congress over bullshit, but I'm actually glad that the police let them in to run rampant. Its become clear that the only way the police issue is going to be dealt with is some kind of escalating accelerations. I really hope some QAnon supporters running loose with Senators' laptops is going to cause enough of an "Oh shit" moment for a crackdown police reform.
Nah, clearly the police are involved with them, so it's not like they are going to feel like they are being threatened. They will just be emboldened to keep doing what they are doing, to help these fuckwads do whatever they want, and take selfies while they do it.
 

Mister Mumbler

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Nah, clearly the police are involved with them, so it's not like they are going to feel like they are being threatened. They will just be emboldened to keep doing what they are doing, to help these fuckwads do whatever they want, and take selfies while they do it.
Yeah, but it's not the police you need to spook for police reform (though it may help, I don't know); it's the politicians.
 
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Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Nah, clearly the police are involved with them, so it's not like they are going to feel like they are being threatened. They will just be emboldened to keep doing what they are doing, to help these fuckwads do whatever they want, and take selfies while they do it.
I don't know about that. I can understand just a few cops not wanting to get taken apart by a mob that size. Really the question you should be asking is why there were so few cops initially. It was known trump would hold a rally and those tend to bring in big numbers of crazies, you would think there would be more security in general, especially since he has been harping on the whole election process since before he was elected and is rather... unpredictable in his rhetoric.
 
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