Supporters of trump storm congress.

Status
Not open for further replies.

Silvanus

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 26, 2020
5,681
1,392
118
Country
United Kingdom
I'm not reading all this; can I just assume it's the usual suspects being the usual suspects?
A bit more extreme than expected. Four dead, two improvised bombs found (& defused).
 

Hades

Elite Member
May 7, 2020
1,105
340
88
Country
The Netherlands
So if Trump were to be removed by invoking the 25th amendment it would bar from running for office again right? Then that seems the correct course to take. Not only would it punish Trump for having a mob storm congress but it would also protect America from another Trump presidency.
 

Dwarvenhobble

Is on the Gin
May 26, 2020
2,901
275
88
Country
United Kingdom
At the point people defend storming parliamentary buildings to help overturn a democratic election, it's getting to the point where "fascist" is not so much an insult as it is a reasonably justifiable description.

But then, one might point out that a favourite tactic of fascists is to use the law to protect themselves from the opposition, right up until the point they can take power in order to ensure that the law won't protect the opposition from them.
I mean it's not the first time the US congress has been stormed by protestors even in the most recent presidential term.

Worth remembering that one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter too.

Also hasn't Trump had power for a while?

Might want to look at who uses loopholes etc a lot to get away with things in recent times.
 

Dwarvenhobble

Is on the Gin
May 26, 2020
2,901
275
88
Country
United Kingdom
So if Trump were to be removed by invoking the 25th amendment it would bar from running for office again right? Then that seems the correct course to take. Not only would it punish Trump for having a mob storm congress but it would also protect America from another Trump presidency.
Probably better than all the grand ideas people have of prosecuting Trump the moment he leaves office, not realising the precedent that will set for it to be done or attempted by others.
 

stroopwafel

Elite Member
Apr 29, 2020
2,939
317
88
If resentment runs so deep between groups of people that they don't even seem to want to co-exist anymore you have to wonder what is still holding society together and if formal institutions and legal procedure will still suffice as it's only foundation left. You can blame Trump for fanning the flames even further but he's not the cause of the divide. Neither will it go away with him out of office. It's probably also worse now, and will continue to get worse, as people get more and more brainwashed by manipulative information on social media and retreat further and further into their online echo chambers. In any society people have to give and take and meet somewhere in the middle so they can atleast peacefully co-exist. If that willingness doesn't exist anymore you end up with erosion or outright destruction of the institutions that safeguard legal protections and continuity of government which is then either 'solved' by harsh oppression or outright chaos. It's a really sad state of affairs that the divide in the U.S. has now reached such a low point that it entered the murky territory that precipitated civil wars, failed states and end of democracy.
 

Fieldy409

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 18, 2020
265
84
33
Country
Australia
If resentment runs so deep between groups of people that they don't even seem to want to co-exist anymore you have to wonder what is still holding society together and if formal institutions and legal procedure will still suffice as it's only foundation left. You can blame Trump for fanning the flames even further but he's not the cause of the divide. Neither will it go away with him out of office. It's probably also worse now, and will continue to get worse, as people get more and more brainwashed by manipulative information on social media and retreat further and further into their online echo chambers. In any society people have to give and take and meet somewhere in the middle so they can atleast peacefully co-exist. If that willingness doesn't exist anymore you end up with erosion or outright destruction of the institutions that safeguard legal protections and continuity of government which is then either 'solved' by harsh oppression or outright chaos. It's a really sad state of affairs that the divide in the U.S. has now reached such a low point that it entered the murky territory that precipitated civil wars, failed states and end of democracy.
People like to blame social media for the USA's deeply divided bipartisanship and at first it makes sense but then I think to myself: well the whole world has social media. People aren't all suffering from bipartisanship issues to the extent of the USA everywhere in the world.
 

Dwarvenhobble

Is on the Gin
May 26, 2020
2,901
275
88
Country
United Kingdom
If resentment runs so deep between groups of people that they don't even seem to want to co-exist anymore you have to wonder what is still holding society together and if formal institutions and legal procedure will still suffice as it's only foundation left. You can blame Trump for fanning the flames even further but he's not the cause of the divide. Neither will it go away with him out of office. It's probably also worse now, and will continue to get worse, as people get more and more brainwashed by manipulative information on social media and retreat further and further into their online echo chambers. In any society people have to give and take and meet somewhere in the middle so they can atleast peacefully co-exist. If that willingness doesn't exist anymore you end up with erosion or outright destruction of the institutions that safeguard legal protections and continuity of government which is then either 'solved' by harsh oppression or outright chaos. It's a really sad state of affairs that the divide in the U.S. has now reached such a low point that it entered the murky territory that precipitated civil wars, failed states and end of democracy.

I keep pushing people to read this


The answer is they don't want to because they think just a little more and they can take it all then work to crush the opposition and cripple them and then control it all. It's not even about people anymore or ideals it's about partisanship.

Biden made a few steps to trying to heal the divide but he's now gone somewhat silent it seems so it looks more like a token gesture to appease not a sincere one to try and actually heal the divide.

One thing that keeps the UK from ending up there is the election fairness rulings imposed on broadcasters such that they're not allowed to spin stuff anymore. They have to report on events that happen without showing preference. There's serious fines for those who are seen to report false information as such.
 

Dwarvenhobble

Is on the Gin
May 26, 2020
2,901
275
88
Country
United Kingdom
People like to blame social media for the USA's deeply divided bipartisanship and at first it makes sense but then I think to myself: well the whole world has social media. People aren't all suffering from bipartisanship issues to the extent of the USA everywhere in the world.
I dunno Red Rose twitter in the UK have been getting pretty bad with wishing for Boris Johnson's death. It's not quite as bad but it's certainly made some far more extreme. Hell the whole "Culture war" BS has spilled out inter international affairs in the arts seemingly too.
 

stroopwafel

Elite Member
Apr 29, 2020
2,939
317
88
People like to blame social media for the USA's deeply divided bipartisanship and at first it makes sense but then I think to myself: well the whole world has social media. People aren't all suffering from bipartisanship issues to the extent of the USA everywhere in the world.
In most open and free countries it's true that polarization isn't as extreme as in the U.S. but it is definitely significantly worse than it was. I can just look at my own country.
 

PsychedelicDiamond

Wild at Heart and weird on top
Legacy
Apr 4, 2020
1,547
199
68
These the same Anti-Fascists who believe anyone who disagrees with them should be beaten unconscious and them trampled under the Black Boot of progress?
Or the same Civil Rights activists who wanted the right to take whatever high end merchandise they wanted?
What are you on about? Cases of collateral damage in the protests against police violence last year? Yes, some of that collateral damage caused harm to innocent people, but it's not like police violence in America or ethnically targetted police violence in America just suddenly became an issue out of nowhere in 2020 that just needs some more time to be sorted out. It has been a problem for decades, likewise there have been calls to reform it for decades. Accordingly, the nation had decades of time to address these issues and enact these reforms, before the frustration over these issues which, may I remind you, is the murder and abuse of innocent citizens by the very institution allegedly meant to ensure their safety, would escalate. But that didn't happen, therefore it escalated. You can't beat your dog for years on end and then act like the victim when you get bitten.


Sounds more like you just want some revenge than anything else.
It's not about revenge, it's about prevention. I don't want to live under a dictatorship that sees me as an accesory in a Jewish conspiracy, that kidnaps my neighbours because it views them as vermin to be exterminated or that sentences my friends to slave labour for deviating too much from some arbitrary standard of normalcy or decency. I've become aware of society threatening to head in that direction in the middle of the last decade, when I was in my early 20s. The subversion of western politics and western media by the ideological succesors of 20th century hitlerism, promoting, with a thin layer of plausible deniability, an ideology of ethnic and cultural supremacy, leader cult, imperialism, religious and ideological fanaticism and a frightening willingness to commit violence to subjugate liberal democracy under that ideology. In 2015 almost not a day went by without reports of a terrorist attack on refugee shelters here in Germany while the media willfully played along with the victim blaming narrative of neofascist ideologues that either tried to imply, or outright stated, that they consider the refugess to be the real invasive force that threatens our country. At some point, I lost my trust that all of that would just sort itself out if we wait it out.





See above again.
I can try to dissect that funny little cartoon, pretending it's a worthwhile use of my time, if that makes you happy. One of its core messages seems to be that the views of the generation fighting in World War 2 would seem unrelatable to many antifascists in the 21st century, considering that generation wasn't around to experience over half a century of scientific and social progress regarding civic equality, a clearer understanding of gender identity, a greater accepance for homosexuality and so on and so forth. That is probably not wrong. It's not really saying anything either. People in the 2020s have different views than people in the 1940s, if anything that makes it even more laughable that the enemy they're fighting has hardly changed and if anything, only doubled down on the delusional ideology it had followed when it was first crushed in the 1940s. There is the gotcha about equating antifascist activism with fascist activism on the account of using authoritarian measures, even if one is doing it out of unprovoked aggression and an intention to assume power over a society it considers an easy target, while the other one is taking these measures in self defense to fend off that aggression, correctly recognizing it as an existential threat.

On that note, of course the modern antifascist strawmen are depicted as being dweeby and effeminate, one even has a stereotypical gay lisp, which just happens to not only be a recurring feature of fascist propaganda, but also a mildy amusing indication about the weird insecure obsession with masculinity and the performance thereof that fascists have. A consistent feature of their rhetoric and their preferred insults towards people with opposing views is that they tend to attack their masculinity. ******, cuckold, tranny, that ridiculous "soyboy" shit they had going for a while. "We are tough and manly, they are all a bunch of girly sissies". Throwing civilized society under a bus because their daddy didn't love them.
 
Last edited:

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
6,056
3,155
118
I mean it's not the first time the US congress has been stormed by protestors even in the most recent presidential term.
Are you not embarrassed about equating a handful of protestors with an armed mob of hundreds forcing their way in and looting?

Worth remembering that one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter too.
Yes, those goddamn people voting against Trump and ruining his freedom to be president as and when he wants.

Might want to look at who uses loopholes etc a lot to get away with things in recent times.
I've read enough of your posts to strongly suspect I look at more in the average week than you do in the average year.
 

Trunkage

Nascent Orca
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
5,633
1,103
118
Brisbane
Gender
Cyborg
Also no answer to what I actually asked I see.



Yeh funny how it's ignored how Kyle was attacked first, is on recorded footage calling for ambulances and even tried to turn himself in to police just after the incident then turned himself actually in when he got back to his home state.

So to be clear here.

Person who is a Trump supporter disobeys police orders = fine to be shot.
Person who is a democrat supporter who tries to punch a person in the face or tries to beat a person unconscious with a skateboard or tries to pull their gun to shoot some-one is not ok to be shot?
You are going to have to point out where I thought she deserved to be shot. Because I never said that. I think its a fucking tragedy

You, on the other hand, defended Kyle and didnt care for the victims

Please come back when you stop with your whataboutism. You criticising innocent people for the exact behaviour you showed. If you stopped defending stupid stuff, you would be in this position.
 

stroopwafel

Elite Member
Apr 29, 2020
2,939
317
88
I keep pushing people to read this


The answer is they don't want to because they think just a little more and they can take it all then work to crush the opposition and cripple them and then control it all. It's not even about people anymore or ideals it's about partisanship.

Biden made a few steps to trying to heal the divide but he's now gone somewhat silent it seems so it looks more like a token gesture to appease not a sincere one to try and actually heal the divide.

One thing that keeps the UK from ending up there is the election fairness rulings imposed on broadcasters such that they're not allowed to spin stuff anymore. They have to report on events that happen without showing preference. There's serious fines for those who are seen to report false information as such.
For sure, but if the people's best interest are represented by corrupt career politicians, religious zealots and big business what can you expect.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan

Trunkage

Nascent Orca
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
5,633
1,103
118
Brisbane
Gender
Cyborg
I'm not reading all this; can I just assume it's the usual suspects being the usual suspects?

12-hour Twitter ban though. Oooooh, that's gonna show him.
Well, now he's saying he will do a 'peaceful transition'. So maybe it worked?
 

Trunkage

Nascent Orca
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
5,633
1,103
118
Brisbane
Gender
Cyborg
People like to blame social media for the USA's deeply divided bipartisanship and at first it makes sense but then I think to myself: well the whole world has social media. People aren't all suffering from bipartisanship issues to the extent of the USA everywhere in the world.
I dont necessarily want to let social media off the hook for its narrative driving

I also think people need to start taking responsibility for their own actions and stop blaming social media for being an asshole and, now potentially ,terrorist
 

Silvanus

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 26, 2020
5,681
1,392
118
Country
United Kingdom
Probably better than all the grand ideas people have of prosecuting Trump the moment he leaves office, not realising the precedent that will set for it to be done or attempted by others.
Trump is facing about seven lawsuits that are unrelated to his presidency-- relating to defamation and sexual assault, fraud, and breach of contract among others.

What about the abysmal precedent that would be set by allowing somebody to escape prosecution for their own personal crimes, simply because they've been President?
 

Bartholen

At age 6 I was born without a face
Legacy
Jul 1, 2020
87
111
38
Country
Finland
People like to blame social media for the USA's deeply divided bipartisanship and at first it makes sense but then I think to myself: well the whole world has social media. People aren't all suffering from bipartisanship issues to the extent of the USA everywhere in the world.
Lest we forget, Facebook('s unwillingness to moderate content) played a central role in an actual genocide. So yes, social media indeed does drive division and cause harm, and nowhere has this been more apparent than in the recent election. 2012 was a preview, 2016 was the full demonstration, 2020 was a full on fucking plague of misinformation, conspiracy theories and bullshit that went completely unchecked because "muh free speech" and lack of regulation.

Though I'm not laying the blame entirely on socmed. A more important aspect is clearly one no american is willing to admit: education. The US "education system" is clearly fatally broken to the point where it's actively harming the world.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan

Dalisclock

Making lemons combustible again
Legacy
Apr 18, 2020
6,775
1,413
118
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Well, now he's saying he will do a 'peaceful transition'. So maybe it worked?
Until he starts feeling insecure again, so check back in about 20 minutes and he'll be throwing yet another tantrum.

Maybe Pence will finally stuff a bottle in his mouth this time to shut him up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan

Cheetodust

Elite Member
Jun 2, 2020
427
544
98
Country
Ireland
I dont necessarily want to let social media off the hook for its narrative driving

I also think people need to start taking responsibility for their own actions and stop blaming social media for being an asshole and, now potentially ,terrorist
I saw a tweet blaming it on liberals and leftists pushing things like #notmypresident for driving conservatives to this. The old version of this site had people say that the cause of the Charlottesville nazi marches was the left calling people nazis. They claim to be the party of personal responsibility but also everything wrong in their life is because of immigrants, gay marriage and being expected to use people's preferred pronouns. They're a bunch of hateful dipshits and they should not be engaged with like their actually their for a good faith debate. Fuck fascists, don't engage.
 

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
6,056
3,155
118
Well, now he's saying he will do a 'peaceful transition'. So maybe it worked?
Two aspects here.

Firstly, Trump inherently likes to play both sides. Say both things, and then pick whichever one is convenient when he wants to defend himslef. Partly, I think, because he doesn't really believe in anything (except himself). It's all just convenience, saying what he wants to get something out of someone.

Secondly, Trump may be aware that he has potentially seriously overstepped. Driven by frustration, fear and anger he almost certainly loved whipping up the crowd and enjoyed the consequences, but at some point it may have dawned on him that he's put himself at risk of a lot of trouble. He doesn't really do humility, but he might be considerably more compliant and co-operative.
 
  • Like
Reactions: stroopwafel
Status
Not open for further replies.