Sweden Considering Sexism Labels For Video Games
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I just love how there are people freaking out as though this means all that much. Seriously unless it is like the AO rating is to the ESRB then this sexism label doesn't amount to anymore then another set of words in the rating description that WILL be ignored. Also on the bright side of things maybe people who are offended by the sexism in games won't buy said game & as such stop complaining. The only way it would result in censorship is if people still complain about sexism & demand the games be taken off the market though I see it as just creating a buffer even though to me it is a non issue as I don't believe there is sufficient evidence that sexism in games leads to sexism IRL thus making the addition of this silly.
Well the ext time I'm told that these video game feminists "aren't coming for our games" or "arent trying to stop them from being made", I hope you are there to correct them for me.LifeCharacter said:
The difference being that if a game contains foul language or adult themes, you can't argue it. It's pretty well established.jabrwock said:
Sexism? People still try and use the argument that showing all men as hulking behemoths isn't sexist because they don't find it sexy. People are broken when it comes to sexism.
Not surprised this is getting considered in Sweden though, according to the people I talk to their the politicians are so comically left that if they drew them in a political comic you'd think it was a massive overexaggeration for comic effect.
As always, people are having far too much fun being angry to take the time to consider what it means; absolutely bugger-all.
Isn't that the thing SJW's are usually guilty of? Reading the broad generalisation, take offense to it and then complain?
EDIT: All that said, I suppose it's what the poor Yanks go through all the bloody time some idiot preacher without any real power says something particularly silly.
Isn't that the thing SJW's are usually guilty of? Reading the broad generalisation, take offense to it and then complain?
EDIT: All that said, I suppose it's what the poor Yanks go through all the bloody time some idiot preacher without any real power says something particularly silly.
(Jag är rädd för att det är hopplöst, kompis. Somliga letar bara efter något att gnälla om, så de får mer vatten på sin pratkvarn.)lionsprey said:
Digital sales say hello to these proposed regulations, they are already obsolete.
The progressive left is sounding more and more like the religious right with throwing labels around so easily. It's beyond annoying and becoming a worry at the spread of their intolerance. These people who get offended by everything intentionally won't be happy until the force everyone who even questions them to live underground in the sewers like in the movie Demolition Man.
The progressive left is sounding more and more like the religious right with throwing labels around so easily. It's beyond annoying and becoming a worry at the spread of their intolerance. These people who get offended by everything intentionally won't be happy until the force everyone who even questions them to live underground in the sewers like in the movie Demolition Man.
Right, I translated the damn thing as best I could (Not very well, but it was hardly informative) and I'm passing it around like the easter bunny. Admittadly, it's mainly to the benefit of people who have already decided what to think and won't read it, but still.
(Translated material: http://www.dataspelsbranschen.se/nyheter/2014/11/13/foerstudie-kring-normkritisk-maerkning.aspx )
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Dataspelsbranchen ("The Videogame Branch"), together with the research company Praxikon receives monetary support by Vinnova to investigate the basis for norm critique and diversity.
A number of news websites have brought to attention that Dataspelsbranschen, in association with Praxikon, will be given funding to investigate how a norm critical labeling system could look like. The project is a feasibility study that will investigate the possibilities for a norm cricial labeling system in the video game branch.
Many have expressed wanting a label, but initially there is several questions for the investigation to answer. What type of "labeling" is requested - is it a consumer label, such as KRAV (food and grocery related quality lable), a processlabeling such as ISO, or something else entirely? If the game's content is not in focus, how does the diversity initiative look like in the production of games that does not have characters, lines or narrative?
This and much else will be looked at by the prestudy, where one of the goals are creating process support that gives concrete aid to game developers with their diversity initiatives. Thus, there is not a complete lable that will be introduced, but a study that will lay the foundation to support companies in future ventures. This to help the video game branch both directly and indirectly to grow and develop.
The feasibility study begins in January 2015 and is planned to be completed in August.
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Oh, our forefathers are surely rolling in their graves with shame at this latest act of tyranny by the new feminist world order.
(Translated material: http://www.dataspelsbranschen.se/nyheter/2014/11/13/foerstudie-kring-normkritisk-maerkning.aspx )
---
Dataspelsbranchen ("The Videogame Branch"), together with the research company Praxikon receives monetary support by Vinnova to investigate the basis for norm critique and diversity.
A number of news websites have brought to attention that Dataspelsbranschen, in association with Praxikon, will be given funding to investigate how a norm critical labeling system could look like. The project is a feasibility study that will investigate the possibilities for a norm cricial labeling system in the video game branch.
Many have expressed wanting a label, but initially there is several questions for the investigation to answer. What type of "labeling" is requested - is it a consumer label, such as KRAV (food and grocery related quality lable), a processlabeling such as ISO, or something else entirely? If the game's content is not in focus, how does the diversity initiative look like in the production of games that does not have characters, lines or narrative?
This and much else will be looked at by the prestudy, where one of the goals are creating process support that gives concrete aid to game developers with their diversity initiatives. Thus, there is not a complete lable that will be introduced, but a study that will lay the foundation to support companies in future ventures. This to help the video game branch both directly and indirectly to grow and develop.
The feasibility study begins in January 2015 and is planned to be completed in August.
---
Oh, our forefathers are surely rolling in their graves with shame at this latest act of tyranny by the new feminist world order.
I support this.
At least, people can read the label and avoid being potentially offended and then starting a century's worth of "discussion"[footnote]complaints[/footnote] in a month.
At most, companies will do their best to avoid the label and virtually snuff out sexism in their games.
In reality, people will purposely purchase games with the label just to "discuss"[footnote]complain about[/footnote] the sexism present in the game.
Final thoughts: The fuck do I care? I'm not sexist and I do what I can to discourage sexism when I see or hear it. On the other hand, being a straight male, I like seeing a little eye candy in games now and then. If that makes me a misogynistic pig, fine. Don't interact with me.
(I do believe sexism is a real issue, but it seems like a lot of the discussion around it leads to people simply complaining one way or the other. The most people can do is discourage it and not do it themselves. Logically debating sexism with a sexist is just going to be pointless. Sexism is ignorance at best and arrogance at worst. The arrogant and ignorant tend to be invinicible to logic. Sort of like some mentally ill.)
At least, people can read the label and avoid being potentially offended and then starting a century's worth of "discussion"[footnote]complaints[/footnote] in a month.
At most, companies will do their best to avoid the label and virtually snuff out sexism in their games.
In reality, people will purposely purchase games with the label just to "discuss"[footnote]complain about[/footnote] the sexism present in the game.
Final thoughts: The fuck do I care? I'm not sexist and I do what I can to discourage sexism when I see or hear it. On the other hand, being a straight male, I like seeing a little eye candy in games now and then. If that makes me a misogynistic pig, fine. Don't interact with me.
(I do believe sexism is a real issue, but it seems like a lot of the discussion around it leads to people simply complaining one way or the other. The most people can do is discourage it and not do it themselves. Logically debating sexism with a sexist is just going to be pointless. Sexism is ignorance at best and arrogance at worst. The arrogant and ignorant tend to be invinicible to logic. Sort of like some mentally ill.)
So.... This wasn't a very pleasant read at all.
Let's put things into perspective. An industry organization is researching the possibility for a new product labeling for games, in Sweden. This label could indicate either if the game promotes gender equality or if it's regarded as sexist by the rating board. Exactly what and to what extent these labels could be applied is not known, since it is as stated just now being researched (actually not starting until January 2015 according to their website). "Sweden Considering Sexism Labels For Video Games" is an article title, made to look interesting, and in this case quite erroneous.
Dataspelsbranschen is an industry organization, not tied to any political party or movements. It is a private for profit organization with partners including (as stated on their website): Activision Blizzard, Bergsala, Disney, Electronic Arts, Game Outlet, Koch Media, Microsoft, Namco Bandai Partners, Nordisk Film Distribution, Pan Vision, Ubisoft och Warner Bros.
Furthermore the political climate in Sweden is, as evidenced by the recent election, not suprisingly moving in a steady rightward direction with strong rising support for the major nationalistic, anti-immigration and anti-left party. Similarly to what we have seen previously in Greece, France, Norway, Denmark and other European countries. Commenting on Swedens politics through the perspective of old stereotypes still being run by many media outlets today ad verbatim today (the Escapist not excused) is misleading and naive.
In just a few pages of comments here I find a humongous lot of hate directed against my country, its government and "the apparent feminist leftist conspiracy" behind it all. I would urge many of you to stop and at least actually consider the situation a little before going all up in arms over a petty thing like this. This judgemental attitude and borderline paranoic obsession with the perceived "threath to video games/gaming culture" is juvenile and hiding behind intellectualizing arguments of "objectivity" doesn't help.
If you need to find a rational reason for why this is even happening in the first place (i.e. other than "the war" against the male sex -.-) you have to look no further than the comments on this article. With an ounce of self-reflection and general knowledge that should not be hard to see.
Let's put things into perspective. An industry organization is researching the possibility for a new product labeling for games, in Sweden. This label could indicate either if the game promotes gender equality or if it's regarded as sexist by the rating board. Exactly what and to what extent these labels could be applied is not known, since it is as stated just now being researched (actually not starting until January 2015 according to their website). "Sweden Considering Sexism Labels For Video Games" is an article title, made to look interesting, and in this case quite erroneous.
Dataspelsbranschen is an industry organization, not tied to any political party or movements. It is a private for profit organization with partners including (as stated on their website): Activision Blizzard, Bergsala, Disney, Electronic Arts, Game Outlet, Koch Media, Microsoft, Namco Bandai Partners, Nordisk Film Distribution, Pan Vision, Ubisoft och Warner Bros.
Furthermore the political climate in Sweden is, as evidenced by the recent election, not suprisingly moving in a steady rightward direction with strong rising support for the major nationalistic, anti-immigration and anti-left party. Similarly to what we have seen previously in Greece, France, Norway, Denmark and other European countries. Commenting on Swedens politics through the perspective of old stereotypes still being run by many media outlets today ad verbatim today (the Escapist not excused) is misleading and naive.
In just a few pages of comments here I find a humongous lot of hate directed against my country, its government and "the apparent feminist leftist conspiracy" behind it all. I would urge many of you to stop and at least actually consider the situation a little before going all up in arms over a petty thing like this. This judgemental attitude and borderline paranoic obsession with the perceived "threath to video games/gaming culture" is juvenile and hiding behind intellectualizing arguments of "objectivity" doesn't help.
If you need to find a rational reason for why this is even happening in the first place (i.e. other than "the war" against the male sex -.-) you have to look no further than the comments on this article. With an ounce of self-reflection and general knowledge that should not be hard to see.
tired and this was probably gone over, but why the fucking hell does sweden even use the Bechdel test? I mean freaking the most fanservice moe slice of life animes and all girl fanservice anime shows with girls with huge tits and tons of panty shots passes that stupid "test". What's the point of even using it?
I'm feeling very sceptical towards this. Like, how do you even decide if a game is sexist or not? Do they gather some people in a room and have a vote between yes/no? Because in that case, it's gonna be very hard to be objective on that front. You can look at a game and see if it meets the criteria for what's considered bloody and violent, and then you can label it with an age rating, depending on the level and detail of the violence etc. Same goes with swearing, nudity, fear, drugs, sex, all those can be objectively measured. The importance, emphasis or weight of those themes are entirely subjective, but the validation of whether they are present or not and to what extent is universal. But sexism? That's a tough one. There is of course an objective definition for what sexism is, it is (taken from the Oxford Dictionary): "prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex". Unfortunately, that line becomes very blurry when placed in the real world. Same would go if there was going to be a racism, homophobia or xenophobia tag, because those things are very open to interpretation.
What? You mean I spent all day soaking my torch in oil and polishing my pitchfork for nothing?lionsprey said:
Doesn't sound doable, it's very hard to determine if something's sexist or not. I mean, if we looked at racism the same way, take the movie Django Unchained, was that movie racist because it featured black slaves? Or maybe it was racist because every single white person was the biggest piece of shit you could ever meet (except Waltz)? Maybe, just maybe it was a work of art that just happened to depict racism without actually being racist itself. This is something that the likes of Sarkeesian completely ignores when looking at games like Gta or the recent Watch Dogs that was said to be sexist because it showed sex trade. Those games just depict a real thing, go out there and look, people sell sex in many different forms. To just shy away from the subject, and never feature bad stuff in art because it's "offensive" is probably the worst crime we could commit.
I understand that there are examples of games that are truly offensive but I dunno, I think there wouldn't be much time spent on making sure such a label really fits certain games. Does it feature prostitutes? You get a sexist label! It features a female hero who slaughters thousands of male cannon fodder? Completely fine, female empowerment and whatnot!
I understand that there are examples of games that are truly offensive but I dunno, I think there wouldn't be much time spent on making sure such a label really fits certain games. Does it feature prostitutes? You get a sexist label! It features a female hero who slaughters thousands of male cannon fodder? Completely fine, female empowerment and whatnot!
hey, good for Sweden. They're taking steps to coddle the minorities, what's next? Fines for people who use the wrong pronouns? I long for the day when a man who identifies as a rabbit can be addressed as such. Honestly, I just do not understand the point of this. First, you're putting shackles on the directors regarding storytelling. They might have a good idea, but if an independant board of reviewers labels it Sexist or Inequal you can bet your ass there's going to be a sales drop.
It's a good idea on paper. Unfortunately, it's coming and following a trend of Feminism that can only be described as Radical. I could also describe it as grossly being misused for the personal gain of a select few ladies but frankly I'm not interested in starting that whole argument up again. The idea certainly does look like one that would not only help bring attention to inequality, but also would have Developers thinking about what they do.
Unfortunately, most Developers are just going to see this as an attack on them based on what kind of games they sell and god, this could even stray into the gender of the Protagonist. Is it male? BAM. You lose points. Is the love interest female? BAM. You just contributed to heteronormativity, you Cis Pig.
Anyone else realise just how much I sound like tumblr? This is basically tumblr being given control and I guarantee you that is not a good thing. Unfortunately, I can't see into the future so all I can do is speculate. I have absolutely no clue what this is going to do for the industry, rather than reskin and revoice the characters, but hey, I'm a White Male, what the flying fuck do I know about Equality.
It's a good idea on paper. Unfortunately, it's coming and following a trend of Feminism that can only be described as Radical. I could also describe it as grossly being misused for the personal gain of a select few ladies but frankly I'm not interested in starting that whole argument up again. The idea certainly does look like one that would not only help bring attention to inequality, but also would have Developers thinking about what they do.
Unfortunately, most Developers are just going to see this as an attack on them based on what kind of games they sell and god, this could even stray into the gender of the Protagonist. Is it male? BAM. You lose points. Is the love interest female? BAM. You just contributed to heteronormativity, you Cis Pig.
Anyone else realise just how much I sound like tumblr? This is basically tumblr being given control and I guarantee you that is not a good thing. Unfortunately, I can't see into the future so all I can do is speculate. I have absolutely no clue what this is going to do for the industry, rather than reskin and revoice the characters, but hey, I'm a White Male, what the flying fuck do I know about Equality.
Somehow I don't see any game developers getting up in arms over this considering the research grant was asked for by a for profit games industry organization who just happens to be based in Sweden. An organization partnered with Ubisoft, Activision Blizzard, Namco Bandai, Electronic Arts, and a few other large publishers all with large in house development teams. This is not a government agency trying to regulate the Swedish games industry. This is an industry organization researching the possibility of coming up with a scale for gender equality so they can add another label to the already existing PEGI system.dtgenshiken7 said:
I don't really understand your argument about sales drops either, the root of capitalism is putting out a product people want to buy. Are you saying that the sales drop will penalize games with sexist elements because people who would otherwise buy it not knowing that will be better informed and not wish to consume sexist media? With the rising cost of videogames most people these days read reviews before buying, and most intelligent people read reviews written through a critical lens they care about (such as a feminist progressive one, ala. Gamasutra). I just don't see how a sales drop has any bearing on whether or not to institute a measure like this, if such a sales drop would even occur.
Essentially I don't think this is going to do anything to the (Swedish) games industry, people who don't care about this sort of thing will go on not caring (in Sweden) and the people who would read reviews with a feminist critical lenses and not buy the game will still not buy it. You may not be able to see the future, but you could at least read the article. Your lack of understanding about what the research grant is for and your assumption that this will anger developers (the same developers partnered with the organization) tell me that at most you gave this article a cursory skim before jumping in the thread to post an already deep seated opinion without regard for the actual issue at hand.
This would seem a lot less silly if they were planning to apply similar labels to books, movies, TV shows, music, etc. What's posted here seems very games focused (which is fair enough really) but I feel like it would be an all inclusive thing, at least for visual media.
And if not then... that's pretty contrived.
*I know they talked about the whole "Bechdel Test" thing but I mean specifically the labels for the levels of sexism, depiction of gender-equality. That sort of thing is just too subjective to assign a definite label to. I mean, regular rating systems (ESRB, etc) aren't exactly the most accurate things in the world
And if not then... that's pretty contrived.
*I know they talked about the whole "Bechdel Test" thing but I mean specifically the labels for the levels of sexism, depiction of gender-equality. That sort of thing is just too subjective to assign a definite label to. I mean, regular rating systems (ESRB, etc) aren't exactly the most accurate things in the world