SWTOR: Really EA? Are you seriously surprised?

[theultimateend]

Wow I didn't even know they had such a shitty setup, I guess my mate was too embarrassed to tell me the full story after I warned him about this game for so long.

Anyway that is quite the hilarious read and I fucking called this MMO failing like all others the moment they announced it, WoW still owns that market and you just can't beat them with a game almost as good.

Could you point out what WOW does better? A friend of mine said some people had complaints about swtor and I want to know what wow does to keep its subscriptions.

At this point, I find WoW to just e totally unfun to play. However, I think WoW has kept it's subscribers by being so big. "Why would I play some Star Wars game when all my friends are playing WoW?"

Also take into account that wow dwarfs any other MMO in size and their holiday events are cute and somewhat entertaining.

My biggest complaint is the game adds new content at a snails pace. It's not even gambling kinda stuff, but adding things like more storage slots or even character slots moves at a rate that I swear is because of some kind of pool.

"We've got bets on 2014 as the first new storage slots so if we keep delaying it we'll make 200 dollars from the bet!"

 

[PPB]

Wow I didn't even know they had such a shitty setup, I guess my mate was too embarrassed to tell me the full story after I warned him about this game for so long.

Anyway that is quite the hilarious read and I fucking called this MMO failing like all others the moment they announced it, WoW still owns that market and you just can't beat them with a game almost as good.

Could you point out what WOW does better? A friend of mine said some people had complaints about swtor and I want to know what wow does to keep its subscriptions.

I think it's the combination of different factors. I've played most of the "modern" (using the term loosely) MMOs and I still feel like WoW is by far the most "polished" game. I know that doesn't mean much by itself, I'm just not sure hot to explain it better. The game plays smoothly, the art design is excellent (note that art design and texture size are different things), it's easy to get into but arguably takes a while to master, there's a ton of content (in terms of world size, number of dungeons, on-the-side things like collecting and achievements) and yes there's a ton of people playing it.

Simply put, WoW is comfort food. As with all subjective things, some people won't like it. But I don't think it's much of a stretch to assume that there's a little something for everyone in that game.

 

[Nadhammer]

I am so disappointed by TOR.

As it was in development I was so excited. They promised me the world. I believed them. I pre-ordered. I paid crazy money to play this fucking game. When I finally got it, I made an Agent and started playing.

Agent was fun. For awhile. The storyline was actually really good (I've heard since that Agent has the best storyline; after trying Warrior and Inquisitor I believe it) and I didn't mind the Sniper sub-class's combat style. But then it all fell apart.

The planets feel bad. They're just not right. Nar Shaddaa is a brightly lit metropolis, not KOTOR's and the EU's filthy hive of scum and villainy. Hoth was too small. Coruscant was a joke. Corellia was the worst-laid-out mess I've ever fucking seen in an MMO.

The worst part is that the game is set up so that you progress down a narrow corridor, be it a canyon, a cave, a street, an alley or whatever. Then there are two or three groups of enemies who you cannot get past, cannot stealth by, cannot deal with in any way other than fighting them. Sounds good, but repeat this literally hundreds of times and you start to realize it: this game is so ridiculously padded out it's embarrassing.

This is one of the first games I've ever played where I felt like the developer was giving me a huge "fuck you". I am ashamed that I bought and supported this game.

 

[Dendio]

Play the game and enjoy it. It has many great moments. I can say the same of mass effect 3. The internet is being overly negative about both games. Thats my honest advice. I think most people calling these games worthless haven't even gave them a chance. "Worthless" and its synonyms are strong language that should be reserved for the likes of big rigs and saints row 2 pc edition.

 

[RN7]

Considering the numerous failures that WoW-clones have had, and considering the new openness to the F2P model, I'm surprised some desperate companies haven't tried to use Nexon's model for the way they run things.

 

[AD-Stu]

Erm... just one small point, what do you mean when you say it's not available in Australia? I know I've seen it advertised here and seen the box on game store shelves.

 

[immortalfrieza]

Could you point out what WOW does better? A friend of mine said some people had complaints about swtor and I want to know what wow does to keep its subscriptions.

TOR does EVERYTHING WoW does but better, and a few things it doesn't. Pretty much every problem that everybody says TOR has are the same problems that WoW had or even still has, but it's still the most popular MMO out there despite that. Really, the only reason WoW is so popular is because it was pretty much the first real MMO, it has an 8 year head start on TOR, that's the one and only reason it has more players, not because it ever war or currently is in any way better. TOR recently started doing server transfers, and that has greatly boosted the server populations, so don't count it out yet.

Honestly though, I like TOR the way it is, except for a few nitpicky things. It's the only MMO that has managed to keep me on for longer than a month, I've been playing since early access. I hope that the free to play transition will only be about vainty and other unimportant stuff, not massive lockouts of everything.

I think the reason people don't stick around is because they just want to play for ridiculous amounts of time every day and blow through all the content as fast as possible, like they could afford to do with WoW because of how grindy and overflowing with padding their content was, and TOR deliberately avoids putting in such crappy content (all of TOR's 20 bear asses content is minimal, in many cases completely optional, and most often automatically done during another mission). I personally play for about 3 hours or so each day and do everything available, so it took 3 months or so to get through my first character, and my second is going through not too much faster. I take my time, but others don't, so they don't stay.

The people like that are gradually getting weeded out, and those that like to savior the game like me are still around. The people that savior are the ones which will actually keep TOR afloat, the others are just a fleeting moments of cash for Bioware, not REAL subscribers.

 

[Dryk]

In response to the thread title I want to point out that they probably were surprised. All the charts their underlings showed them indicated that it would make money.

 

[kingcom]

D&D Online was, here's two dungeons, you can grind them to level five or give us money. Lots of money.

I know it was something like that for a brief period but for most of its f2p life they dropped any level cap, you can fairly easily get to high levels (though 17+ seems very difficult) with the need to grind a few levels. Hell theres only 2 quests that you can pay for below level 5.

Yeah, I'm usually pretty snippy when someone screws up details like that too. What did stick with me, when I went into the game (which was right after it went F2P) was the experience of playing through the tutorial, and then being told, "no more content for you, unless you cough up money, or grind these two dungeons." And, as far as I can recall, at the time it really was only two free dungeons.

Though, I might be wrong about the level cap, it could have been 10, with a $5 or $10 surcharge to bump it to 20, instead of 5 to 10, then another higher priced bump from 10 to 20.

I think it was level capped at some point but they got rid of that very quickly, the original f2p model for the game was terrible. They changed it from the complains and now its a very nice, perhaps one of the best f2p models out there.

 

[Zeckt]

I honestly just bought the thing because its on sale right now and can't even begin to download it because I have to upload a picture to origin and its "too busy" for that. Just for a worthless mandatory picture?! Nice first impression, you suck EA.

 

[MetallicaRulez0]

I think the reason people don't stick around is because they just want to play for ridiculous amounts of time every day and blow through all the content as fast as possible, like they could afford to do with WoW because of how grindy and overflowing with padding their content was, and TOR deliberately avoids putting in such crappy content

In other words, the people who play MMOs more than an hour a day run out of stuff to do. AKA, there's not enough content in the game. Which is exactly what most people here are saying about TOR.

I played from early access until mid-February until I finally got tired of logging on, doing Ilum dailies, then getting steamrolled by PvP premades all day. That's all there was to do in the game. Why run flashpoints when PvP gear is better? Why raid when PvP gear is just as good? The end-game was a huge mess of low quality and low quantity content.

Maybe the game has improved drastically from that state, but I'm sure as hell not giving EA another $15 to find out.

 

[zefiris]

In short; SWTOR won't fall any time soon, its only been out for 6 months, stop comparing it to a game that's been out for 8 years (16 times as long).

Finally someone with half a brain posts.

Vanilla WoW had no end game content either. WoW has been around for 8 years. All MMORPGs are the same. Wow end game content is badge collecting doing boring dailys over and over and over... Zzzzzz

Whinge whine whinge whine whinge fucking moan moan moan moan...

Gamers are getting embarrassing.[/quote]

You are indeed embarassing. Even WoW, a game most people here don't even like anymore (and which I dropped like hot coal years ago due to its misogynic, homophobic player base), had more things to do at max level.

And no, not all MMORPGs are the same. TOR is a failure that tried to copy WoW instead of actually innovating, and as such, it crashed and burned.

And I for one find that extremely hilarious, especially when its butthurt fans come out.

 

[Raioken18]

Ummm... WoW does a lot of things that Swtor doesn't. For one it makes doing 5 man dungeons and raids a lot simpler. It's easier to understand your abilities and what your professions are and do, but also...

The character designs in SWTOR are so generic, each class is one of any humanoid with exactly the same measurements, so once you put on armor you are all basically clones of each other (pretty much).

Also it didn't feel as epic, WoW is a whole world and you can fly almost everywhere around almost the entire planet. Ohe of the fun things is to fly around and just explore without having to grind enemies along the way, it is actually relaxing.

With SWTOR you were purposely limited to certain areas and the transition between areas was so extraordinarily clunky.

With SWTOR you felt like... why'd they bother giving you a space ship if you couldn't fly it around yourself. Sure the space levels are ok... but they aren't great.

Bioware... I love them I do, but they seemingly designed this as a single player game parading as a MMO. Take things like the voiceovers, there are cutscenes everywhere and if you are working in a team or even talking to other friends while playing you have to stop and tell them to shut up because otherwise you will miss important points like what to do next or what someones motivations were. WoW having these things as mainly text and very short cutscenes allowed players to continue being immersed while also communicating with others.

The lack of experience that Bioware has with MMO's is really evident if you compare the two games. So in terms of it being better... it's graphics... even those were kind of underwhelming...

Also it's a bit hard to make newer weapons look good if everyone has the same generic star wars brand light saber. Personally I am really excited for Phantasy Star Online 2 as a space MMO, though gameplay footage does look a lot like PSU :/ The mission based exploration at least makes it easier to work as a team.

 

[Akyho]

I bought in first month and played with friends. Resubbed for a second. then stopped playing after that. I have just went back to it utterly quiet. And Right now I am just going "Just got Free to play so people actually play." I played Star Trek Online F2p and its bustling.

However your story isn't purely EA's fault. It seems more like you were to eager and didnt do things carefully. Ontop of missing some info.

However it could have all been solved if it was more universally available.

 

[immortalfrieza]

I think the reason people don't stick around is because they just want to play for ridiculous amounts of time every day and blow through all the content as fast as possible, like they could afford to do with WoW because of how grindy and overflowing with padding their content was, and TOR deliberately avoids putting in such crappy content

In other words, the people who play MMOs more than an hour a day run out of stuff to do. AKA, there's not enough content in the game. Which is exactly what most people here are saying about TOR.

By "ridiculous amounts of time" I meant 12 hours or longer. It doesn't matter HOW much content a game has, if you play that long every day you're going to breeze past everything the game has to offer you, especially if you don't do everything there is to do. Even just doing each class and their class quests alone is enough for hundreds of hours, add in the doing the sidequests for each character, and TOR can keep you occupied for a VERY long time. Besides, if by "enough content" you mean filling the game up with pointless, grindy, and boring quests that are made ridiculously long just for the sake of making longer like WoW is packed to the brim with, I'd much rather have "not enough content" like TOR does.

I played from early access until mid-February until I finally got tired of logging on, doing Ilum dailies, then getting steamrolled by PvP premades all day. That's all there was to do in the game. Why run flashpoints when PvP gear is better? Why raid when PvP gear is just as good? The end-game was a huge mess of low quality and low quantity content.

Why? To have more to do, that's why! Why complain about having hardly any endgame content when you aren't even willing to do all the content that is already there? You ask why you shouldn't do the endgame content when other endgame content already gives you better equipment than the other content, but WoW's endgame has the EXACT same problem and has for years, but at Bioware at least makes it look like they'd fix it. Besides, the content that IS there is pretty good. They're also constantly adding in new flashpoints and raids practically every month. Also, about PvP, Bioware has been working tirelessly to make it so steamrolling is much less likely to happen to newer PvPers. They've been adding quite a few things to it to make it less one sided.

 

[viranimus]

Okeh Dokeh.

Lets clarify something here. On the whole thing of "go international" There is a reason not to. Localization. The biggest point OF ToR is the extensive voice acting involved in it. Imagine the staggering ordeal it would be at this point in the game to expand that to say Mandarin, Japanese, and other asia/pacifica languages. And for what? To try and fail at invading WoWs stronghold? Yeah that would be incredibly dumb.

Secondly... lets compare. Yes 10 million to 1.5 million looks like an ant looking up at a giant. But the problem with that is ... again the international divide. If you whittle away WoWs Asia/Oceanic numbers from the mix, you quickly realize that WoW is MUCH more popular in Asian cultures than Western ones. I think the divide is like 6.5 vs 3.5 or round abouts last time I looked at the breakdowns. So if your comparing anything you should be comparing ToRs 1.3 to WoWs 3.5 and realize ToR has done phenomenally well and provided EA/Bioware doesnt try to abandon it by going F2P, they CAN grow the game much like what WoW did. They have the means, it can be done much in the same way it was done with WoW.

Lastly. You have to remember the past. Look at Everquest. 13 years old, 18 expansions.. Subscription model until.... 2012. Total population? Max about 500k currently only about 200k give or take. Once the product is made its not hard to maintain a high degree of profitability to sustain an MMO. Granted ToR has a much greater hurdle to overcome in its initial price tag, but it made back about 1/3rd its production cost in the first 3 months. Profits have certainly slowed, but it CAN make back the remainder IF they dont give up and go F2P. Once it makes back the production costs it does not matter if it has 1 million subs or 10 million subs. It will be profitable enough to thrive.

However thanks to market analysts and public perception in all likelihood the misnomer that if ToR doesnt sport say 11 million subs, its a gigantic failure will end up causing EA/Bioware to give up and just let the thing deteriorate into F2P standing where it will basically generate quick cash for nothing at the expense of neutering any hope at any long term longevity.

Just remember this basic math. 1.3 million subscribers multiplied by 14.99 monthly subscription costs. Granted there are expenses involved, but thats hypothetically just shy of 20 million dollars each month its generating in subscription fees give or take. In the 6 months its been active thats over 115 million dollars generated in subscription fees.

It would be moronic for any MMO developer bringing in that much money on a monthly basis to abandon it and open up F2P that will immediately make a massive cut into that figure.

 

[immortalfrieza]

Really, the only reason WoW is so popular is because it was pretty much the first real MMO,

Everquest 2 beat it by.....two weeks.
The first Everquest beat it by about 5 years.

I guess I should have clarified and said the first BIG MMO. WoW had 3 things that both Everquests didn't, 1. An already massive fanbase to draw players from, and 2. a much better formula for making it's gameplay addicting and lasting that Everquest 1&2 did, and 3. MUCH better advertising than either Everquest, especially Everquest 1.
Even at their height, both Everquests had but a tiny fraction in comparison to the number of subscribers that WoW has now, and even in it's infancy WoW had more subscribers than Everquest 1 ever had.

I don't care much for WoW, but I have to admit that it's way of doing things works, which is why everybody's copying it, the problem with everybody else is that they're doing it worse. TOR just decided to do everything that WoW does but do it much better than they ever did, and even throw in a worthwhile story in the bargin, something WoW doesn't have.

The problem with TOR is they are VERY late to the MMO game.

That's pretty much what I already said.

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

I remember before WoW came out, having a subscription base of over 200k was considered a massive success for an MMO.
Everyone needs to stop trying to compete and be happy with less. The only thing that can topple WoW is another MMO from Blizzard. It has nothing to do with quality and everything to do with brand name.

 

[Raddra]

The insane thing is that the reason given for not including Rodians, Wookies, and Bothans was because of fears "the player wouldn't be able to identify with the character" or some such tripe. Sorry, my girlfriend just corrected me, it was because the writers were snickering at the prospect of a Wookie or Rodian in one of the romance plotlines.

That pretty much confirms my point 100%.

They took the star wars out of star wars to shoehorn in romance plotlines.

Well, they dug their own grave, they can wallow in it. The #1 thing on their mind should have been faithfully adapting star wars, then they can write plotlines around that.

Who cares if a Trandoshan or whatever felt weird in a romance plotline, romance plotlines are optional (are they? I never played but they should be) and they could always just cut those options out of odd races plotlines and add other plots to make up for it (for example, a racial bounty hunter plotline for Rodians or whatever)

Anyway thanks for the post, I knew it was something like that.

 

[Arina Love]

all i have to say for swtor is that i'm enjoying it. I'm having a blast doing OPS with my guild. and when there is no ops i lvl my alts.