Table top RPGs

[Halceon]

In your shoes, I wouldn't bother with that friend you described. Some people don't know how magnets work, some can't play RPGs for lack of imagination. But if you find it absolutely necessary, you could challenge his gamerhood and/or manhood by promising him a game he can't beat.

However, you could post an add in the school paper or whatever means you have.

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

Can't help you unfortunately, I've never had trouble finding people "interested" in playing, I've just had trouble finding people who want the same things I do out of a Table Top RPG and even when I've found that I often have trouble finding the time to game regularly.

 

[Jesus Phish]

As mentioned the Robot Chicken and Penny Arcade podcasts are a great way to show people that D&D and TTRPGs arent just the sterotype of gangly nerds sitting around a table in wizards hats eating cheetos, but rather a fun and tacticful game.

Failing being able to twist your friends arms away from shiney consoles, go check out college groups or your FLGS. Wizards run a new system for D&D called Encounters I think, which is aimed at you getting a game in once a week, once a month or whenever it suits you. You dont have to commit to a month long campaign.

I'm getting a new group of players together, my girlfriend and two friends of ours as they're all interested in trying it out. D&D 4th is perfect for introducing new players I think.

 

[Halceon]

Fans of tabletop seem to be under the false impression that their games are entirely unpredictable and driven by the players' actions, but I found this couldn't be further from the truth. If anything, most campaigns are driven by whatever in the instruction book, and, even worse, by the GM.

On more than one occasion in games I've played, GMs have stubbornly refused to allow the party to leave a room, lest we miss their cunning set-piece, or we wouldn't be allowed to carry out our preferred action because they hadn't considered it, and daren't think on their feet. Where is the freedom in that? You might as well be following the script of any linear computer game, except with more time wasted while you all scramble around for your dice.

I think this is a good topic for some quick research. Because in my experience, I've had the opposite struggle - players with a lack of imagination. The party wants to arrange a meeting with the city council, but the council is out of town for a few days. I offer them to wait or to do some odd jobs to get a bit of reputation before that. Then they spend ~ 20 minutes of what is essentially "I dunno, what do you want to do? I dunno, what do you want to do?".

BUT!
That is a distinct minority. In the same campaign my other group tried to make some quick cash and eventually sided with the force they were sent to oppose. And I have numerous tales of wonderous things, especially regarding inter-party and intra-party conflict. In one case, when playing, if our party hadn't had more moraly upstanding people, I would have gotten us to avoid a whole chapter completely. (Since then I am very careful about the phrase "Do something about it").


Anyway. What I'd like to see is some data on numbers of people who have had great/horrible experiences with their players/GMs.

 

[castlewise]

Show them the youtube videos of Robot Chicken playing D&D or let them listen to the Penny Arcade D&D podcasts on the Wizards of the Coast website. They do an awesome job of showing the game in a fun and interesting way.

This is good advice. I got into DnD after the Penny Arcade Podcasts. That being said, tabletop games don't scratch the same itch as videogames. Its not a given that someone who is into RPG games will like tabletop RPG or vice versa. This is mainly because tabletop RPG's are not games per say. For example if you, as the DM, kill the entire party you haven't "won". Either people have fun or they don't and there isn't any other metric that matters.

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

Snippity

Sounds like you've had a rough go of things with the Pen and Paper side of things...

Still, you sound like you've always been a player and never a GM and I have to say this to you thing GAME MASTERING IS HARD. Thinking on your feet is HARD and not many systems (ESPECIALLY not DnD) make it any easier for you unless you've planned everything in advance. It's taken me almost 10 years of gaming to figure out how to "Think on My Feet" and have it not be sloppy, now I'm pretty darn good at it, but it takes time, practice and experience. I've found the BEST way to think of it is as a 50/50 sort of thing,

I definately hear you in regards to the "numbers game" though, it's a frequent problem with more of the "Character Build Centric" systems like DnD, anything else produced by Wizards of the Coast, HERO System, GURPS... yeah...

 

[Ossian]

Fans of tabletop seem to be under the false impression that their games are entirely unpredictable and driven by the players' actions, but I found this couldn't be further from the truth. If anything, most campaigns are driven by whatever in the instruction book, and, even worse, by the GM.

On more than one occasion in games I've played, GMs have stubbornly refused to allow the party to leave a room, lest we miss their cunning set-piece, or we wouldn't be allowed to carry out our preferred action because they hadn't considered it, and daren't think on their feet. Where is the freedom in that? You might as well be following the script of any linear computer game, except with more time wasted while you all scramble around for your dice.

I think this is a good topic for some quick research. Because in my experience, I've had the opposite struggle - players with a lack of imagination. The party wants to arrange a meeting with the city council, but the council is out of town for a few days. I offer them to wait or to do some odd jobs to get a bit of reputation before that. Then they spend ~ 20 minutes of what is essentially "I dunno, what do you want to do? I dunno, what do you want to do?".

BUT!
That is a distinct minority. In the same campaign my other group tried to make some quick cash and eventually sided with the force they were sent to oppose. And I have numerous tales of wonderous things, especially regarding inter-party and intra-party conflict. In one case, when playing, if our party hadn't had more moraly upstanding people, I would have gotten us to avoid a whole chapter completely. (Since then I am very careful about the phrase "Do something about it").


Anyway. What I'd like to see is some data on numbers of people who have had great/horrible experiences with their players/GMs.

If I was the GM in that case, after 5 minutes of "I dunno" I'd show them how good imagination can be, some thugs show up and beat the crap out of them

Or, I dunno, make up a minor quest on the fly, something from the many many PC RPG games I've played.

 

[Ossian]

double post. Crap.

Uh... I really think I could GM, and I'll never know unless I get my bullheaded friends to try.

Like I said, I've been trying to write lately, so I can really come up with stories, I have an excellent memory so I can recall rules and such. and I really think I could get them into the experience.

 

[Con Carne]

Well my best friend was never all that interested in playing table top RPG's. I wanted him to give d&d a shot. So since I knew he was a fan of Final Fantasy. I spun the campaign around a bit, and introduced Moogles as a new player race and I also made Chocobos into available mounts. He bit on to the idea, and gave d&d a shot. That's all I wanted him to do. It worked. So maybe you can do something like that for your friend.

 

[beniki]

Start off on Warhammer or 40K. That's what got me hooked.

... And broke too.

 

[Da_Vane]

Basically, you need to find out what your friends get from video games and tap into that. Those gamers that like the visuals and sound of video game media are not likely to enjoy tabletop games because they lack these features. If they like the idea of kicking butt and being awesome, then they stand a better chance of being convinced.

 

[Jedoro]

Oh, oh God, we have to use our imagination to play this?

Hell, I'd love to play a tabletop RPG, but I have the same problem as you: not too many friends want to give it a go.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Well I gave D&D a go once, played a few times, and I can see the appeal very well.
But the problem I always had with it is the lack of set rules, so a GM can basically f*ck with you any way he wants, which happens quite often.
And game as the counter part always has it's rules predetermined, this for me makes the fantasy world seem like a real coherent world, rather then a random number of fantasy events.

But it's no doubt alot of fun to shoot the sh*t with your friends that way.

 

[Da_Vane]

Snippity

Sounds like you've had a rough go of things with the Pen and Paper side of things...

Still, you sound like you've always been a player and never a GM and I have to say this to you thing GAME MASTERING IS HARD. Thinking on your feet is HARD and not many systems (ESPECIALLY not DnD) make it any easier for you unless you've planned everything in advance. It's taken me almost 10 years of gaming to figure out how to "Think on My Feet" and have it not be sloppy, now I'm pretty darn good at it, but it takes time, practice and experience. I've found the BEST way to think of it is as a 50/50 sort of thing,

I definately hear you in regards to the "numbers game" though, it's a frequent problem with more of the "Character Build Centric" systems like DnD, anything else produced by Wizards of the Coast, HERO System, GURPS... yeah...

Behold my GM Fu!

There are only two rules needed for any successful tabletop RPG - Rule 0 and Rule -1.

Everything else is just a guideline. As a GM you ARE the rules. That is your role in the game - keep it alive, keep it moving, and keep it fun. If the guidelines are getting in the way of that - change them. But with power comer responsibility, and this is where Rule -1 comes in: The player can always leave the game. A GM without players has no power, no purpose, so should generally aim to keep their players happy and entertained.

Both rules need to be considered in balance. Most problems are caused by these not being in balance.

 

[Korolev]

Um, lots of people still like table top games. Not as many as before, but there are still fans out there. Maybe your friends just don't like that sort of game. I certainly don't - they take quite a bit to get into, and they take a while to set up. I just don't have the time for that sort of thing.

If your existing friends don't like table top games, find some friends that do. You can still be friends with your old friends, but rather than try to force or convince people or trick your friends into liking table top games, it would be far easier and more enjoyable to find some people who like them to begin with.

As for finding table top fans, I have no idea. As I've said, I don't play table top games. There's nothing wrong with them. They're just not for me.

 

[Halceon]

Ille snipus
If I was the GM in that case, after 5 minutes of "I dunno" I'd show them how good imagination can be, some thugs show up and beat the crap out of them

Or, I dunno, make up a minor quest on the fly, something from the many many PC RPG games I've played.

Minor quests wouldn't help, because they already had 4 options for minor quests. Among them "Find an inn and sleep in it".

 

[velcrokidneyz]

Exactly! Just a non-video game version of an rpg, the onyl difference is that the dice rolling is done by computer and the DM isnt ur friend who jsut wants to be a tyrant for the day/night. I would like to get into a weekly D&D or pretty much any tabletop game. Ive tried D&D b4 but the DM sucked and I was playing with mostly aquantances and only a cpl friends, we had to yell at them to make a move because they got distracted, but with soem focus and a good group of friends it is great. Oooo now i wanna play.

 

[elcamino41383]

Well my best friend was never all that interested in playing table top RPG's. I wanted him to give d&d a shot. So since I knew he was a fan of Final Fantasy. I spun the campaign around a bit, and introduced Moogles as a new player race and I also made Chocobos into available mounts. He bit on to the idea, and gave d&d a shot. That's all I wanted him to do. It worked. So maybe you can do something like that for your friend.

Yeah, it worked for 3 whole games!

 

[Talal Provides]

They're more fun than games of the video variety, that's for sure.

 

[Dastardly]

Okay this is sort of a hybrid discussion/advice topic.

I've been playing more and more video games lately and found wanting, either the single playerness of RPG games feels empty or they are too scripted, anyways. I was looking through some crap on my bedroom shelf and I found my brother's old Starwars RPG books (Wizards of the coast) I read through some of them and remembered the awesome times I had when I was a kid playing with my brothers.

Problem is, I don't have many (if any) friends that would play it with me. I asked my most nerdy friend, one that would spend an entire day playing video games like nazi zombies with me, and it didn't end well.

First he said "Eww, there aren't any graphics" at which point I facepalmed on the other side of the phone. Then he goes on to say "Games like that are just lame"
Now, I haven't given up on him, but I'm having trouble trying to get him to get past his preconceptions. Does anyone have any advice how I could spin it to him and some other friends without them reacting so poorly? I really want to game-master these guys in an RPG, and I'm not really willing to go out and look for some group of strangers to play with.

On the discussion front; why on earth do people think RPG games are so horrible? Has D&D completely jaded an entire generation towards such games? When I talk about it people think its all like dressing up and playing make believe. They don't get that it is basically a non video game version of all their favorite RPG video games like KOTOR/Mass effect/Dragon age etc.
I thought we were more tolerant then this?

There are two camps of tabletop playing (and most games lie somewhere between these camps):

1) Storytelling Games

2) Simulation Games

The Storytelling Games focus on the interactions between characters, the story itself, and the overall feel and experience. Dice rolling is kept as out-of-the-way as possible, with some games using extremely simplified mechanics to do this. For an attack, you may roll one die. Based on how well you do, you and/or the GM narrate what happened and assign damage.

The Simulation Games (like D&D) focus on realistic portrayal of the action. You're measuring distances and seconds, referencing tons of rules and charts, usually dealing with disputes on technicalities. But that's what it's about--the realism of the mechanics. You'll make several rolls per attack, as will your target, and every detail matters.

Most people see simulation games as too complicated--"You might as well just play a video game, since it handles all the math for you"--and storytelling games as too pointless--"Why not just watch the movie?" Find which side of the coin appeals to your friend the most, if any, and you might have a chance at easing the idea in...

...but not if he's the first person you start it with. Try to find an existing group that does these things online. They tend to use voice chat for out-of-character stuff, and text chat for in-character, so it feels like sitting around a table with folks, but you don't have to do the goofy voices if you don't want to.