Taking money from the Buddha. Literally.

[Leole]

Oh yeah, I did told her in the end (by that, I mean exactly when I grabbed the money), she was like "Yeah, I noticed", and carried on.

Not that "Do whatever the fuck you want, I don't care", more like, "at least you got some use of the money"

Also,

Wow, taking from your own family. I don't care if you and your family believe in Buddhism or whatever your personal religious beliefs are or what-not, family is sacred. You do not do that to family. For you to cross that line and feel no personal remorse tells me that you have a gaming addiction. You could have waited a week and gotten the money legit. 7 days is not going to kill you; it isn't like 7 days form now the game will have ceased to exist. But you chose gaming over over family. Who cares if she isn't Buddhist? She still has her beliefs and for you to take that money tells her that her beliefs are crap and less valuable than a video game to you.

You crossed the line and if you're not addicted now you will be in the future if that is your way of thinking. You need to stop gaming and seriously think about this.

Well, since I don't think of gaming when I'm not, and I don't have sudden urges to game when I'm doing something else, I'm not addicted. And to say I will be addicted is incredibly self-righteous from your part. You just concluded that that exact moment in my life decided whether or not I'm obsessed about something, disregarding, you know, that time where I spent all my savings on my Best Friend's present (not even a holiday, I felt like it). I bought paint for her room, and painted it myself, instead of getting Skyrim for Christmas. I'm so addicted!

But then again, you wouldn't know, because all you know is what I told you, and that obviously wasn't enough information.

And the game wasn't there when I went to buy it, so, it did cease to exist for the time being.

Furthermore, my mom has taken money from the Buddha before. Money someone else put there, so, that's probably why I didn't feel bad.

And, To the people telling me I should feel bad and I'm evil incarnated, you could've said so in a more kind matter, like this guy:

You don't know the full consequence of your action even when you do intend to replace it a week later (you just pissed off a buddha)!

Ok seriously you shouldn't have done that regardless of your belief including your mother belief. She intended to place that money there, therefore it's her money you just took.
Couldn't you have just asked her for the money instead?

See? All nice and cool. Most of the other responses I read felt like they were written with loathe.

And I still think I did nothing wrong, I am going to pay Buddha back, and its not like he's going to miss it. And why would it be stealing from my mom, if she left the money there for the Buddha? She willingly dropped the money because she didn't want it anymore, or didn't felt like having it on her. Seriously, if I drop a coin into a fountain, and someone else grabs it, who the heck cares? At least he's gonna use it, and I obviously don't need it if I used it for such trivialities.

 

[silversnake4133]

Well, patience is a virtue. I really don't think it would have killed you to wait another week or so just to buy a game. If anything you have a strike against you in terms of Karma. I'd watch out because Karma payouts can really hurt sometimes, and the worst part about it is, you never know when it's coming.

I'm still relatively new to the teachings of the Buddha, but I do know that followers strongly believe in self-sacrifice and giving of oneself more than taking from others. Religious teachings or not, taking what does not belong to you with selfish intent is VERY bad karma, if anything you should put back twice the amount that was left. Either that, or you should have asked if you could put it toward funding your purchase of this game. At least then your mom would know where that money went otherwise.

As for others noting about whether or not the mother "gave" that money to Buddha, think of it more like this: she gave willingly of herself in order to receive good tidings from Buddha. It's similar to the notion that Christians put money into donations for their church, or offering up prayers. (Even though most of us know that that money mostly goes toward paying that church's bills...but that's best beside the point.) Symbolically speaking, she gave a piece of herself (in this case money) to Buddha as an offering, and in turn she gains a sense of happiness, which could affect how she goes about her day (and thus is referred to as "good fortune"). It's mostly a psychological pick-me-up if anything.

 

[Vrach]

Actually, some wishing wells directly support something, and usually if its on a specific property (like mall fountains, or little them park ones) it will be counted as revenue. Or sometimes as "goodwill donation" money (I know my mall does this 30/70 split where they keep 30% of all the money they collect in the fountains and send the other 70 to some charity/group). So it can be stealing (i've seen wishing wells with metal grates actually built into the stone the way you would put rods in concrete for support just because they dont want people stealing from them [and so people dont fall in trying to be a dick by taking money from it and get hurt]).

I like the part where you said "Actually, some wishing wells...". Shows it's not a constant scenario, more of a certain take on the idea. If you prefer, replace "wishing well" with fountain. I know tons of people who throw coins in fountains and I don't consider the people who take the money from there afterwards to be thieves. Again, I'd be surprised at anyone who would.

Theft is defined as "an unlawful taking (as by embezzlement or burglary) of property" so unless he asked her if he could, it is stealing. She didnt relinquish money to a public place its still in her house and belongs to whoever owns that statue or whoever is the primary bill payer. But I guess according to you, when someone takes all the money out of a parent's bank account or takes their social security checks they're not stealing, they're just rudely taking (how that exactly is different than stealing I dont know, cause thats what it sounds like). Whether or not the OP is going to put it back is irrelevant really until they do, and any time inbetween the taking of X amount of money and returning it in full (if not with a little interest as a show of good faith) it is considered theft.

Right. Emptying a bank account = taking a few bucks lying around. Totally the same thing, couldn't be more identical.

 

[emeraldrafael]

Actually, some wishing wells directly support something, and usually if its on a specific property (like mall fountains, or little them park ones) it will be counted as revenue. Or sometimes as "goodwill donation" money (I know my mall does this 30/70 split where they keep 30% of all the money they collect in the fountains and send the other 70 to some charity/group). So it can be stealing (i've seen wishing wells with metal grates actually built into the stone the way you would put rods in concrete for support just because they dont want people stealing from them [and so people dont fall in trying to be a dick by taking money from it and get hurt]).

I like the part where you said "Actually, some wishing wells...". Shows it's not a constant scenario, more of a certain take on the idea. If you prefer, replace "wishing well" with fountain. I know tons of people who throw coins in fountains and I don't consider the people who take the money from there afterwards to be thieves. Again, I'd be surprised at anyone who would.

Well I can only speak for the ones I've seen and of those the majority have some little sign saying any and all items in these whatever are property of whoever. Then again, these were in places that ran as businesses anyway so I wasnt too surprised. And ultimately, someone does come and collect the money thats thrown in (whether or not its a random passerby or whoever owns the property and the well its on I dont know).

And I've seen people take money out of a mall fountain. I did once too. I was promptly brought to face the mall security and explain why I was doing it (I was getting a coin I had just bought that a friend decided to be a dick about and throw it in the well, in case anyone wonders).

Though, if you take money from a fountain (or worse making change with the coin your threw in) then I've generally viewed the person to be rather pathetic.

Theft is defined as "an unlawful taking (as by embezzlement or burglary) of property" so unless he asked her if he could, it is stealing. She didnt relinquish money to a public place its still in her house and belongs to whoever owns that statue or whoever is the primary bill payer. But I guess according to you, when someone takes all the money out of a parent's bank account or takes their social security checks they're not stealing, they're just rudely taking (how that exactly is different than stealing I dont know, cause thats what it sounds like). Whether or not the OP is going to put it back is irrelevant really until they do, and any time inbetween the taking of X amount of money and returning it in full (if not with a little interest as a show of good faith) it is considered theft.

Right. Emptying a bank account = taking a few bucks lying around. Totally the same thing, couldn't be more identical.

Well, they're family right? It shouldnt matter if they steal their entire bank account or a few dollars as long as they're family.

And yeah, they are identical. The principle is still the same the amount is different. You're stealing. Just like murdering one person in cold blood is the same as murdering hundreds, its still murder. Someone just murdered more people.

 

[Gitty101]

Well, when you get X monies soon, how about replacing that which you took? Karma balance restored.

 

[Vrach]

Actually, that is a crime in some countries. Once it is property of the owner of the fountain. People have been criminally charged for taking coins from a fountain.

Once again, key word being some.

Though, if you take money from a fountain (or worse making change with the coin your threw in) then I've generally viewed the person to be rather pathetic.

Well note, I didn't say I did it myself (and the same goes for the Buddha statue thing), I'm just saying it's not wrong in itself. Yes, most of the people who take money out of the fountains here are homeless gypsies, but I don't consider them thieves for that action, so on the matter of principle, I don't deem the action wrong.

Well, they're family right? It shouldnt matter if they steal their entire bank account or a few dollars as long as they're family.

Well the difference is exactly in the term. Taking a few bucks can be borrowing, taking or rude taking. Emptying an account is stealing. Lemme add an additional analogy to make it clearer for you, let's take the WoW's guild bank system:
You have tabs that are open to people.
The tabs are open and the guildies are given "permission" to take as much as they want out of it.
Some guildies may take stuff from time to time and never put anything back. Others may take some stuff because the current AH price is too high and return it later. Others may take some stuff and return some other stuff.
None of those people are considered thieves.
However, a guy emptying out the entire bank and quitting the guild? That's a fucking thief.

Same principle works in some families. Again, yes, depends on the dynamic of the family, in some families it's unthinkable, but it doesn't make it universally wrong.

 

[2012 Wont Happen]

She leaves the money for "good fortune".
It was your good fortune to find it.

Pay her back and all is well. Pay her back extra and you have done a good deed.

 

[PinkiePyro]

if you think people who take coins from the wishing wells are thieves, well, you have an... interesting point of view

actally many fountans and wishing wells donate their coins to charity so if you steal from them you are an asshat

 

[emeraldrafael]

...

Though, if you take money from a fountain (or worse making change with the coin your threw in) then I've generally viewed the person to be rather pathetic.

Well note, I didn't say I did it myself (and the same goes for the Buddha statue thing), I'm just saying it's not wrong in itself. Yes, most of the people who take money out of the fountains here are homeless gypsies, but I don't consider them thieves for that action, so on the matter of principle, I don't deem the action wrong.

well, i didnt really mean you personally, just you more in the general second person verb kinda thing.

Well, they're family right? It shouldnt matter if they steal their entire bank account or a few dollars as long as they're family.

Well the difference is exactly in the term. Taking a few bucks can be borrowing, taking or rude taking. Emptying an account is stealing. Lemme add an additional analogy to make it clearer for you, let's take the WoW's guild bank system:
You have tabs that are open to people.
The tabs are open and the guildies are given "permission" to take as much as they want out of it.
Some guildies may take stuff from time to time and never put anything back. Others may take some stuff because the current AH price is too high and return it later. Others may take some stuff and return some other stuff.
None of those people are considered thieves.
However, a guy emptying out the entire bank and quitting the guild? That's a fucking thief.

Same principle works in some families. Again, yes, depends on the dynamic of the family, in some families it's unthinkable, but it doesn't make it universally wrong.

And I like how you used the word some.

and that example is a bad one. it says
However, a guy emptying out the entire bank and quitting the guild? That's a fucking thief.

That implies that they're not "family" any more. You said if its family, its not stealing, its at most rude taking. so as long as you're "family" it shouldnt matter how much money you take. in fact, you actually did prove my point by saying that the guild said someone can take from it and never put back. They didnt specify the amount until thy had said the person also left the guild. So somone could take everything out of the tab, not replace any, and it wouldnt be theft cause hey're still in the guild. so the amount doesnt matter.

 

[Nouw]

Speaking as a more-or-less Buddhist, I feel that you could have been a little more patient. You stole money from your own mother but with the intention of returning it. You should have asked her and I'm sure she would have said yes. This thread has reminded me that I should be less snarky. Thanks OP.

I'm not spiritual but I feel like fucking with a deity's avatar is asking for trouble.

Nah Buddha's cool with that. He's no Khorne or Slaanesh. Although if you OP, turn into a worm in the next life I hope you know why xD.

 

[Wintermoot]

doesn't it feel wrong to just take money without asking? either wait or ask if it,s okay to take it.
PS I,m not Buddhist either but I also have a Buddha statue with a coin on his hand.

 

[orangeapples]

Oh yeah, I did told her in the end (by that, I mean exactly when I grabbed the money), she was like "Yeah, I noticed", and carried on.

Not that "Do whatever the fuck you want, I don't care", more like, "at least you got some use of the money"

Also,

Wow, taking from your own family. I don't care if you and your family believe in Buddhism or whatever your personal religious beliefs are or what-not, family is sacred. You do not do that to family. For you to cross that line and feel no personal remorse tells me that you have a gaming addiction. You could have waited a week and gotten the money legit. 7 days is not going to kill you; it isn't like 7 days form now the game will have ceased to exist. But you chose gaming over over family. Who cares if she isn't Buddhist? She still has her beliefs and for you to take that money tells her that her beliefs are crap and less valuable than a video game to you.

You crossed the line and if you're not addicted now you will be in the future if that is your way of thinking. You need to stop gaming and seriously think about this.

Well, since I don't think of gaming when I'm not, and I don't have sudden urges to game when I'm doing something else, I'm not addicted. And to say I will be addicted is incredibly self-righteous from your part. You just concluded that that exact moment in my life decided whether or not I'm obsessed about something, disregarding, you know, that time where I spent all my savings on my Best Friend's present (not even a holiday, I felt like it). I bought paint for her room, and painted it myself, instead of getting Skyrim for Christmas. I'm so addicted!

But then again, you wouldn't know, because all you know is what I told you, and that obviously wasn't enough information.

Yeah, you didn't tell us the part where you told her you're taking the money for something. That makes a huge difference in the situation. The way you worded it seemed like you saw the money and decided that your needs are more important than your mother's and that she was out of the house or something.

Gaming addiction is subtle like all addictions. it starts with one compromise in favor of gaming after another. Then over time all decisions place gaming over the real world. Gaming addiction is real and not something to make jokes about. It has nothing to do with being self-righteous and more of being cautionary. I've had friends walk down that path and it does not end well. I think the part that struck us was when you said

I'm not feeling bad about this, part of me think I should, but I don't

For me at least that was a sign that your moral compass was off.

And that stuff you do for your friend and your mother is very noble and commendable, but you are right you didn't tell us the whole story (about how you told her) and there was no way we could have known that.

Now something that strikes me as odd is that you know you messed up by not giving the full story, but then you come back at us with an attitude? We gave you the best advice we could for the information you gave us and then to come back and tell us that we don't know the full story? very mature . You expected kindness?

Look, gamers have spent years trying to get rid of the negative stereotype that society has placed on gamers. We hate it when someone from the gaming community decides that they are going to live up to the stereotype. Society has it in their head that we are amoral little SOBs that have been tainted by the evil video game industry. Then you say that you took money from your mom and don't even feel bad about it; we're not going to take kindly to that.

look from everything you said here, you seem like a nice kid. Little misguided and still having some things to learn, so here are a few lessons for ya:
1. This is the internet; we will take everything either 2 ways: absolutely serious or not seriously at all. There is no middle ground.
2. learn to tell people the full story to the best of your ability. We will always give the best answer for the information presented.
3. Learn some humility. You messed up and didn't give the full story. Learn from it, laugh it off and do your best to not make that mistake in the future. Don't get mad at us for your incompetence.
4. Not everyone in existence has lived your life. Never expect them to know what you know.
5. Taking anything from family is wrong, no matter what. especially if you could get permission from that person.

best part about these lessons is that they work in the real world too.

 

[ultrachicken]

Yes, that's wrong. You took someone's money without receiving permission. And I fail to see how it won't be missed if you won't be returning it for a whole week.

Frankly, you need to learn some respect for other people and their possessions.

 

[Vrach]

if you think people who take coins from the wishing wells are thieves, well, you have an... interesting point of view

actally many fountans and wishing wells donate their coins to charity so if you steal from them you are an asshat

Many do. Many don't. We're talking universal here. It's like me saying "it's ok to take a leak behind a tree" and you replying "well, many trees in Israel have special meaning, so if you piss on them, you're an asshat".

...

Though, if you take money from a fountain (or worse making change with the coin your threw in) then I've generally viewed the person to be rather pathetic.

Well note, I didn't say I did it myself (and the same goes for the Buddha statue thing), I'm just saying it's not wrong in itself. Yes, most of the people who take money out of the fountains here are homeless gypsies, but I don't consider them thieves for that action, so on the matter of principle, I don't deem the action wrong.

well, i didnt really mean you personally, just you more in the general second person verb kinda thing.

Yeah, I know, I just felt like clarifying that point

Well, they're family right? It shouldnt matter if they steal their entire bank account or a few dollars as long as they're family.

Well the difference is exactly in the term. Taking a few bucks can be borrowing, taking or rude taking. Emptying an account is stealing. Lemme add an additional analogy to make it clearer for you, let's take the WoW's guild bank system:
You have tabs that are open to people.
The tabs are open and the guildies are given "permission" to take as much as they want out of it.
Some guildies may take stuff from time to time and never put anything back. Others may take some stuff because the current AH price is too high and return it later. Others may take some stuff and return some other stuff.
None of those people are considered thieves.
However, a guy emptying out the entire bank and quitting the guild? That's a fucking thief.

Same principle works in some families. Again, yes, depends on the dynamic of the family, in some families it's unthinkable, but it doesn't make it universally wrong.

And I like how you used the word some.

and that example is a bad one. it says
However, a guy emptying out the entire bank and quitting the guild? That's a fucking thief.

That implies that they're not "family" any more. You said if its family, its not stealing, its at most rude taking. so as long as you're "family" it shouldnt matter how much money you take.

Who empties a family bank account and stays in the family? I'm sorry, the notion's so ridiculous, I can't even accept it as a hypothetical.

in fact, you actually did prove my point by saying that the guild said someone can take from it and never put back. They didnt specify the amount until thy had said the person also left the guild. So somone could take everything out of the tab, not replace any, and it wouldnt be theft cause hey're still in the guild. so the amount doesnt matter.

Actually, I disproved your point by that argument, because taking a reasonable amount from the guild bank and never giving anything back is not theft. You might be viewed as a parasite (but then again, so can any child past working age), but you won't be viewed as a thief. If you take a ridiculous amount though, like your bank emptying, yes, then you'll be viewed as an asshat and be kicked out of the guild/family, if you didn't have the asshat decency to fuck off yourself first (which pretty much anyone in both cases does)

Also, it's all beside the point, at least from my PoV. From my PoV, once she gives that money to Buddha, it's no longer hers. Not because "oh you gave it away so fuck you", no, because she wanted to give that money away, whether to a person, to a charity or to a statue she believes has magical powers. In either case she does not want that money for herself anymore and as it's not intended for another human being either, the money has no human owner. No owner, no theft.

 

[Korak the Mad]

You could have waited until you earned enough money to buy it, because what if that money was there for another reason besides earning good karma, what if that was for emergencies as well.

For what you did, I have a feeling that when your bad karma strikes you, and it will, it's going to involve that game. Maybe your console will break down, or the game will be damaged and that you can't play it, or maybe the game you bought with that money will disappear on you (misplacing it or it getting stolen). I'm just saying that something will happen.

I think that to help regain some good karma from what you did, I think you should tell your mother, as well as relpace the amount you took, and leave 3X the amount you took as well. So you would have to leave 4X from what you took.

I wish I was rationalist maverick like you. Damn those Buddhaists.

I know alot of people who are Buddhists (including myself), and they are some of the most rational people I know.

Nah, stealing money from your mother is not cool, even if you plan to return it. The fact that it's sat on a Buddha for good luck is irrelevant.

If I were you the guilt would be killing me, I don't know how you can feel nothing.

I agree, how can you not feel guilty about doing that. I know that I would be.

Oh, I think I know why you don't feel guilty, it's because you are trying to convince yourself that the money was just lying there serving no purpose, and since you don't believe in Buddhism, and maybe you thought it was fine to take it.

 

[similar.squirrel]

I wish I was rationalist maverick like you. Damn those Buddhaists.

I know alot of people who are Buddhists (including myself), and they are some of the most rational people I know.

I was mocking the OP.

Buddhism is just about the only organized belief-system that I genuinely like.

 

[TheFinalFantasyWolf]

Why not just ask if your paying her back anyway?
She's your mother, I'm sure she wouldn't have minded that much.
However, I would have to say, I think you need to learn to have some more patience.

I've gone months without getting a game that I really wanted, it's kinda sad that you couldn't even last seven days. I understand the excitement and all, but whatever the case, next time, just don't reduce yourself to thieving.

 

[emeraldrafael]

...

snip

Yeah, I know, I just felt like clarifying that point

Oka

snip

Who empties a family bank account and stays in the family? I'm sorry, the notion's so ridiculous, I can't even accept it as a hypothetical.

family is family. Probably the best way I can put it is when my uncle was younger (I'd say this was probably 40-50 years ago) a guy in his neighborhood killed his sister in rather cold blood. And yet the mother kept going ot prison to visit her son, and always told people in conversation her son was doing well in prison. If someone can still be considered family after killing one of their own family, I dont see why you cant for emptying a bank account. The guilty party will say its oka cause they're family, the robbed may just say they're still my whatever, they needed the money, though I wish they would have asked and I would have helped.

in fact, you actually did prove my point by saying that the guild said someone can take from it and never put back. They didnt specify the amount until thy had said the person also left the guild. So somone could take everything out of the tab, not replace any, and it wouldnt be theft cause hey're still in the guild. so the amount doesnt matter.

Actually, I disproved your point by that argument, because taking a reasonable amount from the guild bank and never giving anything back is not theft. You might be viewed as a parasite (but then again, so can any child past working age), but you won't be viewed as a thief. If you take a ridiculous amount though, like your bank emptying, yes, then you'll be viewed as an asshat and be kicked out of the guild/family, if you didn't have the asshat decency to fuck off yourself first (which pretty much anyone in both cases does)

Also, it's all beside the point, at least from my PoV. From my PoV, once she gives that money to Buddha, it's no longer hers. Not because "oh you gave it away so fuck you", no, because she wanted to give that money away, whether to a person, to a charity or to a statue she believes has magical powers. In either case she does not want that money for herself anymore and as it's not intended for another human being either, the money has no human owner. No owner, no theft.

You're still family up to the point the guild kicks you out or you leave. And if the guild kicks you out, then they cant turn around and call you a thief (or at least they shouldnt) because they made you leave. the guild never says (in the rules you provided) how much you can take out, you just cant take and leave the guild without repaying.

And I guess so. In my original post, I didnt call them a thief. I simply said he should ask their mother for the money, or tell her they took it. the OP followed up and said they did, though I still feel they should have asked, and not just bluntly say I took that money you left there, pay it back later kthanxbai.

 

[Vrach]

You're still family up to the point the guild kicks you out or you leave. And if the guild kicks you out, then they cant turn around and call you a thief (or at least they shouldnt) because they made you leave. the guild never says (in the rules you provided) how much you can take out, you just cant take and leave the guild without repaying.

So, you take everything out of the bank and stay in the guild, not repaying the guild until you die, the guild disbands or whatever external force signifies the end of your dues as long it's not a willing action on your part and it's ok that you never repaid what you took? Basically you're saying employing a passive aggressive attitude + opportunity makes it ok to steal.

And I guess so. In my original post, I didnt call them a thief. I simply said he should ask their mother for the money, or tell her they took it. the OP followed up and said they did, though I still feel they should have asked, and not just bluntly say I took that money you left there, pay it back later kthanxbai.

You're missing my point. The Buddha tray is NOT a spot where you leave money lying around (and I don't mean that in a "anyone could take your money" kind of way). It's not a table, it's not a purse, it's not a wallet, it's not a place where you leave something of your own where it stays your own. He didn't take that money from her. She put the money there to give it away. To Buddha. Who is a subject of her faith and not a real person or organization. Thereby, she made the money ownerless. Once the money stopped having a real owner, it was anyone's to take.

I'm not saying it's cool to take money from your family - that was just a off-track conversation where I said that in particular IS cool, in SOME families, depending on family dynamics/relations. I'm saying it's cool to take money that doesn't have an owner. It's actually even less morally challenging than taking money you find on the street. The money you find on the street, someone might've dropped. You "should" make an effort to return that money to it's rightful owner. No, in this instance, that money was willingly given away to an entity that doesn't physically exist, which is an act that willingly disowns the money. Once ownerless, and even willingly so, yes, that money is anyone's to take.

This of course, is all based on the information the OP has supplied us, that the mother leaves the money away there, presumably doesn't take it again (yes, it's an assumption, but as I've said in one of my previous points, if she believes giving money to Buddha makes her lucky, it's a reasonable guess that she doesn't take the money back from him; but I might be stupid, mixing logic and religion here) and doesn't use that spot as a "I'll put money for Buddha here, then when the money piles up, give it to charity, a Buddhist temple or w/e".

 

[Claptrap]

I wouldn't take money full stop without asking.