Talk Awkwardly to Me

[Anachronism]

I agree, and I really didn't think I would.

I do still think the relationship mechanics in BioWare's games are very good, and probably the best out there at the moment. Baldur's Gate II had the option to get involved with one of the NPCs, and it didn't have a sex scene, unlike Mass Effect. I still thought the relationship dialogues were very well done, and served to provide additional layers to the NPCs and round out their personalities better.

And yet, like this article says, I never actually finished the love quests because I didn't think it really made sense in the context of a world-destroying cataclysm. Much though I liked the NPCs, I couldn't shake the feeling that there were more important things to be doing: saving the world, for instance. Of course, it didn't help that the NPC I was getting involved with was the ex-wife of a dead NPC who had been one of my favourite characters. The point is, I think this article hit the nail on the head when it talks about the fact that actual relationships are extremely unlikely to occur during events like those in BGII and ME.

I still think BioWare are at the forefront of providing mature "adult" content in videogames, and they're doing it better than pretty much every other developer out there. That doesn't mean it's perfect; far from it, in fact, but they're still very good at it. Like you said, we're just going to have to wait a little longer before sex and relationships in games work like they do in real life.

 

[Random Argument Man]

Seriously, I talked to Liara three times before that and then she starts talking about how she feels a connection and blah blah blah and you have sex. Love doesn't work like that Bioware!

If you're James Bond, it does.

 

[Anachronism]

Thing is, none of us have ever been in the context of a world-destroying cataclysm, so why do we expect sex and relationships in games work like they do in real life when the context of our real lives is so much different than that in these games?

I think it made perfect sense: when the whole world is falling apart, a lot of barriers are going to fall and people are going to act on their emotions and take refuge in whatever meaningful personal connections are available to them. We see that all the time in the real world in the context of lesser events.

I see your point, but I would have thought that in the events like those in BGII or ME, people aren't going to want serious relationships. In those situations, anyone could be killed at any time; you never know quite what's going to happen. As such, you probably wouldn't want to get too close to someone in case something happens to them. Casual sex would actually be more believable in those scenarios: if people are getting rid of their inhibitions because of the end of the world, I think that's a far more likely outcome than a meaningful, lasting relationship.

Spoiler: Major spoilers for Baldur's Gate II

Especially in this case, I don't think the protagonist is going to be thinking about getting into a serious relationship with any of the NPCs. Seeing as the guy's had his soul removed, he's probably going to have other things on his mind than getting romantically involved with any of his companions. Stopping himself from turning into the avatar of Bhaal, for one.

 

[johnman]

Like you said, we're just going to have to wait a little longer before sex and relationships in games work like they do in real life.

Bioware have shown that they can do Romance, have we all forgotten Bastilia from KOTOR? That didnt even have a sex scene, just one small kiss, and even that was not shown but the implications of it were felt thought the remainder of the game.
The build up made sense, Bastila goes from a stuck up high and mighty jedi to insecure and broken all because of your actions.

I had both ashley and Liara in the position where they bone me, but only Liara turned up so i to go with her. I really didnt like the sex scenes, and after you had done it it may as not have happened. No snide comments from other team members, no jealousy form Ashley, no more conversation between Shepard and Liara. It felt shoehorned in.

 

[boholikeu]

If american developers want to include sexual relations in their games then they need to start looking at games from across the pond. More specifically the Japanese. Questions of the "why" need to be asked in order to understand.

Seriously? Though Japanese games have sex/relationships in there games a lot more often than Western games, I fail to see how they are any less juvenile.

I wrote that because the Japanese dating sims have existed in the video game industry for a long time and have learned to tell dramatic stories and create meaningful relationships between characters both for the player and the cast.

The question of "Why" is to get western developers thinking on how to understand why games that involve mature content of relationships work in Japan's video game industry. Why games with the same content as books and movies can be sold to teenagers without worry.

Right now the only thing that is hurting the japanese video game industry is the United States with the neo-feminist movement pushing a different culture and moral code onto another country but that only affects the adult japanese dating sims. There are still a lot of games that allow meaningful relationships that are actually sold on the consoles.

Here is a good example that is not complained and has romantic relationships between characters. Persona 4 published by Atlus here in the states. You get to play as a teenage boy and well over half of the game is being a dating simulator. Sure there is an RPG dungeon crawler in the game but what makes the RPG elements unique is the dating simulator and remember that is the fourth in the series. The first Persona existed on the Playstation.

Well, the main reasons dating sims are more popular over here (I live in Japan) are largely cultural, though probably not in the way you suspect. Dating sims are regarded by the general public in Japan pretty with pretty much the same amount of contempt that they are in the US. The only difference is that dorks here in Japan are so much more ostracized that they really don't care what other people think anymore. It's the same reason you see phenomenon like anatomically correct figures or maid cafes.

Also, I'm happy to tell you that the "neo-feminist movement" has had no affect whatsoever on the Japanese game market. They were having financial problems long before that. It's part of the reason why so many Japanese devs are up in arms now about how to make a game that appeals to Western audiences.

 

[CuervoJoe]

That thing about love in Dragon age which was shown at E3 was just terrible...

 

[Zombie_Fish]

The problem with the theme of sex in gaming is that it is often viewed of as a taboo in society. There was a lot of controversy about the Hot Coffee incident in GTA: San Andreas, as well as the one mentioned in Mass Effect. I have nothing against it as a topic personally in gaming, but after so long with it as a thing of censorship it will take a while to get used to putting it in anyway.

 

[antipunt]

This 'specialization' of sex, and how it is taboo and 'oh noes'!

Sometimes it really goes way too far...though I suppose I should blame our Puritan-origins..

 

[neispace]

I don't even think movies portray sex for its own sake realistically. Most depictions are, well pointless. It's not like a JRPG will have a serious sidequest about the main hero's inability to get it up with his wife, and you have to seek counseling. There will never be bad backs, or actually serious discussion on what it means to have to deal with viewing people as sexual objects. It's just naked chicks and impossible sex.

Tbh, given how scarily fans of almost any game add fan-created works that focus often solely on sex, I don't think there is much a lack of that. As an older gamer surfing the net, I don't think people really understand how non-puritan we are. Rule 34 comes to mind. We probably need less focus on sex altogether.

 

[Midniqht]

i cant force myself to have an opinion about the topic of sex in games really...
truth is, sex sells. i think that a lot of people try to look into the hows/whys/whats about sex in games and the reasons or justifications it should have, but really just end up thinking too much about it.

 

[Kuchinawa212]

Hmm I think the first sex in game, for me, was Price of Persia: the sand of time.

And I see no problem with it. It did feel a tad shoehorned in though..

 

[bushwhacker2k]

I don't think sex has ever been done well in games, I don't even understand where he gets off saying the Witcher did sex well...

One thing that does bug me though, blacking out sex scenes, I'm not saying they have to make it graphic but censorship bugs me enough, why bring more of it?

Also, I've never ever ever seen someone in a game I could fall in love with, and the concept of simulated love just sounds silly to me.

 

[NeutralDrow]

If american developers want to include sexual relations in their games then they need to start looking at games from across the pond. More specifically the Japanese. Questions of the "why" need to be asked in order to understand.

Seriously? Though Japanese games have sex/relationships in there games a lot more often than Western games, I fail to see how they are any less juvenile.

I wrote that because the Japanese dating sims have existed in the video game industry for a long time and have learned to tell dramatic stories and create meaningful relationships between characters both for the player and the cast.

The question of "Why" is to get western developers thinking on how to understand why games that involve mature content of relationships work in Japan's video game industry. Why games with the same content as books and movies can be sold to teenagers without worry.

Right now the only thing that is hurting the japanese video game industry is the United States with the neo-feminist movement pushing a different culture and moral code onto another country but that only affects the adult japanese dating sims. There are still a lot of games that allow meaningful relationships that are actually sold on the consoles.

Here is a good example that is not complained and has romantic relationships between characters. Persona 4 published by Atlus here in the states. You get to play as a teenage boy and well over half of the game is being a dating simulator. Sure there is an RPG dungeon crawler in the game but what makes the RPG elements unique is the dating simulator and remember that is the fourth in the series. The first Persona existed on the Playstation.

Well, the main reasons dating sims are more popular over here (I live in Japan) are largely cultural, though probably not in the way you suspect. Dating sims are regarded by the general public in Japan with pretty much the same amount of contempt that they are in the US. The only difference is that dorks here in Japan are so much more ostracized that they really don't care what other people think anymore. It's the same reason you see phenomenon like anatomically correct figures or maid cafes.

I have noticed that.

From what little I've seen so far, it still seems to come out as a plus for Japanese games in that regard. Regardless of how the popularity comes about, sex in certain genres of video game is still an accepted trait (it's looked down upon, but not an out-and-out taboo), and it's therefore been growing with the industry. Most ren'ai otaku may be creepier than mainstream gamers, but that doesn't stop them from being a discerning audience. That plus the fact that sex is far more common in Japanese games (of whatever kind) than in American games means Sturgeon's Law is in full swing; 90% of dating sims may be nothing more than porn you have to work for, but there are quite a few wonderfully written works that get it right.

...I'm hoping, since I kinda inadvertently went nuts at the J-List booth at Comic Con. My experience has been somewhat limited thus far (though I'm perfectly willing to defend Fate/Stay Night's sex scenes).

As a side note, I'm not quite willing to defend certain...other aspects of otaku culture. Repression breeds some weird shit. Maid cafes seemed to be the least of it while I was over there...

 

[boholikeu]

If american developers want to include sexual relations in their games then they need to start looking at games from across the pond. More specifically the Japanese. Questions of the "why" need to be asked in order to understand.

Seriously? Though Japanese games have sex/relationships in there games a lot more often than Western games, I fail to see how they are any less juvenile.

I wrote that because the Japanese dating sims have existed in the video game industry for a long time and have learned to tell dramatic stories and create meaningful relationships between characters both for the player and the cast.

The question of "Why" is to get western developers thinking on how to understand why games that involve mature content of relationships work in Japan's video game industry. Why games with the same content as books and movies can be sold to teenagers without worry.

Right now the only thing that is hurting the japanese video game industry is the United States with the neo-feminist movement pushing a different culture and moral code onto another country but that only affects the adult japanese dating sims. There are still a lot of games that allow meaningful relationships that are actually sold on the consoles.

Here is a good example that is not complained and has romantic relationships between characters. Persona 4 published by Atlus here in the states. You get to play as a teenage boy and well over half of the game is being a dating simulator. Sure there is an RPG dungeon crawler in the game but what makes the RPG elements unique is the dating simulator and remember that is the fourth in the series. The first Persona existed on the Playstation.

Well, the main reasons dating sims are more popular over here (I live in Japan) are largely cultural, though probably not in the way you suspect. Dating sims are regarded by the general public in Japan with pretty much the same amount of contempt that they are in the US. The only difference is that dorks here in Japan are so much more ostracized that they really don't care what other people think anymore. It's the same reason you see phenomenon like anatomically correct figures or maid cafes.

I have noticed that.

From what little I've seen so far, it still seems to come out as a plus for Japanese games in that regard. Regardless of how the popularity comes about, sex in certain genres of video game is still an accepted trait (it's looked down upon, but not an out-and-out taboo), and it's therefore been growing with the industry. Most ren'ai otaku may be creepier than mainstream gamers, but that doesn't stop them from being a discerning audience. That plus the fact that sex is far more common in Japanese games (of whatever kind) than in American games means Sturgeon's Law is in full swing; 90% of dating sims may be nothing more than porn you have to work for, but there are quite a few wonderfully written works that get it right.

...I'm hoping, since I kinda inadvertently went nuts at the J-List booth at Comic Con. My experience has been somewhat limited thus far (though I'm perfectly willing to defend Fate/Stay Night's sex scenes).

As a side note, I'm not quite willing to defend certain...other aspects of otaku culture. Repression breeds some weird shit. Maid cafes seemed to be the least of it while I was over there...

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and check out the titles you mentioned. I'm not guaranteeing I'll change my mind, but I'll keep an open mind at least.

 

[NeutralDrow]

If american developers want to include sexual relations in their games then they need to start looking at games from across the pond. More specifically the Japanese. Questions of the "why" need to be asked in order to understand.

Seriously? Though Japanese games have sex/relationships in there games a lot more often than Western games, I fail to see how they are any less juvenile.

I wrote that because the Japanese dating sims have existed in the video game industry for a long time and have learned to tell dramatic stories and create meaningful relationships between characters both for the player and the cast.

The question of "Why" is to get western developers thinking on how to understand why games that involve mature content of relationships work in Japan's video game industry. Why games with the same content as books and movies can be sold to teenagers without worry.

Right now the only thing that is hurting the japanese video game industry is the United States with the neo-feminist movement pushing a different culture and moral code onto another country but that only affects the adult japanese dating sims. There are still a lot of games that allow meaningful relationships that are actually sold on the consoles.

Here is a good example that is not complained and has romantic relationships between characters. Persona 4 published by Atlus here in the states. You get to play as a teenage boy and well over half of the game is being a dating simulator. Sure there is an RPG dungeon crawler in the game but what makes the RPG elements unique is the dating simulator and remember that is the fourth in the series. The first Persona existed on the Playstation.

Well, the main reasons dating sims are more popular over here (I live in Japan) are largely cultural, though probably not in the way you suspect. Dating sims are regarded by the general public in Japan with pretty much the same amount of contempt that they are in the US. The only difference is that dorks here in Japan are so much more ostracized that they really don't care what other people think anymore. It's the same reason you see phenomenon like anatomically correct figures or maid cafes.

I have noticed that.

From what little I've seen so far, it still seems to come out as a plus for Japanese games in that regard. Regardless of how the popularity comes about, sex in certain genres of video game is still an accepted trait (it's looked down upon, but not an out-and-out taboo), and it's therefore been growing with the industry. Most ren'ai otaku may be creepier than mainstream gamers, but that doesn't stop them from being a discerning audience. That plus the fact that sex is far more common in Japanese games (of whatever kind) than in American games means Sturgeon's Law is in full swing; 90% of dating sims may be nothing more than porn you have to work for, but there are quite a few wonderfully written works that get it right.

...I'm hoping, since I kinda inadvertently went nuts at the J-List booth at Comic Con. My experience has been somewhat limited thus far (though I'm perfectly willing to defend Fate/Stay Night's sex scenes).

As a side note, I'm not quite willing to defend certain...other aspects of otaku culture. Repression breeds some weird shit. Maid cafes seemed to be the least of it while I was over there...

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and check out the titles you mentioned. I'm not guaranteeing I'll change my mind, but I'll keep an open mind at least.

?

I only mentioned one title. Granted, I recommend Fate/Stay Night very, very highly, but for unrelated reasons. Sex is only, like, 2-3% of the game (estimated; there's seven sex scenes, but it's an extremely long game). I also recommend Tsukihime (a review on which I'm almost finished writing), but explicitly not for the sex scenes (which are are wonderfully built up to and make perfect thematic and emotional sense...but are terribly written). Hell, anything by TYPE-MOON.

I can't make any recommendations on actual "dating sims" (rather than just technically eroge visual novels) until I finish playing Kana: Little Sister, Princess Waltz, A Drug That Makes You Dream, Little My Maid, Casual Romance Club, Crescendo, Xchange, Tokimeki Check-in, and Heart de Roommate. Or even start playing them. ...like I said, kinda went nuts. >_>

 

[boholikeu]

If american developers want to include sexual relations in their games then they need to start looking at games from across the pond. More specifically the Japanese. Questions of the "why" need to be asked in order to understand.

Seriously? Though Japanese games have sex/relationships in there games a lot more often than Western games, I fail to see how they are any less juvenile.

I wrote that because the Japanese dating sims have existed in the video game industry for a long time and have learned to tell dramatic stories and create meaningful relationships between characters both for the player and the cast.

The question of "Why" is to get western developers thinking on how to understand why games that involve mature content of relationships work in Japan's video game industry. Why games with the same content as books and movies can be sold to teenagers without worry.

Right now the only thing that is hurting the japanese video game industry is the United States with the neo-feminist movement pushing a different culture and moral code onto another country but that only affects the adult japanese dating sims. There are still a lot of games that allow meaningful relationships that are actually sold on the consoles.

Here is a good example that is not complained and has romantic relationships between characters. Persona 4 published by Atlus here in the states. You get to play as a teenage boy and well over half of the game is being a dating simulator. Sure there is an RPG dungeon crawler in the game but what makes the RPG elements unique is the dating simulator and remember that is the fourth in the series. The first Persona existed on the Playstation.

Well, the main reasons dating sims are more popular over here (I live in Japan) are largely cultural, though probably not in the way you suspect. Dating sims are regarded by the general public in Japan with pretty much the same amount of contempt that they are in the US. The only difference is that dorks here in Japan are so much more ostracized that they really don't care what other people think anymore. It's the same reason you see phenomenon like anatomically correct figures or maid cafes.

I have noticed that.

From what little I've seen so far, it still seems to come out as a plus for Japanese games in that regard. Regardless of how the popularity comes about, sex in certain genres of video game is still an accepted trait (it's looked down upon, but not an out-and-out taboo), and it's therefore been growing with the industry. Most ren'ai otaku may be creepier than mainstream gamers, but that doesn't stop them from being a discerning audience. That plus the fact that sex is far more common in Japanese games (of whatever kind) than in American games means Sturgeon's Law is in full swing; 90% of dating sims may be nothing more than porn you have to work for, but there are quite a few wonderfully written works that get it right.

...I'm hoping, since I kinda inadvertently went nuts at the J-List booth at Comic Con. My experience has been somewhat limited thus far (though I'm perfectly willing to defend Fate/Stay Night's sex scenes).

As a side note, I'm not quite willing to defend certain...other aspects of otaku culture. Repression breeds some weird shit. Maid cafes seemed to be the least of it while I was over there...

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and check out the titles you mentioned. I'm not guaranteeing I'll change my mind, but I'll keep an open mind at least.

?

I only mentioned one title. Granted, I recommend Fate/Stay Night very, very highly, but for unrelated reasons. Sex is only, like, 2-3% of the game (estimated; there's seven sex scenes, but it's an extremely long game). I also recommend Tsukihime (a review on which I'm almost finished writing), but explicitly not for the sex scenes (which are are wonderfully built up to and make perfect thematic and emotional sense...but are terribly written). Hell, anything by TYPE-MOON.

I can't make any recommendations on actual "dating sims" (rather than just technically eroge visual novels) until I finish playing Kana: Little Sister, Princess Waltz, A Drug That Makes You Dream, Little My Maid, Casual Romance Club, Crescendo, Xchange, Tokimeki Check-in, and Heart de Roommate. Or even start playing them. ...like I said, kinda went nuts. >_>

Yeah, I thought Fate/Stay Night referred to two games. A quick google search proved otherwise.

Since the game seems REALLLY long I don't think I'll play it, so could you explain to be how the sex scenes fit into the whole thing? Based on my reading of the plot the sex scenes could either be integral to the story or "fan service", but you obviously seem to think that they are the former. Could you expand a bit on their purpose in the game?

 

[NeutralDrow]

If american developers want to include sexual relations in their games then they need to start looking at games from across the pond. More specifically the Japanese. Questions of the "why" need to be asked in order to understand.

Seriously? Though Japanese games have sex/relationships in there games a lot more often than Western games, I fail to see how they are any less juvenile.

I wrote that because the Japanese dating sims have existed in the video game industry for a long time and have learned to tell dramatic stories and create meaningful relationships between characters both for the player and the cast.

The question of "Why" is to get western developers thinking on how to understand why games that involve mature content of relationships work in Japan's video game industry. Why games with the same content as books and movies can be sold to teenagers without worry.

Right now the only thing that is hurting the japanese video game industry is the United States with the neo-feminist movement pushing a different culture and moral code onto another country but that only affects the adult japanese dating sims. There are still a lot of games that allow meaningful relationships that are actually sold on the consoles.

Here is a good example that is not complained and has romantic relationships between characters. Persona 4 published by Atlus here in the states. You get to play as a teenage boy and well over half of the game is being a dating simulator. Sure there is an RPG dungeon crawler in the game but what makes the RPG elements unique is the dating simulator and remember that is the fourth in the series. The first Persona existed on the Playstation.

Well, the main reasons dating sims are more popular over here (I live in Japan) are largely cultural, though probably not in the way you suspect. Dating sims are regarded by the general public in Japan with pretty much the same amount of contempt that they are in the US. The only difference is that dorks here in Japan are so much more ostracized that they really don't care what other people think anymore. It's the same reason you see phenomenon like anatomically correct figures or maid cafes.

I have noticed that.

From what little I've seen so far, it still seems to come out as a plus for Japanese games in that regard. Regardless of how the popularity comes about, sex in certain genres of video game is still an accepted trait (it's looked down upon, but not an out-and-out taboo), and it's therefore been growing with the industry. Most ren'ai otaku may be creepier than mainstream gamers, but that doesn't stop them from being a discerning audience. That plus the fact that sex is far more common in Japanese games (of whatever kind) than in American games means Sturgeon's Law is in full swing; 90% of dating sims may be nothing more than porn you have to work for, but there are quite a few wonderfully written works that get it right.

...I'm hoping, since I kinda inadvertently went nuts at the J-List booth at Comic Con. My experience has been somewhat limited thus far (though I'm perfectly willing to defend Fate/Stay Night's sex scenes).

As a side note, I'm not quite willing to defend certain...other aspects of otaku culture. Repression breeds some weird shit. Maid cafes seemed to be the least of it while I was over there...

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and check out the titles you mentioned. I'm not guaranteeing I'll change my mind, but I'll keep an open mind at least.

?

I only mentioned one title. Granted, I recommend Fate/Stay Night very, very highly, but for unrelated reasons. Sex is only, like, 2-3% of the game (estimated; there's seven sex scenes, but it's an extremely long game). I also recommend Tsukihime (a review on which I'm almost finished writing), but explicitly not for the sex scenes (which are are wonderfully built up to and make perfect thematic and emotional sense...but are terribly written). Hell, anything by TYPE-MOON.

I can't make any recommendations on actual "dating sims" (rather than just technically eroge visual novels) until I finish playing Kana: Little Sister, Princess Waltz, A Drug That Makes You Dream, Little My Maid, Casual Romance Club, Crescendo, Xchange, Tokimeki Check-in, and Heart de Roommate. Or even start playing them. ...like I said, kinda went nuts. >_>

Yeah, I thought Fate/Stay Night referred to two games. A quick google search proved otherwise.

Since the game seems REALLLY long I don't think I'll play it, so could you explain to be how the sex scenes fit into the whole thing? Based on my reading of the plot the sex scenes could either be integral to the story or "fan service", but you obviously seem to think that they are the former. Could you expand a bit on their purpose in the game?

Very well. Essential to some of these is the Nasuverse idea that sex is one method of regaining mana (along with drinking blood or, if you're capable of doing so and depraved enough, eating souls). If that didn't drive you away, I'll go on. (Note: the following are perfectly SFW. I'm too fond of my clean forum record for anything else)

Spoiler: Fate route, first scene

Because Shirou and Saber's connection is tenuous, Saber doesn't receive mana from Shirou as part of the Servant Spirit bond. As a result, she's close to death after being forced to use her Noble Phantasm (Excalibur) to kill Rider. One or two days later, a life-or-death situation (the need to fight Ilya and Berserker, whose approach Archer gives his life delaying) prompts Rin to bring up sex between Shirou and Saber as their only option. Shirou reluctantly agrees after Saber gives her approval.

This is one of the odd scenes, and the most fanservicey one, given that it's technically a threesome (Rin...initiates things with Saber). Other than that, it introduces the idea of mana exchange and provides a small angst point for both Shirou (who feels guilty) and Saber (whose feelings for Shirou start becoming more obvious).

The PS2 port (Realta Nua) and the anime change this scene to something bizarre involving a dragon.

Spoiler: Fate, second scene

This is at the end of a very emotional day involving a date between Shirou and Saber, a major argument between the two when Shirou tries again to convince Saber to stop fighting and Saber emphatically rejects the idea (both for reasons too long to go into at the moment), Shirou finally admitting to himself that he loves her, a reconciliation cut violently short by a sudden encounter with Gilgamesh, and a harrowing fight and escape. After waking to find Saber caring for him, despite being in pain herself (having once again used Excalibur), Shirou breaks down and tries again to convince her to set aside her goal (again, long story). She refuses and demands to know why he keeps bringing it up. He finally confesses that he loves her, and when she falls silent instead of rejecting him, he asks if she'd have sex with him. She agrees, saying she can't return his feeling, but she does need to recharge. It quickly becomes obvious that she's lying about the "not returning his feeling."

Whether this scene is absolutely integral to the plot in any way other than "yes, they really do love each other", I can't say. I also don't think it matters. It's easily the best scene of its kind in the game, and probably the best ero scene Kinoko Nasu's ever written.

Spoiler: Unlimited Blade Works route, only scene

In planning to fight Gilgamesh and destroy the Holy Grail, Rin and Shirou decide that Shirou might have a chance alone against Gil with projection magic, especially if he can use his Reality Marble. Since Shirou's normal mana level is pretty low, Rin comes up with a way to tie his magic circuits to hers (she's got a much larger capacity), which requires both of their physical and spiritual defenses to be down...which can be attained in orgasm. For whatever reason, she decides that intercourse is the best way to go about this (despite both of them being virgins, and needing to reach simultaneous orgasm), and when Shirou objects that he'd hoped they'd have sex the first time with nothing in the way, she overrides him and asks him to pretend that there's no overriding concern.

This scene is horrendously, hilariously, and realistically awkward. I guess it can kinda serve as moe fanservice (Rin's insecurity is sort of cute), but nothing else. It's also not connected to the "fluid exchange = mana transfer," though it does borrow from tantric philosophy. It's...pretty much the only ero scene in the game I skip over (at least, the second half, since the first is kinda funny).

I don't know what they replaced this scene with in the PS2 port, but I want to.

Spoiler: Heaven's Feel route, first scene

Shirou has an erotic dream one night that involves sex with Rin. Shirou finds the dream more disturbing than arousing, because it seems to be oddly long, and extremely draining. Rin has her eyes closed most of the time...but when she opens them once, not only are they clearly not Rin's eyes, but they're clearly not human either.

I honestly think the primary purpose of this scene is to creep the reader the hell out (a very common theme in the route). It's secondary purpose is showing that the owner of those eyes (eventually revealed to be Rider) is getting mana from Shirou in a sort-of succubus fashion (which has a few connecting implications, like Rider trying to minimize the mana burden on Sakura).

The PS2 port replaces the erotic dream with a dream where not-Rin instead bites Shirou and drinks his blood.

Spoiler: Heaven's Feel, second scene

Sakura has basically had the capability to use Makiri-style magic tortured into her for about a decade (in addition to being slowly turned into a Holy Grail). Aspects of this...training include a Magic Crest worm, and experiences with the Makiri parasitic worms. The result of this (especially the first thing) is usually a combination of decreased mana levels and increased sexual frustration. Sakura eventually reveals this to Shirou (who she admires, loves, and fantasizes about), seducing him when the pressure becomes too great. He's coincidentally in a weak moment, but he's still attracted to her and wants to help her. Disturbing parallels are drawn during the scene to the Shadow that Shirou has encountered during the Grail War. Not to mention his dreams all involve sex with her, and are shown parallel to the first ero scene in the route.

Again, creepy factor, though it also kicks off Shirou's and Sakura's sexual escapades (if such is the word). Unless you're playing Realta Nua, in which case it kicks off Sakura drinking Shirou's blood every so often.

Spoiler: Heaven's Feel, third scene

Sakura goes to Shirou again, and for the same reason. The Shadow parallels are understated this time, and the scene progresses more normally.

This scene gets rid of most of the creepy factor and shows signs of Sakura and Shirou developing a healthy sexual relationship. More fanservicey, I suppose, if "hey, they can have normal sex!" counts as fanservice.

Spoiler: Heaven's Feel, fourth scene

Sakura goes to Shirou, assuring him that she's actually doing fine, mana-wise, and he doesn't need to push himself to have sex with her. He asks anyway, and after a brief moment of surprise, she happily agrees.

The shortest, but probably the single most story-important ero scene in the game. Sakura finally realizes that Shirou isn't having sex with her simply out of obligation, but also because he genuinely loves her and finds her desirable. Considering all the crap she's gone through in life that's steadily driven her self-esteem into the gutter, this realization gives her a huge confidence boost.

Enough confidence, in fact, to resist Shinji's later attempt to guilt-trip and rape her (like he's been doing for years), leading to him trying to instead extort her into submitting, leading to her panicked, violent (lethal) reaction...catalyzing Sakura's transformation into Dark Sakura and everything that results from that. It was still worth it to have that son of a ***** die at the hands of the person who suffered most because of him...

And there you have it. In, I suspect, far more detail than you wanted.

 

[boholikeu]

Very well. Essential to some of these is the Nasuverse idea that sex is one method of regaining mana (along with drinking blood or, if you're capable of doing so and depraved enough, eating souls). If that didn't drive you away, I'll go on. (Note: the following are perfectly SFW. I'm too fond of my clean forum record for anything else)

Spoiler: Fate route, first scene

Because Shirou and Saber's connection is tenuous, Saber doesn't receive mana from Shirou as part of the Servant Spirit bond. As a result, she's close to death after being forced to use her Noble Phantasm (Excalibur) to kill Rider. One or two days later, a life-or-death situation (the need to fight Ilya and Berserker, whose approach Archer gives his life delaying) prompts Rin to bring up sex between Shirou and Saber as their only option. Shirou reluctantly agrees after Saber gives her approval.

This is one of the odd scenes, and the most fanservicey one, given that it's technically a threesome (Rin...initiates things with Saber). Other than that, it introduces the idea of mana exchange and provides a small angst point for both Shirou (who feels guilty) and Saber (whose feelings for Shirou start becoming more obvious).

The PS2 port (Realta Nua) and the anime change this scene to something bizarre involving a dragon.

Spoiler: Fate, second scene

This is at the end of a very emotional day involving a date between Shirou and Saber, a major argument between the two when Shirou tries again to convince Saber to stop fighting and Saber emphatically rejects the idea (both for reasons too long to go into at the moment), Shirou finally admitting to himself that he loves her, a reconciliation cut violently short by a sudden encounter with Gilgamesh, and a harrowing fight and escape. After waking to find Saber caring for him, despite being in pain herself (having once again used Excalibur), Shirou breaks down and tries again to convince her to set aside her goal (again, long story). She refuses and demands to know why he keeps bringing it up. He finally confesses that he loves her, and when she falls silent instead of rejecting him, he asks if she'd have sex with him. She agrees, saying she can't return his feeling, but she does need to recharge. It quickly becomes obvious that she's lying about the "not returning his feeling."

Whether this scene is absolutely integral to the plot in any way other than "yes, they really do love each other", I can't say. I also don't think it matters. It's easily the best scene of its kind in the game, and probably the best ero scene Kinoko Nasu's ever written.

Spoiler: Unlimited Blade Works route, only scene

In planning to fight Gilgamesh and destroy the Holy Grail, Rin and Shirou decide that Shirou might have a chance alone against Gil with projection magic, especially if he can use his Reality Marble. Since Shirou's normal mana level is pretty low, Rin comes up with a way to tie his magic circuits to hers (she's got a much larger capacity), which requires both of their physical and spiritual defenses to be down...which can be attained in orgasm. For whatever reason, she decides that intercourse is the best way to go about this (despite both of them being virgins, and needing to reach simultaneous orgasm), and when Shirou objects that he'd hoped they'd have sex the first time with nothing in the way, she overrides him and asks him to pretend that there's no overriding concern.

This scene is horrendously, hilariously, and realistically awkward. I guess it can kinda serve as moe fanservice (Rin's insecurity is sort of cute), but nothing else. It's also not connected to the "fluid exchange = mana transfer," though it does borrow from tantric philosophy. It's...pretty much the only ero scene in the game I skip over (at least, the second half, since the first is kinda funny).

I don't know what they replaced this scene with in the PS2 port, but I want to.

Spoiler: Heaven's Feel route, first scene

Shirou has an erotic dream one night that involves sex with Rin. Shirou finds the dream more disturbing than arousing, because it seems to be oddly long, and extremely draining. Rin has her eyes closed most of the time...but when she opens them once, not only are they clearly not Rin's eyes, but they're clearly not human either.

I honestly think the primary purpose of this scene is to creep the reader the hell out (a very common theme in the route). It's secondary purpose is showing that the owner of those eyes (eventually revealed to be Rider) is getting mana from Shirou in a sort-of succubus fashion (which has a few connecting implications, like Rider trying to minimize the mana burden on Sakura).

The PS2 port replaces the erotic dream with a dream where not-Rin instead bites Shirou and drinks his blood.

Spoiler: Heaven's Feel, second scene

Sakura has basically had the capability to use Makiri-style magic tortured into her for about a decade (in addition to being slowly turned into a Holy Grail). Aspects of this...training include a Magic Crest worm, and experiences with the Makiri parasitic worms. The result of this (especially the first thing) is usually a combination of decreased mana levels and increased sexual frustration. Sakura eventually reveals this to Shirou (who she admires, loves, and fantasizes about), seducing him when the pressure becomes too great. He's coincidentally in a weak moment, but he's still attracted to her and wants to help her. Disturbing parallels are drawn during the scene to the Shadow that Shirou has encountered during the Grail War. Not to mention his dreams all involve sex with her, and are shown parallel to the first ero scene in the route.

Again, creepy factor, though it also kicks off Shirou's and Sakura's sexual escapades (if such is the word). Unless you're playing Realta Nua, in which case it kicks off Sakura drinking Shirou's blood every so often.

Spoiler: Heaven's Feel, third scene

Sakura goes to Shirou again, and for the same reason. The Shadow parallels are understated this time, and the scene progresses more normally.

This scene gets rid of most of the creepy factor and shows signs of Sakura and Shirou developing a healthy sexual relationship. More fanservicey, I suppose, if "hey, they can have normal sex!" counts as fanservice.

Spoiler: Heaven's Feel, fourth scene

Sakura goes to Shirou, assuring him that she's actually doing fine, mana-wise, and he doesn't need to push himself to have sex with her. He asks anyway, and after a brief moment of surprise, she happily agrees.

The shortest, but probably the single most story-important ero scene in the game. Sakura finally realizes that Shirou isn't having sex with her simply out of obligation, but also because he genuinely loves her and finds her desirable. Considering all the crap she's gone through in life that's steadily driven her self-esteem into the gutter, this realization gives her a huge confidence boost.

Enough confidence, in fact, to resist Shinji's later attempt to guilt-trip and rape her (like he's been doing for years), leading to him trying to instead extort her into submitting, leading to her panicked, violent (lethal) reaction...catalyzing Sakura's transformation into Dark Sakura and everything that results from that. It was still worth it to have that son of a ***** die at the hands of the person who suffered most because of him...

And there you have it. In, I suspect, far more detail than you wanted.

Interesting, the disturbing/awkward scenes sound more like something you'd find in a European art flick, so you've done a pretty good job of convincing me. I would probably try the game out for myself if it weren't so damn long/a genre that I find really boring.