Tank Controls Are the Objectively Perfect Control Scheme

Should we bring back tank controls?


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dscross

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I'm getting older now as I'm nearly 40 so perhaps my opinion doesn't count for anything anymore but I never had a problem with tank controls and I never understood the problem younger gamers have with them.

My step son, he just can't understand them. What is so difficult about them?

I remember when I played the original resident evil for the first time, i didn't even think about it. Same for Grim Fandango and Escape from Monkey Island.

Granted when 3D first came in a lot of it was tank controls so maybe I didn't know any better moving from game where you just had to go from left to right. But come on, they aren't HARD to use.
 
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BrawlMan

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I'm getting older now as I'm nearly 40 so perhaps my opinion doesn't count for anything anymore but I never had a problem with tank controls and I never understood the problem younger gamers have with them.

My step son, he just can't understand them. What is so difficult about them?

I remember when I played the original resident evil for the first time, i didn't even think about it. Same for Grim Fandango and Escape from Monkey Island.

Granted when 3D first came in a lot of it was tank controls so maybe I didn't know any better moving from game where you just had to go from left to right. But come on, they aren't HARD to use.
At the end of the day, tank controls are and were a compromise to 3D movement. Once over-the-shoulder and free camera movement became possible and more mainstream, there was not much use for it anymore. I can handle tank controls, but if given the option, I will take OTS any day of the week. Younger generation while different, is understandable why they have so much trouble. They're used to modern control scheme. If they dislike it, or a lot have that much trouble, it does not bother me, nor do I care much. Tank controls are by gone era, and aside from some indie projects, I have no need for them.
 

dscross

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At the end of the day, tank controls are and were a compromise to 3D movement. Once over-the-shoulder and free camera movement became possible and more mainstream, there was not much use for it anymore. I can handle tank controls, but if given the option, I will take OTS any day of the week. Younger generation while different, is understandable why they have so much trouble. They're used to modern control scheme. If they dislike it, or a lot have that much trouble, it does not bother me, nor do I care much. Tank controls are by gone era, and aside from some indie projects, I have no need for them.
Newer controls are fine, but not for certain types of games. I used to like fixed camera angles because developers could make the backgrounds pre-rendered and therefore more detailed and arty. It worked for that type of game. Not saying bring them back everywhere but there is definitely still a place for that type of game. People just seem to want to switch their brains off now I feel and aren't open to everything. If games are an artform, we should welcome all types.
 

BrawlMan

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Newer controls are fine, but not for certain types of games. I used to like fixed camera angles because developers could make the backgrounds pre-rendered and therefore more detailed and arty.
Once again they were a compromise. Even Capcom knew this. Hence why RE4 came in to being. It was at that time fatiuge set in for most gamers, critics, and even Capcom and Mikami themselves. They wanted something new.

People just seem to want to switch their brains off now I feel and aren't open to everything.
There is some truth to that, but not "everyone". You're just seeing more people state their opinion, because of the web. Nothing more.
If games are an artform, we should welcome all types.
Yes, but art can and will be criticized. The AAA stopped caring long ago for fixed camera, aside from one or two minor exceptions. Your best bet is the indie circle, or start collecting old PS1 games.
 

dscross

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Once again they were a compromise. Even Capcom knew this. Hence why RE4 came in to being. It was at that time fatiuge set in for most gamers, critics, and even Capcom and Mikami themselves. They wanted something new.


There is some truth to that, but not "everyone". You're just seeing more people state their opinion, because of the web. Nothing more.

Yes, but art can and will be criticized. The AAA stopped caring long ago for fixed camera, aside from one or two minor exceptions. Your best bet is the indie circle, or start collecting old PS1 games.
Wasn't necessarily talking about capcom. Lots of games did it. It was well liked for a time. Not saying to do away with modern controls I'm just saying I think there is still a place for it.
 

BrawlMan

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Wasn't necessarily talking about capcom. Lots of games did it. It was well liked for a time. Not saying to do away with modern controls I'm just saying I think there is still a place for it.
The logic and facts still applies regardless of who I'm talking about. It can be Capcom, Konami, Ubisoft, or Square, it doesn't matter. They all pretty much had the same thought process, and jumped to the logical conclusion. Capcom one of the first to outright admit that they got tired of camera angles and wanted something new. The same was said for most gamers at the time before re4 came out.

I feel that there's a place for both control styles, but once again, the AAA side doesn't really care anymore. They stopped caring ever since the beginning of the 360 era with full camera controller over the shoulder. As I mentioned earlier, the only way you're going to get these styles of games again is if you go back into the past, or start looking at the indie game circuit. Those are your only options.
 

dscross

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The logic and facts still applies regardless of who I'm talking about. It can be Capcom, Konami, Ubisoft, or Square, it doesn't matter. They all pretty much had the same thought process, and jumped to the logical conclusion. Capcom one of the first to outright admit that they got tired of camera angles and wanted something new. The same was said for most gamers at the time before re4 came out.

I feel that there's a place for both control styles, but once again, the AAA side doesn't really care anymore. They stopped caring ever since the beginning of the 360 era with full camera controller over the shoulder. As I mentioned earlier, the only way you're going to get these styles of games again is if you go back into the past, or start looking at the indie game circuit. Those are your only options.
It sounds like you agree with me in terms of still having tank controls in certain games so unsure what we are disagreeing about.
 

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It sounds like you agree with me in terms of still having tank controls in certain games so unsure what we are disagreeing about.
All I'm doing is pointing out why the reason tank controls fell out of popularity, and why they are rarely ever seen anymore. Just because I don't mind tank control, doesn't mean I'm going immediately jump on and play the next game that fully does them. Don't matter to me, if it's from a big or small developer.

Just be happy with what you get and look at the Indie game circle. You got a few options.

 

wings012

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I'm getting older now as I'm nearly 40 so perhaps my opinion doesn't count for anything anymore but I never had a problem with tank controls and I never understood the problem younger gamers have with them.

My step son, he just can't understand them. What is so difficult about them?

I remember when I played the original resident evil for the first time, i didn't even think about it. Same for Grim Fandango and Escape from Monkey Island.

Granted when 3D first came in a lot of it was tank controls so maybe I didn't know any better moving from game where you just had to go from left to right. But come on, they aren't HARD to use.
I'm in my mid 30s so I've had a fair share of older games. I still hate tank controls with fixed camera. Like when your character is facing to the right, but then now left is up and right is down with respect to turning. It's a bit ass. I could never quite warm up to Code Veronica on the PS2.

But well, my parents never bought me remote controlled cars while growing up. I've literally owned none, and the amount I've played with one can probably be counted in minutes. Wonder if that might have something to do with it.
 

dscross

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I'm in my mid 30s so I've had a fair share of older games. I still hate tank controls with fixed camera. Like when your character is facing to the right, but then now left is up and right is down with respect to turning. It's a bit ass. I could never quite warm up to Code Veronica on the PS2.

But well, my parents never bought me remote controlled cars while growing up. I've literally owned none, and the amount I've played with one can probably be counted in minutes. Wonder if that might have something to do with it.
Yeah, I just can't understand the issue to be honest. I never even thought about it until a few modern game journalists started talking about it when I was a lot older. But I wouldn't have even batted an eyelid if no one had pointed it out. I always felt the fixed camera angles made it feel like you were controlling a character in a movie, which I enjoyed, and never even thought about the controls as I thought they worked with the medium.
 

Ezekiel

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People against fixed camera angles want every game with a story to be in the cramped over the shoulder perspective or first person view. (Except you, reader, relax!) Even if it screws up the gameplay (God of War). They're boring people. Wish there were more games now that used full 3D environments with fixed cameras. Technically, the camera in those types of games isn't even fixed, since it follows the player, just not always from behind or from inside their head. Those fully in-game rendered environments mesh better with the 3D character models and the lighting is more realistic than pre-rendered backgrounds.

I don't have a problem with the forward tilt of the stick moving the character forward and being able to move backwards by simply pulling back (rather than turning around). It's logical. Keeps you from turning around when you run into the next room.
 

dscross

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People against fixed camera angles want every game with a story to be in the cramped over-the-shoulder perspective or first person view. (Except you, reader, relax!) Even if it screws up the gameplay (God of War). They're boring people. Wish there were more games now that used full 3D environments with fixed cameras. Technically, the camera in those types of games isn't even fixed, since it follows the player, just not always from behind or from inside their head. Those fully in-game rendered environments mesh better with the 3D character models and the lighting is more realistic than pre-rendered backgrounds.

I don't have a problem with the forward tilt of the stick moving the character forward and being able to move backwards by simply pulling back (rather than turning around). It's logical. Keeps you from turning around when you run into the next room.
I agree with you about this. Over the shoulder, perspective and first-person view seem to have become the norm now. This is fine for a lot of games, but I kind also like some games where it looks like it's shot like a movie and you can see different views. I would prefer they weren't relegated to indie developers only.
 
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I would prefer they weren't relegated to indie developers only.
AAA doesn't care. Either due to lack of talent, lack of effort, or believing these games won't make money in the entire universe!

If every single AAA developer started doing camera angles, the same problems would apply in Sturgeon's Law. Most would do it bad, with only a few doing it good. I know that is not what you're wishing, but we all know that's what is going to happen. Don't worry about lamenting, and focus more on what is there and actually good.

Speaking of camera angles, Capcom originally tried doing this for RE2Remake (which could be switchable at any time as a selling point), but felt since everything was done so well, they didn't need selling points. I know it "disappointed" some "true survival horror fans", but I can see where Capcom was coming from. The OTS perspective works to the game's benefit, and does not make it any less survival horror. The game is still challenging, and becomes even more so on Hardcore. I do think though they should have kept it in as an option, or a bonus mode. Capcom would have even more people playing.

 

dscross

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AAA doesn't care. Either due to lack of talent, lack of effort, or believing these games won't make money in the entire universe!

If every single AAA developer started doing camera angles, the same problems would apply in Sturgeon's Law. Most would do it bad, with only a few doing it good. I know that is not what you're wishing, but we all know that's what is going to happen. Don't worry about lamenting, and focus more on what is there and actually good.

Speaking of camera angles, Capcom originally tried doing this for RE2Remake (which could be switchable at any time as a selling point), but felt since everything was done so well, they didn't need selling points. I know it "disappointed" some "true survival horror fans", but I can see where Capcom was coming from. The OTS perspective works to the game's benefit, and does not make it any less survival horror. The game is still challenging, and becomes even more so on Hardcore. I do think though they should have kept it in as an option, or a bonus mode. Capcom would have even more people playing.

I agree with you, but I do think it's a shame because I think part of what made some early 3D games special and remembered so fondly was because of fixed camera angles. FF7 (and other early 3D FFs) people love, for example. People remember those, in part, because of the world-building. It was brought to life and etched in people's memories by the way the backgrounds were made. FF didn't have tank controls though, I realise.
 
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Ezekiel

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It's not fine. I know you're not interested in having a real debate about the game, but I'm posting this again anyway.

God of War

Started the save file in December 2018, reached the credits in February 2022.

2/5

Hate what this game represents.

Force a camera perspective PURELY because it's the trend. The designers can claim it was for cinematic purposes all they want, but they used the same kind of language in God of War III interviews when talking about the camera angles, which were highly cinematic without being obtrusive or so limiting. There's nothing really impressive about telling a CG story with a single shot. It makes for boring photography. The camera is always so close to the character and can never pull out much to emphasize the scale of the level or setpiece. Having such a limited field of view that doesn't capture the full player character means no jumping, which means fewer ways to evade, which means more simplistic, monotonous combat, not to mention more basic level design. Stop using the interconnected world design to claim the level design is good. Most individual areas have very little going on. The camera also limits the kinds of action setpieces you can have. They're still there, but you have far less control over them than you used to, usually just button prompts on screen as the character you can't control plays out the cutscene. Jesus, the field of view is so bad, I can't emphasize it enough. That you need triangular warning prompts to know what's happening around you really says it all, doesn't it? The dodge button is on the face of the controller, and you're dodging so much that you can't really keep your thumb on the camera stick, so you mostly just push it into the most convenient position you can and then wait as the more pressing danger leaves the screen again. Rapidly back and forth from the Cross button to the stick. Massive downgrade.

The combat becomes more boring and limiting after you get the other weapons, because then it turns into a color match game where the fire weapon is needed for the ice enemies and the other weapon is needed for the fire enemies. There should have been one or two more weapons, because there really isn't enough going on in the combat to carry the game for as long as it goes. Same giant troll type enemies over and over, with the same execution animations again and again. I might be mistaken, but I think there's only three types of bosses: the aforementioned giants, the villain Baldur and the Valkyries. The few others are more like interactive cutscenes.

Why have a companion if you must press Square to make him shoot? I rarely used the arrows in combat, because I found it so unnatural to prompt a basic action that he should have been performing on his own that I simply forgot I had him.

The old God of War games placed the save points and the health and magic chests intelligently. There were always chests before a boss or difficult part and no auto-checkpoints throughout the difficult part. In the reboot, you always restart from the latest auto-checkpoint with full health, so it doesn't really matter. It feels cheap. You are incentivized to kill yourself for full health from the latest mini-checkpoint. First thing they might do when they face off against the second level of a boss is just kill themselves or pause and load from the checkpoint. It destroys any potential for a real... gameplay loop and makes sections of the game feel so insular rather than progressive.

The game has some trash puzzles, mostly involving the axe throw and sometimes the kid's arrows. At one point, I gave up on the right strategy because my aim with the arrows wasn't precise enough and then found out when I played again the next day that what I had tried initially was correct. Which is another reason God of War was better before the action buttons were moved to the shoulders and it became about controlling the camera. God of War was conceived when aiming was still seen as secondary in most games, rightfully so. How many of those early 3D action and horror games had auto-aim or fixed camera angles? Damn analog sticks.

The villain, Baldur, seems more like white trash than a character from Norse mythology. The dialogue all too often sounds real world rather than mythical, fitting so poorly in a place so fantastic. Turning God of War of all things into a walk and talk was a terrible idea because of the type of story that it is. You can't treat Clash of the Titans like serious drama and have the characters making these kinds of quips and having this idle everyday talk. It will just come off as pretentious. Which is what this reboot is. Super pretentious. They have gods talking without any kind of grandeur or godliness, acting like regular folk made immortal. Impossible to take seriously.

I know people were tired of the old Kratos. Instead of turning him into something he just isn't and could never be, they should have replaced him. Written a new protagonist with his or her own weapons and mechanics. They should have kept the fixed cinematic camera angles and used cutscenes (that actually cut away) sparingly, but come up with a new combat system. They should have also kept the gore, brutality and titties instead of pretending their game has to be taken seriously by art snobs. They shouldn't have built their game with the kinds of production values and photorealistic graphics whose costs so severely limit the actual game part of it, particularly the enemy variety.
 
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Started the save file in December 2018, reached the credits in February 2022.
Started in April the week it came out. Finished about 2 weeks later. Came back for a new game plus run the moment it launched in August, if I remember correctly, that same year.

The combat becomes more boring and limiting after you get the other weapons, because then it turns into a color match game where the fire weapon is needed for the ice enemies and the other weapon is needed for the fire enemies.
And yet vanilla DmC still did this the worst. I would not have mined one more weapon, but it works for me fine. It was just fun playing with the Blades again.

Why have a companion if you must press Square to make him shoot? I rarely used the arrows in combat, because I found it so unnatural to prompt a basic action that he should have been performing on his own that I simply forgot I had him.
Atreus is awesome. He's actually one of my favorite companion characters and video games. He is very helpful and useful. Especially when you have to stun enemies and you can do tag combos with him. Just a heads up, I didn't go with the Dark Souls control style. I went classic style and the shoot button became R2. It works so much better.