Being genuine for a moment here: I think i miss fixed camera angles more, than i miss tank controls specifically. I wish someone would make another atmospheric horror game utilizing them.
Tank Controls Are the Objectively Perfect Control Scheme
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Games should be fair. Getting my face eaten off by something my character (and by extension, I) should have been able to see, but could not because of the camera angle, is not fair.
1. The games with free camera are still allowed to exist.
2. IDC about 100% "fairness" in single player games. Technically a player is often given unfair advantage already, thanks to nerfed AI.
I'd take couple of extra deaths if it'd meant more suspense and interesting camera shots.
Those are still tank controls. In both games, pushing the left button doesn't make the character move left. It makes the character turn left. Then you push forward to make them move forward. The difference is that, in tomb raider, re4, and god hand, the camera moves with your character. In RE1, it doesn't, because the camera is fixed. But the characters themselves still control the same. Thus, both are tank controls.
But you responding to my topic in my thread
In any case, those games are actually fantastic. I love deadspace 2. They're just not the best in their respective genres. The level design in REmake is some of the best in the entire medium, and the atmosphere is the pinnacle of the entire franchise. No game has approached the narrative quality of SH2. The pacing in RE4, from an action game play perspective, is perfect. Almost every encounter in the entire game is iconic and memorable. Who can say the same for Random Guy From GTA 5? Or Big Robot from Mass Effect 2? Or a random segment if Gears of War that no ones played in 15 years?
Scientifically speaking, they are, as you can see in this graph:
30 Minute video to be uploaded to youtube soon
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I think this is an interesting point. How do you think one would have fixed camera angles without tank controls? Wouldn't the game be either too easy, or not work well?
I do genuinely miss some of the frankly genius fixed camera angles we would get form classic horror games. I think something was lost when we did away with them, and modern horror games haven't been able to easily get it back.
Like the use of moving shadows in re1, or the window shot, where it looks like you're character is being watched from the outside.
Or the way SH2 focused your attention onto mary's dress with the manequin in the middle of the room, lit up with the flashlight, creating a focal point. There's a thoughtfulness to the way that things were framed, that disappeared when the camera became easier to control.
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In your opinion. Everyone's got a similar or different opinion. Welcome to life.
I admit it was amazing for the time (played and borrowed from a friend back in the day) and is in certain aspects, but other games have come and gone, and made similar impacts. I always prefered 3 any way. Not SH2's fault, but nearly every SH game after 3&4 tried to copy 2's twists or monsters verbatim or in some fashion that 2 does not come off as unique anymore.
I agree, but I still prefer REmake2. Also, that liquid nitrogen section can still go fuck itself. Hence when I said REmake perfected the tank controls. There is not much you go afterward, and even Shinji and Capcom knew it. Hence why RE4 went through so many revisions and builds. DMC1 was gonna be RE4 originally.
In your opinion. I actually dislike the pacing in RE4, and the game just drags late in the castle and when you get to the island. Evil Within 2 has the perfect pacing for me.
When you make silly statements 100% unironically such as
You lose my attention. I'm assuming that was supposed to be sarcasm, but I figured you're being 100% serious.
I would not know because I am not big on Mass Effect, and I hate Gears of War and GTA5. But I am sure if asked fans of either franchises they will come up with a whole bunch of rebuttals and their own examples.
Yes, but some opinions are right, and some are wrong.
That is, sadly, the fate of all flawless masterpieces. Many people have unsuccessfully copied the masterpiece narrative and monster designs of silent hill 2. Meanwhile, no one is attempting to copy The Evil Within, or Deadspace (not even their own sequels).
I mean, by that logic, we should stop making puzzle adventure games, since OoT perfected the formula. We should stop making soulsborne games, since dark souls 1 and blooborne perfected the genre they themselves created. Why make any more metroidvanias, since hollow knight exists? It's just a control scheme. It doesn't have to be retired because REmake was the perfect resident evil game (factually speaking).
And there's nothing wrong with having a different opinion, even if I disagree. A lot of times people are not wrong or right for having a different opinion. I want it that way. Makes life more interesting. If everyone had the same opinion, it'd be boring. I don't want everyone sharing the same opinion as me. I don't care for mindless sheep parroting the same opinions, because of some sarcastic guy on the internet.
You say that like it's a bad thing. I don't care if everyone tried to copy it or not. If anything, I considered a good thing, because it makes them all the more unique and special. Besides, I found Evil Within games (more so EW2) to be better Resident Evil sequels than 4, 5, 6, & 7. They also double as better Silent Hills games han the sequels made after 3. Deal with it.
Actually, they can stop the souls born games, because there is already too many already. I don't care much for the genre, but even other people on this site are getting tired of them. As far as adventure games with puzzles, they're always going to be there, but that's a different niche that's fulfilled. Thankfully, Steam and Indie studios are the ones that's keeping it going. Like I said before, the best you're going to get is people doing throwbacks on steam. There was one game that tried to do the old school survival horror tank controls, and for what I remember, the game was horrible. They were just hoping to bank on nostalgia and nothing else. If you want traditional tank controls, you're going to be waiting for a long time. I prefer REmake2 to over Remake. I'm bigger fan of Leon and Claire. I do love Jill Valentine though. Both games are the best at what they do.
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It's a control scheme born out of necessity, from mid-'90s games that used pre-rendered backgrounds and fixed camera angles as a way to hide poor framerates and input responsiveness, and/or bypass hardware limitations. Particularly favored in the then-fledgling survival horror genre, where poor framerates and input response and the fake difficulty wrought from it, were rationalized by quasi-sufferers of vidya Stockholm syndrome as somehow immersive.
"Fans" of it come in two flavors: tongue in cheek trolling about it claiming it to be a superior control scheme, or people whose genuine fanaticism for it approaches cult-like levels and won't be persuaded otherwise.
...by introducing quick-look and over-the-shoulder view with mouse/analog stick aim, which effectively just gave it more cumbersome and less responsive third-person shooter mechanics that required more inputs than otherwise necessary.
No, obviously there should be a couple QTEs you need to succeed at after you've selected the place to move to really bring out the gameplay.
The Medium just came out this year.
Ok I think now it's gotten to the point ofThose are still tank controls. In both games, pushing the left button doesn't make the character move left. It makes the character turn left. Then you push forward to make them move forward. The difference is that, in tomb raider, re4, and god hand, the camera moves with your character. In RE1, it doesn't, because the camera is fixed. But the characters themselves still control the same. Thus, both are tank controls.
But you responding to my topic in my thread
In any case, those games are actually fantastic. I love deadspace 2. They're just not the best in their respective genres. The level design in REmake is some of the best in the entire medium, and the atmosphere is the pinnacle of the entire franchise. No game has approached the narrative quality of SH2. The pacing in RE4, from an action game play perspective, is perfect. Almost every encounter in the entire game is iconic and memorable. Who can say the same for Random Guy From GTA 5? Or Big Robot from Mass Effect 2? Or a random segment if Gears of War that no ones played in 15 years?
Scientifically speaking, they are, as you can see in this graph:
View attachment 3425
30 Minute video to be uploaded to youtube soon
Tank controls are also irrespective of the quality of other aspects of a game like story, atmosphere, characters, even playability depending on the genre.
Having said that, fixed camera angles with tank controls legitimately compliment each other often exceptionally well though, as you've shown with the other post above.
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So I watched those videos, all three of them which are very long so it took me a while, mainly I just want to say thanks because he talks about quite a few games I didn't know about and that now I'll keep my eye out for because lately I'm really into that kind off game lately, I disagree with a lot of what he says, particularly that he uses the term Survival Horror & RE: Clones interchangeably which is weird, because like a lot of the games he talked about are wildly different from each other, and it's very arbitrary like he considers Koudelka a true survival horror and therefore an RE clone, even though the game is very different from RE, also regarding that RPG thing a better statement to make would've been that Koudelka does a much better job of fusing Survival Horror & RPG than Parasite Eve rather than saying one is that and the other isn't.
In any case I don't really agree that their value is only as throwback, like, maybe it's because I didn't really grow up with those kinds of games other than Resident Evil because my brother has most of them, and Eternal Darkness which I think was the only other horror game on Gamecube, pretty sure it was just Resident Evil & Eternal Darkness, but playing that kind of stuff now actually feels completely different experience to what I'm used to and while it's clunky and weird it also feels new and fresh, and I think that if introduced to new audiences, like the kind that haven't ever played a game like this in their life it could potentially be a massive hit, sort off how Dark Souls revitalized the hard as nails Dungeon Crawler and could potentially lead to a lot of new ideas, but we'll never know unless someone tries.
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I have a nygacn and I did only one thing it works fine so far has it for quite sometime it can be used for pc but I use it for ps3 just super glue the joystick ball
Technically tanks can turn while moving by adjusting speed independently on each track.I just gotta say that tank controls are when you have to stop to turn the character (like the old Tomb Raiders) because that's how tanks control. RE1 does not have tank controls.
I feel like we shouldn't have to rely on having limited garbage controls to make the game scary or more tense, just design and make the game better yo.
Anyway I hate tank controls, but mostly in the context of fixed camera games. Cause I end up confusing my directions relative to the character. I would much prefer those games to have some sort of free run mode, but maybe you have to stop to aim or something. In games like RE4, since my camera is always behind my character I won't ever get mixed up.
There are ways to limit the player's mobility with more contemporary control schemes, while having the tension of the older games. Allow the player to strafe and backpedal, but have it be a lot slower than just running forwards. I recall Dead Space 1 being like this. You couldn't just kite everything, if you needed to get the hell out then you better actually turn 180 degrees and leg it.
Anyway I hate tank controls, but mostly in the context of fixed camera games. Cause I end up confusing my directions relative to the character. I would much prefer those games to have some sort of free run mode, but maybe you have to stop to aim or something. In games like RE4, since my camera is always behind my character I won't ever get mixed up.
There are ways to limit the player's mobility with more contemporary control schemes, while having the tension of the older games. Allow the player to strafe and backpedal, but have it be a lot slower than just running forwards. I recall Dead Space 1 being like this. You couldn't just kite everything, if you needed to get the hell out then you better actually turn 180 degrees and leg it.