Target Aus Pulls GTA V From Shelves, For Its "Violence Against Women" - Update

[JarinArenos]

if these characters are aimed at straight white males, how come gaming is something enjoyed by people of almost all ages in almost all countries?

Because that's basically all that exists? My way or don't play? Sounds kinda selfish, honestly.

 

[Product Placement]

Being someone who has yet to play GTA5 (waiting for the PC version), what exactly is it about this game that's so specifically violent towards women, when we're talking about a game that gives you the freedom to go and beat up whoever the hell you feel like beating up?

 

[Tohuvabohu]

Being someone who has yet to play GTA5 (waiting for the PC version), what exactly is it about this game that's so specifically violent towards women, when we're talking about a game that gives you the freedom to go and beat up whoever the hell you feel like beating up?

As far as the story goes, the things the game puts you through to complete missions, almost absolutely nothing.

Beyond that, when in free-roam, the game is equal opportunity all around.

 

[Product Placement]

Being someone who has yet to play GTA5 (waiting for the PC version), what exactly is it about this game that's so specifically violent towards women, when we're talking about a game that gives you the freedom to go and beat up whoever the hell you feel like beating up?

As far as the story goes, the things the game puts you through to complete missions, almost absolutely nothing.

Beyond that, when in free-roam, the game is equal opportunity all around.

That's pretty much what I was imagining.

It's funny though, that I kinda remember a similar argument popping up for GTA3, when someone realized that you could hire a prostitute, sleep with her (which gave you a health up) and then kill her afterwards, which gave you back the money that you paid for her.

It wasn't that the designers intentionally made the game to be a hooker murdering simulator, though. All people dropped money when they were killed. It just came with the territory that when you give players the freedom to do whatever they wanted, it resulted in someone being disturbing enough to come to this conclusion.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

1 store pulled the product... then 2 stores... then a movement of feminists in norway wants to do the same, oh but go ahead, keep saying im just talking nonsense

You still haven't demonstrated anything but nonsense.

what is there to demostrate? the fact this exists is proof of what im saying

not only they dont oppose, anita herself argued publishers should enforce censorship on devs, but go ahead, keep saying im talking nonsense

Shifting the goalposts because your case was so bad.

the hell are you talking about?

just out of curiosity, what large group of people you think im talking about?

You've previously established "people like her" are "feminists" and "SJWs."

i never dragged feminists into this, i mentioned a group of feminists are tyring to do the same in norway because... well A GROUP OF FEMINISTS ARE TRYING TO DO THE SAME IN NORWAY, it doesnt get more simple than that, just because there are a bunch of stupid feminists in norway doesn mean every feminist is stupid

"people like her": people who advoce for censorship to push their political goals, the kind of person id call a social justice warrior

again implying im white...

Only if you don't mind lying. Which, evidently, you don't.

http://imgur.com/ZoHgHPw

i assume you will never imply im white again

im absolutely sick and tired of this attitude

"oh you dont like social justice you must be a white straight male"

i said it would be very nice if these extremist encouraged the creation of "inclusive" games, instead of demanding the censorship of games they dont consider inclusive, maybe i wouldnt play the game, but im not agaisnt the fact it exists

Excpet previously you've whined about attempts to be inclusive, so I don't believe you. Nor should anyone with pattern recognition.

when did i whine about inclusivity? if the dev WANTS to make an "inclusive game"that his/her own damn business, if the devs is FORCED or SHAMED into being inclusive, then theres a problem

is the world full of straight white males?

That would be relevant except the largest consumer markets are in three regions, two of them primarily white. I know you claimed they're played everywhere, but that doesn't make them a target audience. And in the end, that's all I said. Not that you were white, or that the entire audience was white. But that would require honestly addressing a point without theatrics.

what makes you think they are not the target audience? just because you say so? do you think someone of a different race isnt able to enjoy a video game with a white game protagonist? thats the dumbest thing ive heard, get your facts straight and stop stop speaking in the name of non-whites

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

if these characters are aimed at straight white males, how come gaming is something enjoyed by people of almost all ages in almost all countries?

Because that's basically all that exists? My way or don't play? Sounds kinda selfish, honestly.

have you actually asked non-whites if they care even in the slightest?

i can assure you nobody ive met in ym life that plays video games has cared about something so utterly pointless as the race of the blob of polygons on the screen

 

[JarinArenos]

if these characters are aimed at straight white males, how come gaming is something enjoyed by people of almost all ages in almost all countries?

Because that's basically all that exists? My way or don't play? Sounds kinda selfish, honestly.

have you actually asked non-whites if they care even in the slightest?

i can assure you nobody ive met in ym life that plays video games has cared about something so utterly pointless as the race of the blob of polygons on the screen

... did you just claim that every person complaining about representation of gender or race is a straight white male?

Also, if you don't care, why are you participating in all these arguments?

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

if these characters are aimed at straight white males, how come gaming is something enjoyed by people of almost all ages in almost all countries?

Because that's basically all that exists? My way or don't play? Sounds kinda selfish, honestly.

have you actually asked non-whites if they care even in the slightest?

i can assure you nobody ive met in ym life that plays video games has cared about something so utterly pointless as the race of the blob of polygons on the screen

... did you just claim that every person complaining about representation of gender or race is a straight white male?

Also, if you don't care, why are you participating in all these arguments?

not at all

im just saying, before doing something in the name of X people, why not ask X people first?

if #notyourshield proved anythign is that you should let people talk for themselves, do not claim to represent an entire group of people, unless they elected you to do so or something

also just for the laughs

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzMfLArCQAA4s3D.png:large

one is a pro-inclusvity event, the other, a bunch of gamers playing a bunch of games

 

[JarinArenos]

not at all

im just saying, before doing something in the name of X people, why not ask X people first?

if #notyourshield proved anythign is that you should let people talk for themselves, do not claim to represent an entire group of people, unless they elected you to do so or something

also just for the laughs

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzMfLArCQAA4s3D.png:large

one is a pro-inclusvity event, the other, a bunch of gamers playing a bunch of games

You know, the avatar really should have tipped me off that logical discussion wasn't going to happen here. Here, let me spell it out for you. Literally every single non-white-male gamer I know has complained about this; many on a regular basis. How many do you know personally? Not through some hashtag campaign of questionable[footnote]edit: know what, no... the origins don't matter. I'm not going to derail into legitimacy arguments here. They can have their opinions. Just like the NBRA doesn't change the heavily racist politics of the US Republican party[/footnote] origins.

Also, the irony of something called #notyourshield being used as a constant shield against discussion is staggering.

 

[Something Amyss]

what is there to demostrate? the fact this exists is proof of what im saying

No, it really isn't.

"people like her": people who advoce for censorship to push their political goals, the kind of person id call a social justice warrior

And again, now that you're talking social justice warriors, you're not helping your argument any.

http://imgur.com/ZoHgHPw

i assume you will never imply im white again

I never implied it in the first place. I've said multiple time that your race is irrelevant.

But you know the worst thing about that? That picture doesn't even prove your race, so even if that was my argument (which, for likely the five hundredth time, it's not), then you wouldn't have made a case against it. At best, you've proven you have access to a book.

im absolutely sick and tired of this attitude

Since the attitude is one you're literally making up, it's completely in your power to just stop making it up.

"oh you dont like social justice you must be a white straight male"

Except, you know, I never said that. Putting it in quotes doesn't make it true, it just means that you're trying to pretend I said something I didn't.

when did i whine about inclusivity? if the dev WANTS to make an "inclusive game"that his/her own damn business, if the devs is FORCED or SHAMED into being inclusive, then theres a problem

A shame you haven't been consistent there, and as I've mentioned, been silent on games where the opposite has happened.

what makes you think they are not the target audience?

I said it didn't make them one. Why do you have to change my words on virtually every point?

just because you say so? do you think someone of a different race isnt able to enjoy a video game with a white game protagonist? thats the dumbest thing ive heard, get your facts straight and stop stop speaking in the name of non-whites

I can't help but notice you made something up and then called it the dumbest thing you've ever heard. Don't rant at me for it. You made it up.

if #notyourshield proved anythign is that you should let people talk for themselves, do not claim to represent an entire group of people, unless they elected you to do so or something

If #totallyyourshield proved anything, it's that you can cherry pick any group of people. But you keep doing this "why not ask X people?" and then making accusations. Now you want people to speak for themselves. Except when people speak out contrary to you, it evidently doesn't count. Not to mention, you will completely misrepresent people who disagree.

 

[Dizchu]

Ultimately it is Target's choice whether or not they want to stock certain items.

However, the tactics used to get them to stop stocking it were pathetic. I don't like the Transformers films and they offend me on pretty much every level imaginable, however I'm not gonna cry to stores distributing it "wahh it has racist stereotypes and poor representation of women, wahh" and get them to pull it from shelves.

It's this kind of arrogance and entitlement that is giving social justice such a bad name. I wish I could speak to the delusional individual(s) that decided this was a good idea. I want them to know that what they're doing is the same as calling Harry Potter or Pokemon "demonic".

Instead of having a left/right political spectrum can we just assign a new axis for complete imbeciles like these? Religious fanatics, hardcore feminists, social justice saboteurs, anyone that takes Alex Jones seriously... they're all the same really.

 

[Metalix Knightmare]

It still amuses me to see Gamergaters getting pissed off by this.

"We use letter writing campaigns to influence the actions of news outlets hardly any of us frequented but which offended us with their sensibilities?"
"Whoo, yeah! Consumer power baby! I am Gamer, hear me type!"

"A bunch of busybody think-of-the-children types used a letter writing campaign to influence the actions of a business stocking a product hardly any of them were going to buy but which offended their sensibilities?"
"WHOA! Whoa. Can of worms, man! Dangerous precedent right there! Why, it's practically censorship! Domestic terrorism even!"

If you can't see a difference between letterwriting campaigns against yellow journalism and websites that insult their own readers, and getting products pulled from shelves because they might offend someone, then that's your problem.

 

[Zhukov]

It still amuses me to see Gamergaters getting pissed off by this.

"We use letter writing campaigns to influence the actions of news outlets hardly any of us frequented but which offended us with their sensibilities?"
"Whoo, yeah! Consumer power baby! I am Gamer, hear me type!"

"A bunch of busybody think-of-the-children types used a letter writing campaign to influence the actions of a business stocking a product hardly any of them were going to buy but which offended their sensibilities?"
"WHOA! Whoa. Can of worms, man! Dangerous precedent right there! Why, it's practically censorship! Domestic terrorism even!"

If you can't see a difference between letterwriting campaigns against yellow journalism and websites that insult their own readers, and getting products pulled from shelves because they might offend someone, then that's your problem.

Ohhhh, goody. Another bite.

I see no difference because there is no difference.

In both instances a business is being pressured to alter its output because people are offended by something. You said it right there: "... websites that insult their own readers..." So, websites that offended you with their editorial content? Can't have that! Shut them down! Should they perhaps "pull" those Gamers-are-Dead articles from their virtual "shelves"? Should they discontinue writing such articles do you think? Because I've seen plenty of calls for that.

But then someone else on the planet takes identical action against a game and suddenly, outrage! How dare they?!

"Gamergate: It's okay when we do it!"

 

[blackrave]

It's this kind of arrogance and entitlement that is giving social justice such a bad name.

Don't forget hypocrisy.
That is my personal Nr.1 issue with SJFs

I wish I could speak to the delusional individual(s) that decided this was a good idea. I want them to know that what they're doing is the same as calling Harry Potter or Pokemon "demonic".

You really think they are delusional?
I know, I know, Hanlon's razor, but I can't believe someone in position of some sort of power would listen to someone who is ignorant on said thing.
But then again maybe my paranoid brain tend to underestimate people's stupidity :/

Instead of having a left/right political spectrum can we just assign a new axis for complete imbeciles like these? Religious fanatics, hardcore feminists, social justice saboteurs, anyone that takes Alex Jones seriously... they're all the same really.

Are you suggesting implementing 2D political alignment system?
So if we consider x axis to be political leaning, then what y axis may be?
Fanaticism? Tolerance?
Or even better why not have 3D alignment graph?

 

[Dizchu]

Ohhhh, goody. Another bite.

I see no difference because there is no difference.

In both instances a business is being pressured to alter its output because people are offended by something. You said it right there: "... websites that insult their own readers..." So, websites that offended you with their editorial content? Can't have that! Shut them down! Should they perhaps "pull" those Gamers-are-Dead articles from their virtual "shelves"? Should they discontinue writing such articles do you think? Because I've seen plenty of calls for that.

But then someone else on the planet takes identical action against a game and suddenly, outrage! How dare they?!

"Gamergate: It's okay when we do it!"

I'm not the biggest fan of mass-letter writing to offending sites (unless the circumstances are particularly severe, say there's hate speech for instance), however I don't think the two campaigns are identical.

When it comes to Gamergate, they sent letters to advertisers because writers were saying offensive things. "Bring back bullying", "I can't stand these hood men", "you've made your bed now get f*cked in it". These are supposedly "professionals" and they are lashing out at people, encouraging doxxing etc. Now to be fair I think at least some of them are just being snarky assholes rather than actually encouraging harm.

GTA V is a game that has a huge audience, criticisms come primarily from fanatical, "authoritarian" right wingers and left wingers (though they have mostly come from the right). Studies have shown over and over again that violent video games do not encourage real-life violence. Gamergate isn't comparable because they've criticised people that actually encouraged harm (though chances are they were being sarcastic, the point is they actually said things that can be considered hostile). The example of GTA V being withdrawn from shelves is more directly comparable to Catholics getting upset at His Dark Materials or Muslims getting upset at The Satanic Verses (though I think we can all be thankful that insane Tumblr users likely won't behead publishers in the streets).

 

[Zhukov]

When it comes to Gamergate, they sent letters to advertisers because writers were saying offensive things.

Uh huh.

And the petitioners did their thing because GTA5 depicted offensive things.

Other people getting offended: "Hey, don't like it, don't buy it! Grow a thicker skin!"

We get offended: "STOP THE FUCKING PRESSES! Gamers aren't dead! The fire rises!"

 

[Dizchu]

Uh huh.

And the petitioners did their thing because GTA5 depicted offensive things.

Other people getting offended: "Hey, don't like it, don't buy it! Grow a thicker skin!"

We get offended: "STOP THE FUCKING PRESSES! Gamers aren't dead! The fire rises!"

Oh I don't disagree with you that Gamergate overreacted, but I think the distinction here is that GTA V's "misogyny" or "encouragement of violence" is very open to interpretation, while journalists encouraging the bullying and harassment of their critics is done in spite no matter how you interpret it.

Personally I think GTA V getting withdrawn from shelves is an achievement. Many great works have been outright banned in the past (Monty Python's Life of Brian, anyone?) Australians wishing to purchase it can probably find it online or at other retailers. However the point I'm uncomfortable with is the comparison between a game that's restricted for sale to adults only and the actions of individuals on public forums/social media like Twitter that directly encourages resentment and hostility.

 

[wildstyle96]

http://www.dailylife.com.au/life-and-love/real-life/why-i-petitioned-to-have-grand-theft-auto-v-removed-from-target-20141207-1224p7.html

She also believes video games are proven to make people more violent and uses trolls and harassers as evidence as well as some study.

Next up she plans to get the game banned at Big W and Woolworths. smh v.v

 

[ugeine]

Does anyone actually interact with the prostitutes in Grand Theft Auto? Why are they there in the first place? These days I swear that Rockstar are just trying to garner the type of notoriety that games like Manhunt et al used to have back in the day.

If they removed sex workers from the game, people wouldn't be able to complain about sexualised violence towards women, and it wouldn't affect the gameplay one iota.