Target Aus Pulls GTA V From Shelves, For Its "Violence Against Women" - Update

[Bat Vader]

no of course im not implying she did this it would be ridiculous

So when you said THAT PERSON, you meant someone different this time?

That would be convenient.

no i did mean her, my point was that, while anita didnt get GTA5 banned, people who think like her did

People who think like you include fucking Nazi's like KoP! This is such a worthless fucking argument.

KoP probably doesnt think like me when it comes to race and nazis, but he probably thinks like me when it comes to video games, probably, i havent asked him personally and i dont follow him

the people i described think pretty much like anita when it comes to video games, and there is where i find the irony, "we wont take your games", and yet people like her are getting games pulled from stores

were you trying to prove something? because i think you missed the point

He thinks like you do about the dreaded SJW, like a reactionary.

And as one of those people who "think like Anita," I can assure you I am entirely against this whole petition. It's idiotic and misinformed. This doesn't change my stance on political issues, this doesn't change my stance on games or gaming culture.

then you dont fucking think like anita, anita legitimately believes devs should me made to stop makign games like GTA5

again you keep missing the point

I think devs should stop making games like GTA 5 of their own volition, because they are terrible. That is, at worst, what I've heard Anita has said.

Edit: your edit is an example of her saying just that.

Ah yes....the whole "I think something is terrible therefore it should not exist" argument that is common among many censorship advocates.

Just because you don't like GTA and think it's a terrible series doesn't mean everyone else shares the same sentiment.In fact good luck convincing Rockstar to stop making games for a series that generates millions of dollars for them on release,I'm sure they'll laugh at the notion.

For me to not hold the stance that GTA ought to not exist in its current form would be intellectual cowardice on my part. I think that it is uncreative, Nihilistic, somewhat misogynistic, misanthropic, and that it is a horrible trendsetter in game design.

And I don't care how much money it makes. I don't care how invested my capitalist overlords are in its success. Fuck them. If they will let profits stand in the way of morals and good game design, then they are exactly the kind of people I have no patience for.

Uh....GTA is a game series about crime and being a criminal.The series has never pretended to be anything but.Morals?In a GTA game?Seriously.....

Niko Bellic in GTA IV had morals. Players didn't have to abide by his morals but he did have them. It's why I like Niko the most out of all the GTA protagonists.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

no of course im not implying she did this it would be ridiculous

So when you said THAT PERSON, you meant someone different this time?

That would be convenient.

no i did mean her, my point was that, while anita didnt get GTA5 banned, people who think like her did

People who think like you include fucking Nazi's like KoP! This is such a worthless fucking argument.

KoP probably doesnt think like me when it comes to race and nazis, but he probably thinks like me when it comes to video games, probably, i havent asked him personally and i dont follow him

the people i described think pretty much like anita when it comes to video games, and there is where i find the irony, "we wont take your games", and yet people like her are getting games pulled from stores

were you trying to prove something? because i think you missed the point

He thinks like you do about the dreaded SJW, like a reactionary.

And as one of those people who "think like Anita," I can assure you I am entirely against this whole petition. It's idiotic and misinformed. This doesn't change my stance on political issues, this doesn't change my stance on games or gaming culture.

then you dont fucking think like anita, anita legitimately believes devs should me made to stop makign games like GTA5

again you keep missing the point

I think devs should stop making games like GTA 5 of their own volition, because they are terrible. That is, at worst, what I've heard Anita has said.

Edit: your edit is an example of her saying just that.

not really she wants game publishers to enforce censorship

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/sarkeesian-dubbed-video-game-avenger-on-striking-bloomberg-businessweek-cover/0141950

is this what you want?

edit: so thats what you want? very well, you do think like her and you are pro-censorship

What's wrong with a woman breaking out of the tower herself instead of getting rescued?

Also, can all the Pro-GG and anti-GG people take their arguments into the GG threads in R&P please?

christ that isnt the damn problem, she wants publishers to enforce censorship on devs, that IS the problem, and her idea isnt even that original, is like playing oblivion with a female character, no wait, is like playing the FIRST 20 minutes of oblivion with a female character

I kind of agree with her somewhat but at the same time game developers have pretty much moved away from that stuff. Bioware has almost always had homosexual, lesbian, and bisexual romances in their games and lets players play either a male or female protagonist. I will admit I do dislike the macho manly types. I am a male and I find those types of protagonists stupid which is why I love playing as rogues and mages. Weaker characters that make up for it with finesse, guile, and intelligence.

I dislike zero tolerance policies. They are too restrictive and stifle creativity. If a developer wants to make a sexist, homophobic, racist game I say they have that right but they should not be surprised if it doesn't sell well or at all.

if the dev wants to have X character is fine, if the devs is FORCED to not include X character, is wrong

even macho men and sexy characters have a right to exist

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

no of course im not implying she did this it would be ridiculous

So when you said THAT PERSON, you meant someone different this time?

That would be convenient.

no i did mean her, my point was that, while anita didnt get GTA5 banned, people who think like her did

People who think like you include fucking Nazi's like KoP! This is such a worthless fucking argument.

KoP probably doesnt think like me when it comes to race and nazis, but he probably thinks like me when it comes to video games, probably, i havent asked him personally and i dont follow him

the people i described think pretty much like anita when it comes to video games, and there is where i find the irony, "we wont take your games", and yet people like her are getting games pulled from stores

were you trying to prove something? because i think you missed the point

He thinks like you do about the dreaded SJW, like a reactionary.

And as one of those people who "think like Anita," I can assure you I am entirely against this whole petition. It's idiotic and misinformed. This doesn't change my stance on political issues, this doesn't change my stance on games or gaming culture.

then you dont fucking think like anita, anita legitimately believes devs should me made to stop makign games like GTA5

again you keep missing the point

I think devs should stop making games like GTA 5 of their own volition, because they are terrible. That is, at worst, what I've heard Anita has said.

Edit: your edit is an example of her saying just that.

Ah yes....the whole "I think something is terrible therefore it should not exist" argument that is common among many censorship advocates.

Just because you don't like GTA and think it's a terrible series doesn't mean everyone else shares the same sentiment.In fact good luck convincing Rockstar to stop making games for a series that generates millions of dollars for them on release,I'm sure they'll laugh at the notion.

For me to not hold the stance that GTA ought to not exist in its current form would be intellectual cowardice on my part. I think that it is uncreative, Nihilistic, somewhat misogynistic, misanthropic, and that it is a horrible trendsetter in game design.

And I don't care how much money it makes. I don't care how invested my capitalist overlords are in its success. Fuck them. If they will let profits stand in the way of morals and good game design, then they are exactly the kind of people I have no patience for.

Uh....GTA is a game series about crime and being a criminal.The series has never pretended to be anything but.Morals?In a GTA game?Seriously.....

You do notice that half of my complaints were about its terrible effect on modern game design and lack of creativity? There is no purpose in the game's millions of options, no thought. They're just there to be there. It leads to a game where everything you do is trivial and pointless.

I'm not asking for a game that teaches a good lesson to people about how we ought to all be nice to one another. The fact that the game at best pushes Nihilistic and misanthropic messages is a minor part of my issues with it. I don't like the game design, and I find the thoughtlessness and pointlessness of it all to be, well, immoral.

I guess I can agree with you on that front,most of the side content in GTA does tend to be nothing more than filler that gives players something to do after the main story is finished.Which is why I'll always prefer the Saint's Row games in that area.

Yeah, I like Saints Row better as well, especially considering that it would not be possible to argue that that game is exclusionary or Nihilistic in any way. That's a just a plus in comparison to the far better game design though.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

no of course im not implying she did this it would be ridiculous

So when you said THAT PERSON, you meant someone different this time?

That would be convenient.

no i did mean her, my point was that, while anita didnt get GTA5 banned, people who think like her did

People who think like you include fucking Nazi's like KoP! This is such a worthless fucking argument.

Wasn't Ian Miles Cheong a Neo-Nazi himself?

I had to look that up to find out who you were talking about, but it's pretty clear that Nazism is far in his past from what I can tell. It's like calling Jim a huge sexist because he used to say really sexist things a few years ago. I'm definitely in the forgive and forget camp on most things, so I have no intention of holding that against him.

KoP on the other hand, is still going around being a Nazi right now, so that isn't really applicable.

 

[Bat Vader]

no of course im not implying she did this it would be ridiculous

So when you said THAT PERSON, you meant someone different this time?

That would be convenient.

no i did mean her, my point was that, while anita didnt get GTA5 banned, people who think like her did

People who think like you include fucking Nazi's like KoP! This is such a worthless fucking argument.

KoP probably doesnt think like me when it comes to race and nazis, but he probably thinks like me when it comes to video games, probably, i havent asked him personally and i dont follow him

the people i described think pretty much like anita when it comes to video games, and there is where i find the irony, "we wont take your games", and yet people like her are getting games pulled from stores

were you trying to prove something? because i think you missed the point

He thinks like you do about the dreaded SJW, like a reactionary.

And as one of those people who "think like Anita," I can assure you I am entirely against this whole petition. It's idiotic and misinformed. This doesn't change my stance on political issues, this doesn't change my stance on games or gaming culture.

then you dont fucking think like anita, anita legitimately believes devs should me made to stop makign games like GTA5

again you keep missing the point

I think devs should stop making games like GTA 5 of their own volition, because they are terrible. That is, at worst, what I've heard Anita has said.

Edit: your edit is an example of her saying just that.

not really she wants game publishers to enforce censorship

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/sarkeesian-dubbed-video-game-avenger-on-striking-bloomberg-businessweek-cover/0141950

is this what you want?

edit: so thats what you want? very well, you do think like her and you are pro-censorship

What's wrong with a woman breaking out of the tower herself instead of getting rescued?

Also, can all the Pro-GG and anti-GG people take their arguments into the GG threads in R&P please?

christ that isnt the damn problem, she wants publishers to enforce censorship on devs, that IS the problem, and her idea isnt even that original, is like playing oblivion with a female character, no wait, is like playing the FIRST 20 minutes of oblivion with a female character

I kind of agree with her somewhat but at the same time game developers have pretty much moved away from that stuff. Bioware has almost always had homosexual, lesbian, and bisexual romances in their games and lets players play either a male or female protagonist. I will admit I do dislike the macho manly types. I am a male and I find those types of protagonists stupid which is why I love playing as rogues and mages. Weaker characters that make up for it with finesse, guile, and intelligence.

I dislike zero tolerance policies. They are too restrictive and stifle creativity. If a developer wants to make a sexist, homophobic, racist game I say they have that right but they should not be surprised if it doesn't sell well or at all.

if the dev wants to have X character is fine, if the devs is FORCED to not include X character, is wrong

even macho men and sexy characters have a right to exist

I agree they have a right to exist. I don't hate sexy characters I hate some of the clothing/armor they wear. There is in no way, shape, or form a chainmail bikini will ever protect someone in battle. Same applies to Conan the barbarian and his armor or lack thereof. If they want to make armor like that available in game that is fine. I will nitpick the hell out of it though.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

no of course im not implying she did this it would be ridiculous

So when you said THAT PERSON, you meant someone different this time?

That would be convenient.

no i did mean her, my point was that, while anita didnt get GTA5 banned, people who think like her did

People who think like you include fucking Nazi's like KoP! This is such a worthless fucking argument.

KoP probably doesnt think like me when it comes to race and nazis, but he probably thinks like me when it comes to video games, probably, i havent asked him personally and i dont follow him

the people i described think pretty much like anita when it comes to video games, and there is where i find the irony, "we wont take your games", and yet people like her are getting games pulled from stores

were you trying to prove something? because i think you missed the point

He thinks like you do about the dreaded SJW, like a reactionary.

And as one of those people who "think like Anita," I can assure you I am entirely against this whole petition. It's idiotic and misinformed. This doesn't change my stance on political issues, this doesn't change my stance on games or gaming culture.

then you dont fucking think like anita, anita legitimately believes devs should me made to stop makign games like GTA5

again you keep missing the point

I think devs should stop making games like GTA 5 of their own volition, because they are terrible. That is, at worst, what I've heard Anita has said.

Edit: your edit is an example of her saying just that.

not really she wants game publishers to enforce censorship

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/sarkeesian-dubbed-video-game-avenger-on-striking-bloomberg-businessweek-cover/0141950

is this what you want?

edit: so thats what you want? very well, you do think like her and you are pro-censorship

What's wrong with a woman breaking out of the tower herself instead of getting rescued?

Also, can all the Pro-GG and anti-GG people take their arguments into the GG threads in R&P please?

christ that isnt the damn problem, she wants publishers to enforce censorship on devs, that IS the problem, and her idea isnt even that original, is like playing oblivion with a female character, no wait, is like playing the FIRST 20 minutes of oblivion with a female character

I kind of agree with her somewhat but at the same time game developers have pretty much moved away from that stuff. Bioware has almost always had homosexual, lesbian, and bisexual romances in their games and lets players play either a male or female protagonist. I will admit I do dislike the macho manly types. I am a male and I find those types of protagonists stupid which is why I love playing as rogues and mages. Weaker characters that make up for it with finesse, guile, and intelligence.

I dislike zero tolerance policies. They are too restrictive and stifle creativity. If a developer wants to make a sexist, homophobic, racist game I say they have that right but they should not be surprised if it doesn't sell well or at all.

if the dev wants to have X character is fine, if the devs is FORCED to not include X character, is wrong

even macho men and sexy characters have a right to exist

I agree they have a right to exist. I don't hate sexy characters I hate some of the clothing/armor they wear. There is in no way, shape, or form a chainmail bikini will ever protect someone in battle. Same applies to Conan the barbarian and his armor or lack thereof. If they want to make armor like that available in game that is fine. I will nitpick the hell out of it though.

it depends, there are ways to make it work, a lot of people like the design of kratos for instance, not that im one of them, but they exist

 

[Bat Vader]

no of course im not implying she did this it would be ridiculous

So when you said THAT PERSON, you meant someone different this time?

That would be convenient.

no i did mean her, my point was that, while anita didnt get GTA5 banned, people who think like her did

People who think like you include fucking Nazi's like KoP! This is such a worthless fucking argument.

KoP probably doesnt think like me when it comes to race and nazis, but he probably thinks like me when it comes to video games, probably, i havent asked him personally and i dont follow him

the people i described think pretty much like anita when it comes to video games, and there is where i find the irony, "we wont take your games", and yet people like her are getting games pulled from stores

were you trying to prove something? because i think you missed the point

He thinks like you do about the dreaded SJW, like a reactionary.

And as one of those people who "think like Anita," I can assure you I am entirely against this whole petition. It's idiotic and misinformed. This doesn't change my stance on political issues, this doesn't change my stance on games or gaming culture.

then you dont fucking think like anita, anita legitimately believes devs should me made to stop makign games like GTA5

again you keep missing the point

I think devs should stop making games like GTA 5 of their own volition, because they are terrible. That is, at worst, what I've heard Anita has said.

Edit: your edit is an example of her saying just that.

Ah yes....the whole "I think something is terrible therefore it should not exist" argument that is common among many censorship advocates.

Just because you don't like GTA and think it's a terrible series doesn't mean everyone else shares the same sentiment.In fact good luck convincing Rockstar to stop making games for a series that generates millions of dollars for them on release,I'm sure they'll laugh at the notion.

For me to not hold the stance that GTA ought to not exist in its current form would be intellectual cowardice on my part. I think that it is uncreative, Nihilistic, somewhat misogynistic, misanthropic, and that it is a horrible trendsetter in game design.

And I don't care how much money it makes. I don't care how invested my capitalist overlords are in its success. Fuck them. If they will let profits stand in the way of morals and good game design, then they are exactly the kind of people I have no patience for.

Uh....GTA is a game series about crime and being a criminal.The series has never pretended to be anything but.Morals?In a GTA game?Seriously.....

Niko Bellic in GTA IV had morals. Players didn't have to abide by his morals but he did have them. It's why I like Niko the most out of all the GTA protagonists.

Yet he still had the highest body count out of all the GTA protagonists,Niko Bellic may have had a moral fiber but he still killed people to further his goal of revenge which isn't exactly moral in of itself.

That's true but at the same time that was basically all he knew. He was forced into a war as a very young man and saw all of his friends die because of betrayal. I can understand why he was so messed up and seeking revenge. I don't agree with how he went about it and kept working for criminals and committing criminal acts.

 

[truckspond]

As someone living in the country affected by this retailer's decision to cave in to the TOTC trolls I only have this to say about it all: Meh.

Seriously, Target and Kmart are not the only places that are willing to take your money for games over here. If you still want to pick up a copy at a variety discount store then BigW still has copies and so do JB Hi-fi, Dick Smith Electronics, EB Games and many other places that are still more than happy to take your money and give you the game in return. And even if somehow every physical retailer stops selling then there are still plenty of options overseas, outside of the TOTC trolls reach like ozgameshop which is still more than happy to take your money and send you either a digital copy key via email or a physical copy via regular mail. All this stunt does is prove how backwards Australia is going as a country.

 

[Bat Vader]

no of course im not implying she did this it would be ridiculous

So when you said THAT PERSON, you meant someone different this time?

That would be convenient.

no i did mean her, my point was that, while anita didnt get GTA5 banned, people who think like her did

People who think like you include fucking Nazi's like KoP! This is such a worthless fucking argument.

KoP probably doesnt think like me when it comes to race and nazis, but he probably thinks like me when it comes to video games, probably, i havent asked him personally and i dont follow him

the people i described think pretty much like anita when it comes to video games, and there is where i find the irony, "we wont take your games", and yet people like her are getting games pulled from stores

were you trying to prove something? because i think you missed the point

He thinks like you do about the dreaded SJW, like a reactionary.

And as one of those people who "think like Anita," I can assure you I am entirely against this whole petition. It's idiotic and misinformed. This doesn't change my stance on political issues, this doesn't change my stance on games or gaming culture.

then you dont fucking think like anita, anita legitimately believes devs should me made to stop makign games like GTA5

again you keep missing the point

I think devs should stop making games like GTA 5 of their own volition, because they are terrible. That is, at worst, what I've heard Anita has said.

Edit: your edit is an example of her saying just that.

not really she wants game publishers to enforce censorship

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/sarkeesian-dubbed-video-game-avenger-on-striking-bloomberg-businessweek-cover/0141950

is this what you want?

edit: so thats what you want? very well, you do think like her and you are pro-censorship

What's wrong with a woman breaking out of the tower herself instead of getting rescued?

Also, can all the Pro-GG and anti-GG people take their arguments into the GG threads in R&P please?

christ that isnt the damn problem, she wants publishers to enforce censorship on devs, that IS the problem, and her idea isnt even that original, is like playing oblivion with a female character, no wait, is like playing the FIRST 20 minutes of oblivion with a female character

I kind of agree with her somewhat but at the same time game developers have pretty much moved away from that stuff. Bioware has almost always had homosexual, lesbian, and bisexual romances in their games and lets players play either a male or female protagonist. I will admit I do dislike the macho manly types. I am a male and I find those types of protagonists stupid which is why I love playing as rogues and mages. Weaker characters that make up for it with finesse, guile, and intelligence.

I dislike zero tolerance policies. They are too restrictive and stifle creativity. If a developer wants to make a sexist, homophobic, racist game I say they have that right but they should not be surprised if it doesn't sell well or at all.

if the dev wants to have X character is fine, if the devs is FORCED to not include X character, is wrong

even macho men and sexy characters have a right to exist

I agree they have a right to exist. I don't hate sexy characters I hate some of the clothing/armor they wear. There is in no way, shape, or form a chainmail bikini will ever protect someone in battle. Same applies to Conan the barbarian and his armor or lack thereof. If they want to make armor like that available in game that is fine. I will nitpick the hell out of it though.

it depends, there are ways to make it work, a lot of people like the design of kratos for instance, not that im one of them, but they exist

It can work but the person wearing it has to be able to take a beating. With Kratos being a demi-god it makes sense that he can take a beating. He's been stabbed, shot, turned to stone, crushed by a giant statue, etc. If you have seen season 4 of Game of Thrones I find Oberyn Martell's armor to be best for characters that like to move around.

 

[The Material Sheep]

no of course im not implying she did this it would be ridiculous

So when you said THAT PERSON, you meant someone different this time?

That would be convenient.

no i did mean her, my point was that, while anita didnt get GTA5 banned, people who think like her did

People who think like you include fucking Nazi's like KoP! This is such a worthless fucking argument.

KoP probably doesnt think like me when it comes to race and nazis, but he probably thinks like me when it comes to video games, probably, i havent asked him personally and i dont follow him

the people i described think pretty much like anita when it comes to video games, and there is where i find the irony, "we wont take your games", and yet people like her are getting games pulled from stores

were you trying to prove something? because i think you missed the point

He thinks like you do about the dreaded SJW, like a reactionary.

And as one of those people who "think like Anita," I can assure you I am entirely against this whole petition. It's idiotic and misinformed. This doesn't change my stance on political issues, this doesn't change my stance on games or gaming culture.

then you dont fucking think like anita, anita legitimately believes devs should me made to stop makign games like GTA5

again you keep missing the point

I think devs should stop making games like GTA 5 of their own volition, because they are terrible. That is, at worst, what I've heard Anita has said.

Edit: your edit is an example of her saying just that.

Ah yes....the whole "I think something is terrible therefore it should not exist" argument that is common among many censorship advocates.

Just because you don't like GTA and think it's a terrible series doesn't mean everyone else shares the same sentiment.In fact good luck convincing Rockstar to stop making games for a series that generates millions of dollars for them on release,I'm sure they'll laugh at the notion.

For me to not hold the stance that GTA ought to not exist in its current form would be intellectual cowardice on my part. I think that it is uncreative, Nihilistic, somewhat misogynistic, misanthropic, and that it is a horrible trendsetter in game design.

And I don't care how much money it makes. I don't care how invested my capitalist overlords are in its success. Fuck them. If they will let profits stand in the way of morals and good game design, then they are exactly the kind of people I have no patience for.

Uh....GTA is a game series about crime and being a criminal.The series has never pretended to be anything but.Morals?In a GTA game?Seriously.....

You do notice that half of my complaints were about its terrible effect on modern game design and lack of creativity? There is no purpose in the game's millions of options, no thought. They're just there to be there. It leads to a game where everything you do is trivial and pointless.

I'm not asking for a game that teaches a good lesson to people about how we ought to all be nice to one another. The fact that the game at best pushes Nihilistic and misanthropic messages is a minor part of my issues with it. I don't like the game design, and I find the thoughtlessness and pointlessness of it all to be, well, immoral.

I guess I can agree with you on that front,most of the side content in GTA does tend to be nothing more than filler that gives players something to do after the main story is finished.Which is why I'll always prefer the Saint's Row games in that area.

Yeah, I like Saints Row better as well, especially considering that it would not be possible to argue that that game is exclusionary or Nihilistic in any way. That's a just a plus in comparison to the far better game design though.

Why isn't it okay for a game to be made and sold from a nihilistic perspective? You don't have to like it but you also don't have to buy it. To me this is less I feel there is no creativity or progression and more I'm not being catered to so therefore its wrong. People will make what sells unfortunately, so big licenses are going to keep doing what sells until it isn't profitable. If you really want change you don't need to cheer this knee jerk strong arming because its not changing the fundamental problems that stifle creativity with game design, it's just setting new parameters but unfortunately it's setting those new creative limits with a smug sense of self righteousness instead of a self aware profit motive. You can change the mind of someone who is motivated through profit, it's much harder to do so with people who are ideologically inclined towards a dogmatic and narrow view of the world.

All in all, the world doesn't revolve around you or your sentimentality. It shouldn't and so long as people aren't harming each other it really shouldn't bother you that people are doing their own thing in their own community.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

no of course im not implying she did this it would be ridiculous

So when you said THAT PERSON, you meant someone different this time?

That would be convenient.

no i did mean her, my point was that, while anita didnt get GTA5 banned, people who think like her did

People who think like you include fucking Nazi's like KoP! This is such a worthless fucking argument.

KoP probably doesnt think like me when it comes to race and nazis, but he probably thinks like me when it comes to video games, probably, i havent asked him personally and i dont follow him

the people i described think pretty much like anita when it comes to video games, and there is where i find the irony, "we wont take your games", and yet people like her are getting games pulled from stores

were you trying to prove something? because i think you missed the point

He thinks like you do about the dreaded SJW, like a reactionary.

And as one of those people who "think like Anita," I can assure you I am entirely against this whole petition. It's idiotic and misinformed. This doesn't change my stance on political issues, this doesn't change my stance on games or gaming culture.

then you dont fucking think like anita, anita legitimately believes devs should me made to stop makign games like GTA5

again you keep missing the point

I think devs should stop making games like GTA 5 of their own volition, because they are terrible. That is, at worst, what I've heard Anita has said.

Edit: your edit is an example of her saying just that.

Ah yes....the whole "I think something is terrible therefore it should not exist" argument that is common among many censorship advocates.

Just because you don't like GTA and think it's a terrible series doesn't mean everyone else shares the same sentiment.In fact good luck convincing Rockstar to stop making games for a series that generates millions of dollars for them on release,I'm sure they'll laugh at the notion.

For me to not hold the stance that GTA ought to not exist in its current form would be intellectual cowardice on my part. I think that it is uncreative, Nihilistic, somewhat misogynistic, misanthropic, and that it is a horrible trendsetter in game design.

And I don't care how much money it makes. I don't care how invested my capitalist overlords are in its success. Fuck them. If they will let profits stand in the way of morals and good game design, then they are exactly the kind of people I have no patience for.

Uh....GTA is a game series about crime and being a criminal.The series has never pretended to be anything but.Morals?In a GTA game?Seriously.....

You do notice that half of my complaints were about its terrible effect on modern game design and lack of creativity? There is no purpose in the game's millions of options, no thought. They're just there to be there. It leads to a game where everything you do is trivial and pointless.

I'm not asking for a game that teaches a good lesson to people about how we ought to all be nice to one another. The fact that the game at best pushes Nihilistic and misanthropic messages is a minor part of my issues with it. I don't like the game design, and I find the thoughtlessness and pointlessness of it all to be, well, immoral.

I guess I can agree with you on that front,most of the side content in GTA does tend to be nothing more than filler that gives players something to do after the main story is finished.Which is why I'll always prefer the Saint's Row games in that area.

Yeah, I like Saints Row better as well, especially considering that it would not be possible to argue that that game is exclusionary or Nihilistic in any way. That's a just a plus in comparison to the far better game design though.

Why isn't it okay for a game to be made and sold from a nihilistic perspective?

Because Nihilism is like, super bad. It is the worst.

You don't have to like it but you also don't have to buy it. To me this is less I feel there is no creativity or progression and more I'm not being catered to so therefore its wrong.

They do avoid thought and creativity. They throw in extras as an afterthought and put little effort into the main game. There is no intention in their design. You just do things aimlessly. And if games were all supposed to cater to me, there would be nothing but Alpha Protocol and Fire Emblem games. I'm not hammering for bad characters, a lack of non-lethal options, real choice recognition, or permanent death. I am directly criticizing the lazy design that pervades the series.

People will make what sells unfortunately, so big licenses are going to keep doing what sells until it isn't profitable.

That is no fucking excuse. If killing children in Africa sold (which it has in the past) that would not make it alright. Morality ought to trump profits.

If you really want change you don't need to cheer this knee jerk strong arming because its not changing the fundamental problems that stifle creativity with game design, it's just setting new parameters but unfortunately it's setting those new creative limits with a smug sense of self righteousness instead of a self aware profit motive. You can change the mind of someone who is motivated through profit, it's much harder to do so with people who are ideologically inclined towards a dogmatic and narrow view of the world.

Fuck profit motive. I believe in doing what's right.

All in all, the world doesn't revolve around you or your sentimentality. It shouldn't and so long as people aren't harming each other it really shouldn't bother you that people are doing their own thing in their own community.

The world should revolve around my sentimentality. It should revolve around ethics, around morals, around values. It should revolve around common fucking decency. We ought to help one another, we ought to do right by one another, and we ought to stand for something. This aimless existence we are all so willing to accept is beneath us, not as gamers, but as fucking human beings. Demand more of others, demand more of society, demand more of yourself. Demand that the world change. And then make that fucking change. Live for something, because living for nothing is hardly living at all.

Basing the entirety of morality around the harm principle is just laziness. You can do better. We all can.

 

[Redryhno]

I agree they have a right to exist. I don't hate sexy characters I hate some of the clothing/armor they wear. There is in no way, shape, or form a chainmail bikini will ever protect someone in battle. Same applies to Conan the barbarian and his armor or lack thereof. If they want to make armor like that available in game that is fine. I will nitpick the hell out of it though.

Let's be fair here,if you're going to point out instances of this, do your research, Conan was basically a part of a superhuman race, so him wearing what he wore was not that weird. The stories Howard wrote and kept notes on routinely made reference to the Cimmerians being able to scale sheer cliffs with just their bodies and recovering from wounds that would kill pretty much anyone else.

They were like stone-age tech except for being able to use metal for tools and weapons, after all, and still had a reputation in Hyborea for being people you don't mess with.

 

[Teoes]

I'm counting down until someone posts the "First they came for the communists and I said nothing" quote in a serious manner.

Weeee have a winner! Posted in the sister thread in Gaming Discussion, if you care for a laugh. You get 50 internet points.

OT: Mountain, molehill.

 

[Spartan448]

What's pissing me off more than the fact that just in general I get pissed off when games get banned is the fact that it's not getting banned for something that I could actually understand like "You literally rob like three banks and kill a bunch of people all while taking a disadvantaged street youth off the street and encouraging him to rob banks and kill people", what's pissing me off that it's being taken off the shelves specifically for violence against women.

I mean what the fuck. That game features violence against literally anything with a pulse. Does it just not count as violence anymore if it happens to a dude? Men get murdered just the same as women do. And it is no more or less grizzly when it happens - the limbs can be ripped off just the same as with any other living creature.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Why am I reminded of that one poem Yahtzee wrote for Rymedown Spectacular? You know, the one about banning things?
Yes violence against women is a terrible thing, no doubt about that, however we can't go removing every bit of media that depicts it. No one is ever going to learn that way. It is your choice as a consumer not to expose yourself to GTAV, but it you shouldn't have the right to take it away from anyone else.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

no of course im not implying she did this it would be ridiculous

So when you said THAT PERSON, you meant someone different this time?

That would be convenient.

no i did mean her, my point was that, while anita didnt get GTA5 banned, people who think like her did

People who think like you include fucking Nazi's like KoP! This is such a worthless fucking argument.

KoP probably doesnt think like me when it comes to race and nazis, but he probably thinks like me when it comes to video games, probably, i havent asked him personally and i dont follow him

the people i described think pretty much like anita when it comes to video games, and there is where i find the irony, "we wont take your games", and yet people like her are getting games pulled from stores

were you trying to prove something? because i think you missed the point

He thinks like you do about the dreaded SJW, like a reactionary.

And as one of those people who "think like Anita," I can assure you I am entirely against this whole petition. It's idiotic and misinformed. This doesn't change my stance on political issues, this doesn't change my stance on games or gaming culture.

then you dont fucking think like anita, anita legitimately believes devs should me made to stop makign games like GTA5

again you keep missing the point

I think devs should stop making games like GTA 5 of their own volition, because they are terrible. That is, at worst, what I've heard Anita has said.

Edit: your edit is an example of her saying just that.

not really she wants game publishers to enforce censorship

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/sarkeesian-dubbed-video-game-avenger-on-striking-bloomberg-businessweek-cover/0141950

is this what you want?

edit: so thats what you want? very well, you do think like her and you are pro-censorship

What's wrong with a woman breaking out of the tower herself instead of getting rescued?

Also, can all the Pro-GG and anti-GG people take their arguments into the GG threads in R&P please?

christ that isnt the damn problem, she wants publishers to enforce censorship on devs, that IS the problem, and her idea isnt even that original, is like playing oblivion with a female character, no wait, is like playing the FIRST 20 minutes of oblivion with a female character

I kind of agree with her somewhat but at the same time game developers have pretty much moved away from that stuff. Bioware has almost always had homosexual, lesbian, and bisexual romances in their games and lets players play either a male or female protagonist. I will admit I do dislike the macho manly types. I am a male and I find those types of protagonists stupid which is why I love playing as rogues and mages. Weaker characters that make up for it with finesse, guile, and intelligence.

I dislike zero tolerance policies. They are too restrictive and stifle creativity. If a developer wants to make a sexist, homophobic, racist game I say they have that right but they should not be surprised if it doesn't sell well or at all.

if the dev wants to have X character is fine, if the devs is FORCED to not include X character, is wrong

even macho men and sexy characters have a right to exist

I agree they have a right to exist. I don't hate sexy characters I hate some of the clothing/armor they wear. There is in no way, shape, or form a chainmail bikini will ever protect someone in battle. Same applies to Conan the barbarian and his armor or lack thereof. If they want to make armor like that available in game that is fine. I will nitpick the hell out of it though.

it depends, there are ways to make it work, a lot of people like the design of kratos for instance, not that im one of them, but they exist

It can work but the person wearing it has to be able to take a beating. With Kratos being a demi-god it makes sense that he can take a beating. He's been stabbed, shot, turned to stone, crushed by a giant statue, etc. If you have seen season 4 of Game of Thrones I find Oberyn Martell's armor to be best for characters that like to move around.

yeah that seems to be the best ways to use the armor

 

[WhiteNachos]

And honestly, I don't really know why I'd expect the facts to matter to someone who goes on to use the term "SJW" in an unironic sense.

I'm guessing it's because you can't stand the idea that you might be wrong about something, so instead of actually debating someone's points you look for superficial reasons to dismiss what they say.

You remind me of a 14 year old calling someone a retard because they made a spelling mistake.

You should argue people's ideas rather than obsessing over the exact words they used.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Silly me, thinking that gaming's fascination with ridiculous gender politics would remain confined to the internet.
Now, apparently it's interfering with economic process.

*sigh*

On one hand, it's Australia. This is...kinda their forte, sadly.
On the other hand, their reasoning is head-bashingly idiotic; and the people Target-Aus/Kmart-Aus are caving to are even bigger idiots.

Speaking of...

*glances through pages*
Naturally, GamerGate got brought up because...well this article has fuck-all to do with GamerGate, so obviously it was highly relevant information, and not just people looking to start shit.