Teen Arrested for Home-Made "Hot or Not" List on Facebook

[cefm]

If you live in a jurisdiction in which there is a law on the books that makes this kind of activity illegal, LEAVE. Your elected officials are idiotic assholes and there's no telling what they'll do next just because they're too stupid to know how to actually do their jobs.

 

[FinalHeart95]

He's stupid, and he deserved to be expelled. But what could he possibly be arrested for? I would've gotten defamation charges maybe, but disorderly conduct? Really?

And I understand the dad being so pissed, but he makes it sound like the kid deserves a multi-year sentence.

 

[PhiMed]

I think we're missing the bigger problem here. If you revisit the article, you can see that he also printed off several hundred copies of this list, and handed them out to other students. That is, he was not arrested for an offensive post on facebook, he was arrested for posting on facebook AND spreading this list throughout the campus.

With the numerous rules most high schools have regarding sexual content and anti-bullying, I can understand why he was expelled.

But the main argument here seems to be that he doesn't deserve going to juvenile court. I disagree.

Just because he's going to court doesn't mean they're going to lock him up for weeks or months, nor does it mean that he's going to get a mark on some form that will haunt him to his grave.

If a teen breaks a window, he goes to Juvy. If a teen has an ounce of marijuana on him, he goes to Juvy. If these crimes justify Juvenile Court, I think this case does too.

This guy printed and slandered 50 individuals. Slander is a crime in this country. Usually, high school insults are ignored and dismissed, since I think everyone is guilty of gossip. But considering the number of people involved, and the solid evidence of the facebook post and the hundreds of forms, they pursued legal action.

Most likely he'll just wind up with a small fine, and 20 or 30 hours of community service, which seems appropriate to me.

Where do you live? They send kids to juvenile detention for breaking a window? Wow.

Slander is not a crime in the United States. Slander is a civil offense, which means you cannot be sent to jail for slander. If slander's the best thing you've got, then all they can do is sue him. If you're saying he should be sued and he should lose, I'd be inclined to agree with you. But he can't go to jail for slander, even if it's proven.

But that's beside the point. He was charged with "disorderly conduct", not slander. Disorderly conduct is legalese for "He didn't really violate any laws, but we want to charge him with a crime anyway." This is misappropriation of funds by the District Attorney, I'd almost guarantee we'll find out later that the DA's doing this because of a personal vendetta (hmmm... wonder if one of his relatives was on that list... I'm betting yes), and it just stinks of harassment.

 

[JDKJ]

nononononononono

Presuming he did this at home there is no call at all for any authority barring his parents to do anything about this. If he gets public ridicule or something whatever. This is free speech and this isn't within a school's domain

Actually, from what I read of the OP's article, some of the conduct in question did occur on school grounds during school hours. And it may not be free speech. The Supreme Court has recognized that while minor students don't leave their First Amendment rights at the schoolhouse doors, the school administration does have a substantial interest in regulating student conduct in order to ensure an environment conducive to their educational mission. In short, students in school do have free speech rights but those rights are not as complete as the rights of adults in the public square.

Yes. By all means, expel him. He may even be subject to suit. But is this really worthy of a 3-month investigation and criminal charges? It just seems like harassment to me.

Given that this occurs in a small village/township with a population of around 50,000 souls with less than 6% total population below the poverty line, I'm assuming the law enforcement resources aren't exactly overtaxed solving homicides, armed robberies, and other major crimes.

 

[Cropsy91]

While I don't think he *should* have been arrested, this kid is a disgusting asshole, and I'll lose no sleep over him rotting in jail for a few days.

 

[PhiMed]

nononononononono

Presuming he did this at home there is no call at all for any authority barring his parents to do anything about this. If he gets public ridicule or something whatever. This is free speech and this isn't within a school's domain

Actually, from what I read of the OP's article, some of the conduct in question did occur on school grounds during school hours. And it may not be free speech. The Supreme Court has recognized that while minor students don't leave their First Amendment rights at the schoolhouse doors, the school administration does have a substantial interest in regulating student conduct in order to ensure an environment conducive to their educational mission. In short, students in school do have free speech rights but those rights are not as complete as the rights of adults in the public square.

Yes. By all means, expel him. He may even be subject to suit. But is this really worthy of a 3-month investigation and criminal charges? It just seems like harassment to me.

Given that this occurs in a small village/township with a population of around 50,000 souls with less than 6% total population below the poverty line, I'm assuming the law enforcement resources aren't exactly overtaxed solving homicides, armed robberies, and other major crimes.

I meant harassment by the DA, with this idiot as the victim.

Edit: And apparently you realized what I was saying, because you edited that out... ninja'd.

 

[AgentNein]

And on a different note: is it just me, or is there a shit-ton of sexism on this forum?

Yes, there is a shit-ton of sexism on this forum.

It only became apparent to me relatively recently, but it's absolutely appalling and to be perfectly frank, I don't feel all that welcome around here these days.

As a woman, I've got to say that I agree. I've been seriously appalled the last few months at some of the opinions here, particularly the last round of sexism over the "Slut Walks" which were protests over the double standards applied to women and sex. Most of the arguments boiled down to "women should be free to dress how they want without having to worry about rape" versus "women who dress like sluts deserve what they get". I've been avoiding the Escapist lately because I just don't feel welcome here anymore.

Oh god, absolutely. I was in that thread too and it began to make me physically nauseous after a while. So much bigotry, blindness, double standards and ignorance. Some time before that there was also a thread about feminism which got pretty ugly.

It's really sad that you've been avoiding these forums because of it, but I can't say I blame you. I guess there's just a lot of entrenched male privilege around these parts.

Just an aside: I'm a woman too. But it's not only women that are aware of the sexism here; I've seen some men getting equally spitting mad about it.

I was in that thread for about twenty pages explaining to people why "hur hur you wouldn't walk into a bear cave covered in meat would you" isn't a very good argument (each and every time it was brought up by someone or other who thought it was a clever and original point) before my brain exploded. It just...exploded.

I'm better now.

 

[mike1921]

nononononononono

Presuming he did this at home there is no call at all for any authority barring his parents to do anything about this. If he gets public ridicule or something whatever. This is free speech and this isn't within a school's domain

Actually, from what I read of the OP's article, some of the conduct in question did occur on school grounds during school hours. And it may not be free speech. The Supreme Court has recognized that while minor students don't leave their First Amendment rights at the schoolhouse doors, the school administration does have a substantial interest in regulating student conduct in order to ensure an environment conducive to their educational mission. In short, students in school do have free speech rights but those rights are not as complete as the rights of adults in the public square.

Ok, then it's fine to give him a detention or something.

Yes, it's free speech. I don't give a fuck what the court says, if someone goes to jail for shit like this we don't have free speech. Public schools aren't the police and they're not a body that can put you in jail so they're free to regulate things that government entities can not regulate. Think of it like a job. Just because you have the right to free speech doesn't mean you don't get in trouble when you tell your boss you fucked his mother, it means the cops aren't involved.

 

[MahouSniper]

li·bel
   [lahy-buhl] Show IPA noun, verb, -beled, -bel·ing or ( especially British ) -belled, -bel·ling.
?noun
1.
Law .
a.
defamation by written or printed words, pictures, or in any form other than by spoken words or gestures.
b.
the act or crime of publishing it.
c.
a formal written declaration or statement, as one containing the allegations of a plaintiff or the grounds of a charge.
2.
anything that is defamatory or that maliciously or damagingly misrepresents.


I'd say posting an online list of 50 girls, then printing it out and distributing it on school grounds during school hours can count as a pretty serious case of harassment and libel. When you get a job, employers will look at that kind of stuff. If they see you tagged in a Facebook list as "The Designated Drunk" you don't think that's going to affect your chances of being hired? Never mind the fact that it is basically a list discussing statutory rape since most high school kids are underage and I guarantee there are plenty of 18+ kids with a copy of that list.

It's one thing to do a douchey list like this. It's another thing to do it on the sheer scale that he did. I'm glad he got arrested. Teach the little fucker a lesson.

 

[Tradjus]

Well, this kid sure sounds like a dick, but unfortunately being a dick isn't illegal.

 

[JDKJ]

I think we're missing the bigger problem here. If you revisit the article, you can see that he also printed off several hundred copies of this list, and handed them out to other students. That is, he was not arrested for an offensive post on facebook, he was arrested for posting on facebook AND spreading this list throughout the campus.

With the numerous rules most high schools have regarding sexual content and anti-bullying, I can understand why he was expelled.

But the main argument here seems to be that he doesn't deserve going to juvenile court. I disagree.

Just because he's going to court doesn't mean they're going to lock him up for weeks or months, nor does it mean that he's going to get a mark on some form that will haunt him to his grave.

If a teen breaks a window, he goes to Juvy. If a teen has an ounce of marijuana on him, he goes to Juvy. If these crimes justify Juvenile Court, I think this case does too.

This guy printed and slandered 50 individuals. Slander is a crime in this country. Usually, high school insults are ignored and dismissed, since I think everyone is guilty of gossip. But considering the number of people involved, and the solid evidence of the facebook post and the hundreds of forms, they pursued legal action.

Most likely he'll just wind up with a small fine, and 20 or 30 hours of community service, which seems appropriate to me.

Where do you live? They send kids to juvenile detention for breaking a window? Wow.

Slander is not a crime in the United States. Slander is a civil offense, which means you cannot be sent to jail for slander. If slander's the best thing you've got, then all they can do is sue him. If you're saying he should be sued and he should lose, I'd be inclined to agree with you. But he can't go to jail for slander, even if it's proven.

But that's beside the point. He was charged with "disorderly conduct", not slander. Disorderly conduct is legalese for "He didn't really violate any laws, but we want to charge him with a crime anyway." This is misappropriation of funds by the District Attorney, I'd almost guarantee we'll find out later that the DA's doing this because of a personal vendetta (hmmm... wonder if one of his relatives was on that list... I'm betting yes), and it just stinks of harassment.

And the reason the cops like to charge disorderly conduct is because they know that they get to cuff you up and give you a free ride in the back of a cruiser with relatively little long-term damage done because most criminal courts will cut you loose with time served on a "nollo" plea the first time your arraigned. As the cops like to tell disorderly conduct arrestees, "You're gonna beat the rap, but you ain't gonna avoid the ride."

 

[AgentNein]

Is he a misogynistic douchebag? Yes, and that's putting it very mildly.
Is he a criminal? No. Not really.

A more fitting punishment would be to line up all the girls on the list and let them full-on slap him in turn.

That's a bit barbaric don't you think. I mean being insulted vs. being physically hurt is kind of a leap IMO.

Well I just mean a slap as they normally would. You see it all the time, chauvanistic guy like this one does something typically... well, dickish. And the girl slaps him. But it'd be on a bigger scale to match his.

I don't think being insulting entitles one to be slapped no matter the genders (unless you then challenge the person to a duel).

I'm not a fan of physical violence to solve problems. I'm really not. With that said, by intentionally attacking the reputation of fifty or so of his fellow students he probably did a bit more harm than a slap would do.

 

[Chemical Alia]

And on a different note: is it just me, or is there a shit-ton of sexism on this forum?

Yes, there is a shit-ton of sexism on this forum.

It only became apparent to me relatively recently, but it's absolutely appalling and to be perfectly frank, I don't feel all that welcome around here these days.

As a woman, I've got to say that I agree. I've been seriously appalled the last few months at some of the opinions here, particularly the last round of sexism over the "Slut Walks" which were protests over the double standards applied to women and sex. Most of the arguments boiled down to "women should be free to dress how they want without having to worry about rape" versus "women who dress like sluts deserve what they get". I've been avoiding the Escapist lately because I just don't feel welcome here anymore.

Oh god, absolutely. I was in that thread too and it began to make me physically nauseous after a while. So much bigotry, blindness, double standards and ignorance. Some time before that there was also a thread about feminism which got pretty ugly.

It's really sad that you've been avoiding these forums because of it, but I can't say I blame you. I guess there's just a lot of entrenched male privilege around these parts.

Just an aside: I'm a woman too. But it's not only women that are aware of the sexism here; I've seen some men getting equally spitting mad about it.

Same. The threads relating to women in games, military, or feminism in general around here tend to make me feel a bit ill when I read through them. I was surprised to see so many negative views about females shared by such a large part of this gaming community, never really experienced that before outside of the games themselves. Makes you feel a bit less welcome at times.

 

[JDKJ]

nononononononono

Presuming he did this at home there is no call at all for any authority barring his parents to do anything about this. If he gets public ridicule or something whatever. This is free speech and this isn't within a school's domain

Actually, from what I read of the OP's article, some of the conduct in question did occur on school grounds during school hours. And it may not be free speech. The Supreme Court has recognized that while minor students don't leave their First Amendment rights at the schoolhouse doors, the school administration does have a substantial interest in regulating student conduct in order to ensure an environment conducive to their educational mission. In short, students in school do have free speech rights but those rights are not as complete as the rights of adults in the public square.

Ok, then it's fine to give him a detention or something.

Yes, it's free speech. I don't give a fuck what the court says, if someone goes to jail for shit like this we don't have free speech. Public schools aren't the police and they're not a body that can put you in jail so they're free to regulate things that government entities can not regulate. Think of it like a job. Just because you have the right to free speech doesn't mean you don't get in trouble when you tell your boss you fucked his mother, it means the cops aren't involved.

Unfortunately for you, you've got no more free speech rights than the Supreme Court says you do. That's the way the game gets played. So if you don't give a fuck what the Court says, then fine. But you're still stuck with what they say.

And Oak Park-River Forest High School is a public school. Technically they are a branch of the state government -- as are all state public schools -- and are therefore subject to all the restrictions on regulation to which the government is subject. They are no more "free to regulate things" than the government is -- they are the government.

 

[Nurb]

His crime is being a stupid teenage boy not realizing he's in a pop-feminized society that considers hurting girls' feelings a criminal offense and any comment on female sexuality as rape.

And this is coming from a bi progressive liberal, not some "family values" conservative.

 

[DeathWyrmNexus]

Why not arrest him? Teach him a lesson. Maybe other kids won't feel brave enough to try it.

Should we jail him? Eh, I would rather impose a very, very, very, very large fine. Say.... oh, maybe 2000 dollars for each person whose picture he posted without permission. And that's if he's poor. If he's rich, make it.... 20,000 dollars for each person's picture he posted without permission. That'll teach the bastard a lesson.

GOOD PEOPLE DON'T DO THIS SORT OF THING. He is NOT a good person. Don't chalk this up to "youth" - I was a teenager once, I knew better than this. If I can tell the difference between right and wrong, so can he. I have no sympathy for these sorts of people - they're not good people. They're just not. A good person wouldn't do this. So, let whatever happens to him, happen.

Don't say "he made a mistake". Slipping on a banana peel is a mistake. Accidentally deleting your homework is a mistake. Dropping the dishes is a mistake. Meticulously creating a list of all the female students in your school for the purpose of demeaning them and making them feel vulnerable? That is NOT a mistake. You don't MISTAKENLY do that. You do it on purpose.

You could argue that "he didn't think about what he was doing!". No dice - you can't use that excuse. If he really didn't know what he was doing was wrong, then his mind is so feeble that he needs constant supervision.

So that's the two alternatives: Either he's an A+ Grade Moron who made a "mistake" because he was so intellectually feeble that he can't comprehend right from wrong, or he's a stone-age caveman. I'm not sympathetic to cavemen, and I only have pity for Morons. In any case, punishing him harshly is the right thing to do.

I would never do such a thing. So I am perfectly in my right to judge him. I am a good person. I know right from wrong. I'm CIVILIZED.

So... You think we should fine somebody into extinction because he made people feel bad and that makes you civilized?

 

[w1ndscar]

Wait, so we can get arrested by posting negative things about others on facebook? Your kidding right?

 

[JDKJ]

nononononononono

Presuming he did this at home there is no call at all for any authority barring his parents to do anything about this. If he gets public ridicule or something whatever. This is free speech and this isn't within a school's domain

Actually, from what I read of the OP's article, some of the conduct in question did occur on school grounds during school hours. And it may not be free speech. The Supreme Court has recognized that while minor students don't leave their First Amendment rights at the schoolhouse doors, the school administration does have a substantial interest in regulating student conduct in order to ensure an environment conducive to their educational mission. In short, students in school do have free speech rights but those rights are not as complete as the rights of adults in the public square.

Yes. By all means, expel him. He may even be subject to suit. But is this really worthy of a 3-month investigation and criminal charges? It just seems like harassment to me.

Given that this occurs in a small village/township with a population of around 50,000 souls with less than 6% total population below the poverty line, I'm assuming the law enforcement resources aren't exactly overtaxed solving homicides, armed robberies, and other major crimes.

I meant harassment by the DA, with this idiot as the victim.

Edit: And apparently you realized what I was saying, because you edited that out... ninja'd.

I didn't edit a thing. And there's no proof that I did.

Just kidding. I did. But if I didn't admit to it, you'd never be able to prove it. : P

This falls under the Cook County DA's jurisdiction. Cook County, unlike the Oak Park P.D., has better things to do than prosecute this bullshit (the City of Chicago (the third largest in the nation) falls within their jurisdiction). I'd be very surprised if they didn't quickly toss this one in the wastepaper basket.

 

[MasterChief892039]

In a loud voice he railed against women, accusing them of ?trying to take over the world.? He is captured on one cell phone video hollering, ?Women are the future, unless we stop them now,? as he danced around to a cheering crowd of students.

The kid's not just an asshole, he's also got a nice heaping load of misogyny brewing away in his head. Does he deserve to go to prison? Perhaps not, "free speech" and all that. But expulsion from the school is definitely not enough. Sure, it gets him out of the school and away from the women he was harassing, but it doesn't fix the problem. He needs some heavy duty counselling because his attitudes toward women are not healthy.

His crime is being a stupid teenage boy not realizing he's in a pop-feminized society that considers hurting girls' feelings a criminal offense and any comment on female sexuality as rape.

That sounds like some paranoid BS to me.