Teleportation, how would it work exactly?

[YukoValis]

the thing is you are moving matter by breaking it down and forming it somewhere else. You will be then dead, and a clone would be in your place.

 

[GothmogII]

I was orignally a fan of just sending over the data of the person to another place that they're going to, and just making a copy of them and delete the person on the sending end. Thus in basic principle having teleported the person and only needs the sending of a signel via some extremely high speed broadband.

This theory has 2 giant flaws that make it impossible though

1 - Its impossible to know a particles position and velocity at the same time so how you would copy something thats impossible to know would be a problem.

2 - It assumes that a person is completely made up of the physical atoms that construct them, and that all people are is an arrangement of atoms and therefore if you create the arrangement somewhere else then you have moved the person, or dulicated the person if you dont delete the original.

Scary thing about that type, essentially, -you- die, yes, for all intents and purposes the duplicate is now you. But the really horrifying thing is this: Your conciousness? Isn't it gone forever?

Well thats the thing as to what your conciousness is made up of, it all depends on whether a human being is a 100% physical being and therefore everything that is you, including your conciousness thoughts etc would be moved. However if there is a soul or some sort of spiritual side of life then you wouldnt be copying that with the reconstruction on the other side and the body you create there might just flop to the floor lifeless. What we need is rigorous scientific experimentation to find out the answer, and then we'd be one step closer to finding out more about ourselves. Shame the technology required is so far advanced that its impossible, not to mention possibly impossibly due to my first point in my early post.

Actually. I'm not really much of a theist, or even believer of non corporeal things in general. However, I can come to an acceptance of the 'soul' or 'conciousness' as something that beyond religious thinking, isn't something has been properly in a scientific way, maybe it can't be.

The reason matter dis-assembly and copying scares me so is as follows.

I treat my body as a whole, made of components. Like files on a disc. Now, let's say I copy those files onto another disc. Now, both discs are whole, and identical. They can be in the same room, and read on the same computers, or different computers at the same time. Now, what happens if I destroy the first disc? Everything that was that me is now gone, dead, destroyed. But the second one is still there intact. My reasoning is, if both the original and the copy can both exist, than that means essentially, the soul or conciousness is not simply transferred, but a copy down to the last minute detail. The copy is now the other me, and only me, and the I as I was is now dead and gone.

I don't know...I'm actually not scared of dying, but there was something about watching shows like Star Trek where this type was applied. And the dawning realisation and horror that no, that was not Captain Picard. At least, not the original him. And yet things continued on because, there was only that him, his former scattered into nothingness.

But as you've said...these things are way beyond our ken at this time. I for one am glad for it, no matter how interesting it may be.

 

[Eldritch Warlord]

Problem with that is the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, no-one can ever know exactly where a molecule is or how fast/what direct it's moving, the conversion back would be practically and theoretically impossible. Not even supercomputers can work it out....yet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle

1 - Its impossible to know a particles position and velocity at the same time so how you would copy something thats impossible to know would be a problem.

The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle is not a physical law. It is merely an observation on the limitations of detection based on matter-energy interactions (the act of observing something changes it). If we could observe something without something else crashing into it (perhaps by measuring space-time curvature) there would be no uncertainty problem.

I myself prescribe to a "close-enough" approach. You don't need to know the exact location and velocity of every election or the configuration of every nucleus. How many and the location and velocity of the atom should be close enough. The only real problem with this is the nervous system, the effects on its function would be unpredictable (as a complete reset of the brain is unprecedented), but I never said I could build a teleporter.

EDIT: OP, Dune's foldspace is essentially the same as Star Trek's warp drive. Compressing space to make travel quicker. Foldspace more like the arbitrary idea of what teleportation is (especially in that it can pass through solid barriers) but the physical ship still physically moves through space.

 

[Anarchemitis]

I like my theory on how the Teleporters work in the Half-Life 2 universe, with all their special spinning properties.
I theorize that all physical objects have a specific constraint to this universe that has 100% influence on them remaining in their location in space, and the teleporters change that reference to themselves, (Telep. A) and electronically switch the one you're close to as the reference (Telep. A) to Telep. B, automatically and instantaneously translating your reference to the space, apart from time. Then the teleporter is switched off for a brief moment, relieving the device of the reference, back to the universe.
Summarically, you're an ant living on a rock. If the rock is electronically told it is now in a different location, you're instantly there too, because you the ant, are inextricably bound to the rock.

That's a pretty cool theory... I wonder how it avoids the problem of Xen though? In HL2 they were talking about how they have to swing past Xen and they figured out how they could do that... any idea how your version gets around the border world?

Teleporting is sort of like drifting a car. You have to swing around the Borderworld.

 

[sky14kemea]

teleportation is visiting a really old building in germany and going exploring while your friend sits on the stairs, then finding a lift in a corner of a corridor and going up a floor, then passing your friend on the stairs twice from the same direction each time XD
that freaked her out

but seriously, isnt teleportation just breaking an object down into particles and reassembling them somewhere else?

 

[Rocksa]

Conversion of matter into energy and vice versa. In Star Trek for example, their transporters convert the human body into energy and send that (radio wave style) to its destination to be transformed back into matter.

Actually, I always thought it worked more like a big copy machine. You step into the teleporter, they scan you, transmit that data to the teleporter location, you're reconstructed, life goes on.

The only problem with this is that they copy your data.

Think about that a moment.

You step into the teleporter, you're copied and silmultaneously destroyed, I mean just completely vaporized, and in Star Trek lore you'll probably have those cells and atoms that were you used to make coffee and tea out of a replicator. So even though you can see it as your copy, that you are living on still with your mind intact and everything, even if you reject any idea or notion of a soul, then think of this, you're still going to die a horrible death from being torn apart atom by atom. Your copy won't know this, but you will. And think of it this way, you go out and clone yourself Sixth Day style, you see your clone grow, scan your mind, download it into the thing, even say hi to it. It stabs you. Are you still not dying? Is that still not something that isn't you walking around pretending to be you?

And while talking about this, wasn't there an episode of Next Generation where they addressed this very issue more or less. It featured, as I recall, Ryker going through the teleporter and there being some malfunction where he 'teleported' but the real him (although at that point this wasn't the real him since that guy was torn apart years ago) wasn't vaporized and used as spare parts for replicating socket wrenches.

 

[Singularly Datarific]

In the fly (I could be mistaken, ive not seen it in years) He is taken apart molecule by molecule and put back together at the other end.

Sounds painful.
I think that portals are the way to go, as it just shortens the trip rather than blasts you apart.

 

[philosophicalbastard]

I'm just going to share my personal opinion on ship teleportation. If a ship were to travel past the speed of light the easiest way to do this I can think of is to create miniature worm hole. Then direct a large amount of energy toward the worm hole which would expand exponentially. The worm hole would engulf the ship and cut off the flow of energy, it would then collapse in on itself forcing the ship to the other end of the worm hole. This would happen almost instantaniously making it seem like teleportation.


(This is just a theory and I don't think it would have that much of a chance of succeeding, even if it did it would most likely kill the crew and destroy the ship.)

 

[teisjm]

I think it's like OMG IM HERE, NOW IM HERE, NOW HERE can't touch me na nanana dum dum, dum dum can't touch me...

 

[pffh]

Simple you are destroyed on one end and then recreated at the other. After all we are just matter and matter = energy.

 

[slyywiskers]

i know one you have missed

i forgot the books name sorry; neal asher; runicible network: works by sling shot in person object at an incredible speed to a waiting runicible to slow and stop them/it

EDIT: by the way, there must also be no obstcles in the way, unless there are more runicibles to use as as waypoints.

in the book the system is open to everyone

also from the same book the occurance of steping through u-space (under space) somthing no human can accomplish without dying or going insane not to metion the fact they are unable to attempt it in the first place, although one human can.

i would describe more but it would spoil the book

 

[WilliamWhite1]

Molecular transmutation.

 

[NeutralDrow]

For a non-science fiction example, there's at least two and a half sorts used in Wheel of Time, depending on what power one calls upon and what they're trying to do. For instant-travel gateways, it's explained that male channelers essentially take two areas in space, put them together, and rip a pathway between them (basically the "wormhole" theory that's been mentioned), whereas female channelers instead render two points in space identical to each other, step through to the other side, and close the gate.

I feel like bringing up the Virtual Adepts and the Correspondence Sphere from Mage: The Ascension...

You step into the teleporter, you're copied and silmultaneously destroyed, I mean just completely vaporized, and in Star Trek lore you'll probably have those cells and atoms that were you used to make coffee and tea out of a replicator. So even though you can see it as your copy, that you are living on still with your mind intact and everything, even if you reject any idea or notion of a soul, then think of this, you're still going to die a horrible death from being torn apart atom by atom. Your copy won't know this, but you will. And think of it this way, you go out and clone yourself Sixth Day style, you see your clone grow, scan your mind, download it into the thing, even say hi to it. It stabs you. Are you still not dying? Is that still not something that isn't you walking around pretending to be you?

The idea disturbed me, too, until I came up with a different rationalization for it. Not quite sure where I got it, but if one accepts a hypothesis that a consciousness is a unique combination, and that in theory a perfect teleportation comes up with an exact copy, including all the biology and memory that comprises that consciousness, one can conclude that one's consciousness will, in fact, inhabit the new form.

To put it shortly, instead of dying and creating a identical clone as a replacement, one dies temporarily in the copying process and reincarnates into the copy.

In the case of a Star Trek style Riker scenario...well, your consciousness would be split two ways, and things would get mightily confusing until the two of you learn to cope or one of you actually dies.

 

[Rocksa]

For a non-science fiction example, there's at least two and a half sorts used in Wheel of Time, depending on what power one calls upon and what they're trying to do. For instant-travel gateways, it's explained that male channelers essentially take two areas in space, put them together, and rip a pathway between them (basically the "wormhole" theory that's been mentioned), whereas female channelers instead render two points in space identical to each other, step through to the other side, and close the gate.

I feel like bringing up the Virtual Adepts and the Correspondence Sphere from Mage: The Ascension...

You step into the teleporter, you're copied and silmultaneously destroyed, I mean just completely vaporized, and in Star Trek lore you'll probably have those cells and atoms that were you used to make coffee and tea out of a replicator. So even though you can see it as your copy, that you are living on still with your mind intact and everything, even if you reject any idea or notion of a soul, then think of this, you're still going to die a horrible death from being torn apart atom by atom. Your copy won't know this, but you will. And think of it this way, you go out and clone yourself Sixth Day style, you see your clone grow, scan your mind, download it into the thing, even say hi to it. It stabs you. Are you still not dying? Is that still not something that isn't you walking around pretending to be you?

The idea disturbed me, too, until I came up with a different rationalization for it. Not quite sure where I got it, but if one accepts a hypothesis that a consciousness is a unique combination, and that in theory a perfect teleportation comes up with an exact copy, including all the biology and memory that comprises that consciousness, one can conclude that one's consciousness will, in fact, inhabit the new form.

To put it shortly, instead of dying and creating a identical clone as a replacement, one dies temporarily in the copying process and reincarnates into the copy.

In the case of a Star Trek style Riker scenario...well, your consciousness would be split two ways, and things would get mightily confusing until the two of you learn to cope or one of you actually dies.

Still, even with an exact identical copy as you describe, there's still the issue of you dying. But I can see your point, if it's less of a copy here and more of a transferrence of your actual consciousness. A bit like the example somebody posted above about the two hard drives and the computers. Have a computer, build one exactly like it, copy all files over to that harddrive and you end up with the same computer, more or less. Everything contained in the old one that made it what it was is simply moved.

It's a nice view.

Still, maybe it's me, maybe it's just a bit like a mental block to me, but it still seems somewhat horrifying, the whole bit about dying, even if it's only temporary and my consciousness or soul or whatever you want to call it, actually gets transferred into the new body instead of merely copied.

 

[Rushin]

It would involve a closet, a bowl of petunias, an x-ray machine, a white castle hamburger and no one can see you teleport or know you were trying to teleport including yourself. otherwise it won't work. It's just like flying in the Hitchiker series you have to try but not be aware of what is happening

 

[NeutralDrow]

For a non-science fiction example, there's at least two and a half sorts used in Wheel of Time, depending on what power one calls upon and what they're trying to do. For instant-travel gateways, it's explained that male channelers essentially take two areas in space, put them together, and rip a pathway between them (basically the "wormhole" theory that's been mentioned), whereas female channelers instead render two points in space identical to each other, step through to the other side, and close the gate.

I feel like bringing up the Virtual Adepts and the Correspondence Sphere from Mage: The Ascension...

You step into the teleporter, you're copied and silmultaneously destroyed, I mean just completely vaporized, and in Star Trek lore you'll probably have those cells and atoms that were you used to make coffee and tea out of a replicator. So even though you can see it as your copy, that you are living on still with your mind intact and everything, even if you reject any idea or notion of a soul, then think of this, you're still going to die a horrible death from being torn apart atom by atom. Your copy won't know this, but you will. And think of it this way, you go out and clone yourself Sixth Day style, you see your clone grow, scan your mind, download it into the thing, even say hi to it. It stabs you. Are you still not dying? Is that still not something that isn't you walking around pretending to be you?

The idea disturbed me, too, until I came up with a different rationalization for it. Not quite sure where I got it, but if one accepts a hypothesis that a consciousness is a unique combination, and that in theory a perfect teleportation comes up with an exact copy, including all the biology and memory that comprises that consciousness, one can conclude that one's consciousness will, in fact, inhabit the new form.

To put it shortly, instead of dying and creating a identical clone as a replacement, one dies temporarily in the copying process and reincarnates into the copy.

In the case of a Star Trek style Riker scenario...well, your consciousness would be split two ways, and things would get mightily confusing until the two of you learn to cope or one of you actually dies.

Still, even with an exact identical copy as you describe, there's still the issue of you dying. But I can see your point, if it's less of a copy here and more of a transferrence of your actual consciousness. A bit like the example somebody posted above about the two hard drives and the computers. Have a computer, build one exactly like it, copy all files over to that harddrive and you end up with the same computer, more or less. Everything contained in the old one that made it what it was is simply moved.

It's a nice view.

Still, maybe it's me, maybe it's just a bit like a mental block to me, but it still seems somewhat horrifying, the whole bit about dying, even if it's only temporary and my consciousness or soul or whatever you want to call it, actually gets transferred into the new body instead of merely copied.

Oh, hell yeah. The thought of dying at all, even temporarily, just to be able to travel large distances in short amounts of time is still a frightening idea. I can just sleep at night now that it's not quite as existentially terrifying...

 

[Inverse Skies]

Teleporting is sort of like drifting a car. You have to swing around the Borderworld.

Drifting a car? I've always imagined it as a straight line sort of warp thing - destination to original place lies on a straight line in a straight plane. I've never once considered the idea of it being in say an arc or something... that is quite a unique idea.

So you're saying that where you warp too depends on the angle of the swing you take? Ie every warp trajectory can be modeled as a parabolic vector or something like that? That would be a very good concept to warping.

 

[Rocksa]

Of course there's always the idea of a sub-space or a hyperspace. Kind of an alternate dimension that could be reached into where traveling a few feet would translate to traveling a few thousand miles in regular space. Not quite teleportation, but kind of close. In one of the X-men series they revealed that this was basically how Nightcrawlers teleporting worked, he'd shift to an alternate dimension, move a bit, and come back. Of course it was revealed that it was a horrifying hell dimension, but hey, it worked.

There's also the idea that's been mentioned, I do believe, about folding space, which would essentially involve causing two points in space time to temporarily exist in the same place at the same time, then they seperate, leaving the ship or person to go from point A to point B instantaneously. Of course the problem with this is that you probably end up piercing an alternate dimension at the same time here, and you end up with Event Horizon, where you open a gate to hell. Congratulations.

There was also a book that I read forever ago that talked about teleportation as not really moving you from point to point, but rather shifting you off to an identical alternate dimension where you haven't actually moved, but where everything is the same and your location is just different. Like if you went to another world where everything was the same and the only difference was that your keyboard was an inch to the left. Can't really think of a better example for it though.

 

[Dys]

I thought the idea of teleporting was based around transporting mass energy to light energy, sending it to a receiver and transforming it back to mass, exactly how it was with no energy loss (this would be somewhat impossible, so you would need huge amounts of power to compensate for the energy lost between transformations).

 

[Aardvark Soup]

Basically, a device would register the position and amount of all nucleons and electrons that make up your body, destroy your body and send a digital signal to another device that will reassemble you. I however doubt this will be practically possible.