Terminator Genisys

[Hawki]

By that logic though, doesn't T2 on its own invalidate T1? If Judgement Day can be prevented, there's no need for John Connor, meaning there's no need for Kyle Reese to go back in time. John Connor beats Skynet in the future. That's the whole point, and I like how T3 really hammered that home. T2 is a great action movie but its plot is kinda bullshit.

No, not really, or at least, not in my mind. Here's how I see the films:

T1: "No fate" is still relevant, given how Reese presents it to Sarah, because it reinforces that just because the future appears to be in the bag (Skynet will lose, John will win, etc.), that doesn't invalidate the necessity of her own actions. She can't cruise through this trial, or the years ahead, just assuming everything will work out. There was a tagline for T1 that "the greatest battle will be fought in the past" (or something similar), and if we take that as writ (which makes sense, since T1 does establish that Skynet's ploy with the Terminator was a last ditch effort), that still doesn't invalidate everything that came before.

T2: "No fate" becomes more relevant, because it allows the creation of a new future (there's the argument that T1 is also a new timeline as well, that at some point, John might have had a different father, but that's another issue). So, T2 ends with them averting JD, and at least in the context of the movie, permenantly preventing the nightmarish future that awaits and whatnot. I don't see that as invalidating T1 or the Future War. Sarah and Kyle had to fight, suffer, and in Kyle's case, die, to get to this point - it doesn't invalidate the events of that film. It doesn't invalidate how in a different timeline, 3 billion humans died, and the remnants of humanity had to fight a war to save their species. It doesn't invalidate the efforts of that John, in that timeline, to lead to a sequence of events that in this timeline, gives the world a better future. Basically, T2 still can't happen without T1, just as T1 can't happen without the Future War.

T3: "No fate" is either tossed out the window, or refuted. T3's take on things is that the future is set, or at least, set to the extent that events have to play out a certain way. That Judgement Day will always occur, John will always be leader of the Resistance, etc. Right from the start T3 takes the opposite approach to time travel that the previous two films do. It does so in a way that makes the last 20% of T2 arguably pointless, because from the moment on that Sarah drives off to kill Dyson, these events will have no impact par pushing JD ahead six years. Arguably, it makes their actions worse, because, at the very least, there's going to be more people in the world in 2003 than 1997, so more people get to die in nuclear fire. Salvation follows on from T3 and kinda establishes that, yes, delaying JD was a net negative for humanity, at least by 2018. So, T3 is written in such a way that a lot of T2 is invalidated. T2 doesn't invalidate T1, because all of T1 is required for T2, and the Future War is required for T1. T3 is based on the premise of T2 being unneeded at best, and disruptive to humanity at worst.

I'd be a bit more forgiving than that if the film wasn't an aping of T2. Not that T2 didn't follow a similar formula to T1 to at least some extent (assassin and protector both arrive, assassin and protector close in on target at the same time), but after that, T2 does diverge from T1. T3 follows T2 almost entirely in terms of its plot beats, only with not nearly as much grace (e.g. compare the minigun scene in T2 to the one in T3 - the former is beautifully shot, has great music, and serves as character development for "Uncle Bob" per the "0.0 human casualties" bar. The one in T3 lasts a few seconds, and has the T-850 simply flash "0.0 human casualties" - that isn't significant, because the T-850 has never been blase about human life. It's just a scene that's there for the "kewl" factor).

And again, Genisys also harps on the T1/T2 plot beats, but it does so in a way that's sold as the very basis of the plot - a Skynet from a very, very far future has altered the timeline, but events still have to play out in a certain way to some extent. T3 sells itself as being a natural progression of the timeline, so there isn't the same excuse for its plot being a retelling of T2's.

 

[Kolby Jack]

Snip.

It sounds to me like your grudge with T3 is mostly about how much "damage" it does to T2, and I think that for someone who thinks T2 is an amazing film, that would be valid and I have no problem with that point of view. But I didn't see T2 as a kid, only much later in life, and while I still think it's good, it's not quite as special to me as it is for many others, so I guess I can be a bit more forgiving to T3. As I hope I've made clear, I don't think T3 is better than the first two movies, I just think it's not as bad as people like to say. I enjoyed it.

As for the timelines stuff... I try not to delve too deep into arguments involving multiple timelines. Time travel is always a messy plot device and I rarely ever see any debate come to a satisfying conclusion.

 

[DoPo]

To me, it was an OK but forgettable blockbuster that got hated more because of the name than anything (and I literally mean forgettable as I don't think I could tell you one thing about what happened in that movie...except the school bus flipping because I remember that from the trailer).

Coming to this thread I actually had to think quite hard to remember which one Genisys even was. I know I've watched both Terminator 4 and Genisys but I couldn't remember which was which. I resorted to reading through the thread to try and remind myself that it was the one which was "in the past" (or, well, current times. As opposed to the one which was in the future).

After I managed to remember that, I still had to expend mental effort in remembering what it was about. So, yeah - totally forgettable.

For the record, the other movie doesn't stand out that much, either. I remember it was in the future with some random guy who showed up and was made to be cooler than Kyle Reese. I do recall lots of Jesus symbolism was thrown around, too.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

By that logic though, doesn't T2 on its own invalidate T1?

In a sense, yes it does. However, they do explain it fairly logically. The main thing to consider is that prior to the arrival of any time-traveller into the past/present (when the movie is set), the world has progressed, Judgement Day (JD) happened, the Resistance happened and some people got sent back.

So, well before T1 we had a world that progressed right thru to the future. JD happened, the Resistance happened and John Connor threatened Skynet. So back went Kyle and the first Terminator. This is the point where the first movie starts so already we've had one timeline progress to a point where timetravel became possible and Skynet launched its plan to kill Sarah Connor. So the first movie plays out, Sarah survives, pregnant with John, Terminator destroyed.

At this point, the world again progressed through to the future where Skynet again came about. Now here is the first major plot hole. For whatever reason, Skynet somehow came about in an almost identical state to its first iteration, only this time it decides that targeting 12 y/o John is smarter than Sarah. Logically, you would think it would have come to the same conclusion as the first time. Regardless, back goes Arnie and T1000, and this is where T2 begins. We're told these events were possible because of the parts that survived from the first Terminator. This kinda makes sense, and certainly within the grand scheme of things it's logical enough that I think the story holds up fine. At the end, both terminators and all evidence of their existence, all research is melted or blown up and the world then progresses.

Now it starts to fall apart. T3 shows that another Skynet came about completely independently. Perhaps it was always the precursor to it but it does contradict everything from T1 and T2. And this time, two terminators are sent back to fight adult John....why? Why wouldn't skynet in T2's future timeline have concluded the same thing as either of its first two iterations? This is where I start to lose my ability to believe. The story is trying to maintain continuity in a series about time travel. It wants to say that the events of the films had effects on the future, but then undermines that by making a sequel where a Connor is still being hunted by a terminator sent back in time by Skynet.

After T3, the franchise basically became more comic book than sci fi movie. The first movie had a philosophical tone in the cold, calculating nature of a machine. The second was even better, with themes of fate and destiny, changing our nature, even a sort of religious allegory kinda. They were both sublime, supremely crafted films with great themes, action and atmosphere. We could forgive T2 breaking its own lore with sending back the T1000, for example. But T3 it all began falling apart. The birth of Skynet each time undermined the events of prior films and also pushed our ability to suspend disbelief and follow the events logically.

 

[Callate]

It was a mess. The whole business with nanites felt like something a child would come up with when asked "how would you make a Terminator even more awesomer than the previous ones"... A child with only the vaguest idea of what nanites are or how they might work.

(And I think if they insist on making still another Terminator movie, they desperately need to come up with something other than, "and then, Skynet's sub-sub-sub-sub-contingency plan...")

But, that said, I agree with Metalix Knightmare. While Terminator: Salvation still exists, Genisys is not the worst Terminator movie out there. Genisys wasn't a particularly good movie, but I came home from Salvation and wrote two pages which included the phrases "...we slowly descend from 'my suspension of disbelief is breaking' to 'my suspension of disbelief is being kneed repeatedly in the groin'" and "If Skynet can get its act together, this war really ought to be more or less over in about a month".

 

[Hawki]

It sounds to me like your grudge with T3 is mostly about how much "damage" it does to T2, and I think that for someone who thinks T2 is an amazing film, that would be valid and I have no problem with that point of view. But I didn't see T2 as a kid, only much later in life, and while I still think it's good, it's not quite as special to me as it is for many others, so I guess I can be a bit more forgiving to T3. As I hope I've made clear, I don't think T3 is better than the first two movies, I just think it's not as bad as people like to say. I enjoyed it.

Well, partly, I just don't think that T3 is particuarly good on its own merits either. And I actually saw the first Terminator films in my late teens, after T3 came out (I forget the exact order), in close proximity to each other, so I don't really have any nostalgia for T2 or T1 over T3.

But that's just me. I've no problem with people liking/disliking T3, or any other movie.

 

[Natemans]

The issue is that story-wise, this movie doesn't stand up to even the tiniest amount of scrutiny. Finding goofs and plot holes in films is normally something only the most eagle-eyed/observant viewers pick up on and share with everyone else...here, the glaring issues are readily apparent to all. The story makes almost no sense, contradicts not only other Terminator films, but itself, several times. The action is fine, the acting is fine, but the story was terrible and the writing is often so bad, even the characters in the film tell the other to stop talking. The films "big twist" with John Conner is rendered worthless by being set in the past at a point in time when he isn't even born yet.

The issue in a sense comes down to time travel. The first movie worked, but everything after that made very little sense logically, and subsequent films suffer from trying to keep the lore. T2 at least had the benefit of being a bloody brilliant movie and having the grace to explain how it was still possible. T3 gave up on trying entirely.

Oh yeah, the past thing with John Conner was the biggest plot hole for Genisys.

Seriously how does future John Conner still exist since Kyle Reese and Sarah Conner time traveled from 1984 to 2017 which is past the point she would be impregnated and gave birth to John? How does he still exist?

Also why do they need to go forward in time? Why not just stay where they are and freakin' wait for the event to happen? If its about changing time, they were already changing time before they went forward. That's how time works!

 

[Hawki]

Seriously how does future John Conner still exist since Kyle Reese and Sarah Conner time traveled from 1984 to 2017 which is past the point she would be impregnated and gave birth to John? How does he still exist?

That's explained within the film, or at least, John expresses the view that they're no longer bound by causality (the "wanders in time" idea). It is backed up by John stating that Pops is from a negated timeline. So, basically, the John Connor that's depicted in the film owes his existence to the Sarah Connor and Kyle Reese of the original timeline, while in this new timeline, he can kill Sarah and Kyle without erasing himself.

Also why do they need to go forward in time? Why not just stay where they are and freakin' wait for the event to happen? If its about changing time, they were already changing time before they went forward. That's how time works!

Some points:

-It's dubious how much information Sarah has at this point in time, only the information that JD is meant to occur in 1997 - apparently she doesn't know that the original date was based on reverse engineering the tech of the original T-800. So while that T-800 is destroyed early, they don't know it was the original catalyst.

-Given that Kyle gives information that JD occurs in 2017 by his own recollection, they have an incentive to travel through time, to some extent, considering that they're not going to be in prime physical shape 30 years later.

-That Sarah is trying to build a time machine at all instead of waiting for the perceived 1997 date does tie in with how her character is presented in the movie, as I explained above. This is a Sarah who hasn't reached the fatalism that her alternate self had in T2, and gives the sense of just wanting to be done with this whole thing. So, skipping ahead to the future and stopping JD then, rather than spending more years of her life in mental hell, does fit with how her character is portrayed - stop JD, and get her life back. Now, ideally, you'd want to give yourself far more breathing room with time travel (say, a few years), but it does mesh with how her character is presented.

 

[Derekloffin]

Oh yeah, the past thing with John Conner was the biggest plot hole for Genisys.

Seriously how does future John Conner still exist since Kyle Reese and Sarah Conner time traveled from 1984 to 2017 which is past the point she would be impregnated and gave birth to John? How does he still exist?

That's actually been a problem with the proposed time travel theory from moment one meaning they have been wrong uptil now when John says it doesn't matter. Think of it this way, going back all the way to T1. We know Reese did not go simultaneously back with the T1 Terminator. He was sent later, but that doesn't make sense with a single timeline theory for the exact same reasons you just said. The instant that T1 Terminator went back, John Conner should have ceased to exist, the war likely would have been lost, and Skynet would never even consider the need to send back a Terminator, although perhaps it could have programmed the original to report to it later to do so, but regardless, Reese should never have had the opportunity to go back. So, the only conclusion we can come to is that Reese's timeline remained intact despite the change giving him that opportunity which means multiple timelines are in effect, or there is some kind of temporal lagtime but we see no evidence of this. This of course creates its own problem though, if we trace all these time travel jumps back, one of them had to have Reese come back with no John, at least not the John that is Reese's son.

Now if I were to try and explain all this nonsense, I would use exactly that. At the very beginning the 'John' character was someone totally different. Skynet arose naturally with no need of future intervention and the battle occurred. Skynet sent a Terminator back in time creating a new terrible timeline we never see where humanity is wiped out. However from the original timeline its Reese is sent back, but only to stop the Terminator from killing the original 'John's mother, not to be John, because this John had another father. However, during this jump Reese ends up with Sarah and creates the first version of John Conner we are familiar with, inadvertently ensuring the original John never comes to be created, but fulfilling the same role effectively creating a 3rd timeline. Likewise, the destroyed Terminator also changes the way Skynet arises... almost like these two are parallels. Now the 3rd timeline moves forward to the point of the future where Skynet started this nonsense and the whole process repeats, but now with Reese sent back to be John's father and at earliest this is when T1 when take place on this first repeat loop. Regardless though, this creates timelines 4 and 5, similar to 2 and 3 but now based on the original change.

Now timeline 5 may have directly changed, or we may have looped countless timeless times with countless minor variation until we finally reach T2 and Skynet changes strategy one loop and sends two terminators back, and now two defenders are sent back, each creating their own timelines, a total of 4, 1 for each terminator going back, 1 for each defender going back. So that is minimum of timelines 6 (where first terminator only goes back), 7 (where both terminators go back), 8 (where Reese goes back) and 9 (where Reese and the good Terminator goes back), although timelines 7 and 8 may be reversed. T2 would be timeline 9. However, sadly, T2's ending just has us regress back to the original way Skynet arose. Not much point in counting timelines at this point, but you get the idea there are a lot of them.

So now we're onto T3. In timeline 9's future, Skynet sends back the latest terminator and the others too that creates yet more timelines, but again a defender is sent back for each creating yet more timelines (so now we're upto 6 more each loop). The events of T3 and salvation would take place in these loops.

Now eventually things get odd as one loop Skynet alters its 2nd attack, instead of sending the T-1000 further ahead, it sends it further back. This leads us into Genisys which has to be the first time this happened. Skynet altered strategy and sent back its two terminators but in the opposite order, T-1000 earlier in the timeline. John, still thinking they're in a single timeline, sends Reese back to his original intended destination which is Genisys takes place. Corrupted John will then later come back himself as he realizes the truth that the timelines are many.

Now there is a slight issue here in that the last defending Terminator has been sent back by a mysterious party, potentially not John. This actually makes sense with Genisys as in the future John was Corrupted just as Reese was sent back so he never had the opportunity. But then the question is who sent the defending terminator back? A mystery we'll probably never have revealed I suspect.


Funny enough, this could explain why we have so many different actors playing the parts as they aren't the same people genetically despite filling the same historical role... well save Sarah, but hey maybe there was even more attempts that went further back. We could even bring in the TV series in there somewhere as there is lots of potential timelines for it to spawn from.

 

[Natemans]

Oh yeah, the past thing with John Conner was the biggest plot hole for Genisys.

Seriously how does future John Conner still exist since Kyle Reese and Sarah Conner time traveled from 1984 to 2017 which is past the point she would be impregnated and gave birth to John? How does he still exist?

That's actually been a problem with the proposed time travel theory from moment one meaning they have been wrong uptil now when John says it doesn't matter. Think of it this way, going back all the way to T1. We know Reese did not go simultaneously back with the T1 Terminator. He was sent later, but that doesn't make sense with a single timeline theory for the exact same reasons you just said. The instant that T1 Terminator went back, John Conner should have ceased to exist, the war likely would have been lost, and Skynet would never even consider the need to send back a Terminator, although perhaps it could have programmed the original to report to it later to do so, but regardless, Reese should never have had the opportunity to go back. So, the only conclusion we can come to is that Reese's timeline remained intact despite the change giving him that opportunity which means multiple timelines are in effect, or there is some kind of temporal lagtime but we see no evidence of this. This of course creates its own problem though, if we trace all these time travel jumps back, one of them had to have Reese come back with no John, at least not the John that is Reese's son.

Now if I were to try and explain all this nonsense, I would use exactly that. At the very beginning the 'John' character was someone totally different. Skynet arose naturally with no need of future intervention and the battle occurred. Skynet sent a Terminator back in time creating a new terrible timeline we never see where humanity is wiped out. However from the original timeline its Reese is sent back, but only to stop the Terminator from killing the original 'John's mother, not to be John, because this John had another father. However, during this jump Reese ends up with Sarah and creates the first version of John Conner we are familiar with, inadvertently ensuring the original John never comes to be created, but fulfilling the same role effectively creating a 3rd timeline. Likewise, the destroyed Terminator also changes the way Skynet arises... almost like these two are parallels. Now the 3rd timeline moves forward to the point of the future where Skynet started this nonsense and the whole process repeats, but now with Reese sent back to be John's father and at earliest this is when T1 when take place on this first repeat loop. Regardless though, this creates timelines 4 and 5, similar to 2 and 3 but now based on the original change.

Now timeline 5 may have directly changed, or we may have looped countless timeless times with countless minor variation until we finally reach T2 and Skynet changes strategy one loop and sends two terminators back, and now two defenders are sent back, each creating their own timelines, a total of 4, 1 for each terminator going back, 1 for each defender going back. So that is minimum of timelines 6 (where first terminator only goes back), 7 (where both terminators go back), 8 (where Reese goes back) and 9 (where Reese and the good Terminator goes back), although timelines 7 and 8 may be reversed. T2 would be timeline 9. However, sadly, T2's ending just has us regress back to the original way Skynet arose. Not much point in counting timelines at this point, but you get the idea there are a lot of them.

So now we're onto T3. In timeline 9's future, Skynet sends back the latest terminator and the others too that creates yet more timelines, but again a defender is sent back for each creating yet more timelines (so now we're upto 6 more each loop). The events of T3 and salvation would take place in these loops.

Now eventually things get odd as one loop Skynet alters its 2nd attack, instead of sending the T-1000 further ahead, it sends it further back. This leads us into Genisys which has to be the first time this happened. Skynet altered strategy and sent back its two terminators but in the opposite order, T-1000 earlier in the timeline. John, still thinking they're in a single timeline, sends Reese back to his original intended destination which is Genisys takes place. Corrupted John will then later come back himself as he realizes the truth that the timelines are many.

Now there is a slight issue here in that the last defending Terminator has been sent back by a mysterious party, potentially not John. This actually makes sense with Genisys as in the future John was Corrupted just as Reese was sent back so he never had the opportunity. But then the question is who sent the defending terminator back? A mystery we'll probably never have revealed I suspect.


Funny enough, this could explain why we have so many different actors playing the parts as they aren't the same people genetically despite filling the same historical role... well save Sarah, but hey maybe there was even more attempts that went further back. We could even bring in the TV series in there somewhere as there is lots of potential timelines for it to spawn from.

If we had to fix this plot hole, we could change a few details to fix it. Have the two go through waiting for the year 2017, get together so John can be born. As for the John Conner twist, I would have changed it a bit to show that they can save John at the end from this issue or that they find the real John Conner and the one they are fighting is just a fake who is just messing with them. Because to be honest, the whole turn John Conner evil thing kinda goes against the whole point of this series.

 

[Hawk of Battle]

Oh yeah, the past thing with John Conner was the biggest plot hole for Genisys.

Seriously how does future John Conner still exist since Kyle Reese and Sarah Conner time traveled from 1984 to 2017 which is past the point she would be impregnated and gave birth to John? How does he still exist?

That's actually been a problem with the proposed time travel theory from moment one meaning they have been wrong uptil now when John says it doesn't matter. Think of it this way, going back all the way to T1. We know Reese did not go simultaneously back with the T1 Terminator. He was sent later, but that doesn't make sense with a single timeline theory for the exact same reasons you just said. The instant that T1 Terminator went back, John Conner should have ceased to exist, the war likely would have been lost, and Skynet would never even consider the need to send back a Terminator, although perhaps it could have programmed the original to report to it later to do so, but regardless, Reese should never have had the opportunity to go back. So, the only conclusion we can come to is that Reese's timeline remained intact despite the change giving him that opportunity which means multiple timelines are in effect, or there is some kind of temporal lagtime but we see no evidence of this. This of course creates its own problem though, if we trace all these time travel jumps back, one of them had to have Reese come back with no John, at least not the John that is Reese's son.

Now if I were to try and explain all this nonsense, I would use exactly that. At the very beginning the 'John' character was someone totally different. Skynet arose naturally with no need of future intervention and the battle occurred. Skynet sent a Terminator back in time creating a new terrible timeline we never see where humanity is wiped out. However from the original timeline its Reese is sent back, but only to stop the Terminator from killing the original 'John's mother, not to be John, because this John had another father. However, during this jump Reese ends up with Sarah and creates the first version of John Conner we are familiar with, inadvertently ensuring the original John never comes to be created, but fulfilling the same role effectively creating a 3rd timeline. Likewise, the destroyed Terminator also changes the way Skynet arises... almost like these two are parallels. Now the 3rd timeline moves forward to the point of the future where Skynet started this nonsense and the whole process repeats, but now with Reese sent back to be John's father and at earliest this is when T1 when take place on this first repeat loop. Regardless though, this creates timelines 4 and 5, similar to 2 and 3 but now based on the original change.

Now timeline 5 may have directly changed, or we may have looped countless timeless times with countless minor variation until we finally reach T2 and Skynet changes strategy one loop and sends two terminators back, and now two defenders are sent back, each creating their own timelines, a total of 4, 1 for each terminator going back, 1 for each defender going back. So that is minimum of timelines 6 (where first terminator only goes back), 7 (where both terminators go back), 8 (where Reese goes back) and 9 (where Reese and the good Terminator goes back), although timelines 7 and 8 may be reversed. T2 would be timeline 9. However, sadly, T2's ending just has us regress back to the original way Skynet arose. Not much point in counting timelines at this point, but you get the idea there are a lot of them.

So now we're onto T3. In timeline 9's future, Skynet sends back the latest terminator and the others too that creates yet more timelines, but again a defender is sent back for each creating yet more timelines (so now we're upto 6 more each loop). The events of T3 and salvation would take place in these loops.

Now eventually things get odd as one loop Skynet alters its 2nd attack, instead of sending the T-1000 further ahead, it sends it further back. This leads us into Genisys which has to be the first time this happened. Skynet altered strategy and sent back its two terminators but in the opposite order, T-1000 earlier in the timeline. John, still thinking they're in a single timeline, sends Reese back to his original intended destination which is Genisys takes place. Corrupted John will then later come back himself as he realizes the truth that the timelines are many.

Now there is a slight issue here in that the last defending Terminator has been sent back by a mysterious party, potentially not John. This actually makes sense with Genisys as in the future John was Corrupted just as Reese was sent back so he never had the opportunity. But then the question is who sent the defending terminator back? A mystery we'll probably never have revealed I suspect.


Funny enough, this could explain why we have so many different actors playing the parts as they aren't the same people genetically despite filling the same historical role... well save Sarah, but hey maybe there was even more attempts that went further back. We could even bring in the TV series in there somewhere as there is lots of potential timelines for it to spawn from.

^This man. This man gets it. Not sure I'm quite following ALL of your loops there (probably because this shit needs visual aides, like a series of flowcharts or an animated graphic of every series of events that occurs), but this does seem to be the closest we get to having the timelines of the series make sense.

I've always believed there must have been an original timeline where Skynet was created naturally, and then timetravel occurred resulting in it either being created earlier, or an opposing force emerged ("John Connor") which started us off on these repeat loops, with minor changes each time. The changes are easy enough to explain if we assume that "John" and maybe even "Reese" are different people in each loop, which with JD being postponed by years in some cases might naturally result in "Reeses" parents conceiving at a different time, or maybe even living different lives with different people, but still using the same first name for their son, who then goes back and conceives of "John", whom Sarah raises as the future savior, but then by her own actions delays JD which in turn causes a different "Reese" to be born, who is now genetically different enough to eventually go back and father a different "John", and so forth.

This can also offer an explanation as to why Skynet in each loop might make different decisions as well; if JDs timeline is messed with, then humans have more time to build infrastructure and invent different technologies which might not have been present in an earlier iteration. The first time we're given a date of when JD occurred is 1997, at which point it was being designed during a time when dial up was the best you could get internet wise, and most people didn't even have that. The next loop, due to the delay, JD happens in 2004 instead, during a period where the internet is widespread, large scale infrastructure has been implemented and far, far more machines are linked worldwide. It stands to reason that an emergent Skynet from 2004 would be more advanced and widespread, and could easily advance itself even faster from this point on, and start sednding back more advanced machines each time. We then have the original terminators damaged chip and arm that Cyberdyne recovered. Assuming that that unit is always destroyed by Sarah in each loop, yet each version is progressively more advanced in each loop, then Cyberdynes research is also going to be altered accordingly, further compounding the changes.

Really, that's the best way to describe the Terminator franchise; a bunch of endlessly looping temporal compounding errors, both genetic and mechanical, that cause different versions of the main protagonists ("John, "Reese" and perhaps even "Skynet" itself) to be born/created, and the differences between them causes further changes with each subsequent time loop. It's a really tangled knot, that somebody desperately needs to cut.

 

[FalloutJack]

You either like it or you loathe it. I like it. Not going into franchise discussion or anything like that. I was entertained. That's all that matters.