Texas v abortion

[CriticalGaming]

Everybody, and at a cheaper rate than that person not getting that birth control, statistically.

But why should they have to?

The insurance literally wouldn't cover my grandfather's immunosuppressants for his hearth transplant a drug that ran $1800 out of pocket per month.

If I have to put in money for something to get covered, I want it to be that! I want it to go to chemo drugs for people. Or fuck i want it to go to insulin for diabetics because insulin is fucking stupid expensive.

i don't want to pay extra money for a special birth control because that girl can't get her boyfriend to use a condom and she refuses to get a patch, pill, shot, diaphram, cervical cap, or any number of widely available and very cheap BC methods.

Look at it this way.

The pill, the patch, the shot, vaginal rings, plan B, caps, diaphrams all have a very low cost ranging from 0-$200 per month depending on coverage. Meanwhile all the implants, and various iuds are over $1000 when not covered, which a lot of them are, so most of this discussion is frankly moot.

But in the example you posted of the woman who couldn't use some of the other forms, there are still many cheap options that were never brought up in that article.


ALTERNATIVELY. I would be okay covering all the expensive BC's IF none of the cheap ones were covered. Buy your own pills, name brand pills are $50 a month and between two people that is plenty affordable. In return you can have your IUD covered.

 

[Gergar12]

And there goes Roe v Wade. By the way, this is basically class warfare. rich women can go to another state, and if the supreme court is really crazy; the country. I also suspect the declining US birthrates to be part of this because if I was a republican I would implement the Romanian option and try to make abortion as hard as possible if not illegal to increase population, and thus economic growth.

 

[Gordon_4]

89% of abortions are women over 20 years old. I understand being a stupid kid, but you are talking about stupid adults for the most part here. And maybe you can argue that 20 year olds are still kids and stupid, but at some point you can't just keep blindly fucking and use ignorance as an excuse. These are adults.

You have an age range, but that's all you have and frankly its not the most pertinent bit of data. The most important factor in that case would be the same as it is in a whodunnit: why. We don't know why these women are getting the abortions which is critical in my view to build an informed opinion on the matter.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

But why should they have to?

Do you want to save money or not?

The insurance literally wouldn't cover my grandfather's immunosuppressants for his hearth transplant a drug that ran $1800 out of pocket per month.

Yes? And? Therefore? Good reason to hammer insurance companies

If I have to put in money for something to get covered, I want it to be that! I want it to go to chemo drugs for people. Or fuck i want it to go to insulin for diabetics because insulin is fucking stupid expensive.

i don't want to pay extra money for a special birth control because that girl can't get her boyfriend to use a condom and she refuses to get a patch, pill, shot, diaphram, cervical cap, or any number of widely available and very cheap BC methods.

If they don't work or come with debilitating side effects, it doesn't matter how cheap they are

Look at it this way.

The pill, the patch, the shot, vaginal rings, plan B, caps, diaphrams all have a very low cost ranging from 0-$200 per month depending on coverage. Meanwhile all the implants, and various iuds are over $1000 when not covered, which a lot of them are, so most of this discussion is frankly moot.

But in the example you posted of the woman who couldn't use some of the other forms, there are still many cheap options that were never brought up in that article.

Yes, the article didn't cover literally every option available to every specific person on every individual variable plan. And?

ALTERNATIVELY. I would be okay covering all the expensive BC's IF none of the cheap ones were covered. Buy your own pills, name brand pills are $50 a month and between two people that is plenty affordable. In return you can have your IUD covered.

Why? What is the point of that?

 

[Buyetyen]

Want versus what's necessary is a different story. She can want an IUD all she wants, but if the pill works just fine for her and she doesn't medically need an IUD then there is no reason for it to be covered.

Why isn't wanting it enough?

And actually it turns out that IUD's and other birth controls have been covered by insurances since the Affordable Care Act in 2010. So 11 years ago BC became either super cheap or free. So now where do we go?

Better sex ed and family planning services, really.

i don't want to pay extra money for a special birth control because that girl can't get her boyfriend to use a condom and she refuses to get a patch, pill, shot, diaphram, cervical cap, or any number of widely available and very cheap BC methods.

When people tell you who they are, believe them.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

It's not "screw poor people", it sounds a bit like "screw promiscuous women having sex with everyone but me".

"They should keep themselves pure for me, because otherwise they might actually know how bad I am in bed."

How would you feel if I took you to lunch at Mcdonald's, then took your friend to lunch at an expensive steakhouse right afterwards. I bet you'd be pretty annoyed wouldn't you.

You're comparing this to eating at restaurants. Have you ever spoken to a woman in your life?

 

[Elijin]

Anyone noticing the underlying note of "People should be punished for being sexually active" in one side of this back and forth?

 

[Trunkage]

Well, there's a lot going on here. Just going to do a round of items I want to list

1) abortions rate have been going down steadily since Roe. It's a gradually decreasing problem
2) there was a dip in abortion rates in 2013... due to the ACA. If you dont want to pay for it. Fine. Pay for the extra abortions then. Your choice
3) there is a form of rape in other countries called stealthing. It's some f'ed up BS and maybe look it up
4) Pretending it's 'the woman who needs to force the man to wear condoms' is fucking abhorrent. Men need to take responsibility if that's what the woman asks for instead of arguing against it, trying to manipulate them instead of helping
5) we're still pushing all responsibility of children and birth control onto women, are we? And you wonder why women are angry...
6) I would always recommend IUD over any pill. It's significantly more effective and realiable.
7) A 20 year old is highly unlikely to earn enough to cover anything healrh care wise. Let alone birth contol. There is a reason why medical insurance covers people up to 25
8) In my country, the brought in a General Service Tax on all items. Essential items had the tax removed. Example are food, toilet paper etc. Another example was razors and shaving cream. One that wasn't an example was tampons... because there was mainly men making the rules.
I bring this up to make a point that complaining about 'women shouldn't get this' has got way more to do with your identity politics than reality

 

[Trunkage]

9) im not playing the game of 'choose your medication the government pays for'. All those items are important. Find the money. Tax more or cut somewhere else

 

[Elvis Starburst]

i don't want to pay extra money for a special birth control because that girl can't get her boyfriend to use a condom and she refuses to get a patch, pill, shot, diaphram, cervical cap, or any number of widely available and very cheap BC methods.

Isn't this similar to the anti-free healthcare argument I see a lot of people make in places like the US, except with different wording? The whole "I don't want to pay extra for other people's problems" thing? Granted, you're talking about covering very specific things compared to other available procedures. However, medically, there's tons of different procedures in order to attempt to solve a single problem. And yet places like here in Canada somehow manages to cover all of them, like some sort of magic out of Harry fucking Potter, and it works great for us.

I'd be stunned and amazed if I heard someone who is born and raised here say "I don't like universal healthcare! I don't wanna pay for people to get *insert medical procedure*, I don't like that one!" No doubt they'd change their tune the instant they'd need something covered that someone decided was one of the arbitrarily chosen things that wouldn't be covered under their healthcare. Then they'd be pissed at whoever made the decision.

If I have to put in money for something to get covered, I want it to be that!

Then don't be picky about what gets covered. Allow everything to be covered universally and it wouldn't be an issue for anyone

 

[happyninja42]

I didn't say it was an answer. I'm just brainstorming. I don't think the idea should be "how do we make abortions easy for everyone." As much as it should be, "How do we get people to never NEED/WANT abortions". Wouldn't that be the better answer?

Those two issues aren't mutually exclusive. Again, you keep pushing this all one thing or another angle, that's just NOT how it works.

The pro-choice side want to do ALL of that stuff, just like plenty of other places. The facts are, that giving women access to sex education, AND contraceptives, AND health care particularly related to reproduction/sex, ALL help reduce the need for abortions. The problem is the conservatives don't want ANY of it on the table, at all. They claim religious justification to shut down all of those types of programs, thus making it way harder for people to be able to responsibly manage their own sex lives, while also minimizing the risks of STDs and pregnancy.

 

[Seanchaidh]

Its not 'interesting' if its just wrong. The only way he could have forced a pick was if the democratic senate did the nuclear option, before that he only had 2 years where he could have gotten through justices 2008 to 2010 and he still would have needed every democrat, both independents and one republican to do it. After that the democrats only had a slim majority, to get past the 60 vote threshold for appointing a justice they would have needed even more republicans to agree and mitch the turtle would have done everything he could to just sit on any vacancies, which we saw him do.

Democrats could only have done X if they did Y. Alas, this means that X was impossible.

Great pattern we got going here.

 

[Gergar12]

The amount of stupid arguments from right wingers on Twitter is stunning.

It's not about religion despite my religion, and aligned religions supporting it.

Your killing babies, so if you trip and hit your balls are YOU killing babies.

And there's no fucking exceptions for rape and incest.

 

[Dreiko]

I can see the makings of a good reality show about bounty hunting in Texas.

"Rawdog: the bounty hunter", could make billions.

 

[McElroy]

In Finland it's local politics that decide whether contraceptives are free, which kinds and for whom. Also when a town decides to offer something for free for their youngsters the rest of the country starts crying that it's unfair (because they voted 60-year-olds into the town council). Saving money is not about abortions but free stuff gets otherwise irresponsible young women to come see the doctor. It seems free BC is a win-win, but for how long? Over here people seem to want it universally until 25 years of age, and that makes it practically until 28 if they get an IUD or implant that lasts for 3 years. Personally I'm not comfortable enabling a culture that keeps on putting off starting families, because that's already a problem in my opinion.

Texas wants worse outcomes for its people to appease an ideology, yee-haw. Higher brain functions not allowed.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Why fetal heartbeat? Talk about weird, arbitrary bullshit.

Any designation is going to be arbitrary for this. Age itself is incredibly arbitrary, as how worn out your body is is more relevant to your "age" than how many rotations around the sun you've experienced.

 

[Hades]

Obama just let the Republicans deny him an appointment to the Supreme Court.

What exactly could Obama have done to force Republicans to vote for his judge. McConnel and co blocking the judge for months out of spite is outside his power.

 

[Avnger]

What exactly could Obama have done to force Republicans to vote for his judge. McConnel and co blocking the judge for months out of spite is outside his power.

What any good "socialist" would have done, of course: follow Dear Leader Stalin's approach. Have those who directly (or indirectly) oppose him (or just looked at him funny that one time) purged and ship the rest off to gulags in Alaska. Oh, and don't forget the families too!

 

[Phoenixmgs]

I personally do it based on viability. I.e. if it cant survive in a NICU. The Roe v Wade I think was 24 weeks

It matches well with the stats. 90ish% of abortions happen before the 20th week and 95ish% after 20 weeks is due to medical reasons. Some of the other 5 is dealing with rape cases. So late term 'emergency birth contol' isn't really a thing

I also don't want to punish people who do the right thing, use birth control, and then it fails.

I'd also prefer that proper sex education in schools be a thing so young people don't HAVE to be put into such stupid predicaments due to their parents getting offended about sex. But it's Texas. They get offended at the drop of a hat over a purple flag

I think abortion is a tricky situation because I bet just about anyone would say killing fetus is bad (just generally) regardless if an hour old or 9 months old so I can see why some people are very much against abortion. I don't really have a firmly planted position, though in cases of rape and situations that endanger the woman's health makes perfect sense to me. It's the rest that's a pretty grey area for me with most likely different nuances in each case. I'm against regulating stuff based on personal beliefs so to me the abortion debate I can go either way on and I can see why others would feel strongly one way or the other.

 

[bluegate]

I bet just about anyone would say killing fetus is bad

Don't encorporate betting as part of your survival strategy in life.