That's not a plot hole!

[MrShowerHead]

the one is see alot is sliva's plan from skyfall, saying oh there no way anyone could plan right down to that last second. but he didnt have to, he was an agent so he know protocol and what would happen, and the whole train part "he didnt know the route he was going to take, because he didnt know where M is, he didnt know he would be chased that far, and he didnt have time to plant explosives, and how did he know the train was coming then", well chances are he was told where M was by his fucking army, and they could have shown him the shortest route to take once handing him the police uniform, he didnt need to set explosives, his men could have done that for him, and its londan theres a train every 5mins, if a train didnt come he was really really unlucky

I have to disagree with you there. Silva's plan was based mostly on assumptions. He assumed:

Spoiler

1.Bond kills Patrice
2.Patrice has the chip with him
3.Bond enters the casino, meets Severine and escapes the guards
4.Severine allows Bond to join her boat ride to the island
5.Bond would have a tracking device with him (Also on that note: The guards didn't find it. Are we to assume the guards were with him on that plan? If so, they were willing to die or to be captured by the MI6?)
6.The people at MI6 would connect his computer right into their system

And we have also ordered to assume everything happened at the exact moment Silva planned it would happen, since it's clear he planned his plan around the time M was at the courthouse. What if Bond would've arrived at the island just a day later?

Also, can I point out the fact that he escaped his cell by himself, which was guarded by at least 2 armed men? The guards can clearly see inside the cell and Silva himself wasn't really subtle about his plan before it started (Guard questioning his behavior) I think the door would also make a very distinct sound when it opens.

 

[elvor0]

To do a 180 on the OT: Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets is rife with them. They're massively bad plot holes, not one anyone can actually argue over like the LOTR ones. Slytherin symbol on the tap of the sink that leads to the chamber:

Okay so this is a castle, stated as being built in the 11th century, which was when the chamber was also constructed, so at some point someone would've had to have built that bathroom, presumably with in the last 100 years to account for the plumbing, hot water porcelain objects etc. And we're supposed to believe that no one investigated down there? And that none of the teachers with all their powerful magic noticed it? Nevermind the fact that whoever built the bathroom built it with all those mechanisms in it for when they opened it. Yeah fuck off.

The Basalisk moves through the pipes. Pipes are tiny, and the Basalisk is huge, where the fuck did it get in and out? Through the taps? And why the hell did it not eat any of the people it petrified? That's how Basalisks hunt, they paralyse people then eat them. I mean I know Rowling isn't exactly the greatest author but how did she overlook that?

Slytherin himself built that bathroom and the pipes leading to and from the chamber. Normal pipes are tiny yes but did you see the size of the ones in the chamber? Those would've been built all around Hogwarts by Slytherin. And and before you say how could you hide those size pipes in walls, there are spells that make things smaller on the outside than they really are i.e the tent they used in Goblet of Fire. How it got in and out though I have no idea but again the simple answer is magic. The reason the teachers couldn't find the chamber was it was enchanted to only open when spoken to in Paseltounge. The basalisk in reality would have eaten it's victims but the books were still pretty tame at that time so it might have been a bit horrifying for kids to read.

A better plot hole from CoS was why didn't the horcrux in Harry die when he was stabbed by the basalisk.

I suspect Slythern built the /original/ bathroom, but I highly doubt wizards invented modern plumbing and all the trappings of modern day bathrooms many hundreds of years before hand. That bathroom would have at some point needed to have been retrofitted. I know wizards're pretty powerful, but they do seem to be quite far behind when it comes to "technology", mainly because they don't need to in most cases, but it is most definitely presented as a "modern" (castle motif not withstanding) bathroom. And why would they make TARDIS pipes when they installed the plumbing?

In fact my original post is off, as it was invented in 993AD and they certainly didn't have plumbing and all that bollocks then, that's for sure. I'm perfectly happy for "magic" to be used in most cases, but when it's just being used as a solution to all problems and oversights it's a cop out.

You're right the Basilisk eating people might've been a bit gruesome for the early books, maybe they could've just had them disappear.
I suppose Harry didn't actually /die/ in CoS, just came very close to it, so I guess that's why the horcrux didn't die, heck we could even interpret it as that's what helped him stay alive just long enough for Faux to help.

 

[Treblaine]

People with Anterograde Amnesia know that they have amnesia. I don't how it works, but they know.

The movie kind of spells it out with how the protagonist recalls that people with brain-damage induced Anterograde Amnesia will still learn from experience even if they don't remember it. Like the metal shapes that give electric shocks, they should have it imprint on their "instinct" that some shapes are dangerous to touch even if they have no conscious reason or memory of way.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

'He couldn't have gotten back into Gotham'

Yes... yes he could have. He's a fucking ninja.

 

[Something Amyss]

Most of the time I just notice bad writing. Time travel, whenever it is used, always opens up massive plot holes if you thin about it too much, which is something I do.

Hm...perhaps my biggest plot hole, if it could be called that (and I don't think so) is the fact that the Jedi suck in Revenge of the Sith. These are supposed to be amazingly skilled warriors who can sense danger coming, and yet when it's time to step up, they get floored. Yes, I know that it's hard to win against an entire unit of tanks, or dozens of Clone Troopers, but come on. The steps leading up to the Jedi Temple, and the Temple itself, should have been littered with dead Clone Troopers. Obi and Yoda should have had to watch where they step based on how awesome we've been told they Jedi are. Okay, so the top ones were out fighting the war ( by the way, good job Ki-Adi, at least you managed to take two of them with you. Unlike everyone else). That doesn't mean that the Temple was left in the care of little kids. There were fully trained Jedi there, and it still turned into a massacre, but only on the Jedi side.
The battle of the Temple should have been like it was in Star Wars Battlefront 2: Desperate, with the Jedi cutting down swathes of Clones before finally being taken down.

Then again, I have tons of problems with Revenge of the Sith. Easily my least favorite Star Wars movie.

The Dark Side clouds everything.

Including common sense and their ability to defend themselves.

 

[Something Amyss]

'He couldn't have gotten back into Gotham'

Yes... yes he could have. He's a fucking ninja.

More importantly....He's Batman.


...and he's jealous of a hobo's coat, but still.

 

[putowtin]

Someone added on the Skyfall IMDB page that the... wait.. better spoiler this badboy!

Spoiler

that the tube train that crashes through the ceiling is empty dispite the tube station that Bond had just run through being full, I removed it cause the front of the train actually says "Not in service", but the guy keeps adding the same thing over and over!

 

[dogenzakaminion]

Chronicle ending

Spoiler

"How come Andrew is stabbed by a spear at the end when he can shield himself from incoming damage via telekinesis? It's a plothole."
No it's not. The characters create shockwaves by expanding their shields. Andrew sent everyone flying backwards by doing this. This left him temporarily without a shield which is how Matt stabbed him with a spear.

Very much agreed, also:

Spoiler

Matt notices that Andrew is distracted protecting himself from the police, he wouldn't see the spear from behind coming

 

[Lovely Mixture]

I have to disagree with you there. Silva's plan was based mostly on assumptions. He assumed:

Spoiler

1.Bond kills Patrice
2.Patrice has the chip with him
3.Bond enters the casino, meets Severine and escapes the guards
4.Severine allows Bond to join her boat ride to the island
5.Bond would have a tracking device with him (Also on that note: The guards didn't find it. Are we to assume the guards were with him on that plan? If so, they were willing to die or to be captured by the MI6?)
6.The people at MI6 would connect his computer right into their system

And we have also ordered to assume everything happened at the exact moment Silva planned it would happen, since it's clear he planned his plan around the time M was at the courthouse. What if Bond would've arrived at the island just a day later?

Also, can I point out the fact that he escaped his cell by himself, which was guarded by at least 2 armed men? The guards can clearly see inside the cell and Silva himself wasn't really subtle about his plan before it started (Guard questioning his behavior) I think the door would also make a very distinct sound when it opens.

The first four don't matter. We don't know if his plan WAS to get captured. He was trying to get M vulnerable by any methods, and the NATO list got him just that (note how he didn't release the all the names right away). Bond capturing him was just a bonus because he was ultra prepared, and since he worked with M16, he likely predicted tracking device ahead of time or knew they would be tracking Bond somehow.

Admittedly this isn't well elaborated upon, but I just kind of assumed Silva was like the Joker in that he has a simple plan that he changes according to the circumstances.

The sixth one is the only thing that relies on chance, since it's the stupidest thing M16 could have done. And the train thing was also stupid.

 

[Kellogs Fried Chickn]

A lot of folks are arguing for rational, practical solutions. Er, that's not Tolkien. See, it's not a plot hole when you are an angel and are sort of in tune with what God wants to happen and how God was manipulating events on his own. That is exactly what Gandalf is - all five wizards, Radagast, Saruman, Gandalf, and the two guys who sort of just exist in foot notes - are angelic beings sent by Eru and his Valar to guide the Free People of Middle Earth.

I think you just ruined the whole of Middle Earth forever.

 

[DelphiSantano]

OK asshole you can't figure this out, fine! THE EYE OF SAURON WOULD SEE THEM! You know the giant fucking eye that sees all of Mordor and is constantly looking for the ring...

Oh, you mean the exact same problem they faced in Return of the King, which they solved by sending an army on a suicide mission as a distraction?

Yeah... something flying through the air is kind of a lot more noticeable than two little hobbits sneaking around in the dust.

Also, I don't know if you noticed but it took an awful lot of time, work, and convincing to send that army.

Plus there's the problem (mentioned in the book I think, I'm pretty sure it wasn't in the film) that the eagles are averse to contact with the ring in a similar way to Gandalf's refusal/inability to handle it.

And before anyone mentions that the eagles carry Bilbo-plus-ring in The Hobbit, the ring would have been relatively dormant at that point and the eagles didn't carry him for long anyway. During ROTK, the ring would've been doing anything possible to overpower the minds of those carrying it (eagles included, had they been carrying Frodo) because of it's proximity to Mordor.

 

[Frybird]

It'd be quicker to just link to another thread about plot holes, no one seems to know what they are.

The only one I've ever really noticed was in Looper, which renders the entire film pointless.

Spoiler

The Rainmaker is a naughty boy because Bruce Willis shoots him through the cheek and kills his mother in front of him. This never happens in the first timeline, so Bruce Willis would have no reason to go back.

However...

Spoiler

Given that the Kid had a whole bunch of issues with his mother, with him not believing her to be his real mom and her being afraid of him, that might've also led to (different) events that turn him into the Rainmaker. Even moreso given that Joe wasn't around to defuse the situation.

 

[Legion]

I always find people's complaints of time travel "plot holes" to be amusing, as such a thing isn't possible by our understanding of time. Yet people treat it as though it is, and so it should follow our logic. Yet nobody complains about impossible things in sci-fi films such as instant teleportation and so on.

 

[bartholen_v1legacy]

snip

and thus began the rising of hoboman.

Oh, you mean

OT: eeeehh, I'm bad at noticing plotholes and remembering them, or I just have avoided watching movies with plot holes. The term is often misused and I think people point more to illogic or bad writing when talking about them. Evangelion had barrels of illogicalitie. To name a few: we are never shown how the parts of NERV HQ are located, so all the halls and spaces could exist entirely in their own pocket dimensions. No one ever congratulates Shinji, despite him saving the human race on multiple occasions. In one episode they direct all the electricity of Japan into a single use in a matter of mere hours, how the fuck do they do that? Throughout the series you can clearly see the size of the evas changing. And many more on channel 4.

Evangelion has two huge legitimate plotholes: in one episode they fight against a Leviathan-esque aquatic angel in the sea. The goal of the angels was to get into Terminal Dogma and get into contact with Lilith. The NERV HQ was located far inland and below the ground. How was a giant fish going to get there? The other one is in the episode where they fight the angel which splits into two separate copies of itself. It then lies dormant for six days. Instead of taking the logical route and bombing the shit out of the aliens that stand around doing nothing or sending THE THIRD EVA THEY HAD to beat it, they have the two main characters learn dancing coreography that somehow miraculously is in exact synch with the movements of the copies, despite them having absolutely no idea what they were going to do once they had awakened.

I've seen some people point to Inception in the fact that at the beginning of the movie when DiCaprio and the asian guy played by Ken Watanabe are in limbo, the asian guy looks like a 120-year old while DiCaprio remains young as a plot hole. It's not hard to think that because Watanabe's character fell into limbo as a result of dying in the dream, he no longer could tell he was in a dream when in Limbo, so he perceived his image aging. DiCaprio's character on the other hand went there voluntarily, so he knew he was still in a dream and so didn't age.

I would love to rant about the barrels of illogicalities in Prometheus, but that's a story for another thread.

 

[Legion]

because, you know, movies tend to bring their own kind of rules to their universes/dimensions with them.

we also dont complain how the idiots of fast and the furious manage to drive so well while ignoring the laws of physics our realm has.

or on how well gunman x can shoot a moving target while moving himself in the opposite direction with perfection. and also avoid being shot, burnt or crippled (like in die hard)

i hope you get the idea.

That's my point.

So why is it that when time travel is in the film, it's a "plot hole" when we can't see the logic to it?

I was saying that people often talk about "plot holes" regarding time travel, as they "don't make sense" while ignoring all sorts of other implausible things in films.

 

[Darkasassin96]

Cant think of any ones other than the major one at the beginning of TES oblivion. Why on earth is the entrance to the escape route in the prison? The prison is outside the city walls, presumably where the escape route should take you, and doesnt even lead you that far away from the city, just to a different spot on the island. That fact could be forgiven if it was hidden under the emperors bed or something but if the city was besieged then that escape route is not going to serve any purpose at all. If they surrounded the island then he would leave his palace, go outside the city walls to the prison and follow the secret tunnel to a spot on the other side of the island, what were the blades planning on doing when they got out, swim? Heres another scenario, the enemy has the walls of the city surrounded, he cant even get to the escape route now. Its just something that has always bothered me.

 

[Psykoma]

Yeah the "omg eagles can't fly into mordor" crowd are pretty... hilarious. Because that's exactly what the eagles did. They flew into mordor, completely unimpeded after having done the majority of the flight before Sauron's defeat (as they arrive minutes after the ring is thrown in). In all that time, they aren't spotted by any of the "spies" or even the Eye, nor do any rogue archers spot them or shoot them. Nor do any cave trolls or ballistas throw rocks or bolts at them. They fly right up to mordor with no problem, and then fly *into* mordor because the eye is busy watching the war.

Are you sourcing from the books? I don't remember them too specifically, but from the movie:

- The battle that the Eagles were involved in took place entirely -outside- the gates to Mordor.
- Gandalf was riding the group of Eagles which went to the mountain. Also note that it was clearly established Gandalf was -on the ground, outside the gate- when the mountain blew (thus when the ring and sauron were destroyed), also after the ground in Mordor decided to collapse (putting end to any 'rogue' archers). AKA: There is no indication at all that either Gandalf or the Eagles actually crossed the border into Mordor before Sauron was destroyed,
- The eagles arrived at the mountain and frodo within a few minutes of 'movie' time, not 'real' time. Don't forget that the multiple day long battle at the fields of pellenor took place within the span of maybe 45 minutes to an hour of 'movie' time. So yeah, 'movie time' - not too reliable.
- Also, Frodo (and the screen) had blacked out before the eagles arrived, so realistically it's entirely plausible that the eagles had taken half an hour, an hour, or even more from the time the mountain blew.

Unless you're sourcing from the books, and they give more details than I remember, your conclusions would be pretty specious.

 

[The Selkie]

The eagles of Manwë were too obvious, and something Sauron would have been wary of and have defenses against. The reason Frodo and Sam succeeded was because the plan was so crazy Sauron never anticipated it.

One could argue against this. The view I take on the matter is the whole "eagles answer to no one" etc. I think it's written somewhere that the plan worked, not because Sauron didn't expect hobbits to sneak in and destroy the ring, but largely because he didn't expect anyone to try to destroy it (hence the complete lack of defences around Mount Doom). Being so thoroughly corrupted, he assumed anyone who got the ring would use it for personal gain/to fight against him. He couldn't imagine anyone throwing away such power which was ultimately his downfall.