Very much agreed, also:Rylingo said:
Matt notices that Andrew is distracted protecting himself from the police, he wouldn't see the spear from behind coming
That's not a plot hole!
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The first four don't matter. We don't know if his plan WAS to get captured. He was trying to get M vulnerable by any methods, and the NATO list got him just that (note how he didn't release the all the names right away). Bond capturing him was just a bonus because he was ultra prepared, and since he worked with M16, he likely predicted tracking device ahead of time or knew they would be tracking Bond somehow.MrShowerHead said:
Admittedly this isn't well elaborated upon, but I just kind of assumed Silva was like the Joker in that he has a simple plan that he changes according to the circumstances.
The sixth one is the only thing that relies on chance, since it's the stupidest thing M16 could have done. And the train thing was also stupid.
Plus there's the problem (mentioned in the book I think, I'm pretty sure it wasn't in the film) that the eagles are averse to contact with the ring in a similar way to Gandalf's refusal/inability to handle it.Dimitriov said:
And before anyone mentions that the eagles carry Bilbo-plus-ring in The Hobbit, the ring would have been relatively dormant at that point and the eagles didn't carry him for long anyway. During ROTK, the ring would've been doing anything possible to overpower the minds of those carrying it (eagles included, had they been carrying Frodo) because of it's proximity to Mordor.
However...Woodsey said:
Given that the Kid had a whole bunch of issues with his mother, with him not believing her to be his real mom and her being afraid of him, that might've also led to (different) events that turn him into the Rainmaker. Even moreso given that Joe wasn't around to defuse the situation.
I always find people's complaints of time travel "plot holes" to be amusing, as such a thing isn't possible by our understanding of time. Yet people treat it as though it is, and so it should follow our logic. Yet nobody complains about impossible things in sci-fi films such as instant teleportation and so on.
rhizhim said:Oh, you meanZachary Amaranth said:
OT: eeeehh, I'm bad at noticing plotholes and remembering them, or I just have avoided watching movies with plot holes. The term is often misused and I think people point more to illogic or bad writing when talking about them. Evangelion had barrels of illogicalitie. To name a few: we are never shown how the parts of NERV HQ are located, so all the halls and spaces could exist entirely in their own pocket dimensions. No one ever congratulates Shinji, despite him saving the human race on multiple occasions. In one episode they direct all the electricity of Japan into a single use in a matter of mere hours, how the fuck do they do that? Throughout the series you can clearly see the size of the evas changing. And many more on channel 4.
Evangelion has two huge legitimate plotholes: in one episode they fight against a Leviathan-esque aquatic angel in the sea. The goal of the angels was to get into Terminal Dogma and get into contact with Lilith. The NERV HQ was located far inland and below the ground. How was a giant fish going to get there? The other one is in the episode where they fight the angel which splits into two separate copies of itself. It then lies dormant for six days. Instead of taking the logical route and bombing the shit out of the aliens that stand around doing nothing or sending THE THIRD EVA THEY HAD to beat it, they have the two main characters learn dancing coreography that somehow miraculously is in exact synch with the movements of the copies, despite them having absolutely no idea what they were going to do once they had awakened.
I've seen some people point to Inception in the fact that at the beginning of the movie when DiCaprio and the asian guy played by Ken Watanabe are in limbo, the asian guy looks like a 120-year old while DiCaprio remains young as a plot hole. It's not hard to think that because Watanabe's character fell into limbo as a result of dying in the dream, he no longer could tell he was in a dream when in Limbo, so he perceived his image aging. DiCaprio's character on the other hand went there voluntarily, so he knew he was still in a dream and so didn't age.
I would love to rant about the barrels of illogicalities in Prometheus, but that's a story for another thread.
That's my point.rhizhim said:
So why is it that when time travel is in the film, it's a "plot hole" when we can't see the logic to it?
I was saying that people often talk about "plot holes" regarding time travel, as they "don't make sense" while ignoring all sorts of other implausible things in films.
Cant think of any ones other than the major one at the beginning of TES oblivion. Why on earth is the entrance to the escape route in the prison? The prison is outside the city walls, presumably where the escape route should take you, and doesnt even lead you that far away from the city, just to a different spot on the island. That fact could be forgiven if it was hidden under the emperors bed or something but if the city was besieged then that escape route is not going to serve any purpose at all. If they surrounded the island then he would leave his palace, go outside the city walls to the prison and follow the secret tunnel to a spot on the other side of the island, what were the blades planning on doing when they got out, swim? Heres another scenario, the enemy has the walls of the city surrounded, he cant even get to the escape route now. Its just something that has always bothered me.
Are you sourcing from the books? I don't remember them too specifically, but from the movie:AuronFtw said:
- The battle that the Eagles were involved in took place entirely -outside- the gates to Mordor.
- Gandalf was riding the group of Eagles which went to the mountain. Also note that it was clearly established Gandalf was -on the ground, outside the gate- when the mountain blew (thus when the ring and sauron were destroyed), also after the ground in Mordor decided to collapse (putting end to any 'rogue' archers). AKA: There is no indication at all that either Gandalf or the Eagles actually crossed the border into Mordor before Sauron was destroyed,
- The eagles arrived at the mountain and frodo within a few minutes of 'movie' time, not 'real' time. Don't forget that the multiple day long battle at the fields of pellenor took place within the span of maybe 45 minutes to an hour of 'movie' time. So yeah, 'movie time' - not too reliable.
- Also, Frodo (and the screen) had blacked out before the eagles arrived, so realistically it's entirely plausible that the eagles had taken half an hour, an hour, or even more from the time the mountain blew.
Unless you're sourcing from the books, and they give more details than I remember, your conclusions would be pretty specious.
One could argue against this. The view I take on the matter is the whole "eagles answer to no one" etc. I think it's written somewhere that the plan worked, not because Sauron didn't expect hobbits to sneak in and destroy the ring, but largely because he didn't expect anyone to try to destroy it (hence the complete lack of defences around Mount Doom). Being so thoroughly corrupted, he assumed anyone who got the ring would use it for personal gain/to fight against him. He couldn't imagine anyone throwing away such power which was ultimately his downfall.Lieju said:
Firstly, they never got the chance to sense the attacks (I think it's done by sensing your attackers malice or something) because they order was given then carried out immediately. That's why Palpatine spread out his forces, so the Jedi were isolated, surrounded by clone (who were trained their whole lives to follow orders).Sniper Team 4 said:
Secondly, the attack on the temple went so well because Anakin led it. He did a lot of the heavy lifting, killing a silly amount of jedi masters and the like. I imagine the clones cleaned up a lot of the bodies since they were trying to lure the remaining jedi back there as a trap.
Time travel "plot holes" often exist because they counteract established lore. If they exist because "that's impossible," it's not really a plot hole. It's called fact checking.Legion said:
You can have plot holes involving ghosts, time travel, the Loch Ness monster and cultured Americans. They don't need to really be real for the plots to have issues. They just need to jive with the mechanics as stated.
I hate it when people try to point out plot holes in Batman movies. You know how he was able to do all that stuff that seemed impossible? HE'S FREAKIN' BATMAN.
Well he....but....you....and then........NoeL said:
Damn. Well played, sir. You win this round.
The eagles answer to Manwë, don't they? And oppose Morgoth and later Sauron, that was their job. They also helped Gandalf on several occasions, and I think they also participated in the battle at the Black gate.The Selkie said:
I also recall the point of their attack on the Black gate was to convince Sauron those forces had the ring, because they were challenging the vast forces of Mordor, and only someone who had the ring would dare to do something like that.
True, Sauron didn't expect anyone would try to destroy the ring, but Mordor still had very strong defenses and just getting there was difficult. He would have especially been vary of the eagles, and had defenses against them.
While I doubt he even knew what a hobbit was.
Well,like you've said,only something which completely shatters any belief is a slap out of fiction into reality which anyone can feel.But I don't even bother predicting the plot,for example I didn't see the betrayal in Dishonored which is considered to be seen from a mile away.I'm not very well armed with common knowledge about tropes and classic plot twist, so I can't really foresee a betrayal even if it's in every.single.video.game.ever.made.V da Mighty Taco said:
Recently mostly I complain about how different continuations of stories have taken a turn away from their possible massive potential for development,either for the character or the setting by tackling a difficult cultural subject or a philosophical/fictional concept.
Tolkien pretty much hit you over the head with this stuff in the book. And then Tolkien's other books make the roles pretty explicit, especially when Eru shows up as a character and directly talks to his angels. It wasn't terribly explicit in the movie, but I am surprised viewers missed the messianic undertones of Gandalf's death and resurrection and the least is first theme of having a hobbit bear the ring. Or Gandalf knowingly talking about heaven as the "far green country."Kellogs Fried Chickn said: