That's not a plot hole!

[Sutter Cane]

this more of a general complaint when it comes to the plans of movie villains, but I really hate how when a villain has a plan tat he pulls off sucessfully, the audience assumes that the villain factored every specific event in the film into account, and that the plan would not have worked any other way. For example, going back to what someone earlier in this thread said about skyfall.

I have to disagree with you there. Silva's plan was based mostly on assumptions. He assumed:

1.Bond kills Patrice
2.Patrice has the chip with him
3.Bond enters the casino, meets Severine and escapes the guards
4.Severine allows Bond to join her boat ride to the island
5.Bond would have a tracking device with him (Also on that note: The guards didn't find it. Are we to assume the guards were with him on that plan? If so, they were willing to die or to be captured by the MI6?)
6.The people at MI6 would connect his computer right into their system

And we have also ordered to assume everything happened at the exact moment Silva planned it would happen, since it's clear he planned his plan around the time M was at the courthouse. What if Bond would've arrived at the island just a day later?

Also, can I point out the fact that he escaped his cell by himself, which was guarded by at least 2 armed men? The guards can clearly see inside the cell and Silva himself wasn't really subtle about his plan before it started (Guard questioning his behavior) I think the door would also make a very distinct sound when it opens.

Except, he didn't need to assume any of those things at all (well except for 6)

IS there any reason that his plan couldn't have been

1. M will send Bond after me, because Bond is his current favorite
2. Bond's investigation will eventually lead him to me
3. I attempt to turn Bond over to my side and have him assist me in killing M

with the escape from MI6 being a back up plan that he could use in case he ever did end up getting captured? I don't really see any reason why not.

I see the same thing happen with the Star Wars prequels as well when people assume that Anakin falling in love with Padme was part of Palpatine's long-term plan. There's absolutely nothing in the films to suggest this, but people assume that it was part of his plan anyway. Oh sure, he ended up exploiting it once he found out about the relationship, but there's really nothing to suggest that any part of his original plan hinged on anakin and padme falling in love

 

[Jfswift]

OK asshole you can't figure this out, fine! THE EYE OF SAURON WOULD SEE THEM! You know the giant fucking eye that sees all of Mordor and is constantly looking for the ring...

Oh, you mean the exact same problem they faced in Return of the King, which they solved by sending an army on a suicide mission as a distraction?

dont forget that those eagles pretty much owned the wyrms/dragons...

That's a good point but I thought the ring could influence minds. That was the whole reason why only Bilbo could carry it I thought. Wouldn't that be dangerous relying on powerful eagles in such close proximity to it?

 

[Innegativeion]

*snip*

Since we're on the topic of Lord of the Rings (kinda), here's one

why couldn't the eagles of Manwe from Sonic 06 just bring Sonic to the egg carrier? Since each time you meet one (often in the middle of a level) they'll bring you closer to to it.

Well... then again, maybe Sonic '06 was just a dumb game.

*snip*

Yar. Internal consistency, in a word. Or two. Words to live by.

 

[Sexy Devil]

You know I did some math at the end of The Dark Knight Rises, and

Spoiler

There is NO WAY Batman would be able to fly the bomb out of there fast enough with the timer being on what it was. Bane said the bomb had a six mile blast radius, and even though I forgot how to do the math, the Bat would have had to fly around 2,000 MPH to clear that. Not to mention some of the fallout would blow back.

I got 321.8688m/s to clear the 12 miles in 60 seconds, and that's assuming he was exactly 6 miles from the coast. Seems pretty doable if the only thing we assume about the bat is that it's going under the speed of sound. And it's fucking Batman so I'm willing to take that leap!

I've not seen the movie, but is this math just about getting from point A to point B or does it take escape from B into account?

No, I was just assuming Batman himself utilised those magic teleportation abilities that he had in The Dark Knight! Bat magic!

 

[EternalNoob412]

In Return of the Jedi a lot of people like to complain about the Empire fleet breaking off after the Death Star is destroyed despite greatly outnumbering the Rebels. The EU explanation is Battle Meditation(which is fine but not necessary). They fled because seeing the greatest weapon ever built destroyed with all your senior leaders aboard can be quite damaging to your morale. That's what I assumed anyways.

 

[Rastrelly]

We've all heard them, usually from the insufferably smug, and we all hate them. Plot holes that are not plot holes. What are your least favorite? Here's mine,

Lord Of The Rings: There's two that annoy me to no end and make me want to slap the person that belches them out, the first being the most obvious, "Why didn't they just fly the ring to Mordor?" OK asshole you can't figure this out, fine! THE EYE OF SAURON WOULD SEE THEM! You know the giant fucking eye that sees all of Mordor and is constantly looking for the ring. He would see those eagles from miles and miles away. That is if his spies, which by the way can and do consist of men, birds, and trees, don't see them first. In which case he would send all nine of the Nazgul after them on their dragons (I know they're not called dragons, but wurms or something like that, but that's neither here nor there). All he has to do is kill the eagle with Frodo on it, or knock Frodo or the ring off the eagle and BOOM the ring is his, and all is lost, fuck you game over.

#2. In the mines of Moria: This one is less of a plot hole and is usually more of a dig at Gandalf. It usually goes something like "Gandalf sucks as a wizard, he was traveling through a mine he knew had orcs in it and he stopped to read? What a dumbass, hur, hur, hur." To which I respond, you did hear him when he said that it was going to take FOUR DAYS to get through the mines, didn't you? Because he says it's going to take four fucking days to get through the Mines of Moria... Four days, at least. When he picked up the book they were nearing the exit. It was maybe quarter to half a days journey to the exit, so that means that they had been traversing through a grey, samey, god forsaken mine for several days up to that point. Let's see you do that. Let's see you go through an underground Kansas for four days, and see if you don't want to take a break here and there due to mental exhaustion, fuck physical exhaustion which I'm sure they had, let's just go with the mental exhaustion. Hell by day two I can guarantee you that you'd be losing your damn mind and gnawing at the rocks in a desperate attempt to escape, so I think that he can be excused for taking a breather to read a book that may have some pertinent information. To be honest it could be fucking twilight and I wouldn't blame the guy for stopping.


Memento: This one I find somewhat excusable seeing as most people don't know shit about neurology, but it still not a plot hole. "If Leonard has Anterograde Amnesia how does he remember that he has Anterograde Amnesia?" People with Anterograde Amnesia know that they have amnesia. I don't how it works, but they know. To be fair this one is excusable so I won't give anyone shit for this, but the other two? Yeah fuck those people.

Sorry if I ninja'd the ones you wanted to rant about, but feel free to add what you wish if you feel like I missed something, But now I want to hear your least favorite plot holes that aren't plot holes.

EDIT: The reason people with Anterograde Amnesia know that they have Amnesia is due to reasoning or repetition making the knowledge instinctual. Thank you to everyone who gave me information on the Anterograde Amnesia bit.

As for Eagles: the Eye wouldn't be a problem. The problem is - Eagles in Tolkien's world are in fact an instrument of divine will (the will of Valar if you will), they exist no to be an air taxi - they act only when nothing else can't help, when internal mechanics of the Universe (Arda, if you will) cannot compete with external intervention (and don't forget - Sauron is mayar, one of the mightiest, and, while Gandalf is one of them either, he is strictly forbidden to confront Sauron directly).
As for Moria: didn't know there are people who bring that up XD That's a good way to read a book - without even trying to understand that Moria is f-ing giant!

 

[Zacharious-khan]

The eagle thing is actually explained in the books, The eagles have to far to fly from the edge of Mordor and Mt. Doom and they would become tired and have to rest a few times before getting there at which point they would be killed most likely. it does annoy me when people bring that up.

 

[King Aragorn]

If my understanding is correct, the Eagles are not in Gandalf's back pocket. They come out in the most dire of times, really.
One that pisses me the hell off is: ''Aragorn should have kept the ghost army!''
It's just not god damn Aragorn! he sticks to his word/promises.

 

[PureChaos]

One of my mates thinks that in the Disney film Bolt, before Bolt goes missing someone says that Bolt is irreplaceable and think the fact they replace him once he goes missing is a huge plot hole that ruins the film. I love the film and, even though I've tried top tell him many times that no-one says he is irreplaceable, he still believes someone does and moans about it every time someone brings up the film.

 

[Madman123456]

Ghost army in Lotr: They where *all* traitors/cowards? Odd.
Or is this place just where all the traitors and cowards go and it just became a little full over time?

The famous "Use eagles to carry ring" is not really a plothole, still it could have been adressed. Even if Sauron can see the ring, having it move fast on an eagle might yield a higher chance to drop it into the volcano than move it very slowly on foot where sauron would just have to flood the general area with a million orcs. Gandalf could be like "I can't summon the eagles whenever i choose, they're a bit like the Ents in that you can explain that the world is going to end if they don't help and then they'll talk about it for a few years.". oh well.

 

[Kmadden2004]

In Return of the Jedi a lot of people like to complain about the Empire fleet breaking off after the Death Star is destroyed despite greatly outnumbering the Rebels. The EU explanation is Battle Meditation(which is fine but not necessary). They fled because seeing the greatest weapon ever built destroyed with all your senior leaders aboard can be quite damaging to your morale. That's what I assumed anyways.

Personally, I prefer the Robot Chicken explanation; http://youtu.be/mAOX_CHU0JY

OT: For all the "How did Bruce get back to Gotham?" talk, I've always found the point when Gordon sends what must be 80% of his police force into the sewers to be the most troublesome plot hole in Rises.

 

[Kmadden2004]

Ghost army in Lotr: They where *all* traitors/cowards? Odd.
Or is this place just where all the traitors and cowards go and it just became a little full over time?

The famous "Use eagles to carry ring" is not really a plothole, still it could have been adressed. Even if Sauron can see the ring, having it move fast on an eagle might yield a higher chance to drop it into the volcano than move it very slowly on foot where sauron would just have to flood the general area with a million orcs. Gandalf could be like "I can't summon the eagles whenever i choose, they're a bit like the Ents in that you can explain that the world is going to end if they don't help and then they'll talk about it for a few years.". oh well.

I don't think it's really the case that they were all cowards and traitors, more that their leaders where, but they were all put under the curse because... well, it ain't a proper curse without being some kind of a dick move, is it?

 

[gazumped]

OT: Avengers.


more specifically, Hulk in The Avengers.

complain about him being a different actor? plastic surgery.

best I can come up with for him, but I've heard that complaint the most.

That's a pretty silly complaint, if a person can't suspend their disbelief enough to be able to accept that an actor isn't actually the character they must find it pretty darn hard to enjoy live-action films and T.V. shows.

I think if I heard someone complain that the Hulk was a different actor I'd say "And Iron Man is Sherlock Holmes! How does that make any sense when Sherlock is from Victorian times?! PLOTHOOOOOOLE"

 

[zerabp]

The thing that actually annoys me the most about LOTR isn't even the eagles.

I'm not sure whether it's the same in the books (clarification?) but in the film, you have the entrance to Mount Doom, the ONE thing that can kill Sauron, and he doesn't have any guards there permanently?

They Explain this both in the movie and in the Book he doesn't do it because it would never enter his thoughts that they would destroy it. Sauron Believes they will try to use the ring against him, not try to destroy it.

 

[Timberwolf0924]

I'll tell ya one thing I don't like. Why didn't Aragon keep the undead army, for just one more fight. He knew what he had to do, and they could've wiped the earth clear of the horde. But Aragon didn't have that forsight. I would've said, "two more battles you damn ghosts" and had them follow us until we were on Saurons door steps...

 

[King Aragorn]

Because their oath is fulfilled. It would go against Aragorn's very character to do so, and I always was under the impression that after one battle, the curse itself ends anyway.
Also, how would people feel knowing their King is a man you cannot trust and one that doesn't keep his word?

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

The only plot holes I ever see are usually unimportant ones that can be attributed to artistic license, such as the sound of TIE-fighters in space.

That's actually not a plot hole, as science flubs don't directly impact plot.

 

[thedoclc]

I was bothered by a possible plot hole in the second Nolan Batman movie.

When the Joker attacks the society party, Bruce slips out, dons the suit, "Let her go," fall, bam onto a taxi. Now, them surviving is plain old plot armor. However, that means the Joker and his various thugs are up there with a whole lot of Bruce Wayne's friends. Do we hear of him returning and doing something about it? No. Maybe some of the goons regaining consciousness and getting back up? No. Do we hear of some of the people at the party having the presence of mind to grab one of the guns dropped by a goon and hold the Joker or his minions? Or just shoot him in the face? No. Do we hear about the Joker beating feet because his objective has slipped away? Or the police arriving to find the Joker making a withdrawal? Or, indeed, any resolution at all to the scene above?

Does someone even hand-wave it with one line such as, "When I went back, Alfred, that freak was already gone. His guys aren't even talking."

Nope. Fall onto taxi, miraculously survive with minor or no injuries, plot-important characters are OK. Screw everyone else, cut to next plot point.

Is this in any way not a plot hole, based on what is actually -seen?-

 

[Asita]

That makes zero sense whatsoever, how would blindfolding yourself help in any way? Like God's a lawyer and hes just going to go, oh darn you found a loophole I guess you win now? It's about intent. Indy wasn't trying to game the system, he just made a misstep. The trials were controlled by god, who is clearly evidenced to exist in Indiana Jones. There may be mechanical parts to it, but God is clearly in charge of the whole set up.

Also there was nothing mechanical or engineering based about the leap from the lions head, it is clearly shown from multiple angles to not exist, you can even see his feet hanging over the edge. The bridge appears from nowhere because of his faith, because of his intent. Because God judged him through the trials.

Uh, no. The bridge was an optical illusion aided by forced perspective. It was always there, just camouflaged. That's why after stepping on it the camera pans to the side to show the path as it ceases to be aligned with the pattern on the wall. Before that point we only ever see the gap either from Indy's perspective or facing back the way he came. Front or back, we view it in a straight line designed to force the illusion. The moment this line is broken, so too is the illusion.

The entire point of the camera angle was to illustrate the nature of the trick, which Indy then further revealed when he tossed sand back onto the path to disrupt that optical illusion. There's no point in either reveal if the path magically appeared. It's the same principle as revealing the blades in the first trial. These were not truly divine tests, they were religiously inspired ones constructed by the men who wished to protect the grail. Hence why each had a certain trick that was reproducible regardless of intent, they're little more than fancy booby traps.

Now the front view admittedly has some logical problems, but then so does keeping a perfectly intact rubbing after swimming in oil, a commercial zeppelin carrying a plane equipped with a gunner's seat, riding an inflatable raft to survive a fall from a plane and then a cliff (Temple of Doom), bullet holes disappearing in a windshield[footnote]Admittedly very easy to miss. The scene occurs during the boat chase, wherein the glass on the boat promptly gets shot, denoted by the white marks on it, which disappear in later shots. One might also notice that the wheel of the boat changes sides in one shot (it us usually on the starboard of the boat)[/footnote], and the way the grail changes position between shots in the finale[footnote]After being healed, Jones Sr. rises holding the grail...and then in the shots immediately following this, the grail is picked up from the floor by Elsa[/footnote]. This isn't exactly a film (or series of films) in which you can point to logical problems as evidence of intent, especially when the surrounding context points to more mundane explanations. At the end of the day, the only things in the Temple of the Sun (aka. the Grail Temple) which can honestly be attributed as supernatural in the film relate directly to the Grail itself: the healing power of the Grail, the effects of the false grail(s), and the results of taking the Grail across the Great Seal.

 

[Extra-Ordinary]

I am REALLY bad at noticing all but the really obvious plot holes, I think i'm just naturally hardwired to overlook them because there's no fun to be had if you're constantly picking holes in everything.

For example, people say Code Geass was ridden with plot holes later on but I can see literally none of them.

Same here. Not the Code Geass thing but the overlooking-plot-holes thing.
Like you said, things just get less fun the more you scrutinize it.
Although, there is one...

You know I did some math at the end of The Dark Knight Rises, and

Spoiler

There is NO WAY Batman would be able to fly the bomb out of there fast enough with the timer being on what it was. Bane said the bomb had a six mile blast radius, and even though I forgot how to do the math, the Bat would have had to fly around 2,000 MPH to clear that. Not to mention some of the fallout would blow back.

I got 321.8688m/s to clear the 12 miles in 60 seconds, and that's assuming he was exactly 6 miles from the coast. Seems pretty doable if the only thing we assume about the bat is that it's going under the speed of sound. And it's fucking Batman so I'm willing to take that leap!

I've not seen the movie, but is this math just about getting from point A to point B or does it take escape from B into account?

No, I was just assuming Batman himself utilised those magic teleportation abilities that he had in The Dark Knight! Bat magic!

Ah, the ol' Bat-Teleportation, THAT explains it.
Because I was wondering when he jumps out of the Bat and it shows him in there up until about 5 seconds before the bomb went off.
I was going to chalk it up to "he's Batman" but now I have a logical explanation.