The 2019 GOTY Awards

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

It's silly to say that a game with some shared mechanics is the same as games which had the same mechanics 20 years ago because that's just highly myopic of every other aspect that changed. It'd be like saying the last of us is just doing the same thing tomb rider did in 1995 because it has third person gunplay so it doesn't deserve to win either.

You can say a ton of things about why smash shouldn't be the game to win but it being true to its history and keeping some things the same for the sake of familiarity and tradition definitely isn't one of them.

Smash is akin to yearly releases like COD, Madden, FIFA, etc. Just because Smash only releases once a generation doesn't mean it should get a pass for not changing enough. Assassin's Creed has changed way more than Smash and it releases yearly and is a far newer IP to boot. When I played MLB The Show yearly, the gameplay was tweaked more than it is in Smash's iterations. There's no way Melee is as/more different from Ultimate than 1995 Tomb Raider is from TLOU (they ain't even the same genre).

But Mario wasn't even able to use a cape in Smash 64... so i guess smash has changed in the 20 years it's been around then?

*DUN, DUN, DUNNNNNN!"
*Gasp*

The Horror!!!!

Oh sorry, 18 years...

 

[Yoshi178]

There's no way Melee is as/more different from Ultimate than 1995 Tomb Raider is from TLOU (they ain't even the same genre).

pretty sure Smash Bros, FIFA, Call of Duty and Assassin's creed aren't even in the same genre together either.

TLOU is still just ANOTHER third person cover shooter game.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

There's no way Melee is as/more different from Ultimate than 1995 Tomb Raider is from TLOU (they ain't even the same genre).

pretty sure Smash Bros, FIFA, Call of Duty and Assassin's creed aren't even in the same genre together either.

TLOU is still just ANOTHER third person cover shooter game.

You're not following the discussion properly. Nobody said Smash and the other games are the same genre as each other.

I wouldn't consider TLOU a shooter. And, it's more different from Uncharted than Melee is from Ultimate.

 

[Yoshi178]

I wouldn't consider TLOU a shooter. And, it's more different from Uncharted than Melee is from Ultimate.

so prove it then.

 

[Avnger]

I wouldn't consider TLOU a shooter. And, it's more different from Uncharted than Melee is from Ultimate.

so prove it then.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

I wouldn't consider TLOU a shooter. And, it's more different from Uncharted than Melee is from Ultimate.

so prove it then.

1) YouTube
2) ???
3) Profit

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

It's silly to say that a game with some shared mechanics is the same as games which had the same mechanics 20 years ago because that's just highly myopic of every other aspect that changed. It'd be like saying the last of us is just doing the same thing tomb rider did in 1995 because it has third person gunplay so it doesn't deserve to win either.

You can say a ton of things about why smash shouldn't be the game to win but it being true to its history and keeping some things the same for the sake of familiarity and tradition definitely isn't one of them.

Smash is akin to yearly releases like COD, Madden, FIFA, etc. Just because Smash only releases once a generation doesn't mean it should get a pass for not changing enough. Assassin's Creed has changed way more than Smash and it releases yearly and is a far newer IP to boot. When I played MLB The Show yearly, the gameplay was tweaked more than it is in Smash's iterations. There's no way Melee is as/more different from Ultimate than 1995 Tomb Raider is from TLOU (they ain't even the same genre).

But Mario wasn't even able to use a cape in Smash 64... so i guess smash has changed in the 20 years it's been around then?

*DUN, DUN, DUNNNNNN!"
*Gasp*

The Horror!!!!

Oh sorry, 18 years...

The difference is that smash gets to add a whole metric ton of new characters due to it being generational. If Fifa and Maddeen did a generation-wide all star players release every 5-9 years it'd also be a lot more interesting I imagine.


Also, smash has been adding a ton more non-nintendo characters as of late, it's kind of like a celebration of popular gaming franchises by this point (kinda like blazblue tag being a celebration of anime games with them adding Arcana Heart and Akatsuki Blitzkamf and even Senran Kagura guests), not nearly as cynical as the EA sports games so the comparison is completely unfair.

 

[Yoshi178]

The difference is that smash gets to add a whole metric ton of new characters due to it being generational. If Fifa and Maddeen did a generation-wide all star players release every 5-9 years it'd also be a lot more interesting I imagine.


Also, smash has been adding a ton more non-nintendo characters as of late, it's kind of like a celebration of popular gaming franchises by this point (kinda like blazblue tag being a celebration of anime games with them adding Arcana Heart and Akatsuki Blitzkamf and even Senran Kagura guests), not nearly as cynical as the EA sports games so the comparison is completely unfair.

Smash bros fighters all have different movesets, which means different hitboxe's, different start up and different end lag times, different abilities and combo's from the different moves they do, and even the echo fighters with the same movesets as the original fighter have different knockback effect and damage percentage than what the original fighters would do.


and when you ignore all of the fighter difference's there are also both new old stage's with each smash bros generation with different stage hazards.

there are different items to use

there are different game modes

there is always a shit tonne of new music added to the games.





if people want to say all smash bros games are exactly the same just with different characters then they are just as wrong as if someone were to say all 3rd person cover shooters like TLOU and Uncharted were same. Smash Bros has a shit load of change's to it each generation but some people around here just want to ignore all the difference's like Mario's Cape being added and just make huge ignorant blanket statements about the franchise instead.

 

[Avnger]

The difference is that smash gets to add a whole metric ton of new characters due to it being generational. If Fifa and Maddeen did a generation-wide all star players release every 5-9 years it'd also be a lot more interesting I imagine.


Also, smash has been adding a ton more non-nintendo characters as of late, it's kind of like a celebration of popular gaming franchises by this point (kinda like blazblue tag being a celebration of anime games with them adding Arcana Heart and Akatsuki Blitzkamf and even Senran Kagura guests), not nearly as cynical as the EA sports games so the comparison is completely unfair.

Smash bros fighters all have different movesets, which means different hitboxe's, different start up and different end lag times, different abilities and combo's from the different moves they do, and even the echo fighters with the same movesets as the original fighter have different knockback effect and damage percentage than what the original fighters would do.


and when you ignore all of the fighter difference's there are also both new old stage's with each smash bros generation with different stage hazards.

there are different items to use

there are different game modes

there is always a shit tonne of new music added to the games.





if people want to say all smash bros games are exactly the same just with different characters then are just as wrong as if someone were to say all 3rd person cover shooters like TLOU and Uncharted were same. Smash Bros has a shit load of change's to it each generation but some people around here just want to ignore all the difference's like Mario's Cape being added and just make huge ignorant blanket statements about the franchise instead.

You still haven't taken even 30 seconds to look up youtube videos of TLOU and Uncharted, have you? You've clearly never played either one, but you could at least attempt to not be entirely ignorant about the arguments you're making.

 

[Yoshi178]

you could at least attempt to not be entirely ignorant about the arguments you're making.

as someone once said to me:

 

[CaitSeith]

I wouldn't consider TLOU a shooter. And, it's more different from Uncharted than Melee is from Ultimate.

so prove it then.

1) YouTube
2) ???
3) Profit

Plot twist!

 

[Avnger]

you could at least attempt to not be entirely ignorant about the arguments you're making.

as someone once said to me:

 

[Yoshi178]

Plot twist!

not really.

he could watch youtube videos himself if he wants to see differences between the current smash bros game compared to older smash games.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

The difference is that smash gets to add a whole metric ton of new characters due to it being generational. If Fifa and Maddeen did a generation-wide all star players release every 5-9 years it'd also be a lot more interesting I imagine.


Also, smash has been adding a ton more non-nintendo characters as of late, it's kind of like a celebration of popular gaming franchises by this point (kinda like blazblue tag being a celebration of anime games with them adding Arcana Heart and Akatsuki Blitzkamf and even Senran Kagura guests), not nearly as cynical as the EA sports games so the comparison is completely unfair.

You're basically saying it's a roster update. And sports games do have generation-wide all-star players. I haven't played an EA Sports game since like MVP Baseball (the series hasn't existed since 2005 IIRC) and before that, I think, Madden 2001. However, I have played MLB The Show somewhat recently for a 5-year stretch ending in 2012 and that series incorporated more changes to the core gameplay than Smash does over 20 years. If Smash was a yearly release, it would get the same flack as sports games or COD or AssCreed (which has definitely changed more than Smash over the years). Having 1 release every gen doesn't make it immune to said flack. And, staying the same doesn't make it worse or a bad game, it just makes it the same game like MLB The Show or COD. Monster Hunter World has more than doubled its monster roster since release, it's still the same game too.

Smash bros fighters all have different movesets, which means different hitboxe's, different start up and different end lag times, different abilities and combo's from the different moves they do, and even the echo fighters with the same movesets as the original fighter have different knockback effect and damage percentage than what the original fighters would do.

and when you ignore all of the fighter difference's there are also both new old stage's with each smash bros generation with different stage hazards.

there are different items to use

there are different game modes

there is always a shit tonne of new music added to the games.

if people want to say all smash bros games are exactly the same just with different characters then are just as wrong as if someone were to say all 3rd person cover shooters like TLOU and Uncharted were same. Smash Bros has a shit load of change's to it each generation but some people around here just want to ignore all the difference's like Mario's Cape being added and just make huge ignorant blanket statements about the franchise instead.

And, I can go into all the minutiae of minor changes that went into MLB The Show when I played it yearly, it doesn't make it a different game. The Show added entirely new interfaces for hitting/pitching and new game modes along with all the little under-the-hood stuff that can have major effects themselves. I can also go into all the minutiae of patches to online games that I've played where they alter a whole bunch of little things. I'm sure Rainbow 6 Siege goes through at least as many changes as Smash (between the last 2 entries) and it does it on a yearly basis because when I played the beta, it was a unbalanced shitty game with bad netcode. I chose not to buy it because Ubisoft has a track record of not supporting games post-launch and for once, they actually did support a game post-launch and R6 Siege is considered one of the best online shooters to come out this gen. Though nobody would consider each year of R6 Siege to be a new/different game every year, same with MLB The Show. Smash is very much the same type of game.

And just because a game is in 3rd-person, has a cover mechanic, and has shooting mechanics doesn't make it the same game or even same genre. Hitman is a puzzle game for example. Vanquish is very different from any other shooter out there. And TLOU and Uncharted are very different experiences.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Plot twist!

not really.

he could watch youtube videos himself if he wants to see differences between the current smash bros game compared to older smash games.

I've played literally every Smash game...

 

[Yoshi178]

And, I can go into all the minutiae of minor changes that went into MLB The Show when I played it yearly, it doesn't make it a different game. Smash is very much the same type of game.

And just because a game is in 3rd-person, has a cover mechanic, and has shooting mechanics doesn't make it the same game or even same genre. Hitman is a puzzle game for example. Vanquish is very different from any other shooter out there. And TLOU and Uncharted are very different experiences.

just like i could go into all the minutiae details as to why Uncharted and TLOU are different from each other.

doesn't change the fact that i can just as easily also throw around a blanket statement and say that "TLOU is just ANOTHER cover based shooter that's hardly different from Uncharted at all" if you're also going to make a massive blanket statement and say that "all smash bros are the same just with more fighters" or i could even say something like "all uncharted games are exactly the same and TLOU2 is exactly the same as TLOU1"

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

doesn't change the fact that i can just as easily also throw around a blanket statement and say that "TLOU is just ANOTHER cover based shooter that's hardly different from Uncharted at all"

You can throw it around just like you could throw around "the earth is flat and all other planets are flat", though what they have in common is everyone knows it's wrong.

if you're also going to make a massive blanket statement and say that "all smash bros are the same just with more fighters" or i could even say something like "all uncharted games are exactly the same and TLOU2 is exactly the same as TLOU1"

That's pretty true for Uncharted except for the 1st one, which was just a tech demo. It'll probably be true for TLOU2.

 

[CritialGaming]

GOTY thread discussion derailed by pages of Yoshi being upset about Smash Bros comments.

All bow to the Mighty Nintendo, and purge the heretics who dare think otherwise!

*looks back over the thread* Wait.....Yoshi actually just upset himself over this? Alright....

 

[Avnger]

GOTY thread discussion derailed by pages of Yoshi being upset about Smash Bros comments.

All bow to the Mighty Nintendo, and purge the heretics who dare think otherwise!

*looks back over the thread* Wait.....Yoshi actually just upset himself over this? Alright....

It's a beautiful thing.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

The difference is that smash gets to add a whole metric ton of new characters due to it being generational. If Fifa and Maddeen did a generation-wide all star players release every 5-9 years it'd also be a lot more interesting I imagine.


Also, smash has been adding a ton more non-nintendo characters as of late, it's kind of like a celebration of popular gaming franchises by this point (kinda like blazblue tag being a celebration of anime games with them adding Arcana Heart and Akatsuki Blitzkamf and even Senran Kagura guests), not nearly as cynical as the EA sports games so the comparison is completely unfair.

You're basically saying it's a roster update. And sports games do have generation-wide all-star players. I haven't played an EA Sports game since like MVP Baseball (the series hasn't existed since 2005 IIRC) and before that, I think, Madden 2001. However, I have played MLB The Show somewhat recently for a 5-year stretch ending in 2012 and that series incorporated more changes to the core gameplay than Smash does over 20 years. If Smash was a yearly release, it would get the same flack as sports games or COD or AssCreed (which has definitely changed more than Smash over the years). Having 1 release every gen doesn't make it immune to said flack. And, staying the same doesn't make it worse or a bad game, it just makes it the same game like MLB The Show or COD. Monster Hunter World has more than doubled its monster roster since release, it's still the same game too.

The comparison doesn't work because a roster in a platform fighter is not the same as a roster in a sports game. Each character is basically their own completely new set of actions. In sports you may have players with better parameters and stats which affects how good they are at things, so for example, the roster update will affect how fast you can dribble or how high you can jump, but that is nothing compared to a fighting game. The equivalent would be to have each new roster addition come with their own completely unique mechanics and animations, completely mechanically unique ways of playing basketball, as though you brought characters from a different basketball game into 2k basically. And you'd have to do this for each new member of the roster.


Sports games do indeed suffer from being too mechanically samey but you definitely can't expand that issue to other genres like you're attempting to do. That's an extremely shallow surface-level analysis of what is included when you update a fighter's roster.

Remember, when you introduce someone who does a bunch of brand new things, you are introducing the need to play in such a way that deals with these new things to every other already-existing character. You're basically completely revolutionizing the rules and approaches of the game for every other character too. A sports game just can't achieve that by adding a guy who kicks the ball 10 feet further for the same effort or runs 100 meters in 0.5 seconds faster than the other guys.