The 2019 GOTY Awards

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

The comparison doesn't work because a roster in a platform fighter is not the same as a roster in a sports game. Each character is basically their own completely new set of actions. In sports you may have players with better parameters and stats which affects how good they are at things, so for example, the roster update will affect how fast you can dribble or how high you can jump, but that is nothing compared to a fighting game. The equivalent would be to have each new roster addition come with their own completely unique mechanics and animations, completely mechanically unique ways of playing basketball, as though you brought characters from a different basketball game into 2k basically. And you'd have to do this for each new member of the roster.

Sports games do indeed suffer from being too mechanically samey but you definitely can't expand that issue to other genres like you're attempting to do. That's an extremely shallow surface-level analysis of what is included when you update a fighter's roster.

Remember, when you introduce someone who does a bunch of brand new things, you are introducing the need to play in such a way that deals with these new things to every other already-existing character. You're basically completely revolutionizing the rules and approaches of the game for every other character too. A sports game just can't achieve that by adding a guy who kicks the ball 10 feet further for the same effort or runs 100 meters in 0.5 seconds faster than the other guys.

I wasn't saying a sports roster update is the same thing as a fighting game roster update, I only mentioned that because you said something about generation-wide all-stars in sports game when they already have that. I was referencing other changes in The Show (like new batting and pitching interfaces) that have changed The Show more than Smash's core has changed and even then The Show is The Show. I'm saying the core game is the same game. I fully understand how new fighting game characters add more variety to the game over new players in a sports game. Tons of games have similar additions to their games like Overwatch or R6 Siege adding new characters, MOBAs like LoL, PnP RPGs adding new classes and monsters. Adding cards to pretty much like any card-based game like Magic (adding new cards totally changes up the card combinations); heck, Slay the Spire runs would be akin to playing Smash with a completely different roster every time. Overwatch characters add far more dynamics than Smash characters do as "hero" games give characters powers/abilities that are more far reaching. However; LoL, Overwatch, etc aren't up for GOTY awards just because the roster changed even though that's adding the same or more that every iteration of Smash offers.

 

[Yoshi178]

GOTY thread discussion derailed by pages of Yoshi being upset about Smash Bros comments.

All bow to the Mighty Nintendo, and purge the heretics who dare think otherwise!

*looks back over the thread* Wait.....Yoshi actually just upset himself over this? Alright....

It's a beautiful thing.

i actually find it hilarious that Phoenix, nor you any of you guys mocking me still haven't been able to do the very thing i originally asked Phoenix to do for me in the first place

all i asked was for Phoenix to simply back up his claim and prove it when he said that Monster Hunter has changed more in 2 years than Smash Bros has in 20.

him and none of you guys have been able to do that yet....i wonder why???

 

[Yoshi178]

Overwatch characters add far more dynamics than Smash characters do as "hero" games give characters powers/abilities that are more far reaching. However; LoL, Overwatch, etc aren't up for GOTY awards just because the roster changed even though that's adding the same or more that every iteration of Smash offers.

1. Overwatch is a 2016 game. it wouldn't even be eligible for a 2019 GOTY award because of that and the only reason Smash Bros Ultimate is eligible for the 2019 award is because it came out at the very end of 2018, AFTER the cut off date for all of the nominees at 2018's Game Awards show had been made.

2. Overwatch DID win multiple awards including GOTY.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overwatch_(video_game)

Awards
Overwatch won numerous awards in 2016, including being named Game of the Year at The Game Awards 2016, D.I.C.E. Awards, and Game Developers Choice Awards, as well as several awards and nominations highlighting its game direction and as a leading multiplayer game. Several publications, including IGN,[154] GameSpot,[155][156][157][158] Game Revolution,[159] EGMNow,[160] GamesTM,[161] The Escapist,[162] Game Informer[163] and Eurogamer,[164] named Overwatch the best game of 2016, receiving 102 "game of the year" awards across critics and reader polls.[165]

Giant Bomb gave it the awards for "Best Debut" and "Best Multiplayer",[166][167] and put it in third place for "Game of the Year".[168] Polygon and Slant Magazine also put the game in third place for "Game of the Year",[169][170] while PC Gamer gave it the award for "Best Multiplayer".[171] Besides "Game of the Year", The Escapist also gave it the awards for "Best Shooter and Multiplayer".[172] Game Informer also gave it the awards for "Best Competitive Multiplayer" and "Best Shooter".[173][174] At IGN's Best of 2016 Awards, the game also won the awards for "Best Shooter", "Best eSports Game", "Best Multiplayer", and "PC Game of the Year".[154] In IGN's Best of 2017 Awards, the game won the People's Choice Award for "Best Spectator Game",[175] while Game Informer gave it the award for "Best Shooter as Service" in their 2017 Shooter of the Year Awards.[176]

3. we're talking about Game of the Year, not "Most innovative Game of the Year".
we get it you don't like smash. i didn't think God of War should have been GOTY last year either but there's nothing you or i can about who wins what award other than voting.

4. just because Smash Bros games have similar gameplay, does not mean they aren't different games with clear differences. JUST like your Uncharted and TLOU games.

and if you wanted something COMPLETELY different other than all of the difference's i have already mentioned there are in the new Smash games which you called "mminutiae" difference's then i don't know what exactly you want.

were you expecting something like Mario Kart or an FPS shooter instead of the fighting game that Smash Bros is???? were you expecting a COMPLETELY different game that isn't anything like Smash Bros at all???

if you were especting something completely different then you should know that's not how sequel's work.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Overwatch characters add far more dynamics than Smash characters do as "hero" games give characters powers/abilities that are more far reaching. However; LoL, Overwatch, etc aren't up for GOTY awards just because the roster changed even though that's adding the same or more that every iteration of Smash offers.

1. Overwatch is a 2016 game. it wouldn't even be eligible for a 2019 GOTY award because of that and the only reason Smash Bros Ultimate is eligible for the 2019 award is because it came out at the very end of 2018, AFTER the cut off date for all of the nominees at 2018's Game Awards show had been made.

and if you wanted something COMPLETELY different other than all of the difference's i have already mentioned there are in the new Smash games which you called "mminutiae" difference's then i don't know what exactly you want.

were you expecting something like Mario Kart or an FPS shooter instead of the fighting game that Smash Bros is???? were you expecting a COMPLETELY different game that isn't anything like Smash Bros at all???

if you were then you should know that's not how sequel's work.

You're not getting the logic of what I'm saying. I know Overwatch is a 2016 game. What I'm saying is that games like Overwatch/LoL/R6 Siege/etc all change every single year just as much, if not more, than Smash does every 5 years with each new release. Just because 2019 / late 2018 Smash has a new name on the box doesn't mean it's a new game, it's still Smash Bros, the same game we've all been playing for 20 years. To ME, that's not GOTY material. And, again, like I said way back on the 1st page I couldn't care less if Smash wins or doesn't win some pointless award. Professional criticism is a joke in this industry. Disco Elysium is the 2019 GOTY and I don't know need it to receive any award to "prove" it or confirm that my opinions are "fact" or to "salt the wounds of haters".

Your listed changes of new Smash included stuff like hitboxes, different startup/end lag times, different damage percentages, etc. That's all fighting game minutiae that only the really serious players care about. That's the same as going over a shooter's patch and talking about all the buffs and nerfs that got handed out. That's not game-changing, that's ever-so-slightly game refining. You even mention new music like that merits being a whole new game.

When I talked about changes in other games like Monster Hunter World or MLB The Show, I mentioned new mechanics that alter how the core game is played not changes to hitboxes; stuff that's not under-the-hood minutiae changes that only dedicated fans would notice. Outside of the Smash Ball specials, what mechanic is new(ish) to Smash over the years?

I found the following article [https://cstarleague.com/smash/news_articles/895] listing just about all of the gameplay changes in Smash Ultimate and the one thing that is listed as a HUGE CHANGE is that shield release takes 11 frames instead of 7. Another article [https://www.polygon.com/e3/2018/6/12/17452478/super-smash-bros-ultimate-changes-new-gameplay] listed Stage Select coming 1st as 1/5 major changes. Where are the new mechanics at?

I'm not a game developer nor a dedicated Smash player, I wouldn't know what new mechanics to add into Smash. Maybe transition to 3D as the Switch is a mobile device and you can have everyone locally together playing on their own system with a normal moveable camera and everything. You don't need everyone playing on the same TV anymore due to the Switch's portability. That would definitely be a NEW Smash game while simultaneously not being a kart racer or a FPS.

all i asked was for Phoenix to simply back up his claim and prove it when he said that Monster Hunter has changed more in 2 years than Smash Bros has in 20.

him and none of you guys have been able to do that yet....i wonder why???

I kinda just did above. Monster Hunter World added a new clutch claw mechanic, what completely NEW MECHANIC does Smash Ultimate have that no other Smash game has?

 

[Yoshi178]

I'm not a game developer nor a dedicated Smash player, I wouldn't know what new mechanics to add into Smash. Maybe transition to 3D

that wouldn't be a Super Smash Bros game.
Smash Bros is not a 3D fighting game. play Tekken if you want a 3D fighting game.

as the Switch is a mobile device and you can have everyone locally together playing on their own system with a normal moveable camera and everything. You don't need everyone playing on the same TV anymore due to the Switch's portability.

Super Smash Bros for Nintendo 3DS and like you just said,Super Smash Smash Bros Ultimate both already let everyone play locally on their own system with a normal moveable camera and everything

That would definitely be a NEW Smash game

by your logic no it wouldn't since Ultimate and 3DS already do this portability feature or i guess it would make 3DS this amazing new smash game since it was the first to do portable smash, and it should make ultimate even more amazing since it can do both portable and on the tv if we use your own logic.

I kinda just did above. Monster Hunter World added a new clutch claw mechanic, what completely NEW MECHANIC does Smash Ultimate have that no other Smash game has?

grappling hooks have been done in MANY games, not just monster hunter.

 

[Avnger]

GOTY thread discussion derailed by pages of Yoshi being upset about Smash Bros comments.

All bow to the Mighty Nintendo, and purge the heretics who dare think otherwise!

*looks back over the thread* Wait.....Yoshi actually just upset himself over this? Alright....

It's a beautiful thing.

i actually find it hilarious that Phoenix, nor you any of you guys mocking me still haven't been able to do the very thing i originally asked Phoenix to do for me in the first place

all i asked was for Phoenix to simply back up his claim and prove it when he said that Monster Hunter has changed more in 2 years than Smash Bros has in 20.

him and none of you guys have been able to do that yet....i wonder why???

It's like enjoying a trash fire in real time. I don't really care one way or another what started it; I'm just here for the show.

 

[CaitSeith]

It's like enjoying a trash fire in real time. I don't really care one way or another what started it; I'm just here for the show.

We really shouldn't be encouraging them...

*ding*

Nevermind! I just got more popcorn ready!

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

I'm not a game developer nor a dedicated Smash player, I wouldn't know what new mechanics to add into Smash. Maybe transition to 3D as the Switch is a mobile device and you can have everyone locally together playing on their own system with a normal moveable camera and everything. You don't need everyone playing on the same TV anymore due to the Switch's portability. That would definitely be a NEW Smash game.

that wouldn't be a Super Smash Bros game.
Smash Bros is not a 3D fighting game. play Tekken if you want a 3D fighting game.

Super Smash Bros for Nintendo 3DS and like you just said,Super Smash Smash Bros Ultimate both already let everyone play locally on their own system with a normal moveable camera and everything

by your logic no it wouldn't since Ultimate and 3DS already do this portability feature or i guess it would make 3DS this amazing new smash game since it was the first to do portable smash, and it should make ultimate even more amazing since it can do both portable and on the tv if we use your own logic.

3D would make Smash a NEW game, not the portability feature. And making it 3D wouldn't make it Tekken. Think Wonderful 101 or old God of War camera style.

I kinda just did above. Monster Hunter World added a new clutch claw mechanic, what completely NEW MECHANIC does Smash Ultimate have that no other Smash game has?

grappling hooks have been done in MANY games, not just monster hunter.

Stay on point Yoshi, what NEW MECHANIC does Smash Ultimate have that no other Smash game has? PROVE IT!!!

 

[Yoshi178]

3D would make Smash a NEW game, not the portability feature. And making it 3D wouldn't make it Tekken. Think Wonderful 101 or old God of War camera style.

no but making it 3D would make it a completely different game, not a smash bros game.

that's not how sequels work.

Stay on point Yoshi, what NEW MECHANIC does Smash Ultimate have that no other Smash game has? PROVE IT!!!

i never claimed smash bros is so much better and more innovative than Monster Hunter. i don't have to prove anything.

You're the one making the outlandish claims here, rather than going "No U!" and "Hurr Durr Cape Whore" when i ask you to back up your claim and prove it, why i it so hard to do just what i asked and back up what you claimed?

*Gasp!* is it because we all know you can't?

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

3D would make Smash a NEW game...

no but making it 3D would make it a completely different game, not a smash bros game.

that's not how sequels work.

What?! I guess Super Mario 64 isn't a Mario game then...

Super Mario 64, Ocarina of Time, Metroid Prime, Duke Nukem 3D and many more aren't sequels?!?!

Stay on point Yoshi, what NEW MECHANIC does Smash Ultimate have that no other Smash game has? PROVE IT!!!

i never claimed smash bros is so much better and more innovative than Monster Hunter. i don't have to prove anything.

You're the one making the outlandish claims here, rather than going "No U!" and "Hurr Durr Cape Whore" when i ask you to back up your claim and prove it, why i it so hard to do just what i asked and back up what you claimed?

*Gasp!* is it because we all know you can't?

I already proved my claim, Monster Hunter World added a new mechanic and Smash Ultimate did not. Also, MHW's monster roster has added more monsters than Smash Ultimate has added fighters. But I guess I have to talk about hitboxes and frames to prove that MHW has changed more than Smash.

Literally what reason does Smash even have to release a NEW game when all the changes in Smash can be done via patches and DLC fighters? Smash should be a "living" game like say LoL or Magic if you aren't going to add new mechanics.

 

[Yoshi178]

What?! I guess Super Mario 64 isn't a Mario game then...

Super Mario 64, Ocarina of Time, Metroid Prime, Duke Nukem 3D and many more aren't sequels?!?!

Mario 64 isn't a traditional Mario platformer that's right. the 3D Mario games and 2D Mario games are very different from each other.
other than the facts that they both have Mario in them and are both platformers, The 3D and 2D dimensions of those games change things about them dramatically

in fact that's why Mario is a franchise made up of many spin offs, because they all differ greatly to each other despite all having Mario in them.

I already proved my claim, Monster Hunter World added a new mechanic and Smash Ultimate did not. Also, MHW's monster roster has added more monsters than Smash Ultimate has added fighters. But I guess I have to talk about hitboxes and frames to prove that MHW has changed more than Smash.

Literally what reason does Smash even have to release a NEW game when all the changes in Smash can be done via patches and DLC fighters? Smash should be a "living" game like say LoL or Magic if you aren't going to add new mechanics.

Spirits is a completely new mechanic to the smash bros series so you're wrong about that.

 

[CritialGaming]

GOTY thread discussion derailed by pages of Yoshi being upset about Smash Bros comments.

All bow to the Mighty Nintendo, and purge the heretics who dare think otherwise!

*looks back over the thread* Wait.....Yoshi actually just upset himself over this? Alright....

It's a beautiful thing.

i actually find it hilarious that Phoenix, nor you any of you guys mocking me still haven't been able to do the very thing i originally asked Phoenix to do for me in the first place

all i asked was for Phoenix to simply back up his claim and prove it when he said that Monster Hunter has changed more in 2 years than Smash Bros has in 20.

him and none of you guys have been able to do that yet....i wonder why???

Because you are asking for subjective arbiturary nonsense? That's probably why.

 

[Yoshi178]

Because you are asking for subjective arbiturary nonsense? That's probably why.

Oh really?
Maybe he should do what you guys all used to tell me off for, and stop talking about his own subjective opinion as if it were fact then.

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

Have these awards happens yet? Did I win anything?

Had assumed from the lack of info in the OP that they were kind of imminent.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

What?! I guess Super Mario 64 isn't a Mario game then...

Super Mario 64, Ocarina of Time, Metroid Prime, Duke Nukem 3D and many more aren't sequels?!?!

Mario 64 isn't a traditional Mario platformer that's right. the 3D Mario games and 2D Mario games are very different from each other.
other than the facts that they both have Mario in them and are both platformers, The 3D and 2D dimensions of those games change things about them dramatically

in fact that's why Mario is a franchise made up of many spin offs, because they all differ greatly to each other despite all having Mario in them.

Sure, 2D and 3D are different. But are you saying Super Mario 64/Oddyssey/Galaxy/etc are not Mario games? As you're saying Smash in 3D wouldn't be Smash.

Smash could easily still be Smash in 3D. We've had 2D Smash for 20+ years now. If a 3D Smash comes out and you don't like it, you still have 2D Smash. If you wanna play it, it's still here (like the people that still play Melee). I don't get the point of new games being so similar, make a new game if you're gonna make a new game. It is a problem with the industry as a whole making the same game over and over again.

Spirits is a completely new mechanic to the smash bros series so you're wrong about that.

You mean the "mechanic" that's not allowed in competitive play?

 

[CaitSeith]

Have these awards happens yet? Did I win anything?

Had assumed from the lack of info in the OP that they were kind of imminent.

Nah! The OP was made pretty much right after the nominees were just announced. The real deal happens this December 12th.

 

[Avnger]

Because you are asking for subjective arbiturary nonsense? That's probably why.

Oh really?
Maybe he should do what you guys all used to tell me off for, and stop talking about his own subjective opinion as if it were fact then.

You truly still don't understand what "subjective" and "objective" mean, do you?

 

[Yoshi178]

Spirits is a completely new mechanic to the smash bros series so you're wrong about that.

You mean the "mechanic" that's not allowed in competitive play?

Yep. the competitive smash bros scene is the vocal minority.
alot of people play Smash bros at home on their couch either with their friends or by themselves doing the "casual" things such as the Spirit boards, World of Light Story, Classic mode, or even playing regular multiplayer smash bros matches with *gasp* the items and spirits turned on!!!!, etc

"Literally what reason does Smash even have to release a NEW game"

i just gave you a reason.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

"Literally what reason does Smash even have to release a NEW game"

i just gave you a reason.

That could literally just be patched in, be a user mod, or be in-game cheats that games used to have (and some still do) back in the day or simply gameplay sliders that sports games have. Doesn't seem like that merits a new game to me.

 

[Yoshi178]

"Literally what reason does Smash even have to release a NEW game"

i just gave you a reason.

That could literally just be patched in, be a user mod, or be in-game cheats that games used to have (and some still do) back in the day or simply gameplay sliders that sports games have.

your grappling hook in Monster Hunter could also just be "patched in".

big whoop!