The Atrocities of Your National Heritage... This is a Fun Thread! :D

[DirtyJunkieScum]

I'm not defending nor do I like the PIRA. They would fall under the splinter groups I was talking about.

PIRA is the IRA (from the late 60's onwards). You are probably thinking of RIRA.

It's pretty clear at this point that he doesn't know much about Irish politics and events.

Although interestingly enough RIRA and a couple of other dissident republican groups apparently merged to "re-form" PIRA at the end of last month. Hooray!

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

I'm not defending nor do I like the PIRA. They would fall under the splinter groups I was talking about.

PIRA is the IRA (from the late 60's onwards). You are probably thinking of RIRA.

@_@ Christ, just how many are there?

I'm not defending nor do I like the PIRA. They would fall under the splinter groups I was talking about.

PIRA is the IRA (from the late 60's onwards). You are probably thinking of RIRA.

It's pretty clear at this point that he doesn't know much about Irish politics and events.

I'm just going off of what I was told by a couple of friends, clearly they "accidentally" left a couple of things out.

 

[DirtyJunkieScum]

While I don't doubt that some of them were murders I think your painting the entire IRA with a broad stroke.
Also to give a example from history, the bombing of Dresden was a terrible thing the Allies did, but that doesn't mean that everything the Allies stood for was wrong. The same can be said about Bobby Sands.

800 civilian murders (including INLA etc admittedly). That's more than some of them. That's nearly half of all the people killed by republican paramilitaries...pretty broad if you ask me.

No, indeed, demanding the right to self determination was not wrong, the logistical support in killing civilians not so much.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Like I said to another person, the border is not far from no matter where you are and the republic is 5x bigger than the north. They can go south if they want to be free from the UK.

No that is a fucking terrible argument. I could easily say anyone who wants to be part of the Union can go off an live in Britain but that is hardly a right and fair thing to do now is it? Seriously, god fucking awful logic there.

 

[sarahvait]

Welp, I'm a quarter Japanese, and then a mixture of crap I'm not sure about. Sorry about the whole Pearl Harbor thing. And my Chinese friend asks me on occasion why my people had to go and raze his people. XD So sorry about that too.

And no, I will not apologize for anime because it's just going to lead into a discussion I'm bored of at this point. I like the stuff, sue me.

However, I am sorry for entry 4 on this cracked list.

http://www.cracked.com/article_18867_5-creepy-ways-humans-are-plunging-into-uncanny-valley.html

OHMYGOD THERE'S A REASON THIS SHIT SHOULDN'T BE IN REALITY!!!!!

 

[DirtyJunkieScum]

Like I said to another person, the border is not far from no matter where you are and the republic is 5x bigger than the north. They can go south if they want to be free from the UK.

No that is a fucking terrible argument. I could easily say anyone who wants to be part of the Union can go off an live in Britain but that is hardly a right and fair thing to do now is it? Seriously, god fucking awful logic there.

Maybe we could just give all the green bits back to Eire, then both of those arguments would be a lot more valid.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Like I said to another person, the border is not far from no matter where you are and the republic is 5x bigger than the north. They can go south if they want to be free from the UK.

No that is a fucking terrible argument. I could easily say anyone who wants to be part of the Union can go off an live in Britain but that is hardly a right and fair thing to do now is it? Seriously, god fucking awful logic there.

It really is, the border is not far and if you hate british oppression SO MUCH to the point where you are going to start bombing shit over it then you can just pack up and leave to the much bigger and much more heavily populated part of the island.

It really is god awful logic. Why should people have to move from where they were born just not to be oppressed heavily? answer no they shouldn't and I am appalled you would bring that up. You are now making this about some violent fucking twats and not about who matters with that. It also isn't that much an effort for Unionists to hope on a both to that other island they love so much. It is still fucking wrong of me to say that and have them move from their home.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Like I said to another person, the border is not far from no matter where you are and the republic is 5x bigger than the north. They can go south if they want to be free from the UK.

No that is a fucking terrible argument. I could easily say anyone who wants to be part of the Union can go off an live in Britain but that is hardly a right and fair thing to do now is it? Seriously, god fucking awful logic there.

Maybe we could just give all the green bits back to Eire, then both of those arguments would be a lot more valid.

I don't see how breaking up Counties into smaller pieces is really going to help anything at all.

 

[Hazy992]

And a great number of people in the southern states wanted to succeed from the Union, but it doesn't mean that the Union let them become their own country.

That's not even remotely comparable. Northern Ireland is a part of the UK already and wants to stay that way, the Confederacy wanted to splinter off from the US. Comparing the two situations is either ignorant of just disingenuous.

And you still havent answered my question. Why do you want NI to be part of Ireland when they don't want to be? I want an actual reason why you think this is best and why NI's wishes don't matter.

 

[Hero in a half shell]

SNIP

Talk to a Republican and they will say that the English have suppressed and massacred them since forever and have no right to rule Ireland.
Talk to a Unionist and they will tell you that the IRA are terrorist baby-murderers and the overwhelming majority of Northern Ireland want to stay united with Britain.

I did type out a brief history trying to explain exactly why Ireland is so messed up, but it ended up being about 2000 words long, and missed a whole lot out, and was full of my unfunny jokes trying to liven it up a bit, so I deleted it.

people will say that "The Troubles" in Northern Ireland began in 1969 when a Catholic march turned bad, but to understand why the Catholic march was being held, you need to go a bit further back... to around the 1100's when England first tried to settle Ireland.

It's a real powderkeg issue, there are no easy answers, there is in fact no right answer that will satisfy everyone and do justice to everyone's rights. For centuries two groups of people have grown up living beside each other practising beliefs and traditions that antagonise the other, they live segregated and in fear of each other, and hold two completely incompatible beliefs backed by religious fervour about the only way to resolve the same issue.

The IRA pre-1921 could be argued to have at least had a valid political goal that represented the people and to have followed a moral code wherein they only planned to attack military institutions and did so for purely political gain. Interestingly enough exactly the same could be said of the Unionist paramilitary divisions: strictly pre-1921 of course.

The IRA of the Troubles were not following any sort of moral code. They bombed civilian areas of no military value whatsoever. They abducted tortured and murdered innocent civilians purely for the crime of being Protestant, they used fuel laundering, organised crime, Mafia style profiteering off their own local businesses, and drug running to fund their diabolical regime, and their own pockets. These were cut throat killers who cared nothing for their victims, and viewed them as less than people. And if you think I am being unfair or biased, I believe exactly the same thing about the Unionist paramilitaries, in fact, evenmoreso, since I have seen them firsthand destroy people and communities with their drug pushing and profiteering, not for any political reason, but so they can fund the most honourable cause of themselves.

You mentioned Bobby Sands, well just understand this. You do not get involved with a terrorist organisation without cracking a few skulls. He was suspected of an awful lot, but never convicted because of lack of evidence (no DNA stuff back in those days.) Eventually he was caught with a gun that had been used in a shooting against police, and I think there were a few other charges when they got the ball rolling. He was caught with several handguns, and involved in a few shootings, those are not the actions of an innocent man.

Oh, and just for fun here's some pictures of what our current First Minister and Deputy First Minister got up to about 30 years ago...

Spoiler

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Provisional IRA (1969?present)
Official IRA (1969?2007)
Irish National Liberation Army (1974?present)
Irish People's Liberation Organisation (1986?1992)
Continuity IRA (1986?present)
Real IRA (1997?present)
Óglaigh na hÉireann (Continuity IRA splinter group) (2006?2009)
Óglaigh na hÉireann (Real IRA splinter group) (2006?present)

..what the hell. I don't even know who my friends were referring to anymore.
EDIT:

]And a great number of people in the southern states wanted to succeed from the Union, but it doesn't mean that the Union let them become their own country.

That's not even remotely comparable. Northern Ireland is a part of the UK already and wants to stay that way, the Confederacy wanted to splinter off from the US. Comparing the two situations is either ignorant of just disingenuous.

And you still havent answered my question. Why do you want NI to be part of Ireland when they don't want to be? I want an actual reason why you think this is best and why NI's wishes don't matter.

I wasn't comparing the Confederacy and the Union to NI and the UK. I was comparing the Confederacy and the Union to NI and the UK.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Like I said to another person, the border is not far from no matter where you are and the republic is 5x bigger than the north. They can go south if they want to be free from the UK.

No that is a fucking terrible argument. I could easily say anyone who wants to be part of the Union can go off an live in Britain but that is hardly a right and fair thing to do now is it? Seriously, god fucking awful logic there.

It really is, the border is not far and if you hate british oppression SO MUCH to the point where you are going to start bombing shit over it then you can just pack up and leave to the much bigger and much more heavily populated part of the island.

It really is god awful logic. Why should people have to move from where they were born just not to be oppressed heavily? answer no they shouldn't and I am appalled you would bring that up. You are now making this about some violent fucking twats and not about who matters with that. It also isn't that much an effort for Unionists to hope on a both to that other island they love so much. It is still fucking wrong of me to say that and have them move from their home.

For one thing, the british government doesn't oppress us. If someone somehow felt they did, do you think that this is a good attitude?

"I'm not happy with the country so I want the whole thing to be merged into another nation even though the majority are against this.

I could move to the nation where I want to live in but I would rather have a massive political upheaval instead just so I don't have to move"

You weren't talking about now you were talking about The Troubles. All main IRA splinters have already ceased armed operations and thrown their guns into a big pit that was cemented over. Right now that that is out of the way we know from that comment and the context of what you were talking you were talking about the IRA in the Troubles as you were talking about stuff by the PIRA and the RIRA among others. Right? Yes I'm certain I am. Now during this time the British Government was oppressive and did such crap as the Birmingham 4 and the Guildford 6.

Right so in this time you think it is fair for someone to uproot their whole life to escape an oppressive state? No if the states is at fault there should be change which there was. Saying some Nationalist at the time should just move to Rep is just as bad as saying all Unionists should go to Britain since they both fucking love their respective areas so much.

 

[Hazy992]

Provisional IRA (1969?present)
Official IRA (1969?2007)
Irish National Liberation Army (1974?present)
Irish People's Liberation Organisation (1986?1992)
Continuity IRA (1986?present)
Real IRA (1997?present)
Óglaigh na hÉireann (Continuity IRA splinter group) (2006?2009)
Óglaigh na hÉireann (Real IRA splinter group) (2006?present)

..what the hell. I don't even know who my friends were referring to anymore.
EDIT:

]And a great number of people in the southern states wanted to succeed from the Union, but it doesn't mean that the Union let them become their own country.

That's not even remotely comparable. Northern Ireland is a part of the UK already and wants to stay that way, the Confederacy wanted to splinter off from the US. Comparing the two situations is either ignorant of just disingenuous.

And you still havent answered my question. Why do you want NI to be part of Ireland when they don't want to be? I want an actual reason why you think this is best and why NI's wishes don't matter.

I wasn't comparing the Confederacy and the Union to NI and the UK. I was comparing the Confederacy and the Union to NI and the UK.

What? I think you've messed that one up mate cause you just contradicted your first sentence with the second

And you still haven't answered my question

 

[Deathmageddon]

If we in the US apologize for Westboro and the KKK, can we get an apology from Canada for Justin Bieber and Nickelback?

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Provisional IRA (1969?present)
Official IRA (1969?2007)
Irish National Liberation Army (1974?present)
Irish People's Liberation Organisation (1986?1992)
Continuity IRA (1986?present)
Real IRA (1997?present)
Óglaigh na hÉireann (Continuity IRA splinter group) (2006?2009)
Óglaigh na hÉireann (Real IRA splinter group) (2006?present)

..what the hell. I don't even know who my friends were referring to anymore.
EDIT:

]And a great number of people in the southern states wanted to succeed from the Union, but it doesn't mean that the Union let them become their own country.

That's not even remotely comparable. Northern Ireland is a part of the UK already and wants to stay that way, the Confederacy wanted to splinter off from the US. Comparing the two situations is either ignorant of just disingenuous.

And you still havent answered my question. Why do you want NI to be part of Ireland when they don't want to be? I want an actual reason why you think this is best and why NI's wishes don't matter.

I wasn't comparing the Confederacy and the Union to NI and the UK. I was comparing the Confederacy and the Union to NI and the UK.

What? I think you've messed that one up mate cause you just contradicted your first sentence with the second

And you still haven't answered my question

lol, my bad.

I meant to type.... "I wasn't comparing the Confederacy and the Union to NI and the UK. I was comparing the Confederacy and the Union to NI and Ireland."