The Bad Ideas Guy

[The_Darkness]

It's a way of letting newer players get a hook into the game without immediately getting wiped out by everyone else. Which is good, isn't it?

How can a terrible weapon that pretty much won't kill any player, good for "letting newer players get a hook into the game"? Also, no, I don't think casualizing your game for an inexperienced fanbase is good. They are the ones who should learn and get good at playing it, not the other way around.

Be aware that you are talking to someone that has never played COD, and has relatively little experience at playing any online multiplayer. I have played FPSes - mostly Halo and L4D - but only as a Single Player experience. PVP is an entirely different beast.

I am also someone that is intending to pick Titanfall up when it comes out on X360. And I genuinely like the sound of the Smart Pistol.

How exactly do you expect me to 'learn and get good at playing it'? If I go up against experienced players, I am guaranteed to die. Usually very quickly. That doesn't get me any experience whatsoever, and I will stay 'not-good'. 'Get good' is not useful advice, thank-you.

On the other hand, if I use the Smart Pistol, I can focus on learning how to move around the map - which is important in any multiplayer FPS, and especially important in Titanfall. I can target the AI grunts, which will give me a chance at staying in the game long enough to actually learn something. And it will allow me to actually contribute in team battles - even if I'm only doing so by exclusively targeting the enemy AI.

As has been pointed out, weapons other than the Smart Pistol are actually more deadly in the hands of an experienced player - which gives me an incentive to learn how to use them once I have actually found my feet in the game. Once I'm decent at handling the less gimicky weapons against the AI, I'll probably be at a stage where I can begin to try my luck against other players.

This isn't 'casualizing' the game for an 'inexperienced fanbase'. This is providing them with a way to play that doesn't feel like running into a brick wall over and over and over again until your nose bleeds and you give up on playing the game.

 

[Makabriel]

OT: The Smart Pistol from what I've seen of it has limited range and ammunition and has a lock-on time so it's not really a bullshit weapon. However, Seekers from Dark Souls are pretty overpowered from what I've seen.

You had to say it, i shall now post a video.

Spoiler

That aside though, if you use full Havels with his shield you can block basically everything with little to no damage getting through. The only real danger is getting backstabbed or riposted.

Sorry, I laughed too hard at the shrugging on each kill. That was pretty awesome.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

only two? hahahaha

 

[wAriot]

How exactly do you expect me to 'learn and get good at playing it'? If I go up against experienced players, I am guaranteed to die. Usually very quickly. That doesn't get me any experience whatsoever, and I will stay 'not-good'.

You won't be going against experienced players constantly. Usually 90% of the players in a match will be of low levels. Most likely not much more experienced than you.

If I use the Smart Pistol, I can focus on learning how to move around the map (important in any multiplayer FPS, and especially important in Titanfall). I can target the AI grunts, which will give me a chance at staying in the game long enough to actually learn something. And it will allow me to actually contribute in team battles - even if I'm only doing so by exclusively targeting the enemy AI.

And you would learn faster using a normal weapon. Seriously, the Smart Pistol isn't even good for killing grunts. You would kill as many grunts with it as with a normal rifle. On the other hand, however, you get used to not having to aim, therefore making you WORSE.

As has been pointed out, weapons other than the Smart Pistol are actually more deadly in the hands of an experienced player - which gives me an incentive to learn how to use them once I have actually found my feet in the game. Once I'm decent at handling the less gimicky weapons against the AI, I'll probably be at a stage where I can begin to try my luck against other players.

If you already played other FPSs, you should have any problem, unless you forgot everything about them. The grunt AI is way worse (probably on purpose); and again, most of the players won't be part of MLG. And it's not like it takes THAT long to learn how to play a friggin FPS. So no, the Smart Pistol won't help you a little bit in this matter. If you are bad, it won't make you better. If you are good, it WILL make you worse.

This isn't 'casualizing' the game for an 'inexperienced fanbase'. This is providing them with a way to play that doesn't feel like running into a brick wall over and over and over again until your nose bleeds and you give up on playing the game.

Sorry if I laugh, but this is fucking ridiculous. Multiplayer FPSs have existed for decades, and not even once was a "Smart Pistol" needed (at least not for learning how to play - aim assist in consoles is another matter altogether). Everyone learned with normal weapons, no one complained. It didn't feel like "running into a brick wall", at all.
So unless the newbie gamers that will be playing Titanfall are completely stupid(and I prefer to think they aren't), they would be fine without it.

 

[Souplex]

I don't know CoD that well, but if I remember right, the Juggernaut perk is the one that allows you to be durable enough to survive more than a single burst.
Which fixes one of CoD's main problems.

 

[Broken Orange]

This joke brought to you by the year 2005.

 

[DrOswald]

How exactly do you expect me to 'learn and get good at playing it'? If I go up against experienced players, I am guaranteed to die. Usually very quickly. That doesn't get me any experience whatsoever, and I will stay 'not-good'.

You won't be going against experienced players constantly. Usually 90% of the players in a match will be of low levels. Most likely not much more experienced than you.

If I use the Smart Pistol, I can focus on learning how to move around the map (important in any multiplayer FPS, and especially important in Titanfall). I can target the AI grunts, which will give me a chance at staying in the game long enough to actually learn something. And it will allow me to actually contribute in team battles - even if I'm only doing so by exclusively targeting the enemy AI.

And you would learn faster using a normal weapon. Seriously, the Smart Pistol isn't even good for killing grunts. You would kill as many grunts with it as with a normal rifle. On the other hand, however, you get used to not having to aim, therefore making you WORSE.

As has been pointed out, weapons other than the Smart Pistol are actually more deadly in the hands of an experienced player - which gives me an incentive to learn how to use them once I have actually found my feet in the game. Once I'm decent at handling the less gimicky weapons against the AI, I'll probably be at a stage where I can begin to try my luck against other players.

If you already played other FPSs, you should have any problem, unless you forgot everything about them. The grunt AI is way worse (probably on purpose); and again, most of the players won't be part of MLG. And it's not like it takes THAT long to learn how to play a friggin FPS. So no, the Smart Pistol won't help you a little bit in this matter. If you are bad, it won't make you better. If you are good, it WILL make you worse.

This isn't 'casualizing' the game for an 'inexperienced fanbase'. This is providing them with a way to play that doesn't feel like running into a brick wall over and over and over again until your nose bleeds and you give up on playing the game.

Sorry if I laugh, but this is fucking ridiculous. Multiplayer FPSs have existed for decades, and not even once was a "Smart Pistol" needed (at least not for learning how to play - aim assist in consoles is another matter altogether). Everyone learned with normal weapons, no one complained. It didn't feel like "running into a brick wall", at all.
So unless the newbie gamers that will be playing Titanfall are completely stupid(and I prefer to think they aren't), they would be fine without it.

Multiplayer FPS's have existed for decades, and they have always had smart pistols. At least the good ones. Now, they didn't take the form of a pistol that locks onto the head of your opponent (that's a new one too my knowledge,) but there has always been that newbie friendly weapon that lets new or unskilled players contribute without being an actually great weapon. For example, COD had the noob tube. Not actually a great weapon, but easy to use and thus allowed newer players to contribute. You didn't really have to aim it to be successful. Just point in the general direction of the opponent and fire.

Noob weapons like this can be traced all the way back to the original Counter Strike. It is a well established design principle of Multiplayer FPS's. The exact form of noob weapons depend on the needs of the game but the point is always the same: a weapon that lets new players contribute without actually being good in order to smooth out the difficulty curve.

The reason why Titanfall's noob weapon takes the form of an auto locking pistol is that the game is based on both vertical and horizontal movement - hitting a flying target with a grenade is super hard. Thus the smart pistol. You don't really have to aim it, just point it in the general direction and fire. And yet it is undeniable an inferior weapon.

 

[tdylan]

So... who's the gritty reboot Iron Man-lookalike supposed to be? Or is that just "Arbitrary Gritty Reboot No. 212"?

Also, the Smart Pistol sounds like a decent weapon for people less used to shooters, since as Matthi205 said, it's less easy to use it against players (what with a lock-on, charge-up time) but works well against the AI grunts. It's a way of letting newer players get a hook into the game without immediately getting wiped out by everyone else. Which is good, isn't it?

That was the point of the Sawed-Off shotgun in Gears of War 3. To give new-comers a chance against gnasher "pros." The Gnasher community raged with a hard-on that I usually reserve for pornstars on a cocktail of viagra and cocaine. The sawed off was nerfed into uselessness. Titanfall doesn't have a pre-existing fanbase of "gnasher lovers," so the smart pistol may get a pass. Time will tell.

 

[Eldritch Warlord]

I always find it funny that people use some kind of "reverse defense" to justify the Smart Pistol. "But it's not any good at all so it's not a problem! In fact, it's so bad no one should use it!"

What's the point of having it in the game, then?

Smart pistol isn't terrible unless you use it like an SMG or carbine. It's almost completely useless in a "fair" fight with a pilot but if you avoid their attention long enough to get a full lock you can kill them instantly. The smart locking can also help you spot enemies. Plus it's very satisfying to watch a bunch of minions simultaneously drop dead.

 

[wAriot]

Multiplayer FPS's have existed for decades, and they have always had smart pistols. At least the good ones. Now, they didn't take the form of a pistol that locks onto the head of your opponent (that's a new one too my knowledge,) but there has always been that newbie friendly weapon that lets new or unskilled players contribute without being an actually great weapon. For example, COD had the noob tube. Not actually a great weapon, but easy to use and thus allowed newer players to contribute. You didn't really have to aim it to be successful. Just point in the general direction of the opponent and fire.

Right and wrong. Yes, the grenade launcher was a noob weapon (hence "noob tube"), because it is easy to get kills with it. But it wasn't designed like that. Most people despised the noob tube and its users. If the game had dedicated servers, most would forbid it, or would ban you for using it. On the other hand, the Smart Pistol is clearly designed to be easy to use (and I emphasize easy to use, not easy to kill with), but you won't get kills with it, or at least not many.

Noob weapons like this can be traced all the way back to the original Counter Strike. It is a well established design principle of Multiplayer FPS's. The exact form of noob weapons depend on the needs of the game but the point is always the same: a weapon that lets new players contribute without actually being good in order to smooth out the difficulty curve.

And again: those weapons weren't designed for new players. Those weapons were just broken. There was no designer or developer that said "hey, you know what? Let's make a weapon that lets new players kill easily". You know why? Because that's fucking stupid. And also again: most broken weapons are usually banned, if the game allows it.

The reason why Titanfall's noob weapon takes the form of an auto locking pistol is that the game is based on both vertical and horizontal movement - hitting a flying target with a grenade is super hard. Thus the smart pistol.

I'm not sure what kind of point are you trying to make here. They could make "smart grenades" that fly to the enemy (like in Borderlands). Now THAT would be a broken weapon.

You don't really have to aim it, just point it in the general direction and fire. And yet it is undeniable an inferior weapon.

Exactly. And therefore there is no point for it. Yes, you don't have to aim. No, you won't kill anyone. Why the hell would you use it? Just learn how to properly use a rifle.

 

[Darth_Payn]

The Bad Ideas Guy

...And Capcom is pretty much entirely staffed by these guys.

Read Full Article

That would explain Resident Evil 6, then. Hiyoooooooh!
Having not played Titanfall (yet), all this defending of the Smart Pistol in the comments has me thinking Grey winds up on the wrong end of that thing way too often.

So... who's the gritty reboot Iron Man-lookalike supposed to be? Or is that just "Arbitrary Gritty Reboot No. 212"?

Nope, Bomberman for the Xbox 360, I shit you not.

Spoiler

Who THE FUCK thought THAT was a brilliant idea?! I thought I successfully repressed that in my memory, but it just came back! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

Look at that monstrosity! Did they really think that fans of the game were gonna go for that...thing?

I... Oh.

Oh.

You have got to be kidding- *Checks* -but you're not...

Who in the world thought that was a good idea? What happened to the pink and blue Bomberman that we know and love?!

 

[DrOswald]

Multiplayer FPS's have existed for decades, and they have always had smart pistols. At least the good ones. Now, they didn't take the form of a pistol that locks onto the head of your opponent (that's a new one too my knowledge,) but there has always been that newbie friendly weapon that lets new or unskilled players contribute without being an actually great weapon. For example, COD had the noob tube. Not actually a great weapon, but easy to use and thus allowed newer players to contribute. You didn't really have to aim it to be successful. Just point in the general direction of the opponent and fire.

Right and wrong. Yes, the grenade launcher was a noob weapon (hence "noob tube"), because it is easy to get kills with it. But it wasn't designed like that. Most people despised the noob tube and its users. If the game had dedicated servers, most would forbid it, or would ban you for using it. On the other hand, the Smart Pistol is clearly designed to be easy to use (and I emphasize easy to use, not easy to kill with), but you won't get kills with it, or at least not many.

Noob weapons like this can be traced all the way back to the original Counter Strike. It is a well established design principle of Multiplayer FPS's. The exact form of noob weapons depend on the needs of the game but the point is always the same: a weapon that lets new players contribute without actually being good in order to smooth out the difficulty curve.

And again: those weapons weren't designed for new players. Those weapons were just broken. There was no designer or developer that said "hey, you know what? Let's make a weapon that lets new players kill easily". You know why? Because that's fucking stupid. And also again: most broken weapons are usually banned, if the game allows it.

Actually, many of these weapons are specifically designed for this purpose. And the reason they are often banned on dedicated servers is because dedicated servers are usually made by hardcore players for hardcore players who get really pissy about a weapon that eliminates a significant portion of skill from the game even if they are not good. And rightly so - a noob weapon has no place in a match between veterans. However, that does not mean the weapon is broken or the developers made a mistake.

The noob tube was specifically designed for this purpose. This is why the weapon keeps on getting in the games despite the hardcore players always saying it is a broken weapon. It is not an accident it keeps on getting put in there in its "broken" form.

The reason why Titanfall's noob weapon takes the form of an auto locking pistol is that the game is based on both vertical and horizontal movement - hitting a flying target with a grenade is super hard. Thus the smart pistol.

I'm not sure what kind of point are you trying to make here. They could make "smart grenades" that fly to the enemy (like in Borderlands). Now THAT would be a broken weapon.

The point was that most noob weapons are AOE weapons because that makes it easier to hit your opponent. The smart pistol is no different from these other noob weapons because it does the same thing - makes it easier to hit your opponent - by a different route.

You don't really have to aim it, just point it in the general direction and fire. And yet it is undeniable an inferior weapon.

Exactly. And therefore there is no point for it. Yes, you don't have to aim. No, you won't kill anyone. Why the hell would you use it? Just learn how to properly use a rifle.

No, the pistol has a very important point. When a person first picks up a FPS they need to learn a ton of things. How to move, how to dodge, how to sneak up on people, how to aim. Titanfall adds more variables: how to use the titan, how to scale walls, when and how to kill NPC's to maximize your effectiveness.

The smart pistol does a very important thing: it teaches people how to move during combat. It teaches them to dodge. In an FPS who wins in a firefight depends on two things: precision aiming and effective dodging. Learning both at once can be difficult. The smart pistol eliminates the need for precision aiming allowing the new player to focus entirely on dodging, along with giving a clear indicator of partial success - if they got two lock ons they know they were very close. Their dodging that time was pretty good, but not quite good enough. If they only got one they know that what they tried was a bad idea. The smart pistol teaches and reinforces good movement.

Once dodging becomes second nature they can move onto a more effective weapon that also requires precision aiming. It means they only have to learn one skill at a time. That is why the weapon has value.

Finally, the person is practically guaranteed some measure of success. If they manage to sneak up on a guy they they will almost certainly get a kill, for example. Had a new player been using a normal weapon they will likely be unable to aim well and will miss that rare opportunity. With the smart pistol a player will likely get at least one kill a game (and they will get plenty of NPC kills.) This taste of success keeps new players from being frustrated and reassures them that they are getting better.

 

[Me55enger]

The Smart Pistol, for when you really, y'know, just can't be fucked.

Not game breaking, not game changing, hell, not even that massive a problem. It's just being forced to sit through a kill-cam where some dickbag M'gee appears from the aether behind me and just stares at me for a few seconds whilst his pistol decides which jicy bits it want's to penetrate today.

Where's the effort?

 

[Epicspoon]

Shadow the Hedgehog got his own game and was given guns in it because fans asked for it. This punchline is invalid.

 

[DaViller]

Actually, many of these weapons are specifically designed for this purpose.
The smart pistol does a very important thing: it teaches people how to move during combat. It teaches them to dodge. In an FPS who wins in a firefight depends on two things: precision aiming and effective dodging.

Common man, cod type fps pretty much just require you to run forward, point your gun into the general vicinity of the enemy and hold down the fire button. Where not talking some oldschool stuff like unreal or quake here where you actually had to dodge incoming projectiles.

On the subject of "noob weapons":

A weapon that is only usefull if your bad is a useless addition. A weapon of choice should be a decision based on personal style and strategy (like your preferred fighter in street figher, or race in starcraft). Every weapon should be a viable tool just in a different way(of course balancing also plays a part in this some weapons will always be better then others), not a pair of training wheels that is only usefull if you can´t drive for 2 meters before falling over.

Well thats at least my idea of how it should be in a good shooter.

 

[Cerebrawl]

This just reminded me of that hedgefund "pay money to make mario jump higher" guy.

This guy, Seth Fischer:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/132527-Pay-99-Cents-To-Make-Mario-Jump-Higher-Hedge-Fund-Urges

Ugh *shudder*

These are the sort of people we definitely don't want making any sort of decisions in gaming.

Of course companies like EA is full of those kinds of people.

Microsoft seems to have it as a corporate policy/culture, except their schtick is all about taking control away from the user. It's been going on for a couple of decades at least. There's an old leaked document(the "Halloween memo") about how "for microsoft to win, the customer must lose". This from when they were FUDing the new and emerging Linux and Open Source movement(in 1998 IIRC).

 

[karkashan]

Like the person who decided that a big part of skyrim's main quest should involve talking to the greybeards.

First time? it isn't too bad. But considering this is the kind of game someone would do multiple run throughs of, trying different builds...

It is HELLISH to sit through their dull bullshit for the tenth time.

I've had friends ask me why I constantly kill Paarthurnax every playthrough.

That is the reason, right there.

OT: The people at bioware who designed Dragon Age 2 with a controller setup in mind, then decided all PC players would want that crappy setup we ended up with instead. Wouldn't mind giving them a piece of my mind.

 

[Doclector]

Like the person who decided that a big part of skyrim's main quest should involve talking to the greybeards.

First time? it isn't too bad. But considering this is the kind of game someone would do multiple run throughs of, trying different builds...

It is HELLISH to sit through their dull bullshit for the tenth time.

I've had friends ask me why I constantly kill Paarthurnax every playthrough.

That is the reason, right there.

OT: The people at bioware who designed Dragon Age 2 with a controller setup in mind, then decided all PC players would want that crappy setup we ended up with instead.

Actually, I do like paarthurnax. His dialogue is pretty cool, and the first time I found him, I was genuinely surprised.

But the Greybeards...they're just boring pricks. Not only is most of their early game nonsense a glorified tutorial on shouts, but they have all this massive power and not only do they not do anything about the war, the dragons, and all that, but they try to convince you not to do anything either. Shit, they're the last goddamn people in skyrim who should be doing the whole defeatist "There's no hope, this is the way things must be" thing. The goddamn town guards are more ready to fight for skyrim, and they're barely well armed enough to take on a few forsworn!

 

[Hazy]

Silent Hill had one glaring one. Luckily he left.

"And don't come back"​

 

[karkashan]

Like the person who decided that a big part of skyrim's main quest should involve talking to the greybeards.

First time? it isn't too bad. But considering this is the kind of game someone would do multiple run throughs of, trying different builds...

It is HELLISH to sit through their dull bullshit for the tenth time.

I've had friends ask me why I constantly kill Paarthurnax every playthrough.

That is the reason, right there.

OT: The people at bioware who designed Dragon Age 2 with a controller setup in mind, then decided all PC players would want that crappy setup we ended up with instead.

Actually, I do like paarthurnax. His dialogue is pretty cool, and the first time I found him, I was genuinely surprised.

But the Greybeards...they're just boring pricks. Not only is most of their early game nonsense a glorified tutorial on shouts, but they have all this massive power and not only do they not do anything about the war, the dragons, and all that, but they try to convince you not to do anything either. Shit, they're the last goddamn people in skyrim who should be doing the whole defeatist "There's no hope, this is the way things must be" thing. The goddamn town guards are more ready to fight for skyrim, and they're barely well armed enough to take on a few forsworn!

I like him as well, he just gets the old "guilty by association" thing going for him that just pushes things just a little bit on the "I wanna loot his corpse" side of things with me.