The Big Picture: Age of Heroes

[WolfThomas]

I just want a Nova film now.

 

[Steve the Pocket]

Bob. I want to make this very clear. You may just have outright terrified me with that last paragraph. I've been saying for years that the state of non-superhero, non-licensed comics is a fucking joke, and that by extension so is the whole industry. I've made the comparison to a world where, in the present day, television mainly consists of two major channels whose entire programming lineups are 24/7 westerns (since that's the genre most associated with the early days of the medium), and a few minor channels that don't get a lot of ratings. But imagining a world where superheroes get that kind of dominance over cinema, and having it pointed out that it's not just a thought experiment but an actual possibility? *shudder* I sense a disturbance in the force. As if thousands of filmmakers with creative, original ideas cried out and were suddenly silenced.

 

[KazeAizen]

The only way I can see the superheroes films can be shifted to be less popular is probably a new fad (it never occur to me that Superheroes are like the new Western or horror film of this generation until Bob pointed it out) or maybe they outlived their stay, I mean how long can a contiunity can last but yet again Doctor Who is still going strong.

Superheroes basically designed themselves over the better part of a century to keep going. I mean hell with Marvel basically all the heroes they are using have an "out" so to speak. One or two characters in the comics have taken up the mantle of the hero before them. All the studio has to do is organize the movie that finally pulls that trigger, give the old character a good bye, then set up the new character in the roll. Heck if the old actor wants to come back for a movie you can easily write him/her in. Superhero continuity is eternal and given what's coming in Avengers 3 and 4 Marvel is giving its movies the "out" to do reset to zeroes.

 

[Uncanny Doom]

What's going to make or break this stuff is going to be the inevitable moment that comes when actors need to be recast.

 

[WiseBass]

I don't know if it would kill the genre, but what could really hurt Marvel's Grand Project would be over-commitment followed by panic retrenchment on the multiverse.

How would that work? They'd go big on a ton of new films of increasingly obscure sources, both confident in their ability to churn out hits and also under intense pressure from parent corporation Disney to create ever larger revenue streams (especially in the face of declining revenues elsewhere). But then one of the major films bombs in a devastating way, while several others under-perform for whatever reason. Suddenly Marvel is in trouble - they're under contract for a ton of new films and facing a major liquidity crunch now that revenue streams are lower, and the damage makes potential investors nervous to drive more money back into the firm.

Best case scenario is that Disney can bail them out, paring back a bunch of superhero franchises and leading to re-shuffling at the top that calls into question again the value of such heavily interconnected movies. Worst case scenario is that the liquidity crunch at the company causes the dominoes to fall, and suddenly Marvel is facing bankruptcy - possibly dragging down Disney as well in the prospect.

 

[Hawki]

Watch video...

...well Bob's given me today's nightmare fuel for the future of cinema for the next few decades.

 

[bartholen_v1legacy]

That example about all the potential articles and news stories surrounding the hypothetical Nova movie are a perfect example of why I hate the whole nerd internet hype culture. I haven't read the book, but I probably should, since it feels increasingly like the nerd world is living in its own version of Huxley's Brave New World (as I've understood it): a world where you can spend your entire life browsing through, discussing, picking apart, debating and theorizing about completely superficial, fictional entertainment that won't try to shock, surprise or make you question anything, while completely ignoring and shutting out the real world and its complexities.

And fucking Christ, please let it be that superheroes won't dominate the world box office for decades.

 

[hermes]

It would still take a bomb to stop the train. Maybe not stop it, but put a dent in their armor big enough to put them down a couple of notches. At least, for those that doesn't have that much inertia going. Remember, this is not the first time WB has tried to expand their comic book properties to something resembling Marvel, or, at least, not just Superman and Batman... Yet Green Lantern was such a dud that put a break into any future plans for a Justice League movie (until they decided to try again once they realize the amount of money really involved).

It would take a pretty big bomb, or a series of smaller ones, to stop the inertia of Disney/Marvel, but it doesn't take that much for the other studios (remember, Sony's plan for Spiderman seems pretty shaky right now, but despite Bob's hate, the movies were commercially successful). And eventually, even Marvel/Disney will collapse under their own weight... Remember, at one point, the house of mouse was known for animated features, big enough to build an empire around them. What happened? A series of duds make the public loose interest. In the recent past, Pixar was know for a track record so spotless and impressive the Academy had to create a category that should be called "just give them an Oscar already". What happened? A couple of duds, and the public started paying more attention to the competition (Dreamworks and Disney studios, ironically)

At some point, this ride will end. I don't mind, though... I am planning to enjoy it for as long as it exists...

 

[Ohlookit'sMatty]

For the Love of the Unholy Gods! Stop using Age of Ultron clips in your videos! Some of us have not & will not be watching trailers for any of the Future Marvel films! Just use clips from the films already out! I've got three months till the film comes out & I've spend the last, what has felt like, YEAR staying away from any of those clips

Stop it Bob!

Back on topic, it will probable come down to we the people getting sick of super hero movies before the studios get sick of making them // But Super Hero movies barely make up 1% of the type of films that are currently been made, they just get most of the media hype, like Bob said // So you'd be forgiven to thing they it was the main genre of film that all of the industry is focusing on/working in

-M

 

[Daaaah Whoosh]

And now, here's the bad part about the continued popularity of the superhero movie:
All those bad movies, the ones that couldn't stop us going back for more? They're going to keep on happening. Again and again.
Also, things that didn't used to have superheroes will now have them. Actually, this doesn't sound too bad to me (just look at all the almost-fight-scenes in Twilight, and imagine if they made up the majority of every film), but I'm sure someone will screw it up somehow.

 

[Shadow_Kid]

I just worry Disney is so far ahead of everyone else that they monopolize our collective imagination. These shared universes bet hard on copyright law not being shortened, if not extended.

 

[tzimize]

*quietly* I still think Daredevil was pretty decent.

Now, Punisher, on the other hand...

I liked both Daredevil and Green Lantern. The extended versions of both. The extended Daredevil is a whole lot better imo.

Also. Man. I thought I was gonna look back at Star Wars and Indiana Jones and figure we'd never get a decade as awesome as the 80s. Then Marvel happened. Man this is a great time to be alive ._.

 

[Bbleds]

So I can't remember if this has been addressed, but does anyone have any speculation on how WB's attempt at a DC film-verse will work? Marvel did it right so all the series and movies, for the most part, fit into each other nicely. But since we've had movies and series with varying degrees of success that look like they won't play into the whole justice league thing, it makes the idea seem flimsy. With Nolan's Bat-triology, Gotham (love that series btw), and the CW series potentially having no mention in the DC film-verse, it seems ripe for failure.

I'm calling it now, a long irritating Nolan written monologue about alternate earths is in the works.

 

[KazeAizen]

I'm literally in the middle of watching a big bubble burst. It's kind of exciting.

"...It's possible that they might not."

That's how fads work, Bob. Superheros are big now, until... they're not anymore. Objects in motion tend to stay in motion? You assume that these franchises will remain popular. But, that's the thing, these markets change suddenly, and drastically. Suddenly the next genre defining Star Wars syle film will come out, and Hollywood will have a glut of superheroes that no one cares about anymore. These companies stand to lose a lot of money when this DOES happen, if they can't adapt. Other companies will adapt, and chase after the new fad, while mistakenly believing that Superheroes aren't profitable anymore. No one who found themselves in a bubble fad ever thought the gravy train would end. Then it did. Go look up Tulipomania.

This genre isn't self perpetuating, and it isn't permanent. It will probably last at least another decade, since we're in the middle of a golden age, but in the end it's a fad. Traditional narratives haven't died either. People will always want more then never ending genre installments with no nutritional value.

Your vision has been clouded by your bias, bob, but I will feel sympathetic when your Marvel films are replaced by football movies, or films about clowns fighting dinosaurs or something.

This genre isn't permanent because nothing is but it is pretty much self perpetuating. There is also nothing really on the horizon to take its place. The only thing I foresee putting this thing to a stop is when video game movies finally get good. Video game movie adaptations are about the only well Hollywood hasn't successfully tapped yet. When someone does then we might see superheroes going away. I also like how you scream bias. Everyone is bias dude. Everyone. He's also a realist and he's closer to industry people than you I might imagine. He knows a little bit more about what's going on than you and I. Even from an outsider standpoint he's not really wrong.

Also who says they don't have "nutritional value". Just because they are superheroes they can't mean anything? That's extremely cynical. Heck the people who actually have a problem with American Sniper for being more of a propaganda piece and less an introspection on the guy which it is about have an issue with that it doesn't really deal with PTSD in any meaningful way. You know what movie did deal with post war PTSD well though? Iron Man 3.

 

[Fox12]

snip

I guess I'll start by saying I wasn't trying to insult superheroes, I was just against the idea that self contained stories are somehow obsolete, or even inferior to franchises. I find that stories are much better when they have a beginning, middle, and end. I like superheroes as much as the next guy (even if I'm getting really burned out). Watchmen proved that a superhero story can be just as intelligent as any piece of fine literature. I'm not anti-superhero, just anti-franchise milking. Watchmen has all the nutrients you need grow up big, and strong, and probably a little demented.

That said, I don't think Bob is being a realist right now. I definitely feel like he's allowed his excitement to build extremely unrealistic expectations. He likes Marvel, I get that, and I'm glad he's enjoying their success. But pretending that we're on some never ending hype train is a little silly. A new generation raised on Marvel films will eventually get bored, and go onto the next fad. That's the thing, fads change quickly, with little real warning. Then something basic about American culture shifts, and suddenly the Marvel stories aren't relevant anymore. It will be sudden, and people will move onto the next thing. It's impossible to predict, but I'd say things are set to change in a big way within the next ten years. Will superhero movies disappear? Probably not, and Marvel can always make non-superhero movies if they have to, but they certainly won't be the same draw they are now. This shift is natural, and frankly it's healthy if you want to avoid stagnation.

 

[Zontar]

Snip

I personally don't see Marvel moving too far away from superheroes in terms of what they do with their movies (they may make ones which aren't focused on them, but they will always been there in the background). When the fad dies down what I think we will see is a move back to solo movies with lower budgets, it's easy to turn a profit on the international market with a movie that has a budget of 150 million.

Personally I think a downturn for Marvel would probably be coupled with a general downturn for blockbusters as a whole, which will take more time then it did the last time it happened given how the US domestic isn't what matters anymore, not by a long shot where now the international market can make a movie that was a flop at home be bigger then its competition due to international interest.

 

[Darknacht]

Eventually the market will be over saturated and the bubble will burst.

 

[daxterx2005]

There is such thing as too much of a good thing....
I fear this over saturation of super hero movies is going to kill the genre.

 

[Tojumaru]

There is such thing as too much of a good thing....
I fear this over saturation of super hero movies is going to kill the genre.

I am actually hoping it will. They are going overboard with this and precious few other outings slip through the cracks. And I don't get precisely one thing about MovieBob: he keeps bashing Dark Knight Rises(which was better than the Dark Knight, a film that stopped making sense halfway through) and Man of Steel. But not Ironman 2 and 3(2 was downright atrocious), the 2 Thor films(uniteresting and frankly not weird enough, Spiderman 3 or Watchmen(which was vapid and taken down by Taxi Driver riffs and some atrocious acting).
Don't paint me as a DC fanboy or Nolan fanboy or whatevs, but most of these films seem ludicrous and crass to me. Actually, I do like DC more, but strictly based on the amazing animated universe. Hell, The Dark Knight Returns is my favorite comic book film, bar none. I'd actually watch most(if not all) of them, had they been animated, because the authors would just have more room to breathe and no need for compromise. That's where the superhero genre really shines, where it reflects the style and beauty of the comics themselves. Marvel, DC, deal with this, I know you can. You can even crossover.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

I still like GL more than MOS and and the Noland films. AM1-2 is only a bit worse than the first 2. It'd be nice if they didn't try so hard to dick with the fiction and character designs...