The Big Picture: American Sniper Sucks (And It's Okay To Admit That)
- Thread starter MovieBob
- Start date
Well, apparently this sentence was incorrect, as this video has completely undone me entirely. Well done, Bob, a stirring of hornets for the sake of embellishing on something you dislike entirely rather then perhaps placing enphasis on that which nurtures you. My hats off to you.Armadox said:
The problem here is this isn't actually anything. It really isn't, as at the end of the day, this rhetoric of "what does it mean?" that comes with this type of discussion never actually accomplishes anything, as there are by no means a point of mutual reference one can put on it. It's raw personal opinion without any reason to accept any other view in debate. Rare is it the post that places light on the why of it, and it's usually spirals into the "us vs. them" mentality that is as useful as beating one's head against the wall.
For those who like the movie. You are right.
For those who didn't. You are right, but you're money is already spent.
*squints a little* I'll be completely honest, I have read everything you've said in this thread. And by and large I have never seen somebody with a hard solid, black and white ideology on who or how people should be heard. Your very standpoint spits in the face of discussion itself, which is absolutely amazing. To hold one's opinion to only that which one knows is to deny innovation, as by opinion and discussion do we ever get anything new. If the old hand are the only ones who matter, then the knowledge that they hold is law, set in stone and dies with them. That no one can question it would simply create castes of elite in which every field would be beholden too.jacobbanks said:
Also, "redneck" is not a racial slur. There is, in fact, no island of Redneck where the Redneck people live. Who join together to make more native Redneckians. Redneck is at best a cultural slur (starting as a economical one against those of poverty in the South), and one that by and wide has been turned into it's own counter-culture. It can be used as an insult in the same way you can insult the Goth or Emo. A set of specific but diverse people, who happen to have the same stereotypical mentality on culture and society by which you do not agree with.
I'd much rather see a movie about the deadliest sniper in all history: Simo Hayha. He was a Finnish farmer who enlisted during the Winter War and made at least 505 confirmed sniper kills over less than 100 days, all using an old bolt-action hunting rifle without a scope. The Soviet Union nicknamed him "The White Death" and launched entire missions just to kill this one man, up to and including artillery bombardments of areas where they thought he might be. Eventually, a Soviet sniper shot him in the lower jaw and took off half of his face. Simo responded by giving the Soviet sniper a first-hand demonstration of proper headshot technique. He then managed to return to base before succumbing to unconsciousness. Simo recovered and woke up a few days later, and the Soviets surrendered war ended on that same day.
Seriously, this already sounds more like an action movie than real life.
EDIT: Fact-checking turns out to be important.
Seriously, this already sounds more like an action movie than real life.
EDIT: Fact-checking turns out to be important.
I can understand if someone does not understand what others see in something or someone. We all have that friend who's a diehard rightist or leftist and whose views leave us flabbergasted every time. I will never understand the fascination many people have with 50 Shades of Grey.
I can understand and respect that MovieBob doesn't understand what I see in films like The Interview, Interstellar or yes, American Sniper. I will never understand how MovieBob is able to keep his job while being such a transparent Hack.
That said, I think anyone saying that MovieBob's politics aren't clouding his judgement most of the time are being EXTREMELY disingenuous. Go back and watch the sumptuous, slobbering blowjobs that MovieBob has given to Leftist propaganda pieces like Elysium or Avatar then tell me politics don't play a role in MovieBob's opinion of a film.
I can understand and respect that MovieBob doesn't understand what I see in films like The Interview, Interstellar or yes, American Sniper. I will never understand how MovieBob is able to keep his job while being such a transparent Hack.
That said, I think anyone saying that MovieBob's politics aren't clouding his judgement most of the time are being EXTREMELY disingenuous. Go back and watch the sumptuous, slobbering blowjobs that MovieBob has given to Leftist propaganda pieces like Elysium or Avatar then tell me politics don't play a role in MovieBob's opinion of a film.
This is a movie with a heavy and politically biased narrative. People who agree with that narrative, like Sarah Palin, will automatically love it and people who disagree with that narrative, like Bob, will automatically hate it, and pretend its only about the acting/directing.
People who aren't "warriors" in the crazy right-bad left-good or vice verse crusade will probably just find it boring and empty, which is why I haven't watched it.
People who aren't "warriors" in the crazy right-bad left-good or vice verse crusade will probably just find it boring and empty, which is why I haven't watched it.
Just like my opinion of Good Will Hunting didn't matter because I'm not a janitor/professor.jacobbanks said:
Just like my opinion of the Matrix didn't matter because I'm not "The One."
Just like my opinion of The Lord of the Rings didn't matter because I wasn't a ring bearer.
Yeah, I hope you see how silly your point is now.
It's not difficult to understand the movie's popularity, if it's unpleasant to admit if you're a leftist ideologue: There's a very sizable portion of the country that live and vote right wing, and those people will line up for this they way we will for Age of Ultron. Much as I hate admitting Palin's right (hey, broken clocks and whatnot) come election time a large area of the map is bright red, the Democrats got trounced in the last couple of midterms, and most preidential elections don't have a wide margin between the two candidates at the popular vote level. There are a lot of right wingers that aren't dying out and were happy to have a movie not quite so overwrought in a "war is bad and people die" theme.
Man this is some fucking *powerful* stupid. Since when was killing brown people in another backwater country thousands of miles away fighting for *your* freedom again? And let's say, for a moment, that soldiers weren't just doing a job: surely the voicing of that opinion and questioning the validity of the wars is more respective of that right that they 'fought and died for' instead of silencing it and saying it doesn't matter?jacobbanks said:
Pretty sure Bob pays his taxes, pretty sure he funds the wars whether he likes it or not and he funds their paychecks.
The fact that this bother Bob enough to not only try to pillory it in his normal movie review, but feels it necessary to to do a big picture on it gives me no end of glee. I haven't seen the movie, but his reaction alone makes me hope it does hit #1 for 2014. 
Now this is some high class bullshit right here.jacobbanks said:
War veterans didn't fight for only their own freedoms, but for the freedoms of everyone, including future generations.
That was kinda the whole point.
Besides, if you really want to go down this route, then we can dismiss YOUR opinions on Bob's video, because you're not a creator of a web video series. And if you're not a creator of a web video series, then your opinions of web video series don't matter.
I was inordinately amused by Sarah Palin spouting off about the "Hollywood Left" not valuing veterans. I wonder what she had to say about Michele Bachmann's plan to freeze VA health care spending and cut veterans' benefits?
She doesn't give a shit: fetichizing the army as an abstraction is a way to hide one's callousness about the actual human beings who are part of it.
She doesn't give a shit: fetichizing the army as an abstraction is a way to hide one's callousness about the actual human beings who are part of it.
While I agree with you and would like to see a movie about Häyhä (whether or not his kill count has been padded a bit), I must correct you on one thing: nobody surrendered at the end of Winter War. Häyhä woke up on the day the truce was declared.Storm Dragon said:
It's about how war affects a particular soldier, and how he copes with it.
It's NOT about the justification of military presence here, there or anywhere.
It's NOT about the justification of military presence here, there or anywhere.
American Sniper? More like Triumph of the Will.
Let's not beat around the bush. Soldiers don't fight for freedom they fight to kill people.IceForce said:
Wow ... just wow. How in the seven hells did this end up happening? I mean ... I'm not american, but I just fail to see how people can take a movie (especially one that was so ... bland and poorly done as American Sniper) and turn it into some cultural icon. Go back and watch Inglorious Bastards, because the parts about that nazi propaganda flick with the sniper is exactly what te sheep worshiping this brain-dead movie remind me of.
Uh, you should probably watch the movie before making an opinion about it. The movie actually aims to largely be politically neutral, the focus is on Kyle. His opinion(s) of Iraqis being "savages", or the war's justification, are just that: his opinions. It's never presented as being the gospel truth or not, it's just a story of a guy who was a really, really good Sniper, and what he went through and the effects his multiple deployments had on him and his family.cthulhuspawn82 said:
Bob's biggest anger towards the film seems to be that it DOESN'T try and have a political point. It just presents Kyle as a Soldier doing his job, but doesn't really delve into whether the job he's doing is part of a justified or unjustified action by the Government he serves.
This is, of course, completely disingenuous on Bob's part. What he's really saying is that he just wants it to have a point...so long as it's a point he agrees with, otherwise it's just jingoistic Military propaganda for Hillbillies and right-wing nutjobs and is terrible.
Bob, good episode. Heck, just based on the number of comments you received I probably could have figured that out without even watching it. I'm glad you covered more than "it is just a bad movie" though, or I'd have gotten bored.
-
As for the folks who seem to think people doing job x, y, or z, are above reproach, or that people are only able to evaluate something if they've actually been subjected to it, then you obviously don't understand the benefits of civilization. part of civilization is learning from other peoples triumphs and mistakes. I get to know words, math, and history, not because I created them but because I've studied them. Have you ever complained about a politician or referee without actually doing those jobs? It's the same thing.
Holding anything above reproach, above inspection, is the kind of nonsense that at best stifles progress or more realistically allows corruption to settle in.
Sure we have a military class, I'm thankful we do and that they exist. I tend more towards the "hooray soldiery, yay cop" mentality than the bashing thereof but all institutions perform more consistently, and with fewer atrocities, when they aren't existing exclusively in an echo chamber.
-
As for the folks who seem to think people doing job x, y, or z, are above reproach, or that people are only able to evaluate something if they've actually been subjected to it, then you obviously don't understand the benefits of civilization. part of civilization is learning from other peoples triumphs and mistakes. I get to know words, math, and history, not because I created them but because I've studied them. Have you ever complained about a politician or referee without actually doing those jobs? It's the same thing.
Holding anything above reproach, above inspection, is the kind of nonsense that at best stifles progress or more realistically allows corruption to settle in.
Sure we have a military class, I'm thankful we do and that they exist. I tend more towards the "hooray soldiery, yay cop" mentality than the bashing thereof but all institutions perform more consistently, and with fewer atrocities, when they aren't existing exclusively in an echo chamber.
Sorry to interrupt, but I felt it necessary to say this:
FIFTY SHADES IS TWILIGHT FANFICTION.
TWILIGHT FANFICTION THAT'S GETTING ITS OWN MOVIE.
TWILIGHT FANFICTION WITH THE SAME NAME AS THE OLD HE-MAN MOVIE.
Next thing you know they'll end up turning the Draco Trilogy into movies.
FIFTY SHADES IS TWILIGHT FANFICTION.
TWILIGHT FANFICTION THAT'S GETTING ITS OWN MOVIE.
TWILIGHT FANFICTION WITH THE SAME NAME AS THE OLD HE-MAN MOVIE.
Next thing you know they'll end up turning the Draco Trilogy into movies.