The Big Picture: Batfleck

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

I don't understand why people hate the idea of Batfleck. In fact, out of all the actors EVER to play Bruce Wayne, he actually looks like him the most. He can pull off the playboy billionaire with a dark secret better than Christian Bale. I'm only saddened that he's gonna be in the Superman movie instead of his own Batman series.

 

[Li Mu]

Where'd you get that idea from? If you followed his Twitter, you'll see Bob's been defending Ben Affleck since the first announcement. Know what his reasons were?

Hollywoodland, State of Play, The Town and Argo. No mention of Joss Whedon anywhere. He's a film critic for god's sake, when he says Affleck's a good actor, he knows what he's talking about.

I don't follow Bob on twitter. If that is the case, then I partially retract my comment. But I will still stand by my statement that Bob needs to be less of a fanboy and more of an objective film reviewer (e.g. He needs to reserve judgement on JJ Abrams Star Wars until he's actually seen it, rather than write dozens of articles fueled by geek hate towards Abrams)

 

[Kingjackl]

Where'd you get that idea from? If you followed his Twitter, you'll see Bob's been defending Ben Affleck since the first announcement. Know what his reasons were?

Hollywoodland, State of Play, The Town and Argo. No mention of Joss Whedon anywhere. He's a film critic for god's sake, when he says Affleck's a good actor, he knows what he's talking about.

I don't follow Bob on twitter. If that is the case, then I partially retract my comment. But I will still stand by my statement that Bob needs to be less of a fanboy and more of an objective film reviewer (e.g. He needs to reserve judgement on JJ Abrams Star Wars until he's actually seen it, rather than write dozens of articles fueled by geek hate towards Abrams)

Okay, on that we can agree. The worst for me is whenever he opens his trap about 'The Amazing Spiderman'. It was a perfectly average movie, not the coming of the antichrist that he made it out to be.

 

[Superior Mind]

The Internet proved its worth in making casting decisions when it wept and screamed and protested at the call to cast Heath Ledger as The Joker.

 

[Teoes]

I now can't see this video/thread's title without reading "Buttfleck", which is all kinds of unpleasant. Thought I should share that with you all.

 

[Miroluck]

A thing from the video (when scenes with Bale's voice are shown) - why does everyone complain about Bale-Batman's voice?

I get that it's often used unnecessarily - like when Batman talks to someone who already knows his secret identity - but why was it bad idea in on itself? What, is he supposed to just speak in his usual voice? I mean, I would've installed special device for voice-changing into his suit, instead of "gargling marbles" method, but still.

I rememer having this thought about superhero animated series/movies, too - why doesn't anybody recognize Spiderman by his voice, even his girlfriends? MST3000 mantra notwithstanding.

 

[bjj hero]

Batfleck

MovieBob gives us the ins and outs of the new Batman and his alter ego Ben Affleck.

Watch Video

Im glad others see what a truely horrible charecter Batman is.


Batman is like Ayn Rands wet dream. Gotham city as as a society would fall without this one super wealthy, super important individual. Multi-Billionaire white industrialist Bruce Wayne is born to elite mega wealthy parents. He inherits his wealth, and apparently superior genetics. He even inherited a servant.

By day hes the philanthropist giving to the "deserving poor". By night he comes down from his bat themed ivory tower to terrorise, assault and imprison the undeserving poor, ethnic minorities, the mentally ill, and the disabled who never really stand a chance. All with the far better equipment that only he can afford to buy.

Thats before you get onto how as a member of the upper class hes better than than these wretches. Some of them may be physically stronger or excel at one thing but Batman is super intelligent, well trained, strong and mentally tough. Just unbelievabley well rounded and more wealthy.

Then you get onto how hes mastered 100 odd martial arts, multiple weapons and gymnastics. He is in peak physical condition. Add a master detective, an expert in criminology, maths, interrogation, law, psychology, escapology, forensics, computer sciences, engineering, physics, biology, chemistry, it goes on and on. Oh, and hes a prolific inventor. Oh yeah, he can also fly planes and helicopters.

If any of this was at all possible it would have to put him in his 60s to fit in all of his study time.

Superman is about the same, he too was born special. At least he can say hes an alien to explain it.

OT: I think Afleck is a great pick but if the writing is awful it wont matter. WB seems unable to have fun with its charecters which are at their base kids fantasies from comic books. People forget Batman wasnt always "woe is me" teen angst Batman.

 

[IronMit]

My memory may be fuzzy but it's clear in this video that MovieBob hated Man of steel but in the man of steel video he seemed to sugar coat it? Was it too dangerous to out and out slam it when fanboys were at their most sensitive?

And how was Dogma not mentioned. He had wings!

 

[Miroluck]

Batfleck

MovieBob gives us the ins and outs of the new Batman and his alter ego Ben Affleck.

Watch Video

Batfleck

MovieBob gives us the ins and outs of the new Batman and his alter ego Ben Affleck.

Watch Video

Im glad others see what a truely horrible charecter Batman is.


Batman is like Ayn Rands wet dream. Gotham city as as a society would fall without this one super wealthy, super important individual. Multi-Billionaire white industrialist Bruce Wayne is born to elite mega wealthy parents. He inherits his wealth, and apparently superior genetics. He even inherited a servant.

By day hes the philanthropist giving to the "deserving poor". By night he comes down from his bat themed ivory tower to terrorise, assault and imprison the undeserving poor, ethnic minorities, the mentally ill, and the disabled who never really stand a chance. All with the far better equipment that only he can afford to buy.

snip

Has anyone read a certain "Cracked" article [http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-5-ugly-lessons-hiding-in-every-superhero-movie/] on awful lessons that superhero movies are teaching their viewers?

 

[PH3NOmenon]

Bob, you come off as really, really bitter in this video. To me personally, even unpleasantly so. Not saying that "you need to change", or whatever, just thought you might want to know that on the off chance you read the comments.

It's weird too, come to think of it: a video telling people not to be so hateful about something coming off more embittered than most of the complaints were.

 

[maximara]

Regardless of Affleck's resume, my problem is with DC's weak-wristed handling of their own universe. They're so terrified that people are going to hate their characters that they push out these apologetic versions. Batman is more whiny than intense, barely puts on the costume and the Nolan movies are more about NOT being Batman than being Batman. Green Lantern washed out any hint of the mythology's epic feel to make a milquetoast Iron Man. Wonder Woman isn't even going to be made because apparently she only stands for feminism these days and that's a dirty word on the internet. Superman sells out his own moral code just so he doesn't become the larger-than-life good guy he's supposed to be. And DC keeps scratching their heads when--surprise, surprise--people hate them.

I take it you haven't seen the 2011 pilot for the Wonder Woman series that NBC choose not to do...or air (smart move on their part).

For all practical purposes Warner turned Wonder Woman into Batman with a side order of 'Bill of Rights? What's that?' topped off with some Judge Dredd in that thing. There is a difference between feminism and feminazism and Wonder Woman (2011) crossed that line and keep going for another 100 miles.

Superthug does not even _being_ to describe what Wonder Woman is in that thing. After that fiasco I can understand why DC doesn't want to try another go at the character.

 

[Comrade_Beric]

More than anything having to do with Ben Affleck, I'm just happy to hear someone vocalize my batman complaint I've been rephrasing for the better part of a decade. I don't like superheroes because they remove the concept of heroism away from something anyone can do and make it into something only people who were already special for some other reason first can do. Superman is an Alien, the X-Men all have superpowers, Thor is a God, ect. These are not stories about things you can do if you find yourself in a situation and can act selflessly. These are stories of people who received something from an outside force that just makes them better than you and now they use it in whatever way they see fit. Equality? Nope, you're meant to side with the guys who were born with what they need. Batman was always the first character anyone ever went to in an attempt to counter my argument. "Batman doesn't have any super-powers and yet he's still a hero!" they'd say. To which his inherited super-fortune and purchased super-gadgets would be my retort. Batman still has abilities that place him above you. His super-power is simply to have been born with enough money to win. Superheroes are, at their heart, a fascist concept and I couldn't be more pleased that someone else sees it, at least in Batman.

 

[bjj hero]

Batfleck

MovieBob gives us the ins and outs of the new Batman and his alter ego Ben Affleck.

Watch Video

Batfleck

MovieBob gives us the ins and outs of the new Batman and his alter ego Ben Affleck.

Watch Video

Im glad others see what a truely horrible charecter Batman is.


Batman is like Ayn Rands wet dream. Gotham city as as a society would fall without this one super wealthy, super important individual. Multi-Billionaire white industrialist Bruce Wayne is born to elite mega wealthy parents. He inherits his wealth, and apparently superior genetics. He even inherited a servant.

By day hes the philanthropist giving to the "deserving poor". By night he comes down from his bat themed ivory tower to terrorise, assault and imprison the undeserving poor, ethnic minorities, the mentally ill, and the disabled who never really stand a chance. All with the far better equipment that only he can afford to buy.

snip

Has anyone read a certain "Cracked" article [http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-5-ugly-lessons-hiding-in-every-superhero-movie/] on awful lessons that superhero movies are teaching their viewers?

Id not read that but it was very good. It probably sums up why I preferred UK stuff like 2000AD. Slain, sinister dexter, Finn the witch, Nicholai Dante. My favourite Batman was the one that was arrested as a vigilante by Judge Dredd.

It probably why I preferred Punisher to batman. He was a Nam vet whod lost the plot and owned a shit load of weapons. Makes you think it might have been very different if hed got some therapy or counselling.

 

[maximara]

More than anything having to do with Ben Affleck, I'm just happy to hear someone vocalize my batman complaint I've been rephrasing for the better part of a decade. I don't like superheroes because they remove the concept of heroism away from something anyone can do and make it into something only people who were already special for some other reason first can do. Superman is an Alien, the X-Men all have superpowers, Thor is a God, ect. These are not stories about things you can do if you find yourself in a situation and can act selflessly. These are stories of people who received something from an outside force that just makes them better than you and now they use it in whatever way they see fit. Equality? Nope, you're meant to side with the guys who were born with what they need. Batman was always the first character anyone ever went to in an attempt to counter my argument. "Batman doesn't have any super-powers and yet he's still a hero!" they'd say. To which his inherited super-fortune and purchased super-gadgets would be my retort. Batman still has abilities that place him above you. His super-power is simply to have been born with enough money to win. Superheroes are, at their heart, a fascist concept and I couldn't be more pleased that someone else sees it, at least in Batman.

It was even more obvious in the very early comics. Batman actually carried a gun and the villains he ran into tended to wind up with a serious case of dead by the end of the story.

In fact you can see seed for Batman in the Spider a now obscure pulp hero from 1933: millionaire...check. Dresses up in costume to frighten criminals...check. Uses violent means to deal with said criminals that tend to buy it...double check.

Superman wasn't much better. Imagine Phillip Marlow or Sam Spade with superpowers and that was Superman.

They both got toned down in the 1940s (for obvious reasons) but they weren't that pleasant in the beginning.

 

[Comrade_Beric]

Has anyone read a certain "Cracked" article [http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-5-ugly-lessons-hiding-in-every-superhero-movie/] on awful lessons that superhero movies are teaching their viewers?

That's a surprisingly awesome article. Thank you.

It was even more obvious in the very early comics. Batman actually carried a gun and the villains he ran into tended to wind up with a serious case of dead by the end of the story.

In fact you can see seed for Batman in the Spider a now obscure pulp hero from 1933: millionaire...check. Dresses up in costume to frighten criminals...check. Uses violent means to deal with said criminals that tend to buy it...double check.

Superman wasn't much better. Imagine Phillip Marlow or Sam Spade with superpowers and that was Superman.

They both got toned down in the 1940s (for obvious reasons) but they weren't that pleasant in the beginning.

The 1930s was an odd time. After the Stock Market crash, everyone was scrambling from the middle to find refuge in the radicals. People who thought the reason everyone's lives sucked now was because of rich people being stingy with their money now that their stupid bets fell through became a radical leftist. Even Lucile Ball, later to become Lucy on "I Love Lucy" was a card-carrying member of the communist party, though she'd come to regret that and narrowly avoid blacklisting for it come the 1950s. Everyone who thought, however, that the problem had really been that there were too many poor people, non-whites, etc, dragging the rest of society down became Fascists. Even Charles Lindbergh, the first man to cross the Atlantic by air, was an outspoken proponent of fascism and the protection of the white race from non-white influnences. In the 1930s there was even an attempted fascist coup against FDR by a group of corporate conspirators, including Prescott Bush, Former President George H.W. Bush's father, who approached Marine Corps Major-General Smedley Butler and offered to install him as a fascist dictator. [http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/july2007/240707fascistcoup.htm] General Butler turned them down and then attempted to turn them in by reporting the conspiracy to congress. As you might imagine, no one was ever punished for the near-coup.

Thus, I find it as only mildly surprising that the original superhero comics had a distinct far-right tone to them before the war. Given how few people had any love for the disaster moderate policies had led them to, if the comic writers hadn't been fascists, they probably would have been communists and made comic strips about how the poor just want to have the ability to do well as a result of their own hard work. But, of course, those comics never would have been run in newspapers owned by rich people...

 

[bjj hero]

Batfleck

MovieBob gives us the ins and outs of the new Batman and his alter ego Ben Affleck.

Watch Video

Im glad others see what a truely horrible charecter Batman is.


Batman is like Ayn Rands wet dream. Gotham city as as a society would fall without this one super wealthy, super important individual. Multi-Billionaire white industrialist Bruce Wayne is born to elite mega wealthy parents. He inherits his wealth, and apparently superior genetics. He even inherited a servant.

By day hes the philanthropist giving to the "deserving poor". By night he comes down from his bat themed ivory tower to terrorise, assault and imprison the undeserving poor, ethnic minorities, the mentally ill, and the disabled who never really stand a chance. All with the far better equipment that only he can afford to buy.

Thats before you get onto how as a member of the upper class hes better than than these wretches. Some of them may be physically stronger or excel at one thing but Batman is super intelligent, well trained, strong and mentally tough. Just unbelievabley well rounded and more wealthy.

Then you get onto how hes mastered 100 odd martial arts, multiple weapons and gymnastics. He is in peak physical condition. Add a master detective, an expert in criminology, maths, interrogation, law, psychology, escapology, forensics, computer sciences, engineering, physics, biology, chemistry, it goes on and on. Oh, and hes a prolific inventor. Oh yeah, he can also fly planes and helicopters.

If any of this was at all possible it would have to put him in his 60s to fit in all of his study time.

Superman is about the same, he too was born special. At least he can say hes an alien to explain it.

OT: I think Afleck is a great pick but if the writing is awful it wont matter. WB seems unable to have fun with its charecters which are at their base kids fantasies from comic books. People forget Batman wasnt always "woe is me" teen angst Batman.

Well, I can tell that you have no idea what your talking about because you just used the word "poor", and "ethnica minority" to describe his enemies. Let me tell you something, in the Batman Year one comics the first people Batman goes after are the corrupt police who beat up the poor on the streets, and the mafia who steel from them. The reason why Batman acted outside of the law was because working inside of the law was not an option. These people were rich, old, white, and even a few were fat. They didn't have to be in Batman's universe. In Batman's universe a rich person could train and discipline themselves as Bruce Wayne did, but they didn't and instead they became like the Penguin, another rich guy who hurt those who don't deserve it. Batman fought the system, he didn't believe for a second that his wealth made him better than the other citizens of Gotham and that's why he's better than you think he is.

Defensive? You can tell I have no idea what Im talking about? You cant see how he magically is great at everything because hes rich?

Ive never met a rich policeman and mafia goons tend to be italian stereotypes. You didnt expect each enemy to check every box that terrifies conservative groups did you?

 

[Tribalism]

I'm actually quite tired of Bob's hating on Man of Steel and The Dark Knight Rises. He finds a way to inject it into every other episode of either this or Escape to the Movies. I get that he didn't like the films for whatever reason (TDKR was too long/dwarfed by the prequel and MoS wasn't "Superman" enough) but jeez, just drop the grudge, it's getting old. Same thing went for the new Spider-Man (which I had mixed feelings about) and the Green Lantern. I'm just tired of it shitting up these videos at the expense of a few jokes (which aren't appreciated by everyone).

On the subject of Batfleck, I'm undecided. It's not a big deal, granted, but I do find Christian Bale to be an enjoyable actor to watch and his presence will be missed. On the subject of the overall premise for the film... we just have to see, since at this point it's all speculation (and over-speculation is what ruined TDKR for some people, expecting something better than its predecessor).

 

[Dunesen]

Has it been two weeks? Time for Bob to complain about The Dark Knight Rises again. Seriously, Bob, did this movie kill your father or something? Yes, the movie had flaws, but god damn, you never turn down an opportunity to complain about it or its presentation of Batman. We get it. You didn't like the movie. Hell, you were already preparing to not like it months before it came out ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14dm0Jk6tN4 ). Like your nostalgia for 80's/disdain for the 90's it's just tiresome and the more you repeat it the more you come across as one-dimensional. Hell, man you've had not one but two other big, failed blockbusters come out since then to repeatedly trash. Move on.

As for the news about Ben Affleck... whatever. I don't think I could care less. It just smacks of a Hail Mary pass, DC/Time Warner trying to so hard to stop the bleeding as Marvel builds up and expands its shared universe seemingly effortlessly while DC can only keep returning to the Batman and Superman wells after their one (1) attempt at creating a different franchise failed and scared them off from doing anything that isn't connected to their two biggest characters. Only it's even worse than that because as Bob said (and I agree with him on this) Man of Steel completely fumbled the character of Superman and gave DC no foundation upon which to build a shared universe. Batman isn't being brought in as the equal of Cavill's Superman (in terms of stature) but rather to elevate the character to where he should have been after MoS. DC is saying 'We need to build everything on Batman because he is the one and only character we have.'

The news that DC is pinning everything on a Batman/Superman crossover is, to me, the greatest possible sign that they have no faith in a Justice League movie and/or no clue how to go about doing it. Putting aside for the moment that MoS was not the breakout, unimpeachable hit DC wanted it to be, if they were serious about matching Marvel's success their next step wouldn't be anything featuring Batman or Superman. It would be a Wonder Woman movie. Regardless of how successful MoS could have been and how successful the Nolan Batman trilogy was, if DC wanted to make the equal of Marvel's The Avengers they would be building up the characters non-comic fans know little to nothing about.

Yes, they tried Green Lantern and yes, it failed. But that was ages ago in Hollywood time, and now is the time to try again. It's not the time to be putting all the chips on Batman, Superman, or Batman/Superman. Look at how Marvel went about their plan: they started with Iron Man, a character nobody cared about prior to 2008. Then they had Hulk, Iron Man 2, followed quickly by Thor (another character no one cared about originally) and finally Captain America - easily the most recognizable Avenger - before bringing the team together for its own movie.

If DC was serious about building up to a Justice League movie they would take a mulligan on Man of Steel (but keep Cavill as Superman) and get to work on a Wonder Woman movie for 2015, then Flash and Green Lantern movies for 2016 and a Justice League movie for 2017. Or hell, if they wanted to be daring they could do an Aquaman or Hawkman/Hawk Girl movie instead of Flash or Green Lantern. But either way, if DC was serious they would be putting their money in developing name recognition of their characters who are not already universally recognized. (Actually, if DC was serious Wonder Woman would already be in pre-production for a 2014 release date, and everything else would be coming out a year earlier than I just said.)

But they're not. Marvel made stars of its characters and it has paid off handsomely. DC is content to (or is too scared to do anything but) cash in on what they already have. As it is, I expect Batman/Superman will come out in 2015, and then they'll try to rush a Justice League movie for 2016, introducing all the other characters in one burst and just hoping audiences will care enough to see Batman and Superman again.

This is Hollywood's worst tendencies to bleed recognizable franchises dry and fail to develop fresh ideas on display. I have no faith in DC's ability to build a shared universe because they don't seem to have any faith themselves.

 

[Baresark]

I think Bob's irrational hatred for the Man of Steel has finally blinded him to reality. I mean, say what you want about the movie, it's still the number 67 all time grossing movie. It sits right behind the first Pirates of the Caribbean movie. That could not be considered a box office failure if you tried. It cost a lot to make, but it brought in almost three times that cost, more than enough to warrant a sequel. We should honestly all be grateful for another chance at it rather than waiting for a new budget, new cast, new story turn around again

So in that case, Transformers: Dark Of The Moon is one of the top 10 movies ever made?

And you're talking about BOB being irrational??

I said it can't be considered a box office failure, which is how Bob referred to it. I said this independent of opinions on the movie. He stated, and I'm paraphrasing, that it didn't do well in the box office, so it's necessary to put these two properties together in order to make a sequel worth while. I'm simply saying that a sequel is worth while because it still brought in a lot of money, from the perspectives of the studio.

 

[Baresark]

TLR

I've watched Man of Steel, and all I want to say is that I didn't hate it as much as some critics do, but I differently don't love it as much as a lot of other people do. Hopefully I'm not coming across as someone trying to stay on every bodies side. The reason why I don't is because I believe that the character's where just not very consistent, nor was the tone and feel. However, I actually enjoyed the first half of the movie. Really though, I just don't like Zack Schneider. He's just too much of a bro and his movies really show it: 300, Sucker Punch, Watchmen, and Man of Steel. Sure they have great visual effects, but I really don't like the way he treats women in his movies (although admittedly I have not scene 300, yet). His story telling is usually pretty awful too and I think the main reason Man of Steel was half as good as it was was because Christopher Nolan having a hand in its production. Zack did make some changes of course, ones that Nolan didn't quite agree with such as Zod's death scene, but I suppose it didn't get quite as fucked as it could've been. I guess, Superman is mostly a bro fantasy and it could've have done worse than a bro director.

I agree it wasn't the amazing piece of filming that people were expecting. It definitely had it's flaws. But I'm basically with you on the Zack Schneider thing. At this point he is a one trick pony. He uses that same filming technique which makes it look all dreamy in every movie he does... and I'm getting tired of it. One of my biggest complaints about that movie is they used this technique and desaturated the entire movie to a ridiculous extent. At points, it was very very annoying such as with all the crazy action scenes. It also gave it an overall depressing feeling. This did detract from the movie.