The Big Picture: Combat Evolved?
- Thread starter MovieBob
- Start date
Big Picture?
Bah.
I watched it, and honestly, I don't know what to really say.
For the entire thing, it sounded like you were shooting at marks that just are non-existent, or could easily be explained from a player's view of Halo.
Still nice change from Escape to the Movies and I'm glad I still watched it.
Bah.
I watched it, and honestly, I don't know what to really say.
For the entire thing, it sounded like you were shooting at marks that just are non-existent, or could easily be explained from a player's view of Halo.
Still nice change from Escape to the Movies and I'm glad I still watched it.
Why would someone wage war against a multicultural society? Well, if that multicultural society comes at you going all, "Join us or die," then how exactly are they SUPPOSED to respond? Hell, in Halo, the very game that's bothering Bob so much, humans don't even get the first choice. It's just "die," and that's it. I mean, what, should the humans roll over and be exterminated in the name of diversity? What what what?
That might be what Bob's missing. It's not necessarily the multiculturalism that's bad, it's the price you have to pay to become a multicultural society. In particular, if a multicultural society demands too many compromises of one culture--in the case of the ancient Spartans, they had to give up their independence, and the humans in Halo must give up their LIVES--then of course that culture isn't going to submit to the whole. And to cite modern, real-world examples, would multiculturalism mean that we'd have to tolerate the practice of female genital mutilation by some cultures? Because, gosh, that's just how they do things, and it would be judgmental and bigoted for us to say otherwise. Right?
That might be what Bob's missing. It's not necessarily the multiculturalism that's bad, it's the price you have to pay to become a multicultural society. In particular, if a multicultural society demands too many compromises of one culture--in the case of the ancient Spartans, they had to give up their independence, and the humans in Halo must give up their LIVES--then of course that culture isn't going to submit to the whole. And to cite modern, real-world examples, would multiculturalism mean that we'd have to tolerate the practice of female genital mutilation by some cultures? Because, gosh, that's just how they do things, and it would be judgmental and bigoted for us to say otherwise. Right?
You're fucking kidding me, right? Or trolling? Please, tell me you're purposefully sounding stupid here.maddawg IAJI said:
In the books it plainly details John as a pale white kid with freckles. Where the fuck did you hear he was black?
This is very true, i often find myself defending Halo because so many people seem to dislike it without even having played it. (and i need to be specific, playing one mission split-screen at your friend's apartment does not mean you have played Halo).Danz D Man said:
It's easy to understand why Halo gets so much punishment, without Halo i'm willing to bet there would be no Xbox, many people don't like Xbox because they simply own a different console, but i wont go into that, it's not the time nor the place to start a console war.
The problem stems from people who have not played the game and people who dislike the game on principle (its an FPS, it's on the 360) bad-mouthing the game before having tried it. I think everyone here knows someone who has said "X game is shit" without ever having played it.
Another reason is that Halo's multiplayer is used as an example of games "fratboys" play, i come from France and have never met a fratboy, so that only applies to America, and many countries other than America play Halo.
I think it's all just a case of pre-judging a game before you get the chance to try it. If Halo had been an obscure indie game that was released today without the bad reputation it has gained, i bet it would be universally acclaimed.
i'm not saying you can't play Halo and not like it, i admit that the story is often sketchy and poorly told, and the gameplay can be repetetive, but Halo doesn't deserve such a bad rap.
I'm sorry (though not surprised) to say that MovieBob is quite wrong on multiple points.
First of all, the blue eye ad wasn't made by Bungie; third party was responsible for those ads. While THEY may have some fascist ideals, don't blame Bungie. I mean, that was a subtle enough change that I never even noticed until you pointed it out; I doubt if Bungie had any involvement they would have caught that.
Second, diversity is never trodden on. You might want to remember that it's not about One vs. Many, like you suggest, but simple Good vs. Evil. The Humans are alone against the Covenant, but they're happy to get the Elites' help when they offer it. If it was Humanity and a dozen other races all going up against just the Brutes or something, would you call it a game promoting diversity and equality?
Finally, your point about the characterization falls flat if you give it some thought. Since you're not a fan of Halo, I doubt you'd even know that there's two groups of Spartans. Spartan-IIs, and Spartan-IIIs. The Master Chief (and the big guy Jorge) are Spartan-IIs, who are trained to be a bit more individualistic and free-thinking, so of course they'd be the snarkers or big softies of the group. The other Spartans were IIIs, and were meant as more spec-ops cannon fodder, of a sorts. Their personalities would have little opportunity to bloom, and would obviously be forced into the bitter badass that most of them seem to be.
First of all, the blue eye ad wasn't made by Bungie; third party was responsible for those ads. While THEY may have some fascist ideals, don't blame Bungie. I mean, that was a subtle enough change that I never even noticed until you pointed it out; I doubt if Bungie had any involvement they would have caught that.
Second, diversity is never trodden on. You might want to remember that it's not about One vs. Many, like you suggest, but simple Good vs. Evil. The Humans are alone against the Covenant, but they're happy to get the Elites' help when they offer it. If it was Humanity and a dozen other races all going up against just the Brutes or something, would you call it a game promoting diversity and equality?
Finally, your point about the characterization falls flat if you give it some thought. Since you're not a fan of Halo, I doubt you'd even know that there's two groups of Spartans. Spartan-IIs, and Spartan-IIIs. The Master Chief (and the big guy Jorge) are Spartan-IIs, who are trained to be a bit more individualistic and free-thinking, so of course they'd be the snarkers or big softies of the group. The other Spartans were IIIs, and were meant as more spec-ops cannon fodder, of a sorts. Their personalities would have little opportunity to bloom, and would obviously be forced into the bitter badass that most of them seem to be.
*goes in expecting something about the Halo movie in limbo*
Wait, WHAT?
Okay moviebob, i'll cut you some slack since I tend to agree with you, but if you read the books, your entire outlook on the situation would change.
Wait, WHAT?
Okay moviebob, i'll cut you some slack since I tend to agree with you, but if you read the books, your entire outlook on the situation would change.
Bob, let me get this right out first. I love ya man, I really do. Although your views are biased they're well worded and even if they're one sided they help give insight to at least one side of the conversation which in turn helps give more insight into other sides of the conversation. I'm really happy you've been given the equivalence of free reign here and I usually agree with your views, even on Halo. But man, you have opened yourself up to a major shitstorm here. I know you're no stranger to flamers and hate mail, but you may really be in for it this time. Here's to hoping you're as thick skinned as you seem.MovieBob said:
*sigh* I really should stop before it looks like I have no life... I swear, I do, it's just that whenever I see something like this, I have to point it out.CJ1145 said:
You got the two groups completely mixed up here. The Spartan II's spent their lives being brought up as singular killing machines with a collective mindset, constantly berated for deviating from any of their traning to make sure they are the ultimate soldier. They can think on their feet, improvised, and they're definitely smarter than your average soldeir, but they are completely bound by military hierarchy.
Spartan III's were created as throwaways, soldiers that were nearly as good as the II's, but were quicker to produce. Their training, though harsh, wasn't AS harsh, allowing personalities to flourish a bit more. Example is Kat, who looks up top-secret data just because she's curious. Or Emile, the dick, who just doesn't give a shit. NOTE: I hate Emile.
To explain Jorge, he was a very different Spartan II. He entered engagements against humans as much as, if not more than, engagements with the Covenant. Plus, he was one of the two known II's to work with the Spartan III's, and their more out-there nature rubbed off on him, making him have a more diverse personality than most II's.
A fairly ill-informed and cherry-pickingish attack on Halo.
In my experiences, there have been very few coherent negative reviews on Halo games that I've seen, and the ones that do exist seem to come from people who actually love the series enough to hold the criticized game to the same standards they hold other things. At which level I've seen a lot of interesting and quite reasonable points be made. There are ways to criticise the series without spewing word salad, and I'd love to see a solid, well-built negative review on the early Halo games from someone who didn't like the series. Perhaps that shall never happen, though, since most harsh critics of it, like with most things, never give it a chance.
In my experiences, there have been very few coherent negative reviews on Halo games that I've seen, and the ones that do exist seem to come from people who actually love the series enough to hold the criticized game to the same standards they hold other things. At which level I've seen a lot of interesting and quite reasonable points be made. There are ways to criticise the series without spewing word salad, and I'd love to see a solid, well-built negative review on the early Halo games from someone who didn't like the series. Perhaps that shall never happen, though, since most harsh critics of it, like with most things, never give it a chance.
I rather think that suggesting a game series promotes ideals of racial supremacy, even if you're saying that it was done unintenionally, is more than 'light criticism'. Light critcism would be 'I don't think the AI is very good' or 'The story is a bit clichéd'.delroland said:
Seeing as how the first Tau codex was released less than a month before Halo: Combat Evolved was, I'd say Bungie must work fast.C-Demo said:
I wished i had the same reach that you do! I made this point to a few friends awhile ago, and i got shot down by the "games are not like books" argument. I then argued with them over the stupidity of that statement, most notably how they get all up in arms if anyone else says that. I won the argument in the end, to the wonderful sound of "I guess you are kinda right"s. You raise that point in a manner that allows you to bring up discussion among an entire community, and causes a debate and open discussion that is running over 14 pages!
The best part of this new show is not going to be the show itself but the debate it will inevitably raise weekly, and the growth of ideas we see will see as we discuss them.
The best part of this new show is not going to be the show itself but the debate it will inevitably raise weekly, and the growth of ideas we see will see as we discuss them.
Bungie however didn't do this on purpose, as you even said yourself Bob. In fact one of their earlier pre-Halo (and thus more creative) game; Myth, the side of the "Light" was made up of various races and factions.
I might buy this if it wasn't for the fact that no war ever has even been fought over good vs evil, the covenant are the enemy because they attacked reach
