The Big Picture: Combat Evolved?

[Stabby Joe]

Seeing as how the first Tau codex was released less than a month before Halo: Combat Evolved was, I'd say Bungie must work fast.

So all the similarities in design with Bungie's previous Marathon series was just all a coincidence right?

 

[Stalk3rchief]

To be honest, I was sold on this show the second Bob said "I don't really like the Halo games"
<3

 

[Dansrage]

I might buy this if it wasn't for the fact that no war ever has even been fought over good vs evil, the covenant are the enemy because they attacked reach

They originally attacked Harvest while tracking down Forerunner Relic signatures, Reach was the biggest military base at that point, the Covvies are the enemy mainly because of their tactics, indiscriminate killing, genocide, and they "glass" planets, which means they use their ships to melt the planet's surface to the point where it looks like glass and is completely uninhabitable.
As was already stated, it's more the Prophets who are the true evil ones (and perhaps the Arbiter from Halo Wars, man was he PISSED ALL THE TIME)

 

[aakibar]

i like it, never saw halo as fascist...still love it but oh well

 

[LeonLethality]

Moviebob TGO and now this? Three moviebob shows? Yes please!

 

[Geo Da Sponge]

Seeing as how the first Tau codex was released less than a month before Halo: Combat Evolved was, I'd say Bungie must work fast.

So all the similarities in design with Bungie's previous Marathon series was just all a coincidence right?

Well, I wouldn't know about that having not played Marathon, I was merely saying that it is unlikely that the Covenant are a rip off of the Tau since their release dates were so close. To be honest I wasn't sure that this was the point the post I was originally quoting was making, I was just trying to clear up any possible confusion.

 

[ZeroMachine]

I might buy this if it wasn't for the fact that no war ever has even been fought over good vs evil, the covenant are the enemy because they attacked reach

They originally attacked Harvest while tracking down Forerunner Relic signatures, Reach was the biggest military base at that point, the Covvies are the enemy mainly because of their tactics, indiscriminate killing, genocide, and they "glass" planets, which means they use their ships to melt the planet's surface to the point where it looks like glass and is completely uninhabitable.
As was already stated, it's more the Prophets who are the true evil ones (and perhaps the Arbiter from Halo Wars, man was he PISSED ALL THE TIME)

Good, someone else took care of correcting a mistake someone made about the story -_-' I was getting tired of that. Thank you. I'm sick of hearing so many people say Reach was the beggining of the war. Ever since Yahtzee said it...

 

[CJ1145]

Finally, your point about the characterization falls flat if you give it some thought. Since you're not a fan of Halo, I doubt you'd even know that there's two groups of Spartans. Spartan-IIs, and Spartan-IIIs. The Master Chief (and the big guy Jorge) are Spartan-IIs, who are trained to be a bit more individualistic and free-thinking, so of course they'd be the snarkers or big softies of the group. The other Spartans were IIIs, and were meant as more spec-ops cannon fodder, of a sorts. Their personalities would have little opportunity to bloom, and would obviously be forced into the bitter badass that most of them seem to be.

*sigh* I really should stop before it looks like I have no life... I swear, I do, it's just that whenever I see something like this, I have to point it out.

You got the two groups completely mixed up here. The Spartan II's spent their lives being brought up as singular killing machines with a collective mindset, constantly berated for deviating from any of their traning to make sure they are the ultimate soldier. They can think on their feet, improvised, and they're definitely smarter than your average soldeir, but they are completely bound by military hierarchy.

Spartan III's were created as throwaways, soldiers that were nearly as good as the II's, but were quicker to produce. Their training, though harsh, wasn't AS harsh, allowing personalities to flourish a bit more. Example is Kat, who looks up top-secret data just because she's curious. Or Emile, the dick, who just doesn't give a shit. NOTE: I hate Emile.

To explain Jorge, he was a very different Spartan II. He entered engagements against humans as much as, if not more than, engagements with the Covenant. Plus, he was one of the two known II's to work with the Spartan III's, and their more out-there nature rubbed off on him, making him have a more diverse personality than most II's.

Well, when I'm wrong I'm wrong, but if you ask me the stuff the IIIs were subjected to before even reaching preteen years like the IIs would make me think they'd be a bit more hardened.

 

[uchi mata]

I've always thought moivebob was a douche it makes me sad that they have given him another show and this weeks topic be ridicules

 

[Falcon123]

This is absolutely awesome! So glad I have a show to which I can look forward on Tuesdays.

I don't know if Bungie realized they were doing this when they made the game (probably just wanted to vary enemy types) but Moviebob makes great points, and it's hard to ignore that at least some of what he says is true. Guess we'll have to wait and see if Bungie keeps it up with their next game.

BTW, slightly off topic, has Bungie announced its next game yet? I'm curious to see what they do next. Not to piss off Halo fanboys, but I think moving away from Halo could be the best thing for Bungie nowadays.

 

[ZeroMachine]

Finally, your point about the characterization falls flat if you give it some thought. Since you're not a fan of Halo, I doubt you'd even know that there's two groups of Spartans. Spartan-IIs, and Spartan-IIIs. The Master Chief (and the big guy Jorge) are Spartan-IIs, who are trained to be a bit more individualistic and free-thinking, so of course they'd be the snarkers or big softies of the group. The other Spartans were IIIs, and were meant as more spec-ops cannon fodder, of a sorts. Their personalities would have little opportunity to bloom, and would obviously be forced into the bitter badass that most of them seem to be.

*sigh* I really should stop before it looks like I have no life... I swear, I do, it's just that whenever I see something like this, I have to point it out.

You got the two groups completely mixed up here. The Spartan II's spent their lives being brought up as singular killing machines with a collective mindset, constantly berated for deviating from any of their traning to make sure they are the ultimate soldier. They can think on their feet, improvised, and they're definitely smarter than your average soldeir, but they are completely bound by military hierarchy.

Spartan III's were created as throwaways, soldiers that were nearly as good as the II's, but were quicker to produce. Their training, though harsh, wasn't AS harsh, allowing personalities to flourish a bit more. Example is Kat, who looks up top-secret data just because she's curious. Or Emile, the dick, who just doesn't give a shit. NOTE: I hate Emile.

To explain Jorge, he was a very different Spartan II. He entered engagements against humans as much as, if not more than, engagements with the Covenant. Plus, he was one of the two known II's to work with the Spartan III's, and their more out-there nature rubbed off on him, making him have a more diverse personality than most II's.

Well, when I'm wrong I'm wrong, but if you ask me the stuff the IIIs were subjected to before even reaching preteen years like the IIs would make me think they'd be a bit more hardened.

It did for some. Look at Carter.

 

[jamesworkshop]

I might buy this if it wasn't for the fact that no war ever has even been fought over good vs evil, the covenant are the enemy because they attacked reach

They originally attacked Harvest while tracking down Forerunner Relic signatures, Reach was the biggest military base at that point, the Covvies are the enemy mainly because of their tactics, indiscriminate killing, genocide, and they "glass" planets, which means they use their ships to melt the planet's surface to the point where it looks like glass and is completely uninhabitable.
As was already stated, it's more the Prophets who are the true evil ones (and perhaps the Arbiter from Halo Wars, man was he PISSED ALL THE TIME)

Good, someone else took care of correcting a mistake someone made about the story -_-' I was getting tired of that. Thank you. I'm sick of hearing so many people say Reach was the beggining of the war. Ever since Yahtzee said it...

Ok then why does it matter which fictional battleground was the start of the war my point still stands the covenant are the enemy because it was a military conflict the spartans were not sent to champion the cause of rasicm or conflicting moral values.

wars has never been good vs evil you are either defending against an agressor or trying to capture land or resources

 

[Freeze_L]

A fairly ill-informed and cherry-pickingish attack on Halo.

In my experiences, there have been very few coherent negative reviews on Halo games that I've seen, and the ones that do exist seem to come from people who actually love the series enough to hold the criticized game to the same standards they hold other things. At which level I've seen a lot of interesting and quite reasonable points be made. There are ways to criticise the series without spewing word salad, and I'd love to see a solid, well-built negative review on the early Halo games from someone who didn't like the series. Perhaps that shall never happen, though, since most harsh critics of it, like with most things, never give it a chance.

It was not really about halo, it was about the ideas halo raised. The imagery that it had and the idea it presented. He did not truly criticize the game itself, but discussed the imagery of it. Much like one may analyze a book or movie he analyzed the game, and then used his analyse to launch a discussion about racism. That is what the video is really about, how we perceive race and multiculturality, in earnest Halo could be taken out of the video and many other modern works could be put in it's place and it would still be the same argument and idea.

Also you make a great point, most bad reviews of halo are very unstructured, however i think most positive reviews are just as bad as they give unearned praise and with hold much criticism. I am a fan of the first game but i never thought that the other games really improved much on what the first did at best they improved graphics and added a few new features, the story was not at all strong, the campaign was therefore rather pointless, and the only real reason to buy it was the multi-player. That is my "fan-ish" super short negative review of it, i loved the multi-player but it never felt "new" to me after the first game.

 

[ZeroMachine]

I might buy this if it wasn't for the fact that no war ever has even been fought over good vs evil, the covenant are the enemy because they attacked reach

They originally attacked Harvest while tracking down Forerunner Relic signatures, Reach was the biggest military base at that point, the Covvies are the enemy mainly because of their tactics, indiscriminate killing, genocide, and they "glass" planets, which means they use their ships to melt the planet's surface to the point where it looks like glass and is completely uninhabitable.
As was already stated, it's more the Prophets who are the true evil ones (and perhaps the Arbiter from Halo Wars, man was he PISSED ALL THE TIME)

Good, someone else took care of correcting a mistake someone made about the story -_-' I was getting tired of that. Thank you. I'm sick of hearing so many people say Reach was the beggining of the war. Ever since Yahtzee said it...

Ok then why does it matter which fictional battleground was the start of the war my point still stands the covenant are the enemy because it was a military conflict the spartans were not sent to champion the cause of rasicm or conflicting moral values.

wars has never been good vs evil you are either defending against an agressor or trying to capture land or resources

We weren't arguing your point. We were, admittedly, being fanboys. Sorry for the confusion

Hell, I completely agree with you. But to one side, the other will be seen as evil. Gotta admit that.

 

[movienut]

Well Movie Bob, you were right, you did pick an explosive first topic!

I may not always agree with your point of view (I liked Book of Eli DAMN IT!) but you always make me think. Keep on keepin on.

 

[DarthFennec]

I have a new favorite - wait - no, Extra Credits is here so never mind.
I have a new second favorite show now! ^_^

 

[12th_milkshake]

... yeah talk about looking for meaning in shallow places. Your falling into the critics realm of adding contextual meaning to a game that had none intended, whether the symbolic cock ups are there or not shoehorning it into social dynamics is plain ironic.

The multi culture of the enemies might just be to do with hmm lets see the fact aliens have no limiting factor of imagine or creativity. Where human are limit by the fact that they are human... so cant be as diverse.

This isn't necessarily true. Consider Extra Credit's diversity episode. Besides the one marine that just happens to show up in every halo, where's the black guys? Where's the asian guys? Latinos? middle eastern? How about female marines (besides the pilots and cortana) or... what about a gay spartan? a lesbian spartan?

Like bob said, they've taken some time to push the boundaries of the characters a bit in this game, but you can't tell me you didn't notice that all the marines are either white, british or australian! (I find the mexican ones to be debatable)

Before you counter argue with me that there's not sexual diversity within the covenant, think about it. It's a religious group that has assimilated several different alien races. This means that they have their own background concerning that and... in all likelyhood (speculation here) had their own genocide. Either that, or some of them are asexual or something...

some food for thought

QQ is the answer - And as for throwing around ohh wheres the gays. What makes you think there isn't? because they aren't coming on to master chief? - give me a break - Why must gays have the sex card to show they are present. Look at harry potter - Albus Dumbledore was a gay.
The character was 'outted' as gay was only due to the fact the films trying to give him a love interest and was vetoed by JK for this reason. Being gay or national isn't always clear

I'm Scottish but i look just like every other white male. Unless you want every scots marine in halo to be ginger and wearing a tammy. Which is more stupid that or not identifying it with stereotyped bullshit? Look at the maths of what you are asking to see in a game and the point or part in the whole it would play. Does this add to anything in Halo? No it sure doesn't.

You don't get to see behind the mask of the Spartans because it doesn't matter one bit. Master Chief was what is called in game design - an avatar - a shell the player is cast into. He doesnt speak, or act with you. You are him - so if you are gay or female then so is master chief but shit this is design theory that would be applying knowledge - i'll let you rant without thought for the bettering for PC gone wrong.

The other reason is the fact if every national and race and creed had to be present in a game then the modelling bill would sky rocket. And look ridiculous.

 

[jamesworkshop]

I might buy this if it wasn't for the fact that no war ever has even been fought over good vs evil, the covenant are the enemy because they attacked reach

They originally attacked Harvest while tracking down Forerunner Relic signatures, Reach was the biggest military base at that point, the Covvies are the enemy mainly because of their tactics, indiscriminate killing, genocide, and they "glass" planets, which means they use their ships to melt the planet's surface to the point where it looks like glass and is completely uninhabitable.
As was already stated, it's more the Prophets who are the true evil ones (and perhaps the Arbiter from Halo Wars, man was he PISSED ALL THE TIME)

Good, someone else took care of correcting a mistake someone made about the story -_-' I was getting tired of that. Thank you. I'm sick of hearing so many people say Reach was the beggining of the war. Ever since Yahtzee said it...

Ok then why does it matter which fictional battleground was the start of the war my point still stands the covenant are the enemy because it was a military conflict the spartans were not sent to champion the cause of rasicm or conflicting moral values.

wars has never been good vs evil you are either defending against an agressor or trying to capture land or resources

We weren't arguing your point. We were, admittedly, being fanboys. Sorry for the confusion

Hell, I completely agree with you. But to one side, the other will be seen as evil. Gotta admit that.

Yes but thats no different from calling them the enemy, President Robert Mugabe has always been evil and yet no one rushes off to war with him to show him the error of his ways, America went after al qaeda after 9/11 and they have been around since the late 80's

 

[ShadowKirby]

I might buy this if it wasn't for the fact that no war ever has even been fought over good vs evil, the covenant are the enemy because they attacked reach

They originally attacked Harvest while tracking down Forerunner Relic signatures, Reach was the biggest military base at that point, the Covvies are the enemy mainly because of their tactics, indiscriminate killing, genocide, and they "glass" planets, which means they use their ships to melt the planet's surface to the point where it looks like glass and is completely uninhabitable.
As was already stated, it's more the Prophets who are the true evil ones (and perhaps the Arbiter from Halo Wars, man was he PISSED ALL THE TIME)

On a "galactic" scale, it's not that different from the crusades. It's also interesting to note how the crusaders were also mostly made of an assemble of different nations (French, British, Holy Roman Empire) led by faith into taking an "holy land" from the hands of "faithless savages". On that point, to say that the prophets and the convenent as an whole are evil is a bit simplistic. They are just following their faith and see humans as an annoyance, just like the crusaders saw the Arabs back then.

Also, I find it appalling that so many of you are finding it impossible to analyze games beyond a first degree of interpretation. It's not "seeing things that are not there", it's raising an interpretation from a piece of work and argumenting your point. You can agree or disagree but don't go around saying "durrh it's just a game nobody cares".

 

[Okysho]

... yeah talk about looking for meaning in shallow places. Your falling into the critics realm of adding contextual meaning to a game that had none intended, whether the symbolic cock ups are there or not shoehorning it into social dynamics is plain ironic.

The multi culture of the enemies might just be to do with hmm lets see the fact aliens have no limiting factor of imagine or creativity. Where human are limit by the fact that they are human... so cant be as diverse.

This isn't necessarily true. Consider Extra Credit's diversity episode. Besides the one marine that just happens to show up in every halo, where's the black guys? Where's the asian guys? Latinos? middle eastern? How about female marines (besides the pilots and cortana) or... what about a gay spartan? a lesbian spartan?

Like bob said, they've taken some time to push the boundaries of the characters a bit in this game, but you can't tell me you didn't notice that all the marines are either white, british or australian! (I find the mexican ones to be debatable)

Before you counter argue with me that there's not sexual diversity within the covenant, think about it. It's a religious group that has assimilated several different alien races. This means that they have their own background concerning that and... in all likelyhood (speculation here) had their own genocide. Either that, or some of them are asexual or something...

some food for thought

QQ is the answer - And as for throwing around ohh wheres the gays. What makes you think there isn't? because they aren't coming on to master chief? - give me a break - Why must gays have the sex card to show they are present. Look at harry potter - Albus Dumbledore was a gay.
The character was 'outted' as gay was only due to the fact the films trying to give him a love interest and was vetoed by JK for this reason. Being gay or national isn't always clear

I'm Scottish but i look just like every other white male. Unless you want every scots marine in halo to be ginger and wearing a tammy. Which is more stupid that or not identifying it with stereotyped bullshit? Look at the maths of what you are asking to see in a game and the point or part in the whole it would play. Does this add to anything in Halo? No it sure doesn't.

You don't get to see behind the mask of the Spartans because it doesn't matter one bit. Master Chief was what is called in game design - an avatar - a shell the player is cast into. He doesnt speak, or act with you. You are him - so if you are gay or female then so is master chief but shit this is design theory that would be applying knowledge - i'll let you rant without thought for the bettering for PC gone wrong.

The other reason is the fact if every national and race and creed had to be present in a game then the modelling bill would sky rocket. And look ridiculous.

I would have been alight with a few scots in there. It would have given me a a stronger attachment to the marines as opposed to "cannon fodder". something like "Yay! The scottish marine! Lets try and not let him die!" but that's just how I'd go about it.

Master Chief does speak, in fact, quite a bit. No it's not a voice filter, Master chief is a male. And what's wrong with wanting to know some backstory for the spartans? It gives the characters more depth and put a bit more care into those wire frames people work so hard to create.

For the record, Master Chief's name is John. Look it up. Master chief is a rank. Master Chief Petty Officer. Saying that he's an avatar isn't true at all. He's a character.

Multiplayer is completely different, but that's a monkeyhouse of teabagging 12 year olds

For the record, I'm not saying that Halo isn't diverse (Halo Legends saw to putting that to rest)

but video games in general could stand to be more diverse, and this video reminded me of that. I think a Gay spartan would be interesting. He didn't have to have sexual urges for the Chief (you wanna talk about painting stereotypes) but even having him over the com with that voice might have provided for some comedic relief, a character development or something else interesting.