The Big Picture: Combat Evolved?

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Schmittler

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Aug 4, 2010
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Glad we finally have a quality tuesday show.

On the topic of discussion, I think that's looking way too into it. The races are diverse because it makes it more interesting than fighting the same species of alien the whole time. Look at Gears of War for example, I don't know about you guys but I got tired of seeing the locust in the first one. If they could show humans in a more diverse way, I'm sure they would. I think we see them as the enemy simply because they are the enemy that is trying to kill us and we are being told that's why.

Interesting topic either way.
 

The Austin

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Great, Movie Bob turned into Glenn Beck.

The reason we don't notice these subtexts is because THEY DON'T EXIST.
You're reading too much into things, kind of like how people claim that Left for Dead and Call of Juarez are racist.

Still, I have high hopes for this series's future, and I hope we can move past the whole "Halo is fascist" thing.
 

darthzew

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While I enjoy Moviebob's reviews, I thought this was dumb. It felt like a poorly wound-together grab for attention. And while I respect the need for diversity as much as the next guy... really? Halo just seemed like a dumb target.

And, I just want to point this out, as far as the Marines go in Halo, they're as diverse as they come. You see men, women, and people of all races. I frankly don't understand the point to this.
 

Uber Waddles

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Halo is pretty much a modern day re-imagining of the Spartans Vs. Persians. Few vs Many, victory for the strong willed against the too-big-to-handle empire. Granted, liberties were taken. I dont think a segment of Persia joined the Spartans. Or had Plasma Swords. But thats the way I have interpretted this series.

As for The Big Picture of it all, I think that was used as basis for these games. They had a shooter, broad topic to choose from, and easy to tailor to future settings. Now when I say base, I mean it just as that. Its a skeleton. Spartans didnt face zombies or rings that kill everything but are wanted for a religious experience. As for an underlying message that mixed races = bad, its not entirely. The point of the Covenant, as you said, was to be an oppressed group of aliens, fighting for territorial gain. The purpose of having different aliens was to mix up the genre: instead of just shooting Nazis (as was popular at the time), you shoot enemies with varying powers (small and easy to kill, travel in packs. Big guys, bigger guys, wimps with shields, etc.)

If anything, bungie mocks religious zealots. Their religious beliefs lead to their downfall. As for the eyes turning blue, they NEEDED to show some transition. And eyes are the easiest way. Good show tho Bob.
 

Fygar

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Nov 15, 2009
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I felt that Bob's attempt at creating controversy fell flat. Sorry, I ain't buying this.
 

Scrythe

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Jun 23, 2009
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Between this show and Extra Credits, The Escapist is now officially jamming double fistfulls of awesome directly through my skull.

Thank you, Escapist.
 

Dukeoftacos

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I enjoyed your first episode, but for those of us who have been following you as the gameoverthinker this is all just more of the same. I'm really looking forward to seeing what other topics you are going to tackle with this new platform.
 

JackRyan64

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Great! I now have something to look forward to on the Escapist every weekday!

Monday: Unskippable
Tuesday: The Big Picture
Wednesday: Zero Punctuation
Thursday: Extra Credits
Friday: Escape to the Movies
 

kikon9

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Well ,yes, the SPARTANS are militaristic and faceless, but you forget that it's Humans the covenant are fighting so they have marines, ODST, militia, and rebels all fighting against the covenant. The covenant are also not a slave army (Only the engineers are), but religious fundamentalists that got a LOT of converts, and because humans refused to join the covenant, the covenant decided to kill them because they didn't want to believe the same things. Also, whenever a species of covenant detaches from the whole, they side with the humans. The elites ally themselves with them, and the engineers would if they were not slaves. Not to mention that for a game with "master race" undertones, it has a diverse number of allies. You run into marines and ODST of every race and gender and it never points it out to the viewer.
 

bad rider

The prodigal son of a goat boy
Dec 23, 2007
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I got bored of bobs escape to the movies, tried this and moviebob is making an argument that halo is promoting Nazism. Rightyoh, I'll just walk back the way I came.
 

Airsoftslayer93

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Mar 17, 2010
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Not sure i really agree with you bob, its a fully multicultural human team, most of the games are set in a version of africa that is actually the most advanced nation on earth, if you look at a purely human ascpect then its one of the most representative games out, and it doesnt really play on stereotypes for that.

and tbh looking from a game design viewpoint, having different alien races as your enemy makes sense just because it would be boring fighting the same type constantly.

the advert with the blue eyes wasnt made by bungie so it would be a bit harsh to 'blame' them for that

the whole spartan movement is shown to be a necersary evil for the survival of the human race, but an evil nonetheless, you bring up some interesting points but its a bit of a lazy arguement to bring up in your first video. 'its the NAZI'SSSSSSS' i excpected better from you bob, im actually disappointed
 

josemlopes

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Ultratwinkie said:
josemlopes said:
Ultratwinkie said:
Zakarath said:
Ampersand said:
I know it's kind of your job to over think things but would you not think that maybe the reason that the enemies in halo are alot more diverse then the player characters is because......they're the ones we're looking at all the time. It's a first person game remeber?

Also there are no good guys in halo. The spartans kill just as many humans as they do covenant, and in all of the stories surrounding the series, just as much sympathy is conveyed for the races of the covenant as for the humans, including halo 2 where you actually play as an elite.
In fact the only thing that comes close to a villain in the entire series is the flood......you know the homogenous consumption driven mass, the only aim of which is to propagate itself by means of wiping all individualism from the face the universe.
Exactly. He is reading waaay to much into this, and he's coming at it from the wrong angle. By the end of Halo 3 you're practically working with the Covenant against the Flood, whose STATED GOAL in the ark terminals is the utter homogenizing of the entire galaxy/universe.
Oh, and also: We were fighting the Covenant because their "arcane belief system" led them to try and wipe us out. I guess because they looked more diverse we should have just let them kill all the humans, right? Oh, and they were going to extinguish all life from the galaxy because their crazy prophets wanted to become gods. THAT is why we were fighting them, not because they were "the other". And honestly, DIVERSITY IN YOUR ENEMIES IS NECESSARY FOR INTERESTING GAMEPLAY. Oh, and one last point: you might want to note that for Halo 3, your team is comprised primarily of an alien, a black guy, a robot, and the love interest is an AI. If that isn't a diverse cast, I don't know what is.
but does that mean your ALLIES have to look the same? hell no.
Go to the army and tell me if they look like a rainbow
They do. You don't realize that there are MORE than just a shotgun guy and rifle guy. who heals the injured? who coordinates artillery shelling? who refuels the helicopters? who repairs the tanks? who drives the supply trucks to forward outposts? who BUILDS the forward outposts?

An army is more diverse than you think.
That has nothing to do with their uniform, they all have something to distiguish but it isnt all that much, you wont see the color scheme changing drasticly from one ocupation to another.

Also, the aliens diverse in species, we are only one specie, and Halo Reach in particular even has multiple races so they did made variety on the allies, they have multiple colors and diferent body structure. There is a russian (I think) chick, a black guy, a eastern huge dude, the tipical white guy and our character, all with their own colour and body sizes.
 

Ometochtli

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Sep 10, 2008
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He's over-thinking it. The covenant were made racially diverse so you could fight a lot of completely different looking aliens, that's it. It is not a commentary on multiculturalism. Having a diverse assortment of aliens to fight is way more fun then if they just made all the enemies in the game elites.
 

bad rider

The prodigal son of a goat boy
Dec 23, 2007
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The Austin said:
Great, Movie Bob turned into Glenn Beck.

The reason we don't notice these subtexts is because THEY DON'T EXIST.
You're reading too much into things, kind of like how people claim that Left for Dead and Call of Juarez are racist.

Still, I have high hopes for this series's future, and I hope we can move past the whole "Halo is fascist" thing.
Maybe your not reading into things enough!

Katamari Damacy is actually promoting the same idea, that only by absorbing all things into a whole and disrupting the landscape around us can we appease the king of the universe. Also Teenage mutant ninja turtles. Actually about how mutant turtles will rise up to destroy humanity.
 

Daveman

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Jan 8, 2009
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Bob, what can I say? I mean you pick up on multiculturalism and ignore the whole "religious zealotry vs USA (effectively)" subtext? That's just silly.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Let's be honest here, I think both MovieBob and Yahtzee miss the entire point of military disapline and uniformity. You can't conduct a war if you have everyone out there running around, doing their own thing. You need to control information, and get people to the point where they do what they are told. This incidently includes being sacrificed for the greater good. Sending one group of guys into a meat grinder so your other team of guys can complete an important objective in the big picture while the enemy is busy for example (and if this example offends you, remember that wars are ugly and blow chips for a reason).

The thing to understand is that we're dealing with a military organization in these games. Even as a Halo fan I understand this, and why it's all uniform. These guys aren't a representitive of humanity as a whole, but of our military, our champions, our defenders. Us, the game players, are not supposed to need a lesson in the diversity of humanity, because we are humans. We generally don't see the civilian culture that the military is defending.

The diverse alien races being fought are uniform among themselves, each species pretty much acts the same way the spartans do with standard weapons, equipment, and an order of battle. The point being that if The Covenant was to conquer humanity it would still have it's own order of battle and so on, but would effectively be subverted to the whole like those guys were. It's also important to note that The Covenant eventually does not want humanity to join or be subverted... it wants to wipe us out entirely as a threat. I mean think about what the Titular "Halo" weapon is, and what it shows up to do.

As far as Nazi referances went, well understand that the Nazis are generally stereotyped by their military. Their military not being all that differant from any other effective fighting force. For reasons related to our current, unworkable, morality, you rarely see much about the civilian Nazi culture, groups like the Volkssturm, or the slaughters that were inflicted upon them to win World War II. Being disaplined, focused, and kept a bit ignorant is simply military, it has nothing specifically to do with the Nazis.

The bit with the blue eyes, well, understand that this DOES have something to do with the Nazis. According to some things I've read, the very first Halo books got into the backround behind the Spartan program, and how it was based on a Eugenics/Genetics program that the Nazis started in World War II to create their "ubermensch" as super soldiers. Before the arrival of the covenant there was supposed to have been a lot of fighting between human factions, and the Spartan super soldiers were created to try and resolve those wars, using technology that started with the Nazis and had apparently been being worked on sense (presumably starting with Nazi scientists who wound up with the Allies after the war via things like "Operation Paperclip"). Apparently this was contreversial enough where it was supposed to have been changed (or glossed over to avoid directly mentioning the Nazis) in later printings of the novels. In the end though the bottom line is that the guy's eyes turning blue are probably supposed to give you exactly the message it did, being a sign of the origins of the technology being used.

-

One final note for anyone that has read this far (which I hope includes Moviebob):

I have read "Starship Troopers" not just seen the movie. The scenario is a lot differant than the one presented in the movies, and if you read it, the aliens they are fighting aren't quite like they are in the movies, and apparently have proxy races themselves.

It should also be noted that while the book focuses on the military mentality, why it exists, and the proper ways of fighting a war (and could be considered very anti-liberal for this reason... it's very much based on reality, rather than moral principle), the weapons being used are not anything like either the movie, or what you see in video games. These guys basically use battlesuits that can jump like The Hulk and fight with flame throwers that literally shoot streams of fire miles long. To put things into perspective a couple of these guys would render pretty much anything you've seen in "Space Marine" games, or even settings like "Warhammer 40k" irrelevent. One of these guys sweeps his flames back and forth and he's pretty much going to wipe out city blocks. The fire is so hot that it't not even going to leave flaming wreckage since when the flame passes it's so hot that it consumes everything, there is nothing left to burn.

To be entirely honest, it's been a long time, but I kind of wish people would stop making referances to "Starship Troopers" whenever some work of military science fiction comes up. The entire style is pretty unique, and nothing close to that take on warfare, the nature of the engagements, and similar thing has ever really been done.
 

The Austin

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Jul 20, 2009
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bad rider said:
The Austin said:
Great, Movie Bob turned into Glenn Beck.

The reason we don't notice these subtexts is because THEY DON'T EXIST.
You're reading too much into things, kind of like how people claim that Left for Dead and Call of Juarez are racist.

Still, I have high hopes for this series's future, and I hope we can move past the whole "Halo is fascist" thing.
Maybe your not reading into things enough!

Katamari Damacy is actually promoting the same idea, that only by absorbing all things into a whole and disrupting the landscape around us can we appease the king of the universe. Also Teenage mutant ninja turtles. Actually about how mutant turtles will rise up to destroy humanity.
When I first read your comment, I thought you were being serious. Then I laughed my ass off. Thank you. :D
 

Mr. Chops

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Jan 25, 2010
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By that logic you yourself are promoting the exact same thing as bungie by using only white male profiles to depict your emotions.
 

Furioso

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Jun 16, 2009
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SomeBritishDude said:
I love reading too much into things.

Also...Movie Bob is the one to get a second show? No offence ment but...Movie Bob?! Da fuck?

Can't wait for that Hit with an Axe spin off...
No Bob gets a lot more credit and praise then you seem to think, but opinions are opinions, I personally am looking forward to more nerdy rants!