Thank you again. People banging on about "political correctness ruining everything" tend to piss me the hell off.
The Big Picture: Correctitude
- Thread starter MovieBob
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Silence! I keel you!
^- that sounds funny to me.
You got a point, though. I tend to only be a jerk when people just don't get it, and after long posts trying to explain my points in understandable English that a 4th grader can understand, I will probably call them a fucking retarded bigot.
At which point all my credibility is lost, because where I usually go to do my debates, it's usually about sensitive issues like the mosque, and I'm outnumbered 5 to 2.
That's where it's okay to be politically incorrect, because when they insult my people (the redneck heeiks), I get to insult their people (oversensitive, undereducated pansies who fail to see the whole picture).
Oh and for the record, I've had the mosque debate with an actual intelligent person who brought up more points than "the only people who oppose it are close minded rednecks" before, and said things other than "go stick to your guns," and do you know what? We didn't have any issues about political correctness. The only time the word bigot was thrown around was when we were talking about the debate before.
^- that sounds funny to me.
You got a point, though. I tend to only be a jerk when people just don't get it, and after long posts trying to explain my points in understandable English that a 4th grader can understand, I will probably call them a fucking retarded bigot.
At which point all my credibility is lost, because where I usually go to do my debates, it's usually about sensitive issues like the mosque, and I'm outnumbered 5 to 2.
That's where it's okay to be politically incorrect, because when they insult my people (the redneck heeiks), I get to insult their people (oversensitive, undereducated pansies who fail to see the whole picture).
Oh and for the record, I've had the mosque debate with an actual intelligent person who brought up more points than "the only people who oppose it are close minded rednecks" before, and said things other than "go stick to your guns," and do you know what? We didn't have any issues about political correctness. The only time the word bigot was thrown around was when we were talking about the debate before.
You can say I'm dumb (and I probably am) but this went over my head and I got lost about a minute in.
So instead, I'll comment on the one thing that didnt scramble my brain. Where is the shield that guy who fights the care bears was holding from? I know I've seen it before.
So instead, I'll comment on the one thing that didnt scramble my brain. Where is the shield that guy who fights the care bears was holding from? I know I've seen it before.
I love when people tell me they dislike obama because hes black.
I'm like, "do you even know what hes done so far as president? what laws and bills and stuff hes passed?"
They go "no"
Its complete idiocy.
I'm like, "do you even know what hes done so far as president? what laws and bills and stuff hes passed?"
They go "no"
Its complete idiocy.
I'd say because changing Huck Finn would be altering the author's original intent (satire of prevailing attitudes), whereas the changes to Thor's secondary characters are not.Dastardly said:
As an example, Thor's manner of speaking "ye olde english" was written to typecast him with a distinctive "style". That much isn't being altered in the movie (afaik). The skin colour of a minor god is being changed. It would be difficult to argue that this changes the behavior, mannerisms, or character of Haemdall.
Huck Finn's manner of speaking was written to parody period attitudes towards blacks. Changing the language uses completely changes the character's attitudes and world-view.
Put it in another context. Compare making the skin colour of a minor character a different colour, to changing him to be an arabian princess. One is a change of look that doesn't really impact the character at all. The other is a fundamental shift in behavior and mannerisms.
The more I learn about Bob the more I hate him. He paints this topic so broadly, essentially calling out anyone that has made any "hurtful" comment ever. Apparently if you've ever made a non-pc statement ever you are a dick. Sorry. There's a lot more ambiguity to this issue. Sure, some people are dicks, and they have a right to be. But sometimes it's the dicks that are right, and should be listened to, and their dickiness is what makes them so effective.
I guess I'll keep watching, only to better understand the opposition.
I guess I'll keep watching, only to better understand the opposition.
Haha, I agree mostly. There are cases where the political correctness argument is very valid. I wouldn't go as far as saying PC doesn't exist and your just a loudmouth as being a completely valid arguments. I like how you touched on the Black Heimdall thing. I am a comic book purist, and I would have liked nothing more than a completely faithful translation. I have known for a long time now that things like this will never happen. But, people should be able to disagree with a movie casting, period. I don't care for how all arguments against it are made invalid because of the color of his skin. I am fine with him being in the movie, it's not like it's a major part really. I hate the accusation of racism as a counter to the political correctness argument even more than the the political correctness argument. This has given me much to think about.
I think we all know the difference between political correctness and people just being asses though.
The story loses impact with the changes. The most important part of the story is the impact, and the harsh reality of the time it painted. Erasing the word doesn't change the fact that it existed, it still exists, and trivializing the moments where the harsh language is purposefully put in so the reader knows the gravity of the situation and the gravity of the time detracts from the story.
It's not just a small deal, it's nearly completely trivial. This changed edition exists along side the edition with the original text. People have a choice to read the one they want. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together most likely would come to the conclusion that the original one is the best one to read. The ONLY problem I see with black Heimdall is that the movies always seem to have a way of overflowing into the comics. Most comic people are sticklers for continuity, and such a thing completely breaks it. So, to an extent, the fans have a reason to complain if this is going to be the case.
I think we all know the difference between political correctness and people just being asses though.
Haha, no worries, Carlos Mencia is HILARIOUS!!!Fr said:
The thing about the Huck Finn change, it's not the first time it has been done. It won't be the last one either. Another aspect of this was that Mark Twain himself despised anyone who tried to change his original prose. It's like a big fuck off to him.jabrwock said:
The story loses impact with the changes. The most important part of the story is the impact, and the harsh reality of the time it painted. Erasing the word doesn't change the fact that it existed, it still exists, and trivializing the moments where the harsh language is purposefully put in so the reader knows the gravity of the situation and the gravity of the time detracts from the story.
It's not just a small deal, it's nearly completely trivial. This changed edition exists along side the edition with the original text. People have a choice to read the one they want. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together most likely would come to the conclusion that the original one is the best one to read. The ONLY problem I see with black Heimdall is that the movies always seem to have a way of overflowing into the comics. Most comic people are sticklers for continuity, and such a thing completely breaks it. So, to an extent, the fans have a reason to complain if this is going to be the case.
I have to totally agree with Sargon here, because when it comes to this side of the topic of PC then I'm completely unaware of what is the "correct" thing to say as opposed to what isn't.Sargon of Akkad said:
Is saying stereotypical comments like "All Asians are good at math" really offensive, especially when (personally) in my school the top 5 students at math are Asians? I personally count that as a generalizing observation, because sure, I know that ALL Asian people aren't good at math, but being good at math isn't a bad thing!
Same goes with the Kenyan sprinter idea: Say if someone sees someone running really fast and say some passing comment like "There must be a bit of Kenyan in her/him", is that particularly offensive? Or is that person using positive (because, as I said, things like running fast are good traits) stereotypes to help add positive connatations to a situation.
And, just as a after-thought, saying something like "That person is running faster then a black man to KFC" Yes, I know THAT is racist, so I'm not saying something like that.
To sum it up in a line: Are observational racial stereotypes, if with positive connatations still offensive?
(I'm sure there are better examples then the one's I've given, but hopefully you get the idea.)
This needed to be said so much. I am tempted to so this video to my class. People need to rember saying hatefull, homophobic, racist, sexist, ablist ect. just shows you are just steeped in your own privledge not chalnging elitism.
Ah... People. Man. Men.
Are we not all men?
Yeah, funny thing is, historically Man was a gender-neutral term, (men and women being wepn and wyf. No, seriously.)
So, PC or not, the history of this is that in modern times we consider it sexist to talk about 'men', when historically, that word was co-opted to specifically refer to male humans exclusively around the same time that Europe started treating women as lesser inferior beings.
So yeah. History sucks, and the historical significance of words can be quite odd.
(incedentally, if 'man' didn't mean 'male', you may be wondering where it came from as a word - It actually shares a common origin with 'mind'. Notice human. Meaning, presumably, something like the species of the mind.)
Are we not all men?
Yeah, funny thing is, historically Man was a gender-neutral term, (men and women being wepn and wyf. No, seriously.)
So, PC or not, the history of this is that in modern times we consider it sexist to talk about 'men', when historically, that word was co-opted to specifically refer to male humans exclusively around the same time that Europe started treating women as lesser inferior beings.
So yeah. History sucks, and the historical significance of words can be quite odd.
(incedentally, if 'man' didn't mean 'male', you may be wondering where it came from as a word - It actually shares a common origin with 'mind'. Notice human. Meaning, presumably, something like the species of the mind.)
Seemed a bit overly aggressive to me but eh. Besides there is a difference between not sugar coating things by being blunt and just trying to be a jerk outright.
Jeff Dunham really isn't that funny but I don't really view him as trying to be politically incorrect. And I think it's in poor taste that you brought up Carlos Mencia.. We all know of his long term struggle with syphilis and how it's degraded his mental faculties.
Shame on you Bob, shame.
Jeff Dunham really isn't that funny but I don't really view him as trying to be politically incorrect. And I think it's in poor taste that you brought up Carlos Mencia.. We all know of his long term struggle with syphilis and how it's degraded his mental faculties.
Shame on you Bob, shame.
Can't disagree with any of you points here bob. Good job, i to have never understood people getting riled up about PC. What so wrong with being nice? But on the other hand you would have to be a morron to not get that somthing like Blazing Saddles is a joke.
So yeah, best Big Picture yet
So yeah, best Big Picture yet
I'd say the best way to sum up political correctness in my view is it's a sometimes clumsy manner to try to encourage equality. I'm one of those people who is a strong, and a somewhat fanatical, believer in intent and context. A lot of people, from time to time, make statements that could be seen as racist, sexist or homophobic. Hell, I do so myself. However, because I've made a few jokes about the holocaust or about AIDS doesn't mean I'm anti-Semitism or homophobic. My sometimes offensive sense of humour does not show my views on equality, contrary to some popular belief.
What I'm not saying is all jokes are free from moral judging. The type of laughter at "god damn you're right, that social group is incompetent" or something along those line is something I dub as "gritting teeth laughter". The type of thing some people laugh at out of hatred of that group. An example of what I mean is George Carlin and Roy "Chubby" Brown. George Carlin goes on wild rants about how there is no God a lot, and how religion is false, however this does not mean he dislikes believers. Roy "Chubby" Brown, you can pretty much guarantee that 90% of people in the venue hates foreigners, the 10% are made up of people dragged along, people who don't listen to many comedians and the staff at the venue.
Personally, I believe people should assess the likelihood that the joke was "gritting teeth laughter" before judging. If it was just some stupid "get in the kitchen" joke, then it's meant to be harmless. If it's someone saying something along the lines of "sexual harassment doesn't exist" or something like Jeff Dunham (which involves getting the irrational fear society has of Muslims and uses that to make offensive jokes about the Islam religion), then feel free to rip into them.
Oh, and I'd recommend people to check out Stewart Lee's political correctness stand up. In case people are concerned he's just going to say "political correctness is shit", it's more him ripping into people saying "it's political correctness gone mad".
What I'm not saying is all jokes are free from moral judging. The type of laughter at "god damn you're right, that social group is incompetent" or something along those line is something I dub as "gritting teeth laughter". The type of thing some people laugh at out of hatred of that group. An example of what I mean is George Carlin and Roy "Chubby" Brown. George Carlin goes on wild rants about how there is no God a lot, and how religion is false, however this does not mean he dislikes believers. Roy "Chubby" Brown, you can pretty much guarantee that 90% of people in the venue hates foreigners, the 10% are made up of people dragged along, people who don't listen to many comedians and the staff at the venue.
Personally, I believe people should assess the likelihood that the joke was "gritting teeth laughter" before judging. If it was just some stupid "get in the kitchen" joke, then it's meant to be harmless. If it's someone saying something along the lines of "sexual harassment doesn't exist" or something like Jeff Dunham (which involves getting the irrational fear society has of Muslims and uses that to make offensive jokes about the Islam religion), then feel free to rip into them.
Oh, and I'd recommend people to check out Stewart Lee's political correctness stand up. In case people are concerned he's just going to say "political correctness is shit", it's more him ripping into people saying "it's political correctness gone mad".
