The Big Picture: Correctitude

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elvor0

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Sep 8, 2008
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I was about to disagree with you, but you explained your point rather nicely at the end there.

Yes I agree there is a difference between just being a plain arse and being politically incorrect, one is done out of pure igrorance and is actually hate directed, the latter is done to either make a point about society or for comic appeal, where the society point should be poinient and the joke should be just funny so people can laugh and it's obvious you don't actually mean offence.

The thing I am going to have to make a point about is when someone is just says a joke which isn't really directed at the group the people take offense to. People who say people are being PC is when a group has found offense in something that wasn't really offensive.

In the RE5 case or in the l4d2 case (shooting black people was being racist, was the point and thus all black zombies should be taken out). Capcom and valve obviously wern't or even trying to be offensive, they were set in Africa and New Orleans (where there is a sizable population of black people), and thus it stands to reason people there would be black. Extremist anti racism groups stated that this was being offensive and racist to black people, and attempted to censor it for being politically incorrect, when in fact it wasn't, as I'm sure all of us have the sense to work out.

The people who get annoyed at Political correctness usually have a point, and it's when something that shouldn't be censored is censored, such as when the people in charge decide that something is offensive when no one is actually offended by it, or if they are they need to grow up and realise that having black zombies isn't offensive to anyone. Nothing HAPPENS when you're offended, it's not a case of "there was a black zombie, I shot it and when I woke up..I had lepracy!" (bonus points if you get where that came from :p). It also comes from shoehorning things into it just to be politically correct for the sake of it.

I still don't like the idea of a norse god being black, not because I don't like black people but because he wasnt black in the comics or ANY of the norse mythology, which even though they are both fiction, still have their lore specifically outlined.

If we took an black god, and made him white because we feel like it, there would be a FUCKING MASSIVE outcry of racism, yet when we make white characters black, it's okay because we're being politically correct or diverse. I would be just as annoyed if they had Blade played by a white guy, as I am the norse god being played by a black guy. Blade is black and awesome, Norse gods are white and have fucking massive beards and come from a land of WHITE people. Their gods are going to be white, as outlined by years of mythology and dogma.

If we made a movie using christian mythology and changed the nationality and race of characters, there would be an uproar about it from the Christians, because even if I don't believe in it, the source material outlines how these characters should be.

Its the double standards that make people annoyed, if a joke is aimed at the majority it's okay, but if it's a minority (be it gays, muslims, blacks, or anything in between), someone, somewhere MIGHT take offense to it and it's rendered politically incorrect and censorable. Not everyone is a racist hate mongerer, most people just want to make people laugh, or make a game with black people in it because it's set in africa. Don't make everyone else suffer because a few select people hate everyone else, make them suffer.

Making a law about offending people is totally bollocks anyway, what offends me might not offend you, it all comes to gether about how you're raised, how tolerant you are, your culture and beliefs and anything else that makes you, YOU. The people who get riled up and make a big issue out of anything they can get their hands on don't deserve anyones attention, because THEY are the people who want everyone to hate each other, by making it appear wrong to say X.

If I say "don't do that I might catch the gay" I will blatently say it in a light hearted way because everyone knows you can't catch the gay, and I have nothing against gay people at all. Yet some bigwig would class that politically incorrect and attempt to censor me, because one gay person MIGHT be offended by me saying that, which means that if a gay person does get offended by me, it would mean they're not secure in their self and they're the ones that needs to sort it out, not me with my light hearted joke.

If someone makes a joke about Geeks, I will laugh, because I don't care, I'm comfortable with the way I am, and everybody else should be comfortable with who they are. Nobody likes anyone that is genuinely racist, sexist or homophobic, because they're utter cunts, which should make you feel even more secure about who you are, because prejudice people are generally booted out of social circles because more often than not people will just see them as cunts.

TL DR:

It's okay to shoot a white zombie, but shoot a black zombie and you will have hell to pay for being a KKK/Hitler spawn of satan.

Yahtzee got it right:

"A society where anyone can make jokes about anyone else and everyone laughs is a truly tolerant society. Political correctness-charged censorship only serves to engender resentment and distance between social groups. "
 

Mae Aloril

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Oct 7, 2009
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Ok, so I'm just gonna put this here. I'm not really reading the thread so I apologize if it's been said already. I knew from the first few seconds of this review that Thor was gonna be brought up, and this is what I have to say about it. I'm all about stirring up some freshness in a piece of fiction with some cultural changes. I love it when they do it in things like Shakespeare and what not. The only contention I hold with making a person from the Viking Pantheon black is that this isn't just fiction, it's a mythology. It's a religion of the ancient Northern European people. There were very few, if any, dark skinned inhabitants of this area, so how would one end up in their pantheon. If we made a story about other cultures, like a Japanese Shinto folk lore or an African tribal story and just threw in random other races, don't you think that would piss a whole bunch of people off? When done like this, it seems like an attempt just to appease, not for some "freshness".
 

Mae Aloril

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Oct 7, 2009
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"Not all view points must be treated equally".-Jon Stewart Bob disliking traditional values doesn't make him a bigot, it makes him a logical being who uses his brain for making rational decisions instead of, say, crushing beer cans.
 

psijac

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Nov 20, 2008
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF1NUposXVQ

I completely disagree with you on this one Bob. what you are asking for is tantamount to censorship. Who gets to decide what is within reasonable limits of politeness? You? Our mother? Muslims?
 

Guitarmasterx7

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Mar 16, 2009
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There are two things I don't like about political correctness

First of all, it frequently goes way too fucking far to demonize something for no reason. Why is it now that it's politically incorrect to refer to a black person as black? "African American" doesn't always fit because black people aren't always from Africa or American. "Minorities" I find to sound extremely condescending and personally if I were black I would find it way more offensive than "black." What was wrong with black? Pretty much the only thing that sets them apart from white people is the color of their skin, so when referring to the difference in skin tone wouldn't it make sense to use a color? Everyone was fine with it until it just randomly got deemed as politically incorrect one day and suddenly for some reason it's tabuu to say it.

The second thing I don't like is that it doesn't really encourage acceptance so much as it does pussification. If someone makes a joke about ethnicity (which often don't support actual racist viewpoints since the root of comedy is absurdity) by political correctness standards we're supposed to do what? Get pretend offended on behalf of the people it mocks? How exactly does that help us progress as a society? It doesn't prevent any legitimate racism it just attempts to cover up lighthearted jokes. The reason that people are able to paint themselves as freedom fighters for free speech against political correctness so easily is because political correctness demonizes if not censors free speech, and when that's directed at anything that isn't legitimate hate speech it doesn't come across as justified.
 

Urameshi13

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Jan 18, 2011
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I think Mencia and Dunham are hilarious. Let's put aside the issue of where the former gets his material, but the theme of all his shows are don't try to offend people, but don't paralyze yourself in fear of it. Just live your life and treat people like you want to be treated.

Once again, you're kind of showing your left-leaning nature by making the point that all the trolls out there inhabit the right, trust me, there's a lot of balance in the world of trolldom.
 

Kumomaru

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May 21, 2008
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Father Time said:
Kumomaru said:
This is the first time i found myself being in enough disagreement with your opinion to be unable to pin it on one specific thing in the video.

However bone-headed an opinion might be, or how much you dislike it personally, it DOES have a right to exist and be out there.
He never called for censorship.
Not directly but he did say that the opinions are bigoted and have no place in modern society.
 

utility6

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Jul 17, 2010
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Bob, thank you for that. It needed to be said. Also thanks for mentioning Bill Hicks. He is one of the overlooked greats.
 

Sandytimeman

Brain Freeze...yay!
Jan 14, 2011
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I dunno acknowledging change towards 21 century attitudes isn't always good. I happen to dislike the relationship they built between Sam and Frodo in the LotR movies. I know its the age old cry of bitter grumpy trolls or w/e but seriously book did it better, even if it was insensitive.

Now on to the main issue. I always use as my Mantra that it's context that matters not the words themselves(thank you Carlin). You can say the n word, and save us both a lot of time, or you can be an ass hat and word it so it takes a lot longer to say something just as insulting.
 

gphjr14

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Aug 20, 2010
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psijac said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF1NUposXVQ

I completely disagree with you on this one Bob. what you are asking for is tantamount to censorship. Who gets to decide what is within reasonable limits of politeness? You? Our mother? Muslims?
He's not saying you can't say what you want, he's saying if you say something knowing its fucked up with the full intent to offend, and someone calls you out on it your retort shouldn't be "Oh get off your high horse and stop trying to be politically correct"

Its usually children (not saying you) that live in a world where their words don't hold weight. Its usually a stance that comes from people who don't have anyone to hold them accountable because nothing is expected of them yet/ at all. How you communicate and express your ideas has a profound effect on how far you go in life.

And Dunham never was funny, the fact he got a show only marks the further decline of Comedy Central and American television in general. The politically incorrect comedians you mentioned are funny them plus Dave Chappelle and Ralphie May.
 

Squeaky

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Mar 6, 2010
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I would agree with most of what you said but luckly i live in england and we insult any and everyone and hopefully they give as good as they take as i find making jokes like that ,aslong as you dont believe in what your saying can make for some funny conversations (with the ethnicty your making jokes at and aslong as they arnt the type to take it seriously).
 

Donbett1974

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Jan 28, 2009
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Father Time said:
Donbett1974 said:
I like how P.C. fighters where Democrats but the Republicans where jerks. Someones bias is showing.
Not really, saying that Republicans were against PC is just correct. Hell they also made up some PC boogeymen that still exists. Take the "War on Christmas"
Well take the Grey Anatomy actor calling co-star a ******. He should never been fired because he didn't say as a representative of the show when he said it. Or South Park Allah controversy. P.C. is real.
 

Throwitawaynow

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Aug 29, 2010
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Completely wrong, but w/e. The one god they chose for the Thor movie to be black was, "The White God." by description. PC has gone so far out of control that anytime a black and white person is shown together it's called racist. Look at the pepsi max commercial and the black congresswoman's speech. Here's a big picture, you don't see it Bob.
 

EscapingReality

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Dec 31, 2010
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Fr said:
anc[is]Carlos and Jeff are really funny :'(

please don't quote me just to tell me they're not, waste of everyones time
They really are... I like the Achmed skit, it works on the international cohorts that sit on the sidelines while the US dukes it out with half the planet.
 

Shjade

Chaos in Jeans
Feb 2, 2010
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HankMan said:
bringer of illumination said:
HankMan said:
Shjade said:
No, it isn't. Political correctness softens "offensive" terms into more palatable ones.

Would it have offended anyone anyone if Superman was played by a white male? Probably not. Therefore, casting Ving Rhames as Superman is not political correctness as it's not softening any potentially offensive item into something more socially acceptable. There was no offensive item in the first place.

It's something completely different.
Which is?...
Stupidity would be my guess.
Thank you!
Pretty much, yeah. Note that stupidity != political correctness, and vice versa. They CAN be the same thing (in that there have been instances of stupid application of political correctness), but they don't mean the same thing.

Race/class/politics/religion-related stupidity does not automatically relate to political correctness. It's often just something dumb that happens to involve the aforementioned topics, like obvious (from the point of view of audiences or fans, at least) poor casting choices.

Maybe another example will help, and hopefully I don't screw this up - hey, I'm not perfect: casting Samuel L. Jackson as Nick Fury (and for the sake of argument let's say Ultimate Nick Fury doesn't exist in this example) is just a casting choice, not political correctness. Censoring his dialogue including racial epithets for certain minorities and re-dubbing it in the TV release of the Avengers movie to use more neutral descriptive terms (or just writing the script to be "softer" in its forms of address and insults in the first place) is political correctness in action. Whether or not it's a good thing is subjective.
 

Zoroastres

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Sep 13, 2007
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Geh.

Now I really feel like watching "The Jerk."

Shame I don't have the time this week.

Damn you, Bob, damn you!
 

MightyBobzilla

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Jul 27, 2010
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nice to see you getting this "involved" with the show, i mean that completely sincerely as your obvious drive behind this particular episode made it much more enjoyable and informative to watch.
I would however like to make two..ammendments to the show. One a minor gripe, the other a little bit more meaningful.
1. the controvery surrounding RE5 didn't come out in one big go. first we found out that it was in Africa (now i should have seen it coming but..) at that time i was on the "why is this in itself a problem" side. Then we found out about the tribal zombies then the alternate costume and then, well, then we got the big picture that was the final release. egg was on my face for defending the game in the first place at this point.

2.Racial differentiation is obviously something to strive for in tv,movies, and games, when said racial apperances are applicable. For example please no one off asian characters in a show about life as an ancient viking. But the main problem i have with something trying to emulate "PC" is the well known phenomenom know as the token black guy. For those unaware, the token black guy is a terrible atempt, normally made in the final draft of something that shoves in a single character of racial diversity to try and not piss people off. It's these sorts of times when overaching rules of PC don't seem to work.
 

Escapefromwhatever

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Feb 21, 2009
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I have a friend who is not into gaming and who did not know the Escapist existed before today link to this on her Facebook because a friend told her about it. Bob is like Nintendo- he broadens the audience. =)