The Big Picture: Gender Games

[ProtoChimp]

Reminds me of one time when I overheard a conversation with these 2 guys *cough* 1 was an asshole *cough* talking about Reach and one of them said, not a joke by the way, "I hate how you can play a girl on Halo, it pisses me off" and the other for like 30 seconds was like "... um..." until he got called away. I know this might be on a different subject of this particular... um... subject (I ran out of words) but it just came to mind.

 

[I forgot]

This argument is weak. I could easily read the characters in the women he showed. Some of them, like the picture of Nariko wielding a sword with a serious expression and Cammy just sitting down, weren't even sexualized at all, with just the pictures Bob showed there actually was a level of diversity and some actually did portray the character (Morrigan and Mai). Those complaining about a sexy pose are being presumptive and ignoring everything else that can show character, like the facial expression.

So the problem really is that women (but I honestly feel like men make a bigger fuss over this than women) have a problem with the sex and sexuality of women. The other problem is blowing things way out of proportion; this should be a narrow topic with specific games in discussion, not a broad one pointing fingers and making assumptions at the whole damn industry in general.

 

[Gigano]

I'd think it perfectly reasonable and rational to cater to the demographic that put down the most cash for your products.

Don't want ladies posing for the camera in your games? Don't buy games with ladies posing for the camera then. And more importantly, buy lots of other games, so you become a demographic worth catering to.

The private market have absolutely no obligation whatsoever to cater to anyone but those who're willing to lay down the cash. So if you want influence on the content, vote with your wallet.

People who complain that "games" do not cater to them, while not spending a fraction of what the groups they do cater to do on them, are simply demanding special treatment.

 

[I forgot]

Sex sells

I'll use Ashley from Mass Effect. Deep she has beliefs and a history. Nothing really skimpy about any of her outfits.

And she was hated by at least to most vocal people. Being called a bigot because she didn't trust aliens even after the first contact war. The first time we made contact with alien a lot of people got killed and the fact it ruined her family name in the military.

There also the fact he has one part about believing in some kind of God. SHOVING RELIGOUN DOWN OUR THROAT.

Thane who his religion is a major part of his character is awesome it seems.
Go look up ME1 Ash vs ME3.

I'm trying to avoid info on ME3 as much as I can, but I didn't have a clue how much they changed Ashleys appearance for ME3... I have to say, you've opened my eyes a little and to be honest, the change is kind of fucked up. I didn't like Ashley because I didn't like her, but she was clearly a well written and portrayed character for me to have any emotions about her at all, and after a while she did grow on me... But the shift to space bimbo...

Dude, I've been a vocal defender of ME3 for MONTHS, but there is just no defending a move like that. Thank you for raising it.

Apparently a girl letting her hair down = space slut now.

Person you quoted is wrong as hell, most gamers don't hate strong women, most reclusive basement-dwelling shut-ins hate strong women. I found Ashley one of the more compelling characters from the original Mass Effect, as did a lot of people I know. She was interesting because she stood by her beliefs for the most part, while other characters like Liara and even Tali seemed to be so passive about everything.

OT: Us ranting and raving about how game design needs to grow up over hear will have little effect on the Japanese games that are to blame for most of these issues. Gaming in west has moved away from this in past 5 years or so. You hardly ever see RPG females in skimpy outfits or the busty risque posses in anything being produced over here.

Dude, knock it off with the bigotry. I suggest not making incredibly broad overgeneralizing statements stereotyping and being just plain insulting to a nationality, especially when closer observation can immediately show otherwise.

 

[Alphamarigi]

Why was the male symbol pointed down and the female symbol pointed up? WEIRD. Was it because it was sexist because then why not have them both pointed down to symbolize equal mortal flaw or something?

 

[HyenaThePirate]

Forty-two percent of all players are women and women over 18 years of age are one of the industry's fastest growing demographics.

Today, adult women represent a greater portion of the game-playing population (37 percent) than boys age 17 or younger (13 percent).

Source: http://www.theesa.com/facts/gameplayer.asp

Protip: Look up "video game demographic information" before you make claims about video game demographic information. Consider that this comes from the ESA, who have a vested interest in reporting accurate statistics on the matter.

Edit: full study (2011) available here: http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/ESA_EF_2011.pdf

Well there's some studies, but sadly I'm gonna have to put those squarely in the "numbers may not lie, but I don't believe it anyway." category. Where are all these girl gamers? 42% of game players are women? Are they talking GAMES games or are they talking FACEBOOK/ZYNGA games? Because my eyes don't deceive me. Go to any game store you'd like to name and hang around for a day and survey how many women come in to buy games (for themselves) and how many males do. I didn't bother looking up "video game demographic information" because casual observation, the basis of scientific inquiry, tells me a different story. A quick jaunt onto any multiplayer online game you'd like to name to survey how many male players you encounter vs female players also tells the story. There's a discrepancy somewhere, but I can't be arsed to figure out what it is because frankly I don't care enough to try to clarify what in their tests contributed to such a wild anomaly. 42% is damn near half the gaming population and you'd be hard pressed to find ANYONE who truly believes that half of the gamers in the consumer base meet that observation outside of Farmville gamers and bejeweled fanatics. In fact a number of the statistics on that site seem a bit off, but the one that caught my eye is that "Fifty-five percent of gamers play games on their phones or handheld device." While I'm inclined to believe that statistic is probably close to accurate given the popularity of smart phones and game apps for those phones such as Angry Birds, it also tells me that the data they've collected doesn't seem to delineate any particular portion of the industry. Casual games, flash games, phone games, and console/pc games are all very different things under the umbrella of "game." The lack of separation of these things in the statistical breakdown leads me to consider that the data is skewed. Which again is why the industry has to date continued down its path of "big tits, ultra-violence" sells. Gaming, like any industry, is about making MONEY and if console developers truly believed female gamers comprised 42% of their target audience, you better damn well believe they'd be doing everything in their power to capitalize on that. The only part of the industry that does is again, the zynga/facebook type games. So in THAT area of gaming we CAN see it's aiming at a female audience. But as for the big boys of the console and PC... They know which side of the bread their butter is on and they make no bones about it.

Sorry, but I'm not convinced. At all.

 

[HyenaThePirate]

I don't think about this very much because I by and large agree with the 'feminist' viewpoint, and I am personally offended that devs think I'll look into/buy/enjoy their game more because there is a girl with big boobs in them. But this is a very nice look into the underlying mechanisms of the thing.

I realize that every time an almost normal girl (or just competent in combat girl) shows up as an important character in a game, even if she's not drop dead-gorgeous, she has to have some feature that's über hot, usually a gigantic rack. Like Elizabeth in the upcoming Bioshock Infinite, or the bodyguard lady in Dead Island. I think this shows some people are trying to change this and some people are pushing not to.

I'll also add that Ivy is probably one of the girls who gets a pass on this stuff, since she also uses her sexuality as a weapon - which is why one of her alterative outfits is usually some sort of military uniform that shows nothing but her head, as if she was saying 'I can beat you by distracting you with my boobies, but I don't need to. It's just more fun this way.' The rest of the SC roster is guilty though.

Also when you showed Bowser's second pose I was sure you were going to say it communicates U GONNA GET RAPED.

lotsa stuff

No. There is a difference. Look at the roster of any random fighting game.

There will be a lot of fine looking man with muscular arms and big biceps and revealing clothing.

There will be a lot of fine looking women with big boobs and huge legs and revealing clothes.

There will be a bunch of weird looking man who are mutated or on fire or skeletons or maybe just fat, depending on the setting.

And there might be a robot.

See the problem?

Just about ALL characters wind up with some feature that would be considered attractive though, that includes the male ones. In general heroic games feature characters who represent a heroic ideal. In general you don't see a lot of normal looking guys involved in heroic fantasy of any time, and in games like fighting games where the fantasy revolves around world class fighters, your not going to generally see a bunch of normal looking people.

As I pointed out, the more varied look of male characters is because men are more physically variable at the high end, we can put on and develop muscle mass a lot more efficiently and in all kinds of shapes. Women tend not to have as many options, there is a limit to how far a girl can really "bulk up". This is why men max out much higher in terms of physical capabilities, and also why feminists complain about a lot of jobs having requirements that are very difficult, if not imposisble, for women to meet in certain jobs.

A dude can be a wiry whip of muscle, or some hulking mountain and be viable and show improvement from it. Beyond a certain point women are not going to be able to put on any bulk and muscle and have it actually be an advantage. Women who reach an idea "fighting weight" tend to come out looking a lot more similar than guys do, not identical, but within certain dimensions. This is why you don't have any lady pro-wrestlers built like "Hulk Hogan" or whatever, women just can't develop themselves that way. Even female body builders wind up
in a totally differant catagory from men, and are judged by differant merits.

This is to say nothing of the simple fact that women who do fantasy artwork wind up producing the same basic stuff... a physical ideal, as men do.

When it comes to what's attractive, I will also say that guys are generally putting their best features out first for the cheesecake factor. You look at something like the cover art for "Resident Evil 5" and the sheer size of the bicep Chris is flexing and it's pretty over the top, this being in exactly the same vein as those "magical wolfboys" people make fun of in Twilight.

See, the problem is that this issue exists in the mind of feminists (and for a lot of them probably only as a political point), and guys that think that by taking a position like this it will make them more likable to girls. Overall we just don't pay attention because society has not made "oh my gawd, look at the exploitation of men" a viable attention getting/political strategy.


Finally, for those that made it this far through my post, the mosrt important point:

If you stop and think about it there are just as many "exploitive" images of guys out there, it's just that are invisible on the political spectrum. These images ARE directed heavily at women, who are just as swayed physically as guys are whether they want to admit it or not. The career of guys like Fabio or Justin Beiber should make this pretty obvious for those who have been paying attention. If you bother to look at the statistics about gaming there are TONS of women gamers out there, and that's hardly something that has happened by accident. A lot of women might not admit that they bought a product because it's got a picture of some strapping male sex god plastered on it, no more than most guys will admit artwork with attractive women helps their tales, but it remains true.

One funny thing I've mentioned before is that for all the mockery of Duke Nukem and how offensive he is towards women, and so on and so forth, that character does seem to be pretty popular WITH women. I've run into TONS of girls who have played that game, even if many claim "well I just borrowed it" and seen far less of them go out of their way to knock it than guys. To be honest Duke is by all accounts the perfect man for your average girl, he's got the big muscles, the chipped good looks, and the macho attitude. While he's an egomaniac he stands up for his women. To your typical nerdboy who worships movies about how the intellectual, sensitive guy, gets the girl by demonstrating how much better he is for the girl in question than the macho jerks she usually dates, it's kind of crushing to see it come into gaming that this is the kind of guy girls REALLY tend to go for. I don't think that many nerds really get that their macho-empowerment fantasy space marine characters and such are the kinds of dudes that are the opposite of what the players are in real life, and arguably fit the mould of those skimpily dressed babes for the women. That dude showing off a huge bicep with muscle definition that would only pop out with at least a gallon of professionally applied body oil? Yeah... that's not really aimed at the dudes. Just like not all men like girls with massive boobs, not all girls like guys that are buffed out into uber-musclemen, but we have other examples as well. There are plenty of pretty-boys out there in gaming like say... Sepiroth... he's not just enduringly popular because he was an epic villain, but because he's sort of a sex symbol to women. Don't believe me? Login to Encyclopedia Dramatica and look up people like "Sepiroth's Slave" (if they still have the page) and so on for some pretty extreme examples, and then understand that this is simply the lunatic fringe of a kind of fanbase most guys have never noticed because they don't really notice the sex appeal of their own gender since it's not aimed at them.

Seriously, consider the above. There isn't an issue here. The issue only exists due to politics and people wanting to make one. Honestly I also suspect that a lot of the problem has to do with the whole "Scott Pilgrim" generation of male nerds being convinced that the gender dynamitcs there are anything other than an empowerment fantasy. They sit there and wonder "why aren't these gamer girls interested in me" and use the artwork and such as a scapegoat, when in really the simple truth is that when it comes to fun girls really don't
go for nerds which are called nerds for a reason. It can be shattering to realize it, and the very same empowerment fantasies present in games tend to cause a lot of guys not to notice that their video game protaganist is the guy who would be kicking sand in their face and walking off with the girl, and that guy is helping to bring the girls that are in the audience into gaming. Girls being just as shallow in their own way as guys are in theirs. A nice rack has sold tons of products to guys, just as Fabio's hair blowing in the wind has sold tankers full of substitute butter to housewives... and well, the amount of money made by Justin Beiber (away from the muscle-dude stereotype) from not only music but merch with his image on it, says a lot as well. Girls aren't flocking to The Beeb because of his musical talent, the posters being hawked at Wallmart with him standing there in a hoodie with hearts all around him (or something similar) kind of says it all.

LOL
You pretty much said it. 100%. I'm convinced that the only way to staunch this whole "girl gamers get no respect" argument will be when they start making boring, bookish librarian female characters surrounded by male characters that look like Jared Leto so that female gamers can have their egos assuaged.

Maybe what female gamers need to define is WHAT exactly do they want that will make money for the developers. Don't just say "A GOOD GAME with GOOD MECHANICS!!" Because half the games people hate on for being sexist towards women have GREAT gaming mechanics which is why they are popular to begin with. Not only that, but you have to convince male players to start enjoying playing female protagonists much more than they do, which can be difficult since most fantasies revolve around being a bad ass dude, not a bad ass dudette. Sure there are the Lara Crofts and Samus's out there, but strip them of their sex appeal, make them into regular plain jane women with pooches and shaped like a church bell, and those titles would be lining bargain bins and landfills all across the world.

Thing is, I'm not a female. I don't relate to females because I am not one. Therefore I'm less inclined to play games where I step into the role of being a female. I don't want to understand the complexities of dramatic situations as a woman. I want to be Captain McAsskickerton saving the galaxy from certain doom. Unless the game is Fear Effect... but of course, you can probably guess why.

 

[I forgot]

Dude, knock it off with the bigotry. I suggest not making incredibly broad overgeneralizing statements stereotyping and being just plain insulting to a nationality, especially when closer observation can immediately show otherwise.

Yes, I hate the Japanese, my name, Animehermit clearly indicates my hatred for all things Japan.

It's not insulting to anyone to imply that the Japanese developers make games for the Japanese.

How about you back up your statements? Games that sell the most in the west are not the ones with the skimpiest women in them, games like Call of Duty don't even have female characters. I don't recall the women in Gear of War as being over-sexualized either.

No, it is insulting to say Japanese are to blame for these "issues".

Likewise, why don't you back up your statements because the burden of proof is on you to show that your statement wasn't overgeneralizing and stereotyping based on nationality. And trying to prop up "the West" because Call of Duty doesn't have women works against you because it's trying to be realistic yet there's no female personnel. That's something that feminism should be asking for.

 

[SageRuffin]

Sex sells

I'll use Ashley from Mass Effect. Deep she has beliefs and a history. Nothing really skimpy about any of her outfits.

And she was hated by at least to most vocal people. Being called a bigot because she didn't trust aliens even after the first contact war. The first time we made contact with alien a lot of people got killed and the fact it ruined her family name in the military.

There also the fact he has one part about believing in some kind of God. SHOVING RELIGOUN DOWN OUR THROAT.

Thane who his religion is a major part of his character is awesome it seems.
Go look up ME1 Ash vs ME3.

Simple fact is most gamers are male and don't like strong females.
Might as well as every romance author to write a book that closer to what a real male is. Guess what no one would read it.
The fact is if you want a real life woman go outside if you want one who?s a perfect 10 and you would still have a chance with play a video game.

If I may, I love you so much for this it hurts. You barely come across this kind of logic and sensible thinking even on the BioWare forums themselves.

 

[ayvee]

Perception that demographic is 12 year old boys -> cater to perceived demographic -> perceived demographic is the one that consumes product -> repeat

I think we have a problem here.

As for the "They're BOTH objectified/sexualized/what-have-you" argument: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ls2wxy6fIB1qd9y98o1_500.jpg

 

[Teshi]

Well there's some studies, but sadly I'm gonna have to put those squarely in the "numbers may not lie, but I don't believe it anyway." category. Where are all these girl gamers? 42% of game players are women? Are they talking GAMES games or are they talking FACEBOOK/ZYNGA games? Because my eyes don't deceive me. Go to any game store you'd like to name and hang around for a day and survey how many women come in to buy games (for themselves) and how many males do. I didn't bother looking up "video game demographic information" because casual observation, the basis of scientific inquiry, tells me a different story. A quick jaunt onto any multiplayer online game you'd like to name to survey how many male players you encounter vs female players also tells the story.

As an adult woman, I very seldom shop in what I'd broadly classify as "nerd stores" despite the fact that I am a big nerd. It just feels awkward. I order stuff online or go to a big box store.

When I do play online it's under a not-obviously-female name, and I seldom use the mic except when playing with real-life friends.

I suspect I'm not particularly unusual in this.

 

[HyenaThePirate]

Well there's some studies, but sadly I'm gonna have to put those squarely in the "numbers may not lie, but I don't believe it anyway." category. Where are all these girl gamers? 42% of game players are women? Are they talking GAMES games or are they talking FACEBOOK/ZYNGA games? Because my eyes don't deceive me. Go to any game store you'd like to name and hang around for a day and survey how many women come in to buy games (for themselves) and how many males do. I didn't bother looking up "video game demographic information" because casual observation, the basis of scientific inquiry, tells me a different story. A quick jaunt onto any multiplayer online game you'd like to name to survey how many male players you encounter vs female players also tells the story.

As an adult woman, I very seldom shop in what I'd broadly classify as "nerd stores" despite the fact that I am a big nerd. It just feels awkward. I order stuff online or go to a big box store.

When I do play online it's under a not-obviously-female name, and I seldom use the mic except when playing with real-life friends.

I suspect I'm not particularly unusual in this.

Nor do I suspect that you and those like you represent nearly HALF of the console/pc or so called "hardcore" gaming demographic. Heck, that statement alone just goes to demonstrate the issue with the quality of the statistics; if a large portion of female gamers follow the same practice you do, how can they verify or quantify their results? How was the data even collected? By polls on websites? Or did they stand in a store and ask? They do little to justify or explain their results, just the statistic is tossed out.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not disparaging female gamers or belittling them or marginalizing them intentionally. It's just that in defense of the industry, I believe firmly that they are designing these products directly at a specific subset of society.

Heck, the problem with gamers of ethnicity is a bigger problem in my opinion in the industry. At least women are somewhat represented, even if it's not an entirely pleasing form of representation. Some could argue that concepts of beauty and aesthetics are an art form and since games have been trying to classify themselves as "art" forever now, that's a strong explanation for why those female characters tend to eschew sensible armor for leather and satin.
But how often are minorities depicted in games? Far, far less than women. And far less "pleasantly." When they do appear it is seldom as a main protagonist outside of RPG character creators, and usually it's as a supporting character that tends to be part stereotype, part comic relief. And yet, I'm willing to bet there are more gamers of color than there are gamers of female gender. Yet nobody seems to bring that up as much as the "girls aren't treated fairly in games" discussions.

I'm willing to bet however that it has the same source: demographics: who plays and who pays the most.

 

[ReiverCorrupter]

snip

I would agree with the "money is your vote." Often, this is why I don't buy triple-A titles. The indie and art game scene has none of this "feminist problem;" feminists are instead seen as assets, and feminist criticism is useful.

Women might not purchase as many copies of extreme tits volleyball, but the point is moot. We appear to have a lack of Trip-A titles marketed towards a good 42% (and growing) of the market share. That's not just misogynistic, that's bad business.

Publishers may be in it to make money, but I maintain a shred of hope that the Devs are aiming for something higher (maybe art, even?). So I implore them to grow up and make their products worth taking seriously.

EDIT: There remains the underlying problem of the lack of female game creators, which is far, far less than the number of female gamers. There isn't so much of a "male conspiracy" as there is a serious sausage fest in the dev departments.

Well, like I said, if it really is a marketing mistake then the system should correct for itself. Someone will come out with a game that appeals more to women and it will sell more than its competitors because more women will buy it. Problem solved. Eventually someone at EA or some other place is going to realize the size of the female market and take advantage of it. That's how capitalism works. I'm not a full libertarian or anything, in fact I'd like to see some things at least be partly socialized so that everyone can afford it (for instance very basic things like health care), but this is the kind of thing that capitalism is great at doing.

And no, most devs are likely in it to get paychecks so they can afford food. Sure, I think most of them probably enjoy their jobs, but they're still in it to make a living. 'Art' has become a meaningless and pretentious term. It used to simply be something that was created in order to be appreciated for its beauty. Now it seems that beauty isn't enough and art has to have some sort of insipid message so it can 'make people think'. What rubbish. The only valid way to argue for something is with cold and rational argumentation, everything else is either propaganda or sophistry. Games are a form of entertainment, they don't need to be anything else. They can create an emotional response in the player or they could just be mindless violence, it really just comes down to what the consumer wants out of their product.

 

[Oroboros]

It's embarrassing how many people are trying to excuse female objectification in video games by saying it happens to men as well by pointing to all of the beefy conan-space-marine types. people seem to be completely missing the point. Muscle bound men are seen as sexually attractive in popular culture, but this sort of body structure is also seen as 'Heroic'. The strong male character looks like someone who is capable of taking his knocks and giving a beating to the bad guys, whomever they may be. The common female character in video games or other media is considerably less muscular, instead of focusing on how strong and physically capable she is, games, movies, etc instead routinely focus on their sexuality. As pointed out in the video, they are frequently put into suggestive poses and either have a coquettish expression, if they have an expression at all.

snip

I would agree with the "money is your vote." Often, this is why I don't buy triple-A titles. The indie and art game scene has none of this "feminist problem;" feminists are instead seen as assets, and feminist criticism is useful.

Women might not purchase as many copies of extreme tits volleyball, but the point is moot. We appear to have a lack of Trip-A titles marketed towards a good 42% (and growing) of the market share. That's not just misogynistic, that's bad business.

Publishers may be in it to make money, but I maintain a shred of hope that the Devs are aiming for something higher (maybe art, even?). So I implore them to grow up and make their products worth taking seriously.

EDIT: There remains the underlying problem of the lack of female game creators, which is far, far less than the number of female gamers. There isn't so much of a "male conspiracy" as there is a serious sausage fest in the dev departments.

Well, like I said, if it really is a marketing mistake then the system should correct for itself. Someone will come out with a game that appeals more to women and it will sell more than its competitors because more women will buy it. Problem solved. Eventually someone at EA or some other place is going to realize the size of the female market and take advantage of it. That's how capitalism works. I'm not a full libertarian or anything, in fact I'd like to see some things at least be partly socialized so that everyone can afford it (for instance very basic things like health care), but this is the kind of thing that capitalism is great at doing.

And no, most devs are likely in it to get paychecks so they can afford food. Sure, I think most of them probably enjoy their jobs, but they're still in it to make a living. 'Art' has become a meaningless and pretentious term. It used to simply be something that was created in order to be appreciated for its beauty. Now it seems that beauty isn't enough and art has to have some sort of insipid message so it can 'make people think'. What rubbish. The only valid way to argue for something is with cold and rational argumentation, everything else is either propaganda or sophistry. Games are a form of entertainment, they don't need to be anything else. They can create an emotional response in the player or they could just be mindless violence, it really just comes down to what the consumer wants out of their product.

It's seriously distressing how you don't seem to understand that "the system should correct for itself." is false. The system has found something marketable- in this case the sexual objectification of women, and there is no reason to think that it will stop marketing this image as long as it makes money. This is not harmless, and this image is not marketed solely towards men, as some have attempted to argue. One need look no further then the multitude of women who subject themselves disorders to Bulimia or Anorexia in order to fit into the marketed 'ideal' of feminine beauty.

The Gilded Age if nothing else provides plenty of material on the ability of capitalism to damage society in the pursuit of capital. There is no proof that capitalism, left on its own, naturally trends towards the benign.

Art does not exist in a vacuum, it is influenced by culture and with the way sexuality is marketed in today's world,sexuality and sexism is very much a relevant topic in regards to art. As for games, regardless of whether you think of them as art or not, they are not created in a vacuum either-they are influenced by culture-they are in no way simply 'entertainment'.

 

[Tarkand]

as a female i totally agree with bob in his video. but the skimpy outfits start to wear a bit thin when thats the only option you have when it comes to character creation and equipment. id like to at least have the choice to wear armour that looks like it protects in rpg's..

LIke this?

Hate to break it to you buddy, but this armor design is extremely stupid. She's protected EVERYWHERE except the two most vital area (heart and face/head) - her neck isn't protected by anything but a red scarf either, which really doesn't do anything against swords, axes and the like.

Granted, she isn't overly sexy because her stance is pretty neutral, but this is exactly the kind of 'WTF?' armor design feminist rally against, as essentially it's more important for the character to show her beauty (through her face and boobs) then to not get killed.

 

[internetzealot1]

Double post, fuck me.

 

[internetzealot1]

Huh...its the poses...so simple no wonder I never really thought about it. And was that a knock against Other M, Bob?

Oh, and does anyone think its ironic that Gears of War is probably one of the better games in this area?

 

[SandroTheMaster]

As said, poses are horribly open to interpretation, and most of those supposedly purely eyecandy female poses could and can be interpreted otherwise. The last picture of the axe-holding redhead is a shining example. To me, her expression did not convey sexiness, it conveyed, via the smirk, and the slightly shifted pose, a dislike of whatever she was seeing (probably "not another god-damned fight").

Funny how you, on the opther hand, are fine with the eyecandy for girls presentation of male characters. Do you think Jim Raynor looks and poses the way he does to only adress males? Hell no.

Hell yes he does. Hes like something out of an army recruitment poster. There aren't any abs, or pecs, or oiled muscles. There is a giant suit of (mostly practical) armor and a look of grim determination. I would say the Raynor example proves the rule more than anything else.

As an aside, maybe there are girls who find grim determination sexy. I don't know. But the fact is that they are finding something about his characterization personality attractiveness, which is being communicated visually. Its the difference between Alyx Vance and Sophita.

And womankind play Strategy Games?

I'm really, sincerely asking. I know gals who like adventurers, platformers, fighting games, shooters, sandboxes, RPGs, JRPGs MOBAs, MMOs, flight simulators, even datesims aimed at men... but I'm yet to find a single lady who digs a strategy game in any format, be it Real Time, Turn Based or Tower Defense (other than the most basic of basics that is Plants vs Zombies...).

I've heard rumors of a female Korean SC2 pro-gamer, but if even in South Korea, where Starcraft is bigger than religion and sports put together, this is considered odd and unusual...

I'm really just asking to be proved wrong. Empirically, it is proving a hard nut to crack.