The Big Picture: Going Green: Part I
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Not to go under anyones skin, but H.E.A.T reminds me of the debates often seen between Atheists and Christians.
The lantern constructs cannot interact with or control things of a yellow color. So if you had a yellow ball, you can't use the ring to just scoop it up with a giant green hand.Exterminas said:
Hahaha you forgot to mention one thing.
KYLE RAYNER OUTSOLD SUPERMAN AND BATMAN! He outsold EVERYTHING that wasn't Grant Morrisons JLA series... and he was ON the JLA. When Ron Marz was writing the book we finally had a hero who wasn't boring as shit. Hal Jordan was as dull a you could make a superhero, the most basic interpretations of Superman were more intresting than Hal Jordan.
You wanna know why he sold? because it was GOOD, seriously go back and actually READ these storylines, don't just parrot wikipedia, the comics are awesome as hell. And here's the worst thing, Hal Jordan as a villain? he was MAGNETO.
He was not "Mwahahahaha I'm evil" he was "I want to make things right, I just want to be a hero and save lives" because this image people THIS is the image of a completely crazy evil man!
Yeah look at that insane evil villain and how he curls into the fetal position because he hates himself for failing all those people.
Hal Jordan was a COCK! He was an asshole through out the entire book, he utterly snapped at Guy Gardner calling him a brain damaged idiot, beating him up and taking his ring. Him snapping was the most humanizing thing that ever happened to him.
Any you want to talk Plot Derailment and Character Derailment? look no further than Green Lantern RIGHT FUCKING NOW! Not only does Geoff Johns play so fast and loose with the continuity that many GL storylines no longer make any sense, but he also had THE most bullshit excuse for Hal going crazy.
See it wasn't that Hal was human and knowing he failed 7 Million lives caused him to try his best to go back in time and save them, it was that a giant yellow space bug was possesing him. And not only that but EVERYTHING that happened that wasn't Hal being his bland boring self, ever doubting himself, going with Green Arrow on his trip around America? all that was the work of a Yellow Space Bug too.
Of course this makes no sense when Hal as Parallax did good things, like knowingly erasing his own memory so he could fail at resetting the universe. Or giving up his life in 'Final Night' to Reignite the Sun.
Conversly, THIS is Kyle Rayner
Faliable but with a heart of gold, he OVERCAME his fear, the price the ring had, the people he loved dying, he fought through it all and he was dedicatedly ANTI-DARK AGE. He didn't kill, he was a hero, a good hero.
HEAT never gave him a chance because Hal Jordan could eat shit each comic and they would be pleased. Hell it's the same for ALL the lanterns.
The Jerk with a heart of gold that most people think of Guy Gardner as was in Justice League International, Ron Marz's Green Lantern and Peter Tomasi's Green Lantern Corp. Otherwise he was a one dimensional jerk
John Stewert was only slightly less bland than Hal Jordan where his big characterization was "I'm black and I accidently blew up a planet" in Ron Marz's GL John actually got to be a fleshed out character, the fact he was an Architect was important.
KYLE RAYNER OUTSOLD SUPERMAN AND BATMAN! He outsold EVERYTHING that wasn't Grant Morrisons JLA series... and he was ON the JLA. When Ron Marz was writing the book we finally had a hero who wasn't boring as shit. Hal Jordan was as dull a you could make a superhero, the most basic interpretations of Superman were more intresting than Hal Jordan.
You wanna know why he sold? because it was GOOD, seriously go back and actually READ these storylines, don't just parrot wikipedia, the comics are awesome as hell. And here's the worst thing, Hal Jordan as a villain? he was MAGNETO.
He was not "Mwahahahaha I'm evil" he was "I want to make things right, I just want to be a hero and save lives" because this image people THIS is the image of a completely crazy evil man!
Yeah look at that insane evil villain and how he curls into the fetal position because he hates himself for failing all those people.
Hal Jordan was a COCK! He was an asshole through out the entire book, he utterly snapped at Guy Gardner calling him a brain damaged idiot, beating him up and taking his ring. Him snapping was the most humanizing thing that ever happened to him.
Any you want to talk Plot Derailment and Character Derailment? look no further than Green Lantern RIGHT FUCKING NOW! Not only does Geoff Johns play so fast and loose with the continuity that many GL storylines no longer make any sense, but he also had THE most bullshit excuse for Hal going crazy.
See it wasn't that Hal was human and knowing he failed 7 Million lives caused him to try his best to go back in time and save them, it was that a giant yellow space bug was possesing him. And not only that but EVERYTHING that happened that wasn't Hal being his bland boring self, ever doubting himself, going with Green Arrow on his trip around America? all that was the work of a Yellow Space Bug too.
Of course this makes no sense when Hal as Parallax did good things, like knowingly erasing his own memory so he could fail at resetting the universe. Or giving up his life in 'Final Night' to Reignite the Sun.
Conversly, THIS is Kyle Rayner
Faliable but with a heart of gold, he OVERCAME his fear, the price the ring had, the people he loved dying, he fought through it all and he was dedicatedly ANTI-DARK AGE. He didn't kill, he was a hero, a good hero.
HEAT never gave him a chance because Hal Jordan could eat shit each comic and they would be pleased. Hell it's the same for ALL the lanterns.
The Jerk with a heart of gold that most people think of Guy Gardner as was in Justice League International, Ron Marz's Green Lantern and Peter Tomasi's Green Lantern Corp. Otherwise he was a one dimensional jerk
John Stewert was only slightly less bland than Hal Jordan where his big characterization was "I'm black and I accidently blew up a planet" in Ron Marz's GL John actually got to be a fleshed out character, the fact he was an Architect was important.
They didn't cut Hal to make Kyle, they cut Hal because Green Lantern dropped below the threshold for cancellation, like it or not Green Lantern was changing, if Hal didn't die the book would simply have been cancelled. The new issues coming out weren't anything out of the normal, and it's not like they weren't betraying their own continuitymaximara said:
Well if I say it, it'll ruin part II so I'll put it in spoilers and keep in vague.Gindil said:
As you might be able to guess there is some serious retconning where they make Hal Jordon no longer evil. Basically he's all good again and the JLA all forgive him. Apart from Batman who feels he most atone for his crimes, he throws a Bat grapple around him and starts lecturing Jordon on being evil and Jordon evaporates the grapple and turns round and punches him. It be fair you can sort of see how Geoff Johns is a quite a big green lanter fan. Because I still think Batman could've/should've blocked it.
I never understand when this kind of thing happens (ie people bitching about replacing one character with another). No matter how much you like a character, theres a point where they need to be sent of into the night. These H.E.A.T. People seems to just want thing to stay exactly the same, which annoys me because I like to see a series develop, rather than stagnate.
Is it just me, or does that finale for the original green lantern actually sound pretty awesome? Insane after the events of crisis and becoming a mega-supervillain actually sounds pretty badass in my book.
Of course comic geeks will be comic geeks and essentially nothing should ever change, but I do see why people would be annoyed at the implications if not so much the actual events happening on-page.
Of course comic geeks will be comic geeks and essentially nothing should ever change, but I do see why people would be annoyed at the implications if not so much the actual events happening on-page.
Thanks for that, Mr. Movie Bob. I would never have even heard of this stuff unless you brought it up. Very interesting. Can't wait to see how it turns out. I'm not going to Google it or anything. I was 14 in 1994, so I remember the world pre-interwebs. I am curious to see how these H.E.A.T. guys won. Keep up the good work Bob! You're awesome!
This gets all confusing when DC introduced yet another Green Laturn in the Justice League cartoons...
I admit that I didn't read that many comics during the 90s, the only ones I read were the JLA comics I got out of my local library. Hence, I was more familiar with Kyle Rayner than Hal Jordan.
But of course, some people couldn't take it, and went to extreme lengths just to get the old Green Lantern back.
(Hell wrath no fury like a fanboy scorned, I suppose...)
That is exactly why I hate crazy-obsessed fans. They... kinda scare me, and I can be a bit of a crazy fangirl myself when push comes to shove...
But of course, some people couldn't take it, and went to extreme lengths just to get the old Green Lantern back.
(Hell wrath no fury like a fanboy scorned, I suppose...)
That is exactly why I hate crazy-obsessed fans. They... kinda scare me, and I can be a bit of a crazy fangirl myself when push comes to shove...
There also was a Green Lantern crossover with Aliens (the face hugging, chest exploding, blood that can eat through plate steel ones, not the rest of the Green Lantern Corps)i have no idea how that happened
Interesting video. Look foward to seeing part 2 and what you have to say about the Death of Superman story.
If I may ask though, MovieBob, as I'm really wanting to know your opinion on this, on a scale to 1 to 10, how much did the 2011 MTV Movie Awards sucked? Are they even no longer relevant as a film awards show, considering how much they've been playing to the Twilight fan base which has given undeserved awards to them, making Hollywood think this is what the people want? Were they ever a relevant film awards show?! At this point, I personally consider the Razzies more relevant than the MTV Movie Awards. I just couldn't help but to want to hit my head against the wall seeing this year's show, like the last three before that.
If I may ask though, MovieBob, as I'm really wanting to know your opinion on this, on a scale to 1 to 10, how much did the 2011 MTV Movie Awards sucked? Are they even no longer relevant as a film awards show, considering how much they've been playing to the Twilight fan base which has given undeserved awards to them, making Hollywood think this is what the people want? Were they ever a relevant film awards show?! At this point, I personally consider the Razzies more relevant than the MTV Movie Awards. I just couldn't help but to want to hit my head against the wall seeing this year's show, like the last three before that.
The MTV Movie Awards were NEVER relevant, nor is any similar award that's left up to a public vote. They are an excuse to sell a BOATLOAD of advertising by assembling hundreds of famous/popular celebrities together in one place because it's bad P.R. to look ungrateful by not showing up to maybe get a priz - nothing more, nothing less. Yes, I remember when they used to have funny sketches and joke prizes, too; but the "main" show was still meaningless B.S.Saarai-fan said:
The only thing sadder than being "upset" that the MTV Awards were a giant "Twilight" party is being SURPRISED by it
What, you trash the old Corps for the yellow impurity caused by Parallax trapped in the Central Power Battery but no word about Alan Scott's sucky weakness against wood which is - as far as I know - never really explained and never overcome?
And I want to use this moment to state my disagreement with Kyle being stripped of his Ion powers. Anyone wanna join my rebel group?
And I want to use this moment to state my disagreement with Kyle being stripped of his Ion powers. Anyone wanna join my rebel group?
I agree with you on the point they're an excuse to sell a assload of adversising. I used to love it too with their funny sketches and whatnot, but now I just facepalm when looking at it. Still, I just can't help but to hate that the possible big wigs in Hollywood look at the MTV Movie Awards, watch the results, and think, "Oooh, so that's what the people want." Just makes me sad a bit.MovieBob said:The MTV Movie Awards were NEVER relevant, nor is any similar award that's left up to a public vote. They are an excuse to sell a BOATLOAD of advertising by assembling hundreds of famous/popular celebrities together in one place because it's bad P.R. to look ungrateful by not showing up to maybe get a priz - nothing more, nothing less. Yes, I remember when they used to have funny sketches and joke prizes, too; but the "main" show was still meaningless B.S.
The only thing sadder than being "upset" that the MTV Awards were a giant "Twilight" party is being SURPRISED by it
So on scale of 1 to 10 on how much they sucked, guess that means they are at negative infinity. Anyways, thanks MovieBob.
Well to be honest Bob, as far as the political spectrum goes, your exactly the kind of guy that was being talked about when people were complaining about Kyle Raynor. It's easy to dismiss the other side of these things when it's just that, the other side and not yours.
Let me be blunt, I'm pretty much on the opposite side of the spectrum politically even though I have every personal reason not to be. To be blunt I'm disabled, and yet I stick to my right wing ideals despite the fact that the guys who I'm usually backing are the ones who want to cut the benefits I am going to have an increasing need of as I get older, and the guys who I oppose are generally the guys who are going to give me things. In short, while I might not agree with them on everything, I generally stick to my principles.
I'm 35, and the 1990s was when I was in my teens through young adulthood, I was in the prime of my irresponsible geekdom when this, and numerous other things that can be similarly criticized were going on. On it's own you'd be correct that the whole Hal to Kyle changeover wouldn't have been that big a deal, but at the same time there was a general trend throughout all of geekdom to pretty much lay the smackdown on the Conservatives. Where before comics and most nerd media had remained fairly neutral, with characters from both demographics being present and managing to co-exist, there was a general house cleaning of right wing idealogy going on... and really it seemed to be connected to then President Bill Clinton and a lot of what seemed to be politically charged payback over the previous dominance of Ronald Reagan and his immediate successor George Bush Sr..
To put it bluntly, being even a moderate Republican (and yes, overall I *AM* moderate) in geekdom makes you something of a pariah nowadays because it seems like every attempt has been made to drive people like me out, and to portray the left wing as being inherantly good and pure, and the right wing with being... well everything that is evil and wrong. Just by expressing sentiments that aren't left wing or politically correct, or criticizing comics on those ground is enough to start massive, ongoing flame wars.
I do not think geekdom, of which comics is only one aspect, adapted to it's audience, so much as you had a situation where it set out to create the audience that we currently see, and it succeeded. Things like HEAT which is admittedly not entirely politically driven, are the expected backlash, things like that simply being notable because as you pointed out they worked when most similar protests have not.
It's easy to sit here and talk about moaning, when your pretty much in agreement with the changes that occured and the idealogy that is represented. That does not however mean that it was actually for the better, or even that it will stay that way indefinatly. Right now I think the political bias involved in geekdom will eventuall meet with a pretty big backlash, and really when that does happen I don't think it will be a good thing. Personally I tend to prefer a more realistic take on things, with a degree of parity between the two major political/social ideals that demonstrates how they have both their good and bad points.
Truthfully, with all of the lead up towards Marvel's "Civil War" event I thought that we were seeing things moving in that direction. In the end though it seems like they decided to pull the rug out from under it and turn it into a giant analogy to modern politics from a left wing perspective.... much how "V For Vendetta" as a movie was pretty much an exercise in indirect Bush bashing, while entirely missing the point of the original work. With "Civil War" to begin with they were creating a situation where both sides were basically right which is why the issues were so divisive and worth fighting for, in the end they pretty much turned it into a big "Iron Man is wrong, Captain America is right" statement with analogies to modern politics and "The War On Terror" which increasingly had little to do with the actual world they were in or the realities of the situation they were dealing with in that fantasy world.
Such are my thoughts at any rate. The basic point is that while people can point to any specific situation like "Green Lantern" and try and give reasons why why the changes were made in order to dismiss political accusations, if you look at the trends of the time you can see that there definatly was a political coup of sorts going on throughout almost all areas of geekdom.
Right now with the country divided 50-50 between political ideaologies and on most major issues, you aren't going to find many characters in comics, fantasy, or science fiction that represent the right wing perspective unless they happen to be bad guys.
Let me be blunt, I'm pretty much on the opposite side of the spectrum politically even though I have every personal reason not to be. To be blunt I'm disabled, and yet I stick to my right wing ideals despite the fact that the guys who I'm usually backing are the ones who want to cut the benefits I am going to have an increasing need of as I get older, and the guys who I oppose are generally the guys who are going to give me things. In short, while I might not agree with them on everything, I generally stick to my principles.
I'm 35, and the 1990s was when I was in my teens through young adulthood, I was in the prime of my irresponsible geekdom when this, and numerous other things that can be similarly criticized were going on. On it's own you'd be correct that the whole Hal to Kyle changeover wouldn't have been that big a deal, but at the same time there was a general trend throughout all of geekdom to pretty much lay the smackdown on the Conservatives. Where before comics and most nerd media had remained fairly neutral, with characters from both demographics being present and managing to co-exist, there was a general house cleaning of right wing idealogy going on... and really it seemed to be connected to then President Bill Clinton and a lot of what seemed to be politically charged payback over the previous dominance of Ronald Reagan and his immediate successor George Bush Sr..
To put it bluntly, being even a moderate Republican (and yes, overall I *AM* moderate) in geekdom makes you something of a pariah nowadays because it seems like every attempt has been made to drive people like me out, and to portray the left wing as being inherantly good and pure, and the right wing with being... well everything that is evil and wrong. Just by expressing sentiments that aren't left wing or politically correct, or criticizing comics on those ground is enough to start massive, ongoing flame wars.
I do not think geekdom, of which comics is only one aspect, adapted to it's audience, so much as you had a situation where it set out to create the audience that we currently see, and it succeeded. Things like HEAT which is admittedly not entirely politically driven, are the expected backlash, things like that simply being notable because as you pointed out they worked when most similar protests have not.
It's easy to sit here and talk about moaning, when your pretty much in agreement with the changes that occured and the idealogy that is represented. That does not however mean that it was actually for the better, or even that it will stay that way indefinatly. Right now I think the political bias involved in geekdom will eventuall meet with a pretty big backlash, and really when that does happen I don't think it will be a good thing. Personally I tend to prefer a more realistic take on things, with a degree of parity between the two major political/social ideals that demonstrates how they have both their good and bad points.
Truthfully, with all of the lead up towards Marvel's "Civil War" event I thought that we were seeing things moving in that direction. In the end though it seems like they decided to pull the rug out from under it and turn it into a giant analogy to modern politics from a left wing perspective.... much how "V For Vendetta" as a movie was pretty much an exercise in indirect Bush bashing, while entirely missing the point of the original work. With "Civil War" to begin with they were creating a situation where both sides were basically right which is why the issues were so divisive and worth fighting for, in the end they pretty much turned it into a big "Iron Man is wrong, Captain America is right" statement with analogies to modern politics and "The War On Terror" which increasingly had little to do with the actual world they were in or the realities of the situation they were dealing with in that fantasy world.
Such are my thoughts at any rate. The basic point is that while people can point to any specific situation like "Green Lantern" and try and give reasons why why the changes were made in order to dismiss political accusations, if you look at the trends of the time you can see that there definatly was a political coup of sorts going on throughout almost all areas of geekdom.
Right now with the country divided 50-50 between political ideaologies and on most major issues, you aren't going to find many characters in comics, fantasy, or science fiction that represent the right wing perspective unless they happen to be bad guys.
HEAT is proof one should not provoke fan boys
on a another level anyone else find it funny that this video containing moaning and whining fan boys was put up at the same time that many of us escapsists are moaning and/or whining/aruging about the WiiU
on a another level anyone else find it funny that this video containing moaning and whining fan boys was put up at the same time that many of us escapsists are moaning and/or whining/aruging about the WiiU