The Big Picture: Is Django Racist?

[krazykidd]

I decided to not watch Django unchained for the same reason as Spike Lee, before he made those statements . Now while i'm sure the movie has good intentions, those intentions are lost on the general public .

 

[abell]

Racism is still terrible. The socio-economic gap between white people and virtually every other race in the world is obscene. Black people are still treated terribly, by employers, by the police, by the government and by the general public. The few victories black people have achieved over years of determined struggle seem to have only moved the bigotry and abuse away from themselves and on to other groups.

We like to pretend racism is isolated. Racism is what defines western society. Wall Street was built thanks to investment in slave trade. America became a global superpower by embracing slavery to the bitter end. The Declaration of Independence was signed only because the British Empire demanded the commonwealth to abolish slavery and the americans refused.

Nowadays, we export racism and slavery. We send work to third world countries and work people of other races to death and somehow this is a step up from slavery. Every day, Taiwanese workers of Apple products can't take the brutal working conditions anymore and commit suicide. Even so, Iphones still dominate the market.

It is absurd to sugest that anything can be seperate from racism when everything we have ever known is racism.

So, point by point.

Black people are treated terribly. Are they torn apart by dogs? Are they forced to labor against their will? Are they legally prevented from voting? From holding political office? From eating in the same restaurants, going to the same schools, and hospitals? No, to all of that? So, we can agree that race relations in America are better than they were in pre-Civil War America? Pre Civil Rights America? Good?

Racism is what defines Western Society. Wow. Just wow. Western Society, the past 500 years of European and American (North and South) history is all about racism? It's not about the religious wars that swept through Europe for several hundreds of those years, and directly led to Enlightenment Philosophy as well as the exodus of Europeans to the New World? Also, racism doesn't exist in non western societies? Japan and Korea haven't had a thousand year blood feud, despite the fact that they're genetically impossible to separate? Absolute statements tend to be difficult to defend, because they're very fragile.

The Declaration of Independence was signed because the British required the abolition of slavery. You have delved deep into the historical revisionism well. The Brits didn't outlaw the slave trade until 1807 and didn't abolish slavery until 1833. Seriously, wikipedia exists.

Wall Street was built on slavery? No. Just no. Slavery was not a good economic system, in the same way that feudalism was not a good economic system. Because, they're pretty much the same system. Do you remember how the North economically dominated the South, which led to the South being incredible protective of their way of life. Then, during the Civil War, the North produced way more guns, had better rail lines, logistics, etc? Like, basic 8th grade education? The reason for that is because industrialization makes you way richer than agriculture based slavery. Indeed, do you remember how right after the end of slavery, it was basically reintroduced as share cropping, which actually saved the plantation owners a whole bunch of money? Wall Street was built on the backs of Stanford, Carnegie, Mellon, Rockefeller, Morgan, and Vanderbilt. Look them up, they didn't get rich being plantation owners. Again, Wikipedia exists.

We export racism and slavery to the third world. Already covered the racism section of that. Taiwanese workers are not slaves anymore than you or I are, unless you believe capitalism itself is slavery, but, that's a bigger conversation. It's much easier to bridge the industrial gap with the money provided by industrial countries that want to import cheap goods, than to try to do it alone. That nasty industrial phase lasts less than a lifetime in developing countries, compared to the century and a half that it took Britain, and the US. E.g., Singapore in the past 40 years.

Here's a nice visual representation of what Western Industrialization has done for the world.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbkSRLYSojo

Finally, "...everything we have ever known is racism." This is exactly the problem that I was referring to earlier. Race is not everything. Race is not the foundation of everything. Race is a single component in human lives, that includes art, reason, faith, work, love, etc. Can race interfere with those? Sure. But, they're not determined by race, now less so than any other time in history. And if you insist on viewing "everything" in terms of race, you're the one with a problem.

 

[mrblakemiller]

I decided to not watch Django unchained for the same reason as Spike Lee, before he made those statements . Now while i'm sure the movie has good intentions, those intentions are lost on the general public .

The film has made $126 million dollars at the box office. The general public is watching the film, and a lot of them are thoroughly enjoying it. They are actually getting those good intentions as opposed to those who are refusing to watch it (not that that's not your right, of course).

 

[Gilhelmi]

I was going to go see this movie, but sadly the director (whose name I can not spell for the life of me) makes far too violent of movies for my tastes. I choose not to see it on that ground alone.

However, the story looks interesting, and Mr. Lee sounds like a bigot. If he had seen the movie first, then I would have more respect for his opinion.

 

[Brad Shepard]

So let me get this right, a movie about a former slave wanting to kill his old owner and get his wife back is racist now? If anything its empowering.

 

[krazykidd]

I decided to not watch Django unchained for the same reason as Spike Lee, before he made those statements . Now while i'm sure the movie has good intentions, those intentions are lost on the general public .

The film has made $126 million dollars at the box office. The general public is watching the film, and a lot of them are thoroughly enjoying it. They are actually getting those good intentions as opposed to those who are refusing to watch it (not that that's not your right, of course).

Oh i have no doubt people are watching it . But i seriously doubt the grand majority of people are really "getting" the movie . Beig black myself , i always find movies that deal with racism ( any kind of racism not just towards black people ) hard to watch . Hell i watched the movie "Man with the iron fist" and the small 5 minute segment showing the black smith past with slavers hard to watch . Let alone an entire movie revolving around it .

I would not call this movie "racist" per se , but i personally , do not enjoy these kinds of film . While i do understand the importance of remembering events of the past, i don't enjoy feeling like i'm being told :" look your black and this is where you came from " , even if it wasn't meant to intentionally scorn me .

I know i am explaining this poorly , iv'e always had trouble expressing my feelings when it comes to this perticular subject .

 

[Ken_J]

What's good is that this dialogue about slavery is exactly what Tarantino whats. That and to remove all the venom out of the word ******.

 

[Ken_J]

So let me get this right, a movie about a former slave wanting to kill his old owner and get his wife back is racist now? If anything its empowering.

Just because something is empowering doesn't mean it can't be racist.

 

[yunabomb]

The film has made $126 million dollars at the box office. The general public is watching the film, and a lot of them are thoroughly enjoying it. They are actually getting those good intentions as opposed to those who are refusing to watch it (not that that's not your right, of course).

In the world of race and film you always have to be wary of good intentions. A lot of films have good intentions, but just end up making white people feel good about themselves rather than seriously exploring race and race relations. I briefly mentioned The Help in an earlier post. There are also plenty of white savior films out there.

I don't know if Django Unchained fits into this since I haven't seen it. I'm just posting this to show that just because people are enjoying a film's good intentions doesn't necessarily make it a good thing.

 

[Lonewolfm16]

And where was Spike Lee's outrage when Tarantino made a movie confronting the actual Holocaust?

That was my first thought too.

OT: Agreed with everything you said Bob. We shouldn't be throwing this stuff in a closet. It needs to come the surface every now and then. And if it's a fun and cathartic experience where the good guys win, all the better IMO. "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

Yeah. My first criticism of Spike Lee's ethos of "slavery should be dealt with by black filmmakers" is that by that logic US filmmakers shouldn't be allowed to deal with any issues. Like, how can you make a Hollywood film about Vietnam or the Holocaust without it being completely detached from the things its protagonists went through and the implications thereof. If Lee really believed his own argument, he'd have quit movies.

Also it seems odd that being loosely geneticly related (but more geneticly related than other, even more loosely geneticly related people) suddenly grants insight. I find his "Of course blacks know best what blacks went through. We share a skin color and distant ancestry with those people. Isn't that what is important?" attitude kinda odd. Why should you be more concerned or connected to one tradgedy over another just because you happen to be very very distantly related to the victims of one?

 

[octafish]

Ok so it is petty of me but...Spagetti Western's didn't turn the traditional Western inside out and subvert the vision of John Ford. John Ford did that. Bob you need to watch The Searchers. It is important. Not to dismiss the work of Helman, Leone et al but Ford wasn't a one dimensional director either

 

[LiquidGrape]

Here is a picture of Quentin Tarantino together with actress Nichole Galicia who plays "Sheba" in Django Unchained. Note the pose and clothing. Or in one case, lack thereof. [http://24.media.tumblr.com/67e3e0460932c5877c0b4e4d4367a396/tumblr_mgoeq6mE0h1rtg4mro1_500.png]

I'm just going to leave this here. I think the irony speaks for itself.

 

[Caffeine_Bombed]

If the movie was made by a black director and writer, Spike Lee would say it was one of the most poignant movies of our time. If you ask me, the only thing that's racist about this movie.. is Spike Lee.

Bingo.
Spike Lee is an ass. Have you ever heard his views on The Green Mile, specifically the character of John Coffey?
He uses the term "super-duper magical negro" to describe him. This basically means a black character who only exists to help white people. And guess what? It's because there are too many white decision makers in media.
So if a black man is cast in the part of, well...Jesus, that's just Whitey keeping you down!

Also the guy's remaking Old Boy.......just piss off already, Lee.

 

[LiquidGrape]

If the movie was made by a black director and writer, Spike Lee would say it was one of the most poignant movies of our time. If you ask me, the only thing that's racist about this movie.. is Spike Lee.

No he bloody well wouldn't. Stop with that kind of conjecture. I have plenty of reservations with regards to Spike Lee, and I wouldn't hesitate to call the man an ass, but projecting your presuppositions isn't the way to go. Google what Spike Lee has to say about fellow black filmmaker Tyler Perry. I think you'll find it illuminating.

 

[immortalfrieza]

Django isn't racist, not by a long shot, and even if it was, so what? It's just a movie, why should anyone care? IMHO I can tell you what is extremely racist and sexist these days, the good ol US of A as a whole. Thanks to our obsession with political correctness we are more racist and sexist than we have ever been in our history, with the exception of the time when swinging black people by a rope in the trees and smacking our wives was a routine activity. Why? It's because we (and by we I mean the country as a whole) are completely obsessed with avoiding anything that could possibly be considered racist and sexist comments at all times, but more importantly, We. Just. Will. NOT! SHUT! UP! ABOUT! RACISM! AND! SEXISM!!!

Both sides, whether it be the white guys or the black/asian/hispanic/women/ etc. will tiptoe around everybody else and scream bloody murder if anyone says or does anything anymore that could even be slightly considered racist or sexist, making WAAAAY bigger deal about those than they really are worth. Whenever something that could possibly be considered racist or sexist like Django comes out, people act like the MOTHER****ING 15th or 19th amendments have been repealed or something, not like "________ has come out, is it a good ______ or not?" Like they should. The irony is the fact that we're being extremely racist and/or sexist by doing that ourselves.

We've got to the point where we are so NOT victimized by racism or sexism in any real meaningful way in our real lives that we go around looking for anything that can even vaguely be considered racist or sexist in our entertainment, news media, or what some guy down the street said just so we feel justified in continuing to b****h about it. Hell, if sometimes if we really can't find it we'll just make it up if we really have to.

The fact is, there's very little if any serious racism or sexism out there anymore, at least in the U.S. If you want to avoid being racist and/or sexist, here's some advice people: if you experience racism or sexism in a real, major way, take whoever or whatever it is to court if you really need to, every other case? Every other case is just insults, just ignore it like mature human beings. You know, ignoring insults? The thing we spend years in school being taught to do? Whatever happened to that? That, and act the same way around people of other races and genders the same way as you would among your own, that is EQUALITY.

 

[jovack22]

Another well done short Bob.

 

[mew4ever23]

Anyone else notice the return of Moviebob's accent during parts of this one?

OT: Interesting opinion, and I think it's not an incorrect one, nor is Spikes.

 

[daxterx2005]

Well said, Bob.
Django was a fantastic movie.

 

[nondescript]

I'm gonna go on record as disagreeing this time. If you go with the established definition of racist, (casting a particular ethnic group in favorable or unfavorable light by merit of their ethnicity alone), then yes, it is racist. DiCaprio makes me hate white people. I don't idolize Django, but I do feel strongly for him and other characters. If roles were switched, it wouldn't work as well. (Assuming it wasn't supposed to be historical fiction.) So agree to disagree? Still a good one.

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

19 seconds till the accent showed up, that's a new record.
And where was Spike Lee's outrage when Tarantino made a movie confronting the actual Holocaust?

Funny how outrage works.

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