The Big Picture: Is Django Racist?

[RedDeadFred]

And where was Spike Lee's outrage when Tarantino made a movie confronting the actual Holocaust?

That was my first thought too.

OT: Agreed with everything you said Bob. We shouldn't be throwing this stuff in a closet. It needs to come the surface every now and then. And if it's a fun and cathartic experience where the good guys win, all the better IMO. "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

 

[Kwamouflage]

Good feature. I liked it. Good work man.

 

[Lonewolfm16]

For once I thought this was a great episode with a very rigid logical structure, but I wonder; if someone made a movie about all the black-on-black slavery that took place during this same period, would that be okay?

Do you mean the slavery in pre-colonial Africa that was the result of tribal warfare, and acted as a predeccessor to American slaver, or the odd cases of American slavery where free-blacks wound up wealthy in the south and bought slaves?

 

[JudgeGame]

-snip-

Wow. That is a fascinating reading. I mean, I was aware of the incredibly complex nature of Kill Bill's "borrowing" but I had no idea it was talking about that.

I know it's nowhere as intricate but I really enjoyed Death Proof. People dismiss it a lot but I was shocked by how good the script was. In that film, I could appreciate QT taking the archetypical slasher killer and reappropriating it. Slasher killers are almost always borne from some form of bigotry eg southeners, hillbillies, the mentally impaired, adopted children, exentric neighbors, racial stereotypes, etc. Death Proof was about a serial killer that stalked women at bars. Unlike the traditional creepy stalkers of other slashers, the female leads have no relation to the killer and have done nothing to ellicit his "revenge", they aren't guilty of any crimes and on his side the killer isn't a socially inept dweeb but a suave older man with a silver tongue.

QT actually created a believable villain and believable, interesting female protagonists who act like women in a slasher flick, and it was fun to watch. That kind of blew me away.

What I wanted to say is that having gotten the gist of what he was doing in Death Proof, I totally believe everything you mentioned in your analysis of Kill Bill was intentional because it fits perfectly with QT's style.

 

[JudgeGame]

And where was Spike Lee's outrage when Tarantino made a movie confronting the actual Holocaust?

That was my first thought too.

OT: Agreed with everything you said Bob. We shouldn't be throwing this stuff in a closet. It needs to come the surface every now and then. And if it's a fun and cathartic experience where the good guys win, all the better IMO. "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

Yeah. My first criticism of Spike Lee's ethos of "slavery should be dealt with by black filmmakers" is that by that logic US filmmakers shouldn't be allowed to deal with any issues. Like, how can you make a Hollywood film about Vietnam or the Holocaust without it being completely detached from the things its protagonists went through and the implications thereof. If Lee really believed his own argument, he'd have quit movies.

 

[PaperpunkGenre]

Like Zachary Amaranth I have to call bull on Tarantino being "savvy" and having a deep understanding of the context of his content. The man just puts stuff in films he likes. People only look at the surface of his work because that's all there is: surface! Sorry :\

But hey! There's nothing wrong with that. If something entertains you, then it did its job. To ask anything more of a director is just asinine.

Can the director do something deep? Sure, that's fine. It'd be a bonus. Eat up. But if a director makes a film that sounds shallow and looks shallow... and then advertises it as something deep well... he scammed you good.

And do you know what? Kudos to him because he got that money. He did his job well. That?s good business.

But don't just try to justify a film you enjoyed as being something it wasn't. It's like someone trying to dive head first into a shallow pool: it's just not smart.

But do whatever you want to do. I'm not gonna stop you.

Quick little replies:

@gphjr14: I don't think anyone is missing anything by skipping the film. It's so middle of the road that I was thinking of Inglorious Bastards the whole time. Now Kill Bill and Planet Terror were a completely different issue.

@Anoni Mus: All I saw was someone being belligerent and embarrassing himself on national television. It?s pretty childish if not completely unprofessional. Someone could even make a strong claim that he's antisocial and can't handle PR. Gotta keep irritation close to the vest yo, close to the vest.

 

[JudgeGame]

The word racist barely makes any sense to me. I would assume that it means that an action or statement can be called racist if it makes claims that a person or people, of whatever racial distinction, are inferior or superior to another.

It seems to me that the term "racist" is only important as the buzz word that means you are free to bludgeon a person labelled that without a response, for which the only shield is to.

I haven't seen Django Unchained yet, but I'm sure based on Tarantino's previous movies that it just may be less racist than just about any movie Hollywood makes including Spike Lee's. Because they tend to actually have characters portrayed as being just their characters and merely acknowledging their background, and not so much defined by heavily manipulated social narratives: White Bad/Spoiled/Ashamed and Black Good/Poor/Suffering. Maybe it will.

Slavery actually happened. It is a thing that we have to deal with now. Racism isn't a buzzword, it's a reality.

And yeah, saying Tarantino's films are "less racist than just about any movie Hollywood makes" makes me doubt you've watched very many of his films.

 

[BrotherRool]

snip

Wow thanks, thats so much more to the films than I'd ever thought about it. Knowing this sort of thing makes rewatching so much more interesting, to have all that to think about. I'm going to have to trace down a copy so I can have another look, and maybe learn more about Tarantino. I think Kill Bill might be the only film of his I've actually seen

So thanks again, I was hoping someone might be able to tell me something but this was way better than I could have expected

 

[Frostbite3789]

And of course, another jab at The Dark Knight Rises. Yes, we know that you hate the film. Can you shut up about it?

Sorry movie bob can't speak, he currently has the avengers balls on his chin

You realize he took at a jab at The Avengers too, right? Or are you that caught up in your anger that you selectively hear things?

 

[Frostbite3789]

Slavery actually happened. It is a thing that we have to deal with now. Racism isn't a buzzword, it's a reality.

And yeah, saying Tarantino's films are "less racist than just about any movie Hollywood makes" makes me doubt you've watched very many of his films.

And the US is one of the most racially sensitive countries in the world. I don't think you'll ever hear a racist chant at a hockey game in North America, where a good chunk people pick it up. Like what happened to Wayne Simmonds while playing in Europe during the lockout [http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/wayne-simmonds-subject-racist-chants-fight-czech-republic-180408876--nhl.html]. That doesn't happen here.

There was one incident in Canada (where it was only one dude), but that's out of how many years in the NHL vs 4 months in Europe?

 

[qeinar]

Good thing I'm not a Tarantino fan and wasn't planning on seeing this movie. 4:50 seems like a bit of a massive spoiler.

well not really. ^^ Also spike is sort of speaking from not having seen the movie so his view on it shouldn't really matter much to people.

 

[MrBaskerville]

Not only am I mad that Spike Lee still has enough cachet to say he won't watch a movie and have people listen to him, I'm annoyed that he gets called a great filmmaker. Name a Spike Lee movie that's not "Do The Right Thing" (1989) or "Malcolm X" (1992). He hasn't made a great movie in twenty years. Why are we talking about him like he's some sort of visionary?

25th hour? Actually it´s the only Spike Lee movie i´ve seen, but i think it´s brilliant .

 

[abell]

Slavery actually happened. It is a thing that we have to deal with now. Racism isn't a buzzword, it's a reality.

Yes and no. Clearly, slavery happened, and, clearly, racism still exists, though, again, clearly not in a way comparable to 50 years ago, let alone 150. On the other hand, accusations of racism seem to have almost no correlation at this point to actual incidents of racism. I'm pretty sure that's the point he was getting at.

 

[The Random One]

I'm not sure I agree, and I'm not sure Bob is qualified to speak of this, but I'm glad he aknowledge the answer is more complex than either DURP OF COURSE IT IS and DURP OF COURSE IT ISN'T.

 

[daibakuha]

Like Zachary Amaranth I have to call bull on Tarantino being "savvy" and having a deep understanding of the context of his content. The man just puts stuff in films he likes. People only look at the surface of his work because that's all there is: surface! Sorry

I seriously suggest you get some education in film before making a statement like that.

Besides, if Tarantino didn't intend this type of subtext, then it wouldn't be present in nearly every film he's made to date.

and about the link posted: He actually handled himself really well, he was annoyed sure(and he has every right to be annoyed, he's been dealing with this shit for 20 years now), but didn't hold it against the guy. He didn't storm out of the room, he didn't throw things at the guy, he simply stated he wasn't going to answer and explained why.

 

[Hutzpah Chicken]

I thought Spike Lee faded into obscurity. Anything that has to do with black people is automatically racist so he can make more money or some liberal crap like that. Once again, I don't understand why people look at some form of media and say, "That's racist!" instead of just liking/disliking it.

 

[Zeldias]

19 seconds till the accent showed up, that's a new record.
And where was Spike Lee's outrage when Tarantino made a movie confronting the actual Holocaust?

Didn't know that black people had to attend to every outrageous event. He's a black guy, so slavery hits him differently than the Holocaust.

Anyways, I'm not sure about the movie (although it feels racist to me), but more importantly, a lot of the reactions are racist. "We can finally have a discussion about slavery!" and all this crap, like people haven't been writing on this for years and years now. The reactions that people are having to the movie, including the Oscar snubs, strike me as racist that way. I also feel like the movie is racially exploitative, and in that sense racist.

 

[peruvianskys]

Now, I'll also say I thought the "is it racist?" angle was going to be the idea that movies like this can, on some level, accidentally put forward: The victims of Atrocity X would have broken free if they'd have just fought harder.

This is an important point. I felt as though the film implied that slavery was sustained because blacks just weren't badass enough. Tarantino seemed to be, at least subconsciously, saying that the guidance of a wise white man was all any black man required in order to beat slavery, with essentially no focus on the larger social and psychological aspects of chattel slavery that perpetuated the system and reduced intelligent, strong men and women into submissive tools.

If you want Django Unchained to just be a fun revenge flick with inverted racial roles, then that's fine - but if you're going to read into it, you have to admit that for every clever statement regarding the cultural history of Westerns or our understanding of slavery, there is at least one equally unsettling implication regarding the way we view the slaves' culpability and agency. The whole thing seemed like a textbook case of what would happen if a white person who obviously loves and respects black culture and history tried to make a movie about it; on its face, the film has an undeniable reverence and love for the experience and motivations of its characters (with the exception of SLJ's), but there are some very white assumptions and uncomfortably paternalistic, exceptionalist narratives underneath.

 

[creamy5000]

Watching this video made me think back to the Passion of the Christ. I am Not a religious person. But passion was the first time I really saw Jesus as a human not just a character in a book. If this is what Django does for slavery... Good we need to remember how evil we can be and learn to not repeat the past.

 

[keltar93]

And of course, another jab at The Dark Knight Rises. Yes, we know that you hate the film. Can you shut up about it?

Sorry movie bob can't speak, he currently has the avengers balls on his chin

You realize he took at a jab at The Avengers too, right? Or are you that caught up in your anger that you selectively hear things?

Plus the part where he said that Dark Knight Rises was good in his review.