The Big Picture: It Seems Today ...

Dunesen

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Jul 31, 2013
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Well, since the topic has been brought up...

My issues with Family Guy, The Simpsons, and Futurama can all be covered in one phrase: Driven into the ground.

Let me say right up front that I love/have loved all three series. The Simpsons in particular is the single most influential and entertaining work I have ever experienced in my life, and stands at the top of the pop culture mountain for my generation. And I loved early Family Guy; the anarchic "Let's do whatever's funny" sensibility set it apart from The Simpsons and everything else on the air at the time. And Futurama made great use of its characters and was never stymied by its futuristic sci-fi setting; on the contrary, it mined some of the greatest jokes and storylines out of its premise.

But all of these shows have been on for too long, not in terms of the actual episode count but in terms of what has been done too often. We've seen the characters going through the same problems again and again, we've heard the catch phrases one too many times, and whatever was clever and original has been milked dry.

"Oh, Homer has a new job. Oh, Fry and Leela are kinda-sorta going out again. Oh, Stewie's gay. HAVEN'T SEEN THAT BEFORE!"

It's not, as Bob argued in his "The Simpsons is still funny" videos, that entertainment has become too fractured. It's that we've seen Homer and Marge's marriage on the ropes so many times it's impossible to think of them as characters anymore so much as animatronics programmed to recite the same dialogue for every passing carriage of tourists. Regardless of whatever good will built up over the Golden Age, Homer doing something stupid cannot retain the same impact over time.

It's basic psychology: what is new is interesting and fun, but over time it becomes ordinary. We become used to it, it's no longer exciting, and thus the feelings we have for it level off or drop.

I really wish American TV would follow the format of Britain or Japan, which have limited runs for most series and don't allow every show to coast for years as they become tired and stale.

Back on topic... Futurama has semi-abandoned its "It's the future" premise in favor of jokes about the Kardashians and CSI and Tron: Legacy. When I heard the Kardashians joke I was ready to smother the show with a pillow myself, and the news that the show has been canceled elated me. It's not that the show hasn't delivered some winners post-un-cancellation, but if they're also going to turn out an episode revolving around the Cult of Apple and Susan Boyle then please, in the name of mercy, kill the show. Better it die now and we can remember the good times than we see it carry on for another five years as it gets increasingly horrible.

Which leaves Family Guy... Like I said, I loved the early seasons, and when it came back it was appointment viewing for me. But then the show settled into a groove of random cutaway gags, references as punchlines, and making everyone on the show an asshole. Seriously, is there a truly sympathetic character in the entire cast? At best you have Meg, but I wouldn't consider her a real character. Even Brian, who (like Bob) I may agree with politically, is heavy-handed and difficult to actually like; something the show pointed out itself (but which they didn't learn from).

For everything that Bob said about the characters on Family Guy "growing," the show is ready to make any character obnoxious or off-putting in the name of supplying basic drama or a punchline. The only consistent personality traits are the broadest ones possible: Peter is stupid, Stewie is gay, Chris is slow, Quagmire's a horndog, etc.

I don't expect Family Guy to get canceled anytime soon. The ratings probably aren't too bad. But it's more than a bit confounding that McFarlane would continue to put his name on/lend his voice to this when something like American Dad was able to actually grow into a great show and gets by on consistent characterization and actual plots.
 

KOMega

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Family Guy?
Say it ain't so, Bob.
Say it ain't so.
/joke

Family Guy is alright here and there. But nothing super spectacular to me.
I enjoy those Brian and Stewie team ups the most though.

edit: also
pearcinator said:
Making fun of AIDS is not funny...it's like the lowest form of comedy.
even if something happens to offend me personally, I would like to think that letting people laugh at something is better than having them be super serious or become awkward all the time at the slight mention of a given subject.
 

Kittyhawk

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Aug 2, 2012
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I can agree that The Simpsons has had its day, while it still manages to tickle a chuckle out of me. Family Guy, though I liked from the first series, because it pushes the comedy envelope that The Simpson used to do, but perhaps through mass media popularity may have eased off of.

Its also given me a new appreciation of cleverly written musical pieces, another thing The Simpsons pioneered, but Family Guy took to a whole new level. Family guy is a tough watch in standard def, just like the Simpsons. Both are great shows that can be enjoyed whatever your age (well, not too young) but as you grow and mature just get better.

As for Bob's Burgers, that's a cool funny new show that more people should check out and support too.
 

Pink Apocalypse

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Varya said:
My biggest problem with FG is that I don't think all of the writers know WHY the offensive humor works. Like, the show sometimes goes from doing subversive sexist, homophobic and racist gags to just being sexist, homophobic and racist.
This. So much this.

It's a strange, uneven mix of intelligent, self-aware humor and completely clueless, insulting 'humor'. It's pretty obvious that not all the writers have the same sensibilities.

Writing things that laugh at racist, sexist, homophobic 'bro' mentalities, and writing things that racist, sexist, homophobic 'bro' mentalities laugh at, are two completely different things.

Often it seems that some of the writers didn't get the memo.
 

Sheo_Dagana

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Gotta agree with you Bob - the show got much better after it got back on the air. I'm not actually even interested in watching most Family Guy episodes from the first three seasons and pretty much every reason you listed hit the nail on the head for me. Seth Macfarlane catches a lot of heat but I think he's genuinely interesting and has a great sense of humor - not just in his ability to write something that can still make me laugh all these years later, but also about himself. That said, I'm disappointed that at least two of my friends said that they would walk up to him and punch him in the face if they saw him just walking by in public. It's weird to me. I mean, I hate Anthony Jeselnik but you don't see my cutting off my hand. I just... cut my hair different for a little while.

Family Guy quotes are a little annoying and there are a few genuinely offensive moments in the show, but at it's core, it's pretty comfortable in that I know I'm going to laugh if I watch it. If I'm looking for something to watch and I want to laugh, Family Guy can do it, but I'm more interested in watching American Dad if I can. It's sad to hear the Cleavland show is coming to an end and I'm hoping American Dad won't be going off the air anytime soon, since Family Guy seems like it's nearly done as well.
 

Kittyhawk

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Aug 2, 2012
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@Pink Apocalypse

Like plays or books of tragedy, comedy shouldn't have any boundaries. When every subject is fair game, its okay to not laugh if you feel a joke is too close to the bone. There's also a big difference in laughing at a joke told to you (on tv or by a friend) because you see where its going, and not laughing because you dislike where the joke was going or would not go there to tell a similar joke yourself.

Humour will be different for each person on the planet. Go with what works for you.

However, don't fall into the trap of thinking that because you found an FG joke funny (say the You've Got Aids skit above for instance), that you are some kind of aids victim hater, because for most people that won't be the case. In fact, I bet some people with AIDS will laugh at it too (as its such a taboo some still find it hard to talk about). Better it (or any other subject) be raised in humour and conversation that not talked or thought about at all.

Don't forget, there are still places in the world where doing such stuff will wrongly get you thrown in jail. Here's to comedy and self expression.

If some feel offence from FC, that's okay to be offended, but don't deny it from others and just don't watch it. Plenty of other stuff on tv you can enjoy.
 

nightazday

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Apr 5, 2009
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Wouldn't say I hate family guy as I'm just sick of the whole animated sit-com thing. What the Flintstones and the Simpsons brought to animation has pretty much been done to death on both extremes. Kinda of on the level of non-animated sit-coms on their overplay (though animated ones are slightly more tolerable).

Now if you REALLY want to piss people off say you like the Big Bang Theory.
 

Kittyhawk

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@Nightazday

Sure, I can agree the animated sitcom has been done to death and back. Its a piece of tv that studios find hard to let go, though, as its likely to cover a huge age group. The Simpsons ran for so long, partly because of its jokes for young and older watchers have done it justice. Its still the longest running animated series, and that's something few animated works ever achieve.

The U.S studio attitude to animation certainly could be use some adjusting though. I hope shows like SW Clone Wars, Venture Bros, Black Dynamite would gradually do more to give studios means to experiment. I think Archer is a good show, but its still comedy. The medium will never really progress unless boundaries are pushed and challenged, and I think one of those huge boundaries is pushing beyond U.S animation beyond the island of comedy.

Lol. You said TBBT. I dislike that show a lot (its like it was written by someone who bullied nerds or something) but I see why some would find its characters funny (some of them are funny), as not everyone has nerdy people in their circle, or so they think. It might cut close to me (some nerdy peeps go through a lot in their life), as I'm a bit nerdy (like many here), but I can laugh at myself sometimes too.

Perhaps its the laugh track/studio audience that makes TBBT worse.
 

Hutzpah Chicken

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The thing that annoys me most about Family Guy are the over extended jokes that reappear frequently. I can watch the show and I have seen some rather well organized and very hilarious jokes, but many of the crass and frankly overdone bits of humor that appeal to a 7 year old wear thin very quickly. My favorite gag has to be this one:
 

Aardvaarkman

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Tsukuyomi said:
I may have to try Bob's Burgers. Kinda figured it was going to be one of those "the guys at Adult Swim are CLEARLY superior to you so they have to teach you philistines what's funny/good TV and what's not." things.
I'm truly at a loss as to how you would get that impression from them showing a comedy about a family and their burger shop. What exactly is it that made you think they were trying to feel superior to you?

It's actually a very down-to-earth show, I'd say the opposite of the pretentiousness you're implying. It has genuine heart, humor, great characters and great voice acting.
 

pearcinator

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Father Time said:
pearcinator said:
Father Time said:
pearcinator said:
Family Guy is for people without a good sense of humour. Their skits miss the mark almost every time.
If you do not see the humor in this, well then I don't think anyone should listen to you about whether something's funny or not, let's just put it that way.

If anything, you just proved my point.

Making fun of AIDS is not funny...it's like the lowest form of comedy.
Anything can be made funny. Seriously pick a subject (not too specific) and I'll find you some dark humor that makes it funny.
It is true that anything can be made funny...but there is mature and immature comedy. I have a feeling that if I farted in a microphone you would shit yourself laughing. Family Guy is mostly immature comedy...for people who don't have a keen sense of humour.
 

MoeMints

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Apr 30, 2013
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Surprised Bob's Burgers gets so much praise, but honestly I see why I was wrong to judge it as another WACKY FAMILY show.
Like it does what I find flaws in the modern Family Guy family very well.

Bob is flippant and blunt at times like modern Peter, but its because of his environment and experiences that he gets put through day after day. Not because he thinks farting into his daughter is absolutely hilarious.

While the rest of his family is highly eccentric, but they're competent, varied, and actually tolerate each other for more than ten minutes.

My main problem is that the only times the soapbox is challenged, its supposed to be really quick or deliberately out of character, or resets the status quo immediately afterwards. Making it seem like "HA, Liberal Nice Guy Antitheist Feminist With Self-inflicted Tragic Lifestyle : 2592, Everyone else : 3"
 

NAdducci

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Oct 21, 2009
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This has bugged me ever since I saw the "Big Pictcha" episode accusing South park of "not taking a stand on anything". They do.

Yes, it's mostly outlined by poking holes in things people DO take a stand on, but then asserting that the better line of reasoning would say that people should make their own judgments and then keep them to themselves in 99% of cases. Their ideology is very Libertarian leaning and is consistently so, and thus DOES HAVE a valid ideology.

Bob's ridiculous assessment of politics leaves much to be desired. Which is perhaps why every assessment of the character changes from first run Family Guy to returned Family Guy, he liked and I hated. Except for Stewie and (kind of) Brian's.



Also, (and no it isn't unheard of) but for those of us who didn't watch the Simpsons until after watching Family Guy, we have a bias to liking the first run of family Guy vs. later for obvious reasons, and probably preferring the early Simpsons vs. now for the same reasons.
 

Kittyhawk

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@Pearcinator

I guess you and Father are two examples of different views.

Father and myself find that skit funny and you don't. Fair enough. Dispatch the comedy police.

I have a question for you though. Do you think that people who know they are going to die, are devoid of a sense of humour?

I'd bet the humour of some wouldn't change much, but their anger and regret might change more. When some are faced with possible death, all the everyday trivial stuff many people take for granted falls away, leaving focus on what really matters in life.

Anything is fair game in comedy (as FG does well and some have issues with that), the same as in the other muses of art or music. When we start editing the good and bad, those muses can lose their meaning and impact. That's why its best to personally self edit your eyes, ears or mind, if you disagree with it. This is a skill some other nations still have to learn, where they'd rather kill/abuse/jail a creative person, than just walk on by.

Please don't go chasing Seth down the street with a blunt object, if you dislike his show.
 

AgentNein

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ZOMG I AGREE SO MUCH BOB.

I really thought the show was pretty weak when it started, and when it came back? It infected this family of stereotypes with this wonderful absurdity.

It had always been there, in these shy hints, but I don't think it ever fully reared it's head til the show's resuscitation.

To paraphrase someone somewhere, "I was cancelled before, and being cancelled don't scare me no more". To visit Mcfarlan's intentions, I think he came back to the show pretty fearless in where he was willing to take these stories. I for one enjoy it.

Although neither American Dad nor The Cleveland Show have grown on me for some reason. To me it feels like they got stuck with the B writing team. Not sure how it actually is but that's how I've felt.
 

Verkula

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Family Guy was always funny. Sure there are weaker seasons sometimes but even then there's at least a few gem of an episode here and there. It's usually when the episodes try to have a serious story is when it can get lame, of course sometimes it work but they should just stick to what they know: stupid random humor that can hit you so hard you can't stop laughing.


Then again I don't hate any show, I just turn the "frequency" in my head and "tune" on to the style of the show im watching.

..and yes, first 3 seasons suck balls, evil Stewie is boring, and the dialogues sound like lame 80s sitcom expositions every few minutes, like the whole first season of Married with Children(and I fukin love that show past the first 2 seasons). Couldn't believe how tame it was compared to later episodes, but I guess they had to start somewhere, like South Park.
 

pearcinator

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Father Time said:
And I doubt your sense of humor is as refined as you think it is.
Tell me what do you find funny?
I find a lot of things funny...I don't have a refined sense of humour. I just don't think Family Guy is funny at all...maybe it is because they use jokes I have already heard before? I don't know what it is but I struggle to laugh at much of Family Guy. American Dad is superior (that actually has some alright jokes). I guess it all comes down to the characters.

I can't relate to any of the Family Guy characters but characters in The Simpsons, Futurama, Monty Python etc. all have characters I enjoy and I understand 'where they are coming from'. Family Guy constantly skips to little skits that have nothing to do with the story being told, which I find annoying and it feels like they are 'padding for time'.
 

Dansrage

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Bob's Burgers shout out, nice.

Cartoons may be a little different for me, I live in France and watch American shows online as they're released, there's no timetable or schedule for me, and I only ever see shows that I like when I want to watch them, so the idea of getting sick of seeing a certain show doesn't really exist for me. Sure we have French dubs that air on French TV, but they're not really a substitute for the originals and I've not owned a TV for a long time, considering anything I want I can get immediately online.

Family Guy is dumb, it's crude, it takes the brain power of a goldfish to watch it and stay interested, but sometimes it's 3am, you're playing some MMO or idly lurking the internet and all you have to spare is the brain power of a goldfish. It certainly fills a niche for me, Futurama is more clever, American Dad is more funny, but Family Guy is just dumb fun and it requires to participation on the part of the viewer.
 

compaqdeskpro

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Apr 15, 2013
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All of those adult cartoons are a world of hurt and a truly painful way to spend time, and I try to stay as far away from them whenever possible.