The Big Picture: Man of Tomorrow
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Bob, you say that it was wrong for Superman to kill one person and that it will open the door for Superman killing his other enemies.
But the complaints I've heard online is that he killed WAY more people when he had that DBZ fight with Zod at the end of the movie and by not even trying to save them from falling buildings and debris, it made him seem more heartless than just killing Zod.
But the complaints I've heard online is that he killed WAY more people when he had that DBZ fight with Zod at the end of the movie and by not even trying to save them from falling buildings and debris, it made him seem more heartless than just killing Zod.
I have found that the big issue with a lot of people and this movie is they keep trying to make it exactly the same as the comics. Yes it is superman but it is its own universe with its own rules and different characters who have developed differently. If you wanted a play by play of how it went down in the comics just read the comics the whole point of a re-imagining is that things are different. Superman and Lois Lane don't need to get together or even like each other why... because it isn't the comics and that is ok just you can't go in with too many preconceived notions.
The collateral damage he causes in the cartoons and comics will have killed people. Can't imagine that wouldn't be the case.Andrew Siribohdi said:
Why not just write it as he felt so bad about killing Zod that subsequently NEVER do it again? Seems like an easy enough out.
Gotta say. Didn't find Superman to be mopey and dreary in this. The problem I had with the movie is that they should have done away with one or two flashbacks in favor of spending time with the Clark of now. What we see of Clark is usually pretty upbeat, he's pretty social, he jokes occasionally, but we mostly just see him fighting or flashbacks to his father telling him to stay hidden. It's impossible to say Superman was too dark when we never got to see him outside of the dark situations that he kept getting put into.
I do agree with the Superman shouldn't kill thing, though. I mean, he already knows of one way to strip Zod of his newfound power, they did it to him when they were on the ship! And at least one ship wasn't disappeared at the end of that movie.
I do agree with the Superman shouldn't kill thing, though. I mean, he already knows of one way to strip Zod of his newfound power, they did it to him when they were on the ship! And at least one ship wasn't disappeared at the end of that movie.
What if Man of Steel was all a brilliant misdirect and what we were seeing was the beginning of the Superman from the Justice Lords aka the corrupt, fascist Justice League? Making the viewers care about Lord Superman and watch his decline into a tyrant who easily kills people could set the whole thing up for a massive twist when the actual Justice League shows up.
No, I don't expect that to happen. I just kind of wish it would. Read a review about Man of Steel about all the things Superman does that Superman shouldn't and it just made me sad. Skipping this movie.
No, I don't expect that to happen. I just kind of wish it would. Read a review about Man of Steel about all the things Superman does that Superman shouldn't and it just made me sad. Skipping this movie.
Ive yet to see it. But i think Superman should be conflicted about killing. Like its the last possible thing he would do to solve a situation if he couldn't imprison a guy. But the difference is comics to common sense. Even when someone looks at Batman, you think, just kill Joker....how many people has Joker killed, gets locked up yet kills again. A normal person would think "you know what, Joker is always going to kill and escape, better off killing him" Joker can not be changed to be a normal member of the public.
I guess this stuff works better in comics than movies. Comics are ongoing, a movie is 90 minutes - we expect an end and we expect justice. Movies and comics are always going to be different. cos a movie is a closed thing. You expect a start and an ending. In comics, this is not the case.
I guess this stuff works better in comics than movies. Comics are ongoing, a movie is 90 minutes - we expect an end and we expect justice. Movies and comics are always going to be different. cos a movie is a closed thing. You expect a start and an ending. In comics, this is not the case.
Honestly I despised this movie and everything it stands for. Dollars over screenplay Summer crap. Even among Blockbusters it was badly written. It was a mish mash of the first two movies, but every scene that was shared was worse in this one than those two.
I was equally confused. I always found the 'do not kill' rule to be utterly stupid, but it's now so integrated into the character that removing it seems..Bizarre. I mean, heck, is BATMAN the traditional 'good guy' now of the future Justice League?canadamus_prime said:
The problem with making a sequel to Man of Steel, in my opinion, is twofold.
One, the fact that it was directed by Zach Snyder to be a visual masterpiece and very little else makes it a really hard act to follow. Hell, I'm still confused as to how they're going to make a sequel to 300; I enjoyed the film, but I don't think I can handle any more men in leather underwear spinning around in slow motion. The thing that makes sequels possible, in my opinion, is a feeling that the world has not been explored enough, but when the first film is so focused on visuals, you don't get the kind of depth that you'd get from something like Star Wars, which looked good but also left its audience wondering about where their characters would go next, and what else the galaxy had to offer.
And that's the second thing, I don't think the characters have anywhere to go now. Krypton is destroyed, all the Kryptonians except Kal are dead, Lois already knows that Clark Kent is Superman, and everyone already agrees that Superman is a good guy. Superman himself has already gone through the Spider-man arc (gets cool powers, father figure dies, great power, great responsibility, kills someone and feels bad about it, gets the girl, etc.), and he's already broken Batman's one rule, so that arc is out. There's really nothing left for Superman to do, and there's really no one left to stand in his way. And, because of the previous problem, there needs to be something big going on in order for a sequel to be made about it.
One, the fact that it was directed by Zach Snyder to be a visual masterpiece and very little else makes it a really hard act to follow. Hell, I'm still confused as to how they're going to make a sequel to 300; I enjoyed the film, but I don't think I can handle any more men in leather underwear spinning around in slow motion. The thing that makes sequels possible, in my opinion, is a feeling that the world has not been explored enough, but when the first film is so focused on visuals, you don't get the kind of depth that you'd get from something like Star Wars, which looked good but also left its audience wondering about where their characters would go next, and what else the galaxy had to offer.
And that's the second thing, I don't think the characters have anywhere to go now. Krypton is destroyed, all the Kryptonians except Kal are dead, Lois already knows that Clark Kent is Superman, and everyone already agrees that Superman is a good guy. Superman himself has already gone through the Spider-man arc (gets cool powers, father figure dies, great power, great responsibility, kills someone and feels bad about it, gets the girl, etc.), and he's already broken Batman's one rule, so that arc is out. There's really nothing left for Superman to do, and there's really no one left to stand in his way. And, because of the previous problem, there needs to be something big going on in order for a sequel to be made about it.
Superman shouldn't kill, but the point is he regretted killing zod only because he was forced to do it. This could be the way the sequal could work with him questioning his own morality, and maybe he shouldn't be superman to prevent him from becoming a monster like Zod only to face his fears and become a hero to save the day.
Sorry, Bob. I have to disagree. That scene worked. It was legitimately one of the best scenes in the movie.
I think the problem is you're viewing it through the Comic Guy glasses. For people who didn't have the background in Superman, the movie didn't need to tell us that Superman doesn't kill. We got that. Spelling it out would have just made it obvious it was going to happen. Presented as it was, it had the emotional weight the writers were looking for while still being shocking because it was unexpected.
It Worked. Hell, I'd go so far as to say it was one of the only threads that did work in the movie.
As to where the franchise can go from here? Lots of places. That moment could become the reason for his creed in later movies. He has killed and it scarred him, so now he doesn't kill any more.
Don't fault one of the best scenes in the movie just because it presented Superman in way different from image you had in mind.
I think the problem is you're viewing it through the Comic Guy glasses. For people who didn't have the background in Superman, the movie didn't need to tell us that Superman doesn't kill. We got that. Spelling it out would have just made it obvious it was going to happen. Presented as it was, it had the emotional weight the writers were looking for while still being shocking because it was unexpected.
It Worked. Hell, I'd go so far as to say it was one of the only threads that did work in the movie.
As to where the franchise can go from here? Lots of places. That moment could become the reason for his creed in later movies. He has killed and it scarred him, so now he doesn't kill any more.
Don't fault one of the best scenes in the movie just because it presented Superman in way different from image you had in mind.
I totally agree. After a while, it seems more bizarre NOT to kill the mass-murderer than to let him live. But in this case..Phantom Zone?SonOfVoorhees said:
Yeah, I and several others sat through the credits hoping to see a teaser, but even though we didn't get one, I like to think that it's for the best. This project felt really uncertain, and I kept thinking of how Green Lantern had a teaser at the end, even though it was so bad that it destroyed any chance of ever getting a sequel!
Yeah, I was also surprised when Superman killed someone, and I felt that his cry of sorrow was justified, even though I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't really understand why he'd do that. Some people probably would see no problem in killed Zod at this point, but really, I like that Superman's moral enough to realize killing is bad and that he immediately regrets killing Zod, even though he was kind of a bastard... Because he IS a well-intentioned extremist, he DOES care about his people, just in a really cruel, selective way.
But I get what Bob is saying... It is weird, though maybe he's not so much "willing" to kill people now as it is just a one-time thing and he was forced to do it and didn't have much time to really think about it.
Yeah, I was also surprised when Superman killed someone, and I felt that his cry of sorrow was justified, even though I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't really understand why he'd do that. Some people probably would see no problem in killed Zod at this point, but really, I like that Superman's moral enough to realize killing is bad and that he immediately regrets killing Zod, even though he was kind of a bastard... Because he IS a well-intentioned extremist, he DOES care about his people, just in a really cruel, selective way.
But I get what Bob is saying... It is weird, though maybe he's not so much "willing" to kill people now as it is just a one-time thing and he was forced to do it and didn't have much time to really think about it.
This. I actually found Clark to be pretty lighthearted. The scene when he was taken in by the army, for example, felt pretty light. However, when you consider what he was going through (bullied for more of his time at school, being told by Pa Kent that he needed to stay hidden, finally discovering about his past and then finding out the only others of his race still alive are completely evil) it's easy to see why he might not be completely jovial right now. I actually also liked Cavill as Superman/Clark. He seems like, if the script gave him more to work around, he could be very well-suited to the part. Plus he really goes look it.Blueruler182 said:
I was expecting him to pull Zod's head up in order to move the beam out the way of the family (who really needed to run, by the way...). Then almost throw him down and pin him. I could totally picture Supes being able to do that, if he summoned the strength. I never thought how he might get around Zod (who would keep coming back) but I'm sure there were ways, probably involving incapacitating him...
I liked the film, somewhere between a 7 or an 8 depending on how I feel on the day. The basis for Clark's character were there, let's hope the sequel can build on it.