canadamus_prime said:
80sboy said:
canadamus_prime said:
Wait, Superman kills Zod? That's not right. Superman doesn't kill.
Didn't Christopher Reeves Superman also kill Zod in Superman 2? He threw him in a chasm in the fortress of solitude when Zod become weak like human. Yeah! Doesn't seem like much of a rule for me.
Although I agree with Moviebob, but it's not that it's mopy, Superman just doesn't seem to be that well developed. Like Moviebob said, in this movie you don't even get the sense it's a rule until he freaks out for killing him in the end.
I don't remember that part, but then I haven't seen Superman 2 in quite some time. I remember the Fortress of Solitude, but I don't remember Superman actually throwing Zod into a chasm.
It actually depends on the version of Superman 2 you watch. In the Richard Donner version, they get sent back to the Phantom Zone. If you watch the movie studio edit version, I believe he gets thrown down a pit or something.
Mcoffey said:
Trishbot said:
While I agree with you about Superman, I still feel the situation in the movie is vastly different from the situations presented in Justice League and the Injustice comics.
Zod and Superman were on equal footing in terms of strength and ability. He's
not Superman to Zod. There was no strength or speed advantage in that final scene. It wasn't a situation of where the Joker and Lex will probably be in a situation in the future where they'll kill people, and he wasn't passing judgement on Zod for what he'd done. It was a moment where Zod was directly going to kill people, and he was unable to use any other option of restraint or deflection. Superman literally had no other option. And it
destroys him. He openly weeps for what he was forced to do. This isn't some macho Die Hard movie where he scowls at the camera while looking cool but remorseful. I don't expect any bros talking about how sweet it was when Supes kills him and immediately starts sobbing.
The movie makes it clear this was a terrible thing Superman had no choice but to do. And I very,
very much doubt that Superman will be offing his baddies in the sequel (Which will hopefully feature Brainiac because that was all I could think about when those Kryptonian helper robots where on screen).
I loved this movie, and I think they absolutely
nailed the character of Superman. Absolutely pitch perfect.
I'd disagree on a few things (and it's okay to disagree). Maybe it was the fault of lousy editing, but Superman, yes, shows he didn't WANT to kill Zod and lets out that pained "what have I done?" scream... but it was only a few mere minutes later that he and Lois are cracking jokes and flirting and the repercussions of what he's done seem to have almost instantaneously dissipated. In the comics, the moment he does what he does in the 1980s story, he flees from Lois in disgust because he can't even bear to look her in the eyes because of what he had done. He flat out disappears for two years. Obviously, the movie wanted to wrap things up on a comparatively "happier" note, but the way the scenes played out didn't make me think "wow, this is totally going to linger with him for years to come", not when he seemed to be coping with it just fine shortly thereafter.
And the argument that he was "on equal footing" with Zod to make it okay doesn't convince me either. It wasn't because they were equal in strength; you admit yourself it was because Zod was threatening civilians and Superman saw no alternative (though, seriously, those civilians should've MOVED. Stop standing there, morons!) Any villain can put Superman in that situation, no matter if they're strong or normal. Joker could have Lois hooked up to a bomb with his finger on the trigger, or Luthor could have arranged a deathtrap for Jimmy that only his death would prevent. Their strength doesn't matter, especially when intelligent villains can outsmart Superman to put him in a position of vulnerability. It was a REALLY BIG DEAL when Wonder Woman snapped a powerless human's neck because he had mind controlled Superman to go on a rampage and only his death could stop it... and even though it was "justified", both Batman and Superman were horrified with what she had done, even if her position was understandable.
But, well, if Brainiac is next... Brainiac isn't a person. He is not technically "alive". He's a cold computer program, and by all means Superman can "kill" him all he wants because he's neither alive nor even a physical being (hence why he keeps "dying" in the comics and has so many back-up copies of himself). So I fully expect, if Brianiac shows up, that he'll be "killed" just like Zod.
And, I don't know, that's a huge part of Superman the movies failed to grasp; apart from him barely spending a second to help the THOUSANDS of people no-doubt killed in their fight (seriously, lure him out of the city! Even DBZ characters are THAT smart), the fact that Superman resorts to basically pummeling the villain to death as his only means of victory shows how little they know or understand Superman. He's not a brute. He's smart, cunning, intelligent, resourceful, and he'll always use his fists as a last resort. At least in the two decades of comics I read, he made plans, set traps, outsmarted villains MORE often than he out-muscled them, and he managed to go all that time without ending a single life.
The Superman in the movies is the "punch him to death but feel bad about it" type, neither raised with the moral convictions that Pa Kent should've given him (seriously, go to hell, Pa Kent... you're like a Bizarro version of Uncle Ben's "great power comes great responsibility"), the brains to use his powers in ways that don't cause wanton destruction, or the charm and humor he always brought to those around him. Superman, more than any other hero, was a hero not because of some tragedy in his life, not because he has no choice but to stop the villains, but simply a means to do his civic duty with the abilities he had. He became Superman long before he had a villain to fight. He saved kittens from trees as equally as stopping aliens from conquering the planet. One of my favorite stories was when he just saved a bankrupt local deli by eating there and making people go "wow, Superman eats there? I want to eat there too!" so the old couple that ran the place wouldn't lose their income.
That, to me, is what makes Superman "super". Doing something like that speaks volumes more to him as a hero than snapping Zod's neck, but feeling really bad about it for a few minutes.