The Big Picture: Miracle, Man.

[Darth_Payn]

I really hope Bob's wrong about Marvel maybe introducing Marvel/Miracleman in Age of Ultron. See, Marveleman was really only notable for Alan Moore's reworking of him, before that he was just a generic,ripoff of Captain Marvel and by extension Superman. The Eclipse Comics stuff though, put him down into a world where there were no other superheroes and Moore wasn't bound by a status quo, which allowed Moore to go crazy with the character, throwing him into apocalyptic battles and dark conspiracies and questions about identity, ultimately ending the series as a quasi-benevolent dictator of a transformed Earth.

Putting Marvelman into the the Marvel universe though, would mean that he can't do any of that stuff, because at the end of the day Marvel Comics wants their fictional universe intact so that they can still tell stories and sell comics with the X-Men and Thor and all their other properties.

We saw the same thing when Marvel introduced the Sentry, that kind of superman-analogue just doesn't fit into the Marvel Universe's paradigm, so they're left awkwardly shuffling from story to story, no writer ever quite sure what to do with them.

This goes with my question: why go through all this trouble for a Captain Marvel (and as you pointed out, therefore a Superman) ripoff? I've never read any Marvelman books, but after your description of Moore's run, I'm also not seeing how he'd fit into the Marvel Universe. So again, why does Gaiman give so much of damn about this character that he would sink his own comic book profits into buying him?

Oh, and it wasn't just the Sentry. Marvel has tried this shtick before with other characters like Hyperion, and it didn't take off then either. I don't get why Marvel has such a Superman envy.

I remember hearing on some comic news sites around the time Marvel was planning to release the Miracleman collections that Miracleman was already IN the Marvel Universe, and he was the Sentry (this was during the SIEGE event, btw). You can thank/blame former Avengers writer Brian Michael Bendis for making the Sentry a more messed-up Superman analogue.
As for Hyperion, how many are there? Each time I see one pop up in the comics, he's from a different universe. I think at this point, all the heroes know about the multiverse and their counterparts inn them. There's even a Hyperion on the current line-up of Avengers, written by Jonathan Hickman, and so far he's alright.

captcha: deal me in
how apppropriate, seeing as how it sounds like Marvel's betting the farm on such a risk

 

[TheSchaef]

No one give Todd MacFarlane a Muffin Button. Please.

 

[saintdane05]

This reminds me of the recent Archie comics case, where teh former head writer sued Archie for using his characters IN THE SAME COMIC. They weren't even making money off them!
It ended with Archie losing the intellectual and publishing rights to any characters not introduced in Issue one or outside media, and before episode 150.

That is about, oh, 90% of the supporting cast, including Ixus Nagus, every echidna, Sally's family, etc...

 

[vid87]

The movie universe is still working on bringing in their weirder A-listers so we don't need to worry about Angela yet.

I don't really read comics so I don't have a good reference, but, outside Rocket Raccoon, UFC's George St. Pierre as "Batroc the Leaper" in Cap 2 is still the most WTF thing I've heard coming out of this series so far. *Fingers crossed for Stilt Man*

 

[JimB]

Does anyone know why Bob used a picture of Big Bird as the "giant middle finger" (around five minutes in)?

What the other guys said about it being a visual pun; which, by the way, I found so funny I almost snorted coffee ice cream out of my nose when I saw it. Well played, Mr. Chipman.

 

[lazinesslord]

So comics are weird, but intellectual property rights are weirder. Here's hoping that Gaiman gets the rights to Miracle Man and Medieval Spawn, then writes a comic where the former kills the latter.

Also, does anyone know why Bob used a picture of Big Bird as the "giant middle finger" (around 5 minutes in)?

Another way of saying "he gave him the middle finger" is "flipping the bird."

 

[Baresark]

That analysis was very intriguing. I do look forward to these videos on a weekly basis. Though I would have to disagree with you that Angela isn't that interesting of a character. Her origin, as far as heavenly and/or celestial characters is concerned, is far more interesting than any other of the type. I feel she was largely under utilized in any good way though. When I was in middle school I wrote some pretty mean fan fiction that explored that even more (I felt it was mean at the time, anyway. No one can really write in the 7th grade). I honestly would love to see an ongoing series written by Neil Gaiman again. He is one of my top 5 favorite writes still.

 

[Tradjus]

So, most of what I got out of this two video series is that Todd Mcfarlane is a gigantic douchebag and everyone in the Comics industry hates him. Yeah, every industry needs one of those, Microsoft just got theirs in the form of "Deal with it" Orth.

 

[GamerKT]

Welp.



http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/JoshWildingNewsAndReviews/news/?a=77305

 

[Hutzpah Chicken]

Since I have not known Marvel to be incredibly stupid, (I don't read Marvel, so anything really stupid they did would be new to me) I think the Angela red Herring to be spot on. Either way, I still feel that even Marvelman would be overshadowed quickly.

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

Wow. I guess I can't say I'm surprised, but I honestly didn't know that McFarlane was such a greedy douchebag.

 

[Something Amyss]

Yeah, I can't follow comics. All of these "Comics Are Weird!" episodes exemplify exactly why that is.

Yeah, and if they really do try and make more crossover movies, even those will be poisoned for me. Kinda sucks.

Actually, really sucks. Especially when you consider how expensive it makes the movies.

 

[dakkster]

I don't think I've ever seen Todd MacFarlane come off as anything other than the biggest asshole in the world.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

...so why can't I get a trade paperback copy of Alan Moore's Miracleman for less than $300? Seriously, I'm four books into the Swamp Thing run and I just want some more of this stuff. Will we get a reprint if they integrate Miracleman into the Marvel universe?

 

[The Random One]

Bob, my dearest friend, for the sake of all that is good and weird, when you mention a web link in your video, have it show up under the video so we can follow it without having to type MACHINE CODE. I almost 404'd myself because I thought Todd's last name was McFarland.

 

[BehattedWanderer]

Nah, Bob, you've got it all wrong, Angela showing up doesn't set a precursor to Miracleman showing up, it's a feint to get Morpheus and the Endless to show up. What a Twist!

 

[daxterx2005]

Wow, to think they could all be so petty.

 

[Gilhelmi]

And this is why you spring for the lawyers when you're writing up the contracts rather than waiting until shit hits the fan...

A rare post making me wish we could thumbs up here.

I know, I know. Lawyers are usually the Spawn of Satan, useful only because they understand the legal system. But this situation is the perfect example of why you need to use a lawyer up front so you do not end up in court.

Also, I never knew Todd McFarland was a douche. I am guessing that because of how often he lost in court and his other various legal wranglings.

 

[Big_Boss_Mantis]

I really hope Bob's wrong about Marvel maybe introducing Marvel/Miracleman in Age of Ultron. See, Marveleman was really only notable for Alan Moore's reworking of him, before that he was just a generic,ripoff of Captain Marvel and by extension Superman. The Eclipse Comics stuff though, put him down into a world where there were no other superheroes and Moore wasn't bound by a status quo, which allowed Moore to go crazy with the character, throwing him into apocalyptic battles and dark conspiracies and questions about identity, ultimately ending the series as a quasi-benevolent dictator of a transformed Earth.

Putting Marvelman into the the Marvel universe though, would mean that he can't do any of that stuff, because at the end of the day Marvel Comics wants their fictional universe intact so that they can still tell stories and sell comics with the X-Men and Thor and all their other properties.

We saw the same thing when Marvel introduced the Sentry, that kind of superman-analogue just doesn't fit into the Marvel Universe's paradigm, so they're left awkwardly shuffling from story to story, no writer ever quite sure what to do with them.

This goes with my question: why go through all this trouble for a Captain Marvel (and as you pointed out, therefore a Superman) ripoff? I've never read any Marvelman books, but after your description of Moore's run, I'm also not seeing how he'd fit into the Marvel Universe. So again, why does Gaiman give so much of damn about this character that he would sink his own comic book profits into buying him?

Oh, and it wasn't just the Sentry. Marvel has tried this shtick before with other characters like Hyperion, and it didn't take off then either. I don't get why Marvel has such a Superman envy.

For starters, I can't overstate my recommendation that you read the brief Alan Moore's run of the character (and Gaiman's too). It is Moore's Swam Thing/Gaiman's Sandman kind of great.
I guess it will only be available in the darkest corners of the internetz, but it will be worth your while. And no, you just can't officially buy it anywhere, unfortunately, precisely because of the neverending lawsuits.
So eff it, read it now, purchase it on paper as soon as it is available!

Now, let's have something clear. Marvelman being part of Marvel's Universe Mythos is just a conjecture. And is, from my point of view, a terrible idea, indeed.

However I just don't see it happening (conjecturing, myself), exactly because of the giant wasted opportunity it would be.

Gaiman is not going through all this trouble just that he can see if MM could beat Thor in a fist fight.
To me what's at stake here is not "British Superman", but the incredible story arcs written by Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman, which: A) were left unfinished; B) can't even be PUBLISHED, or read (unless you are lucky enough to find an obscure, very old, low quality edition), all because of a troublemaking toymaker and some legal shenanigans.

Miracle Man (I really prefer it that way, can't stand another "Marvel-thing") deserves to be known and recognised as the seminal work that transcended the comic book medium, just as it's aforementioned "siblings" Swamp Thing Saga and The Sandman. It is really that good!

So I am really, really hoping that Gaiman gets it his way and works with the character. And I don't believe he is going to be in the Marvel universe. Probably (and hopefully) it will be a standalone comic book, published by Marvel.
Or, on the unlikely (from my point of view) event that he joins Marvel's roster, it would be very tangentially related. After all, both the Swamp Thing and The Sandman (yes, even Neil Gaiman's rendition of the character) were part of DC's Universe.

Perhaps Gaiman's deal is "here, Marvel, have Angela!" (since he wouldn't do nothing with her anyway, and she's better suited to a superhero universe) and Marvel helps with the whole MM affair... Or maybe it is just to piss McFarlane off (and that is a guy who deserves a pissing).
Let's not forget that the battle is not to give MARVEL the character, but to acquire it for Neil Gaiman. And it could not end up in better hands!

 

[PrototypeC]

Bob, you tried to give an unbiased telling of the story, but in no universe is Todd McFarlane NOT a douchebag. You cannot tell the story in any way that will make him seem sympathetic without lying a bit. Nobody can say you didn't try, but it's an impossible task.