The Big Picture: Not Okay

[Helmholtz Watson]

Yes, just yes. You are either supporting rape victims, or supporting rapists. And you sure as hell aren't supporting rape victims, so...?

Provide me a quote where I specifically stated that I support rapist.

...really? Really?

Are you really trying to say that the two of them are in ANY way the same? Ladies and gentlemen, a shining example of male privilege at its finest, here.

When you and I go out, that is never something we think about.

Your kidding, right? I live in a major city, in a neiborhood where regular people(ie not criminals) are descouraged from going out alone at night do to the high number of students targeted for muggings, and other criminal acts.

We never have to worry about a drink offered to us at a bar, that maybe it's poisoned. We never have to scan a party when we enter, wondering, "Which of these strangers is most likely to kill me tonight?" We never have to worry about if the shirt we want to wear out is more likely to get us shanked.

While I don't live in a gang controlled area, if I wore red in some neighborhoods in California, I might get killed. If I wore blue, I could also die. You do realize that gangs have killed people because they wore the "wrong" color before, right?

This [http://www.kolotv.com/caravan/headlines/Police_Non-Gang_Member_Killed_For_Wearing_Red_114249049.html], this [http://www.texasgopvote.com/restore-families/community/crips-gang-puts-out-hit-kill-any-us-soldier-uniform-texas-missouri-and-oklahoma-003638], and this [http://blogs.denverpost.com/coldcases/2010/03/14/aspiring-rap-producer-gunned-down-wearing-wrong-color/1249/] are example of guys who wore the "wrong" shirt, even though they were not part of a gang.

You believe your right to use the word "rape" for cavalier, minor things that have nothing to do with sexual violation supersedes the right of rape survivors to not have their trauma marginalized and belittled.

Ergo, supporting rapists. Or are you going to pretend that you're supporting rape victims? (PS. You're not.)

I'm not supporting anybody when I use the word rape. I'm using a word to explain to my friends that I just took a test that I didn't think I did well on. You are trying to connect that to me supporting a person raping another person, which I never even mentioned.

 

[John Funk]

Yes, just yes. You are either supporting rape victims, or supporting rapists. And you sure as hell aren't supporting rape victims, so...?

Provide me a quote where I specifically stated that I support rapist.

...really? Really?

Are you really trying to say that the two of them are in ANY way the same? Ladies and gentlemen, a shining example of male privilege at its finest, here.

When you and I go out, that is never something we think about.

Your kidding, right? I live in a major city, in a neiborhood where regular people(ie not criminals) are descouraged from going out alone at night do to the high number of students targeted for muggings, and other criminal acts.

We never have to worry about a drink offered to us at a bar, that maybe it's poisoned. We never have to scan a party when we enter, wondering, "Which of these strangers is most likely to kill me tonight?" We never have to worry about if the shirt we want to wear out is more likely to get us shanked.

While I don't live in a gang controlled area, if I wore red in some neighborhoods in California, I might get killed. If I wore blue, I could also die. You do realize that gangs have killed people because they wore the "wrong" color before, right?

This [http://www.kolotv.com/caravan/headlines/Police_Non-Gang_Member_Killed_For_Wearing_Red_114249049.html], this [http://www.texasgopvote.com/restore-families/community/crips-gang-puts-out-hit-kill-any-us-soldier-uniform-texas-missouri-and-oklahoma-003638], and this [http://blogs.denverpost.com/coldcases/2010/03/14/aspiring-rap-producer-gunned-down-wearing-wrong-color/1249/] are example of guys who wore the "wrong" shirt, even though they were not part of a gang.

You believe your right to use the word "rape" for cavalier, minor things that have nothing to do with sexual violation supersedes the right of rape survivors to not have their trauma marginalized and belittled.

Ergo, supporting rapists. Or are you going to pretend that you're supporting rape victims? (PS. You're not.)

I'm not supporting anybody when I use the word rape. I'm using a word to explain to my friends that I just took a test that I didn't think I did well on. You are trying to connect that to me supporting a person raping another person, which I never even mentioned.

Exactly. Not supporting rape victims. So you are supporting rapists.

Words mean things. Get over your privilege.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Exactly. Not supporting rape victims. So you are supporting rapists.

You didn't read what I said, did you? I said my expression doesn't support either party. I am merely explaining the level of difficulty a recent test was.

Words mean things. Get over your privilege.

Didn't we just go over this? You brought up how I have privilege and focused on going out at night, and wearing clothes that could bring harm to myself, and I clearly showed you how being a guy didn't make me immune to being afraid to go out at night(because people in my neighborhood like to mug and attack students), nor does being a guy prevent me from potentially being killed because I might wear the "wrong" colored shirt, which could lead to me being killed by a gang member.

 

[dyre]

Exactly. Not supporting rape victims. So you are supporting rapists.

Sorry, just thought that was a pretty weird line. I'd better go support some rape victims...wouldn't want people to think I support rapists.

 

[cobra_ky]

I also have to question the "rapists thinks everybody are rapists" source. If anything, I'd at least like to see it. I'd also have to question the "6% of college students are rapists" survey. I'd like to see those questions. I can think of several questions that could easily artificially inflate that statistic and merge several very different situations and actions under the damning umbrella of rape.

Spoiler: These are the questions they asked:

(1) Have you ever been in a situation where you tried, but for various reasons did not succeed, in having sexual intercourse with an adult by using or threatening to use physical force (twisting their arm, holding them down, etc.) if they did not cooperate?
(2) Have you ever had sexual intercourse with someone, even though they did not want to, because they were too intoxicated (on alcohol or drugs) to resist your sexual advances (e.g., removing their clothes)?
(3) Have you ever had sexual intercourse with an adult when they didn?t want to because you used or threatened to use physical force (twisting their arm; holding them down, etc.) if they didn?t cooperate?
(4) Have you ever had oral sex with an adult when they didn?t want to because you used or threatened to use physical force (twisting their arm; holding them down, etc.) if they didn?t cooperate?

Unfortunately the study isn't free to read anywhere as far as i know, but here's a good breakdown of it. The conclusion is especially relevant if you really think "the mates you grew up with" are really beyond reproach.

I also don't think it's okay that so much of this is specifically directed towards men. Where I come from black males are FAR more likely to commit a crime, yet that doesn't mean that suddenly we should start directing all of our anti-crime movements towards that specific group of people.

So in America, the racial breakdown for violent crime arrests is roughly 60% white and 40% black. Blacks may be statistically more likely to commit violent crimes (due to economic and other factors) but singling them out won't solve the problem because the majority of violent crimes are still committed by whites.

Now, when it comes to rape? 99% percent of the perpetrators are men. Women shouldn't condone or trivialize rape either, but the overwhelming majority of actual rapists are men.

I'm sure there are LOT'S of sober woman who have had sex with drunk men at one time or another. That constitutes rape.

Only if the drunk man didn't actually want to have sex.

 

[cobra_ky]

Exactly. Not supporting rape victims. So you are supporting rapists.

You didn't read what I said, did you? I said my expression doesn't support either party. I am merely explaining the level of difficulty a recent test was.

Your expression is hurtful to rape victims without condemning rapists in any real way. Rapists are the only ones who benefit from the type of statements you're defending.

Words mean things. Get over your privilege.

Didn't we just go over this? You brought up how I have privilege and focused on going out at night, and wearing clothes that could bring harm to myself, and I clearly showed you how being a guy didn't make me immune to being afraid to go out at night(because people in my neighborhood like to mug and attack students), nor does being a guy prevent me from potentially being killed because I might wear the "wrong" colored shirt, which could lead to me being killed by a gang member.

And women aren't subject to these same concerns?

 

[Ishigami]

So this Aris guy is a jerk and wanted to justify himself thru ?unspoken community laws??
Makes him even more of a jerk I guess...

After all this talk here I have to admit using rape as a hyperbolic function seems still tolerable for me.
It is supposed to stress the traumatizing nature of the event. Figurative language so to speak.
And I don't think it counts as sexism either since rape happens to both gender.

 

[mandalorian2298]

Well, we made it this far without insults, but I must say that you are thicker then the Earth's crust. Here is a quote from my post that YOU HAVE QUOTED IN YOUR OWN POST!!!!

"The only reason that I have mentioned that in my post has been to explain why I care deeply about people making the mistake that I described in my post. The validity of my objection should be judged solely on it's coherency and the quality of my reasoning. I do not believe that my academic title, by itself, makes my reasoning more or less sound. For the same reason, I see no need to make a reference to other people's work in order to strengthen my case. Non quis, sed quid. (it doesn't matter who said something, it only matters what they said)"

P.S. I am against eugenics. I think that it's a terrible, stupid ideology based on ignorance and delusions of grandeur. But you, sapphireofthesea, are a definite proof that some people should not be allowed to reproduce. Please get out of the gene pool and hit the shower.

I just wanted to verify that it's obvious he's got nothing here and his posts are entirely pointless, seeing how they do nothing to contest or rebut your reasoning, as he's merely whining that your posts aren't "sourced" in order to reinforce his own delusion that they somehow hold less water for that reason alone. I'm not even commenting on what I think of your OP, guys like that just piss me off.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for confirming to me that I'm not losing my mind. Every now and then I start getting this delusions that if I explain stuff logically people will either see my point or point out the flaws in my reasoning. And then guys like sapphireofthesea remind me that logic is not what human race is about.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Your expression is hurtful to rape victims without condemning rapists in any real way. Rapists are the only ones who benefit from the type of statements you're defending.

Your still not showing me proof that I openly stated that I support rapist

And women aren't subject to these same concerns?

I never said that women didn't have these same concerns. You on the other hand, made the claim that men didn't have to worry about these kinds of things, so I pointed out how you were wrong about that.

 

[axlryder]

Spoiler: These are the questions they asked:

(1) Have you ever been in a situation where you tried, but for various reasons did not succeed, in having sexual intercourse with an adult by using or threatening to use physical force (twisting their arm, holding them down, etc.) if they did not cooperate?
(2) Have you ever had sexual intercourse with someone, even though they did not want to, because they were too intoxicated (on alcohol or drugs) to resist your sexual advances (e.g., removing their clothes)?
(3) Have you ever had sexual intercourse with an adult when they didn?t want to because you used or threatened to use physical force (twisting their arm; holding them down, etc.) if they didn?t cooperate?
(4) Have you ever had oral sex with an adult when they didn?t want to because you used or threatened to use physical force (twisting their arm; holding them down, etc.) if they didn?t cooperate?

Unfortunately the study isn't free to read anywhere as far as i know, but here's a good breakdown of it. The conclusion is especially relevant if you really think "the mates you grew up with" are really beyond reproach.

Well thank you, those questions are far less manipulative than I though they would be. Also, I don't think my mates are beyond reproach (no one is) but considering they're all mellow, peace-loving hippy types with too much estrogen, I kind of doubt they're rapists (though, again, no one knows for sure). What I balk at is more that simply saying "oh man, you totally raped me" is going to have a deciding influence on whether or not they ACTUALLY rape someone. As I said before, it IS possible, but so is the whole violent video games business (which I'd honestly consider more likely). I just don't think it's a grounded enough statement to start censoring things or telling people they "shouldn't" do something because of it. Plus, that last portion of the claim is based far more in speculation than research. That is, to my knowledge, there haven't been any studies that correlate using the word rape as a synonym for defeat and a person's likelihood to commit rape. Again, that doesn't mean I condone the usage of the word rape in any way other than to describe rape, but yadda yadda you get the picture.

So in America, the racial breakdown for violent crime arrests is roughly 60% white and 40% black. Blacks may be statistically more likely to commit violent crimes (due to economic and other factors) but singling them out won't solve the problem because the majority of violent crimes are still committed by whites.
Now, when it comes to rape? 99% percent of the perpetrators are men. Women shouldn't condone or trivialize rape either, but the overwhelming majority of actual rapists are men.

That breakdown is for the entirety of the U.S., hardly reflective of the area I lived in. My point was specifically directed at that specific area (though my post might not have reflected that intention. If not, I apologize). I'll admit though, the ratio of black to white crime likely wasn't so one sided. The main point, however, is that no matter how statistically dominating one particular gender/race/group are in committing a specific act, disregarding the others is unfair. That 1% is enough to consider the female offenders, especially when you take into account the information Mr. Funk generously provided about how common rape really is (I'd also imagine that the entirely unreported statistics for female sexual assault is probably much higher for reasons of embarrassment and not being taken seriously... well not being taken seriously and embarrassed even more than male on female rape victims, but that's obviously pure speculation). Looking through the registered sex offenders list in my current neighborhood, it's obvious that the majority are male, but I've come across 4 females so far. That's enough for me to feel wronged when people act like rapists are all men. I'm not saying I'm super offended when people generally reference men (as men generally rape), more so bothered when they act as though woman aren't even part of the issue. Occasionally I see a point that smacks of sexism or uses those statistics as an excuse to make generalized, offensive statements about men in general. It's more of a quibble though, separate from my main point.

Only if the drunk man didn't actually want to have sex.

that's....debatable

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.267238-Poll-Is-it-rape-if-you-agree-to-sex-while-severly-intoxicated-high?page=12

honestly though, I was always more of the "you live with your choices" camp, so I can't really argue that one too hard. However, I remember reading something that says if a person is intoxicated then what they say can't qualify as consent.

Thanks again for the study, though. That was helpful.

 

[John Funk]

Exactly. Not supporting rape victims. So you are supporting rapists.

You didn't read what I said, did you? I said my expression doesn't support either party. I am merely explaining the level of difficulty a recent test was.

Words mean things. Get over your privilege.

Didn't we just go over this? You brought up how I have privilege and focused on going out at night, and wearing clothes that could bring harm to myself, and I clearly showed you how being a guy didn't make me immune to being afraid to go out at night(because people in my neighborhood like to mug and attack students), nor does being a guy prevent me from potentially being killed because I might wear the "wrong" colored shirt, which could lead to me being killed by a gang member.

Not what I'm meaning by privilege, there. I mean your privilege to ignore the very real meaning that some words can have. And I'm assuming the women in your neighborhood are immune from the same fear? Or do they need to think about that, AND worry about being raped, too?

Also, "man, that test was super hard. I think I did terribly."

Same expression, less support to rapists.

Exactly. Not supporting rape victims. So you are supporting rapists.

Sorry, just thought that was a pretty weird line. I'd better go support some rape victims...wouldn't want people to think I support rapists.

Well, when we're talking about influencing culture and society and individual people with the things you say, it really is a binary.

Are you:

A.) Tilting society towards indirectly or directly supporting rape victims and potential rape victims?

Or

B.) Tilting society towards indirectly or directly supporting rapists?

I'm not saying you need to immediately go and volunteer at a battered womens' shelter or you're supporting rapists. I'm just saying that the words you use, and the context in which you use them, is part of a larger cultural paradigm.

Your expression is hurtful to rape victims without condemning rapists in any real way. Rapists are the only ones who benefit from the type of statements you're defending.

Your still not showing me proof that I openly stated that I support rapist

And women aren't subject to these same concerns?

I never said that women didn't have these same concerns. You on the other hand, made the claim that men didn't have to worry about these kinds of things, so I pointed out how you were wrong about that.

Nobody is saying that you said you openly supported rapists. His point, which you are blinding yourself to, is that... well, I'll just quote him directly:

Rapists are the only ones who benefit from the type of statements you're defending.

Ergo. Support for rapists.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

snip

Your failing to show how I support rapist. I think what you mean to say is that I trivialize the word rape.

 

[John Funk]

snip

Your failing to show how I support rapist. I think what you mean to say is that I trivialize the word rape.

No, we're exactly showing you how you support rapist. You are just refusing to see it or acknowledge it.

In trivializing the word rape, you are supporting rapists.

 

[dyre]

Exactly. Not supporting rape victims. So you are supporting rapists.

Sorry, just thought that was a pretty weird line. I'd better go support some rape victims...wouldn't want people to think I support rapists.

Well, when we're talking about influencing culture and society and individual people with the things you say, it really is a binary.

Are you:

A.) Tilting society towards indirectly or directly supporting rape victims and potential rape victims?

Or

B.) Tilting society towards indirectly or directly supporting rapists?

I'm not saying you need to immediately go and volunteer at a battered womens' shelter or you're supporting rapists. I'm just saying that the words you use, and the context in which you use them, is part of a larger cultural paradigm.

So if I lose a game and say "geez, you just slaughtered me," is that tilting society towards supporting murderers? Clearly not, because anyone in his/her right mind would realize that there's a difference between using a jargon synonym for "soundly defeated" and encouraging murder. The same goes for "raping" at a game. It clearly does not mean my gaming character physically raped your gaming character, or that such actions should be supported in any way.

Rape jokes and uses of the word "rape" in gaming are tasteless and stupid, but to say that they support rapists is retarded and shows a serious inability to differentiate connotation with denotation, as well as childish taunts and real world crimes.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

snip

Your failing to show how I support rapist. I think what you mean to say is that I trivialize the word rape.

No, we're exactly showing you how you support rapist. You are just refusing to see it or acknowledge it.

In trivializing the word rape, you are supporting rapists.

no I'm refusing to go with the idea that I support rapist, because I don't.

It seems dyre has also shown how what you say doesn't make sense.

 

[John Funk]

Exactly. Not supporting rape victims. So you are supporting rapists.

Sorry, just thought that was a pretty weird line. I'd better go support some rape victims...wouldn't want people to think I support rapists.

Well, when we're talking about influencing culture and society and individual people with the things you say, it really is a binary.

Are you:

A.) Tilting society towards indirectly or directly supporting rape victims and potential rape victims?

Or

B.) Tilting society towards indirectly or directly supporting rapists?

I'm not saying you need to immediately go and volunteer at a battered womens' shelter or you're supporting rapists. I'm just saying that the words you use, and the context in which you use them, is part of a larger cultural paradigm.

So if I lose a game and say "geez, you just slaughtered me," is that tilting society towards supporting murderers? Clearly not, because anyone in his/her right mind would realize that there's a difference between using a jargon synonym for "soundly defeated" and encouraging murder. The same goes for "raping" at a game. It clearly does not mean my gaming character physically raped your gaming character, or that such actions should be supported in any way.

Rape jokes and uses of the word "rape" in gaming are tasteless and stupid, but to say that they support rapists is retarded and shows a serious inability to differentiate connotation with denotation, as well as childish taunts and real world crimes.

We've been over this before. There is such a VAST GULF between murder - a devastating, but relatively rare crime - and rape - a devastating crime that one out of every six women can expect to suffer from in their lifetimes, and that is still in some ways supported by society. Most people never ever think about being murdered. Most women think about how to avoid rape every time they go out.

So even not counting the social stigma against rape victims - not rapists, rape VICTIMS - there's a huge gulf in simply how COMMON it is.

I refer back to cobra_ky's comment: "Your expression is hurtful to rape victims without condemning rapists in any real way. Rapists are the only ones who benefit from the type of statements you're defending."

Let me quote myself, from earlier, but switch things up.

In what way is losing in a video game like being sexually violated? You are comparing something traumatic to something insignificant.

Were you violated because of your loss?

Are you at risk of STDs because of your loss?

Are you at risk of pregnancy because you failed your loss?

Because your fictional character lost, are you assumed to be lying when you tell someone about it?

Because your fictional character lost, will you be forced to testify in court and relive your violation if you want to have any hope of seeing justice done, OR let the person in charge of your violation get off scott-free?

Are you going to be told that you "deserved it" and you "had it coming" because you lost your videogame?

Is your boyfriend/girlfriend going to break up with you after you lost your game because you're 'dirty'?

Are people going to start calling you 'slut' and 'whore' because you lost your game - people you once called friends?

Do you need to see a counselor to deal with the trama of losing a game?

Is it assumed that you're just lying about losing the game to get back at the person who won?

snip

Your failing to show how I support rapist. I think what you mean to say is that I trivialize the word rape.

No, we're exactly showing you how you support rapist. You are just refusing to see it or acknowledge it.

In trivializing the word rape, you are supporting rapists.

no I'm refusing to go with the idea that I support rapist, because I don't.

It seems dyre has also shown how what you say doesn't make sense.

Yes, you do. You are refusing to see it, because you don't like the idea of how you're being blind to misusing your male privilege.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Exactly. Not supporting rape victims. So you are supporting rapists.

Sorry, just thought that was a pretty weird line. I'd better go support some rape victims...wouldn't want people to think I support rapists.

Well, when we're talking about influencing culture and society and individual people with the things you say, it really is a binary.

Are you:

A.) Tilting society towards indirectly or directly supporting rape victims and potential rape victims?

Or

B.) Tilting society towards indirectly or directly supporting rapists?

I'm not saying you need to immediately go and volunteer at a battered womens' shelter or you're supporting rapists. I'm just saying that the words you use, and the context in which you use them, is part of a larger cultural paradigm.

So if I lose a game and say "geez, you just slaughtered me," is that tilting society towards supporting murderers? Clearly not, because anyone in his/her right mind would realize that there's a difference between using a jargon synonym for "soundly defeated" and encouraging murder. The same goes for "raping" at a game. It clearly does not mean my gaming character physically raped your gaming character, or that such actions should be supported in any way.

Rape jokes and uses of the word "rape" in gaming are tasteless and stupid, but to say that they support rapists is retarded and shows a serious inability to differentiate connotation with denotation, as well as childish taunts and real world crimes.

We've been over this before. There is such a VAST GULF between murder - a devastating, but relatively rare crime - and rape - a devastating crime that one out of every six women can expect to suffer from in their lifetimes, and that is still in some ways supported by society. Most people never ever think about being murdered. Most women think about how to avoid rape every time they go out.

So even not counting the social stigma against rape victims - not rapists, rape VICTIMS - there's a huge gulf in simply how COMMON it is.

I refer back to cobra_ky's comment: "Your expression is hurtful to rape victims without condemning rapists in any real way. Rapists are the only ones who benefit from the type of statements you're defending."

Let me quote myself, from earlier, but switch things up.

In what way is losing in a video game like being sexually violated? You are comparing something traumatic to something insignificant.

Were you violated because of your loss?

Are you at risk of STDs because of your loss?

Are you at risk of pregnancy because you failed your loss?

Because your fictional character lost, are you assumed to be lying when you tell someone about it?

Because your fictional character lost, will you be forced to testify in court and relive your violation if you want to have any hope of seeing justice done, OR let the person in charge of your violation get off scott-free?

Are you going to be told that you "deserved it" and you "had it coming" because you lost your videogame?

Is your boyfriend/girlfriend going to break up with you after you lost your game because you're 'dirty'?

Are people going to start calling you 'slut' and 'whore' because you lost your game - people you once called friends?

Do you need to see a counselor to deal with the trama of losing a game?

Is it assumed that you're just lying about losing the game to get back at the person who won?

snip

Your failing to show how I support rapist. I think what you mean to say is that I trivialize the word rape.

No, we're exactly showing you how you support rapist. You are just refusing to see it or acknowledge it.

In trivializing the word rape, you are supporting rapists.

no I'm refusing to go with the idea that I support rapist, because I don't.

It seems dyre has also shown how what you say doesn't make sense.

Yes, you do. You are refusing to see it, because you don't like the idea of how you're being blind to misusing your male privilege.

First off murder is very common deoending on your location.

Second, we've been over this, I pointed out the wholes in your "privilege comment".

 

[DwRedux]

John funk: Thank you for putting into words, what I've so far failed to.

Volf: "cmon man dont whine it was just a little rape, don't worry bout it, nothing serious". But I'll doubt you will ever get it.

 

[dyre]

Exactly. Not supporting rape victims. So you are supporting rapists.

Sorry, just thought that was a pretty weird line. I'd better go support some rape victims...wouldn't want people to think I support rapists.

Well, when we're talking about influencing culture and society and individual people with the things you say, it really is a binary.

Are you:

A.) Tilting society towards indirectly or directly supporting rape victims and potential rape victims?

Or

B.) Tilting society towards indirectly or directly supporting rapists?

I'm not saying you need to immediately go and volunteer at a battered womens' shelter or you're supporting rapists. I'm just saying that the words you use, and the context in which you use them, is part of a larger cultural paradigm.

So if I lose a game and say "geez, you just slaughtered me," is that tilting society towards supporting murderers? Clearly not, because anyone in his/her right mind would realize that there's a difference between using a jargon synonym for "soundly defeated" and encouraging murder. The same goes for "raping" at a game. It clearly does not mean my gaming character physically raped your gaming character, or that such actions should be supported in any way.

Rape jokes and uses of the word "rape" in gaming are tasteless and stupid, but to say that they support rapists is retarded and shows a serious inability to differentiate connotation with denotation, as well as childish taunts and real world crimes.

We've been over this before. There is such a VAST GULF between murder - a devastating, but relatively rare crime - and rape - a devastating crime that one out of every six women can expect to suffer from in their lifetimes, and that is still in some ways supported by society. Most people never ever think about being murdered. Most women think about how to avoid rape every time they go out.

So even not counting the social stigma against rape victims - not rapists, rape VICTIMS - there's a huge gulf in simply how COMMON it is.

I refer back to cobra_ky's comment: "Your expression is hurtful to rape victims without condemning rapists in any real way. Rapists are the only ones who benefit from the type of statements you're defending."

Let me quote myself, from earlier, but switch things up.

In what way is losing in a video game like being sexually violated? You are comparing something traumatic to something insignificant.

Were you violated because of your loss?

Are you at risk of STDs because of your loss?

Are you at risk of pregnancy because you failed your loss?

Because your fictional character lost, are you assumed to be lying when you tell someone about it?

Because your fictional character lost, will you be forced to testify in court and relive your violation if you want to have any hope of seeing justice done, OR let the person in charge of your violation get off scott-free?

Are you going to be told that you "deserved it" and you "had it coming" because you lost your videogame?

Is your boyfriend/girlfriend going to break up with you after you lost your game because you're 'dirty'?

Are people going to start calling you 'slut' and 'whore' because you lost your game - people you once called friends?

Do you need to see a counselor to deal with the trama of losing a game?

Is it assumed that you're just lying about losing the game to get back at the person who won?

Err, yes, that's a difference between rape and murder, but it's not a relevant difference. We're talking about murder and using rape in a game supporting more murder or rape in society. Remember, my argument is that (in the context of gaming) any moron understands that "I murdered you" has nothing to do with a desire to murder IRL and in no way supports such action, and said moron also understands that "I raped you" has nothing to do with a desire to rape IRL and in no way supports such action. In fact, I would argue that there is a lot more societal support for murder (especially the positive view of vigilantism) than societal support for rape (there really isn't any societal support for rape). Thus, your counterargument is not relevant to my own.

cobra_ky's argument if unfortunately flawed. "Your expression is hurtful to rape victims without condemning rapists in any real way" indicates that the expression provides negative utility towards rape victims while creating neither a loss nor gain in utility in rapists. It does not follow that a statement that creates neither a loss nor gain in utility suddenly creates a gain in utility in rapists.

As for your question sheet, I don't really have to answer that. I've never used the word "rape" unless I was talking about rape in a real world context, and I've never joked about it. I voluntarily refrain from using the word rape because it is potentially hurtful and offensive to people. However, I still oppose the claim that saying "rape" promotes rape. Saying "rape" in a gaming context is stupid and offensive, but as I've argued earlier, it in no way promotes rape.

 

[John Funk]

First off murder is very common deoending on your location.

Second, we've been over this, I pointed out the wholes in your "privilege comment".

And rape is probably more common in the same location.

And no, you didn't. You think you did because you don't understand what privilege means in this context.

Err, yes, that's a difference between rape and murder, but it's not a relevant difference. We're talking about murder and using rape in a game supporting more murder or rape in society. Remember, my argument is that (in the context of gaming) any moron understands that "I murdered you" has nothing to do with a desire to murder IRL and in no way supports such action, and said moron also understands that "I raped you" has nothing to do with a desire to rape IRL and in no way supports such action. In fact, I would argue that there is a lot more societal support for murder (especially the positive view of vigilantism) than societal support for rape (there really isn't any societal support for rape). Thus, your counterargument is not relevant to my own.

cobra_ky's argument if unfortunately flawed. "Your expression is hurtful to rape victims without condemning rapists in any real way" indicates that the expression provides negative utility towards rape victims while creating neither a loss nor gain in utility in rapists. It does not follow that a statement that creates neither a loss nor gain in utility suddenly creates a gain in utility in rapists.

As for your question sheet, I don't really have to answer that. I've never used the word "rape" unless I was talking about rape in a real world context, and I've never joked about it. I voluntarily refrain from using the word rape because it is potentially hurtful and offensive to people. However, I still oppose the claim that saying "rape" promotes rape. Saying "rape" in a gaming context is stupid and offensive, but as I've argued earlier, it in no way promotes rape.

Society does support rape in that it's very negative towards rape victims. ("Oh, she was asking for it." "What a lying slut, he'd NEVER do that." "She shouldn't have been drinking, she should have known what would happen," etc.) There is a TON of victim-blaming re: rape. When was the last time you heard anyone said "Oh, s/he deserved it." when they were murdered?

Your statement is coming from a misunderstanding of rape culture. In games, generally "beat" does include some kind of violence. "I murdered you," then, isn't usually too... out of line with what actually happened in the game. (Also, when was the last time you've heard MURDERED!! shouted out in a game of Battlefield or COD or League of Legends? It's always RAPED!!!) "Rape" has nothing to do with... anything. It is entirely dissimilar.

It is not neutral towards rape victims. It is negative towards rape victims, as it is trivializing what happened to them. As something negative towards rape victims, it is consequently positive towards rapists, whether or not it is intended thusly. If something is negative towards rape victims, it promotes rape.