The Big Picture: Off Target - Don't Censor Me Part 2

[Dizchu]

I just hope this doesn't become the inspiration for copycat petitions.

It's not quite on the same level as hanging around abortion clinics with huge photos of aborted fetuses but it's the same general idea. "You are doing something I disagree with despite the fact that you have the right to do it, therefore you should be harassed and vilified".

I hope people get the idea that pressuring retailers to withdraw certain media just because YOU have an issue with it is a shitty thing to do. I think some of the latter Call of Duty games are pro-American, war-glamorising bullshit but you don't see me making petitions to get them taken off shelves.

Why do people have this horrid sense of entitlement? "You can't depict the prophet Muhammed because I say so", "you can't poke fun at the bible because it is insensitive", "you can't stock this game because a completely optional, minimal part of the game involves something morally reprehensible".

 

[sumanoskae]

You know, whenever someone brings up the hookers in GTA as a symbol for the mistreatment of women, I can't help but be disappointed. What, exactly, is this "Mechanic" that everybody is referring to? Are we arguing that it's offensive that you are able to kill prostitutes? As opposed to prostitutes being the only NPC's you CAN'T kill? Putting up arbitrary invisible walls is just bad fucking design, especially in an open world.

The game doesn't treat the sex workers any differently than it treats the other pedestrians. If you want to argue that you are encouraged to kill hookers so that you can get your money back, I would remind you that you can do the exact same thing to any other NPC from whom you can buy service. The hookers in the game aren't even guilty of unrealistic design; in fact the majority of characters from the last two GTA games look like regular people.

There are plenty of examples of sexism in video games, but I fail to see how this qualifies as one.

 

[SNCommand]

Bob didn't seem all too pleased though with the developers of Tekken 7 self censoring themselves because private pressure groups voiced their disgust over a specific character

I think people have to realize that there's government censorship, and then there's censorship enacted by private organization or individuals, for example a lot of companies self censor themselves, either to pass government or consumer standards

 

[endtherapture]

The irony of Bob of all people complaining about a "persecution complex" is absolutely hilarious. Guy has the biggest victim complex I've ever seen with his stupid Videogame Overthinker persona and hatred of jocks from school 20 years on.

In addition, let's say Target blocked the selling something that Bob liked. Such as...The Avengers, or a comic book, or Anita Sarkeesian. I'm pretty sure he'd be the first person to cry "censorship" in that case. He just reaches ever higher levels of hypocrisy week on week, I'm surprised the site can even employ him at this point.

 

[InfernalPaladin]

Aussie here, I had pretty much the same sentiments. Target and K-Mart are only reducing their own profits.

What I disagreed with about the whole incident was the fact that a small online petition was able to gain so much traction and actually make the companies change their behaviour. This sets a dangerous precedent for other stores and other media items - especially since it's in Australia, which is already in a precarious position censorship-wise for videogames.

Also, I disliked the general attitude Bob took in his video. The offhand remark where he called people that were concerned about censorship "kids" struck me as a little immature and unprofessional. If this is the way Bob treats all his viewers then I don't think i'm missing much by not watching his shows.

 

[Dizchu]

You can bet that it will. Just read the original ( change.org petition to ban gta V )
(that google search should take you there)

One of the last lines shows that they're using it to set precedent

I looked it up and read the comments.

It actually seems more apparent that the people upset at this are Jack Thompson-esque right-wingers rather than feminists.

The comments indicated a hysterical (our society's crumbling and crime is on the rise) sentiment not uncommon for conservative types.

It's quite depressing actually.

Also, I disliked the general attitude Bob took in his video. The offhand remark where he called people that were concerned about censorship "kids" struck me as a little immature and unprofessional. If this is the way Bob treats all his viewers then I don't think i'm missing much by not watching his shows.

That's Bob Chipman's general shtick to be honest. Now that Jim Sterling's gone I think he's feeling obligated to increase his cynicism and condescension to fill that void. Even when I liked his videos, he never seemed like a guy I'd like to talk to in person.

 

[JMac85]

You can have sex with prostitues and kill them to get their money back.... because? Because this is GTA and that has been in GTA since GTA3, there is no narative or systemic justification, it's just there.... And it's kinda fucked up.

You can have sex with prostitutes because it's an open world sandbox crime simulator. Prostitutes roaming the streets are something that logically makes sense to see in a shady neighborhood. You can also do other inconsequential things to the plot like get drunk and play darts. Killing them to get your money back is an unrelated game mechanic wherein every NPC can be killed and drop money players have found an exploit for that Rockstar didn't feel the need to patch away, like my Elder Scrolls example where you can pickpocket back the money you spend on a skill trainer, or the myriad of other immersion-breaking exploits found in Bethesda games.

 

[UFriday]

I just wanna say...

Whenever I solicited a prostitute to give me a blowjob in GTA5, I let her walk away with her hard earned money without any fuss.

That's all. I have nothing of value to contribute to this utterly valueless debate. I just saw an entertaining opportunity to say those words and still somehow emerge as looking sane and level-headed in my surroundings.

I just wanna say that your profile picture really matches with that comment. Sounds exactly like something Wash would say


With regards to the topic, ech, most people have already said what I would've said.

I would like to mention though that the treatment of hookers in the GTA series just matches up with the viciously brutal treatment it has of damn near everyone, including the main characters (The only vaguely redeemable characters were Nico and CJ, and even they had problems). This is especially ramped up with the characters of GTA 5: I'm kinda having difficulty thinking of any truly decent person in the game.

I wouldn't really say this is a Rockstar problem: I remember being pleasantly charmed when as part of atmospheric dialogue, John Marston politely turned down a prostitute on account of him being a married man. In other words, don't expect a game series famous for its brutal insanity to suddenly attempt at remaking Crash or something.

So erm, yeah. That's my two cents.

 

[Something Amyss]

Again, I haven't played V yet. Maybe that lie was pointed out by newbies who only started playing now?

If you haven't played it, how would you know it's true?

I did try this last night while I was waiting on my friends to get online, and apparently it is true. I picked up a prostitute with like 3/4 health, procured her "services," and when she left the car I had full health. So I guess it's confirmed. I could even video capture it, but it didn't seem like a big enough deal.

 

[EssThree]

Someone related to the petition suggested they were going to try to go higher up the food chain to the regulatory board to get the game banned outright. So, yeah, they're trying to commit censorship.

I think Bob needs to bone up on the ratings hell we've been in here for the past decade or so with games essentially being banned.

 

[m19]

In Skyrim you can axe murder women, take their souls, pile their corpses in the town square. Rob them. Undress them. And oh yeah, if you have a certain ring you can eat their corpses to restore your health.

But sure, GTA is the worst...

 

[MolotoK]

Last time I checked the GTA series never depicts the exploitation of sex workers in a positive light. In fact, even though it lets the player engage in these activities, it always puts a negative spin on it. The "servies" are depicted as unfulfilling, the women are depicted as unhappy with their situation, the strip club owners are crooks, even the main character has some negative comments about the whole affair (at least in GTA IV).

You'd have to twist a lot of facts to make an argument that the GTA series endorses violence or going on shooting sprees. You'd be outright lying if you argued that the GTA series endorses exploitative sex work. It does the opposite.

Please stfu about video games if you don't understand their message.

 

[Irregular Dice]

I think if, in the next Grand Theft Auto, they dialed back the prostitutes, or even got rid of them entirely, it would make absolutely no difference to me in either a gameplay or a narrative capacity. But it might make some people feel less uncomfortable or remove that discomfort entirely.

So go right ahead Rockstar. You have my permission to create a more welcoming and friendly environment for everyone.

But isn't GTA a series about the criminal underworld? The whole point of the game is that the world(or city) is horrible to the point of satire. In Vice city alone, there's the mafia, gang warfare, criminal filmmakers, coke as hidden collectibles and drug delivery in ice cream trucks. Prostitutes have been there since GTA 3. Are they part of the narrative? no but there are part of the corrupt sleazy city image that has always been in the GTA games.

Although I do understand the discomfort, I myself am but, in a game about crime, drugs, money and power, it's not out of place.
I'm not a big fan of GTA, I just drive around for hours listening to the radio.