The Big Picture: Off the Charts
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Yeah it does translate very well to a movie as the plot is very concise and easy to convey in an hour and a half, and the action/characters will be enough to carry it along nicelymireko said:
Mario would be terrible movies as Mario is about platforming not story, Which is why the Mario movie was so different and a total bastard child of the games. Although still stupidly entertaining if you expect a B-Movie. Zelda has a little more hope as the story and adventure could translate a little better but I think to do it properly one would have to do Ocarina of Time and break it up into a trilogy of movies, while running the risk of a total flop on the first two movies. Essentially I think Zelda needs to be longer than a given hour and a half or even 2 and a half hour movie, but then parts would feel like filler, so it is a very fragile project.
MGS should never have a movie simply because of its own nature. And yeah the plot is hugely taxing when trying to make any sense of it.
Dont worry, they are ALL from the other side of the world.kael013 said:
And how in the hell can Super Mario be a good movie? Im sorry but I fell like I am being trolled when I watch this.
"An Uncharted movie?" I thought to myself the first second I heard about it. "But, Uncharted practically already is a movie. It's a fun game that tries to feel like a film as much as possible, their TV spots boast that fact even. Making a movie on that is like trying to emulate the distinct flavor of imitation crab with real crab meat."
But if what you say is true; if the movie is going to be something much different, just with the word "Uncharted" slapped on, then I'm somewhat optimistic.
But if what you say is true; if the movie is going to be something much different, just with the word "Uncharted" slapped on, then I'm somewhat optimistic.
Yeah, I think Bay's been unfairly maligned for the Transformers movies myself. Looking at the old show, it's equally as stupid. And yet as you say, despite that, it's somehow above criticism for some reason. The Bay movies are big, dumb fun, but yet I can watch them as an adult (at least the first one) and not feel guilty because of it. I can't quite put a reason why, but somehow the way it was done made it acceptable for me to enjoy them, whereas I'd be embarrassed if someone caught me watching the old cartoon.Gunnyboy said:
And like it or not, Bay to me really was a pretty good choice. Ask yourself, what's the main draw of Transformers? If you answered, "Giant robots beating the hell out of each other and shit blowing up," then you'd be right. Since Bay's forte is blowing shit up, he was the right person for the job. Some directors are just good fits for the material whether anyone agrees with it or not.
Another example: I know a lot of people were upset also when the news was announced that Darren Aronofsky wasn't going to direct the next Wolverine movie. Personally, I was okay with that, as while the thought of him directing it was intriguing, I just didn't think he was ultimately right for the material anyway. Like Ang Lee with Hulk, he probably would have tried to make it into something that it wasn't (I kept thinking of Black Swan or The Wrestler with a healing factor). And while I know that there are other directors out there who could do much worse (*cough*Ratner*cough*), I also think there are plenty of other directors that would be better qualified to make the kind of Wolverine movie people would really want.
As to the main topic, I haven't played either Uncharted game, but since I bought a PS3 recently and have been looking for some good games, after this, I'm thinking maybe I should.
Key distinction: Uncharted has a good storyline. It has an predictable plot. Story and plot are two different things. Story is what happens. Plot is how the story unfolds. Once I knew the story, "A lone man goes one a world spanning journey to find an ancestors treasure," I knew where the plot elements were going to show up. I played the game like it were a movie and I predicted every single plot point that came up.Luykus said:
If you think that All JRPGs are like a Final Fantasy game, then yes your derisive chiding is correct. In general, Final Fantasy stories try to be character driven, but you have a sense that these character have no control over their lives. That feeling exists in all of the games in the series, with Final Fantasy 13 is the most blatant of all.
However, if you expand your definition to include other games, then you will find better stories in them. Radiata Stories, Valkyrie Profile, Persona 3 and 4, Demon's Souls, Disgaea, Rogue Galaxy, Odinsphere, Shin Megami Tensei in general. All of those games have better stories than Final Fantasy series in general. Plus the plots are revealed in a more gradual manner.
As for Bioware having good stories, well, since the told the same story 10 times, they are bound to have perfected it by now. Bioware makes the same story over and over again. It does not matter if you are in a Tolkeinesque Fantasy, Deep Space, Mythic China, Star Wars Universe, or on Faerun because the plot is the same.
"You are a hero with a mysterious past. Sometimes you have amnesia, other times you were just abandoned as a child. Soon after you start your adventuring life, you are swept into a conspiracy that have dire ramifications for ______________. The evil that you need to face is so vile that you need to stop it. But along the way, you have to face moral decisions that will affect the outcome of the game slightly."
That the plot of all Bioware games in a nutshell.
I'm sorry, but I don't think I can take someone's opinion on potentially good video game adapted movies seriously if one of his potential "great" stories would be those derived from Super Mario. Seriously... what the hell? There is no story. Why would that be a good idea?
People make fun of Uncharted for it's story, and while I've only played the second, I will say it has some of the best fleshed out characters in a video game I've ever played. That is to say, it actually has fleshed out characters. Seriously, what makes an Indiana Jone's story better? I can't honestly answer that question, as I've only seen the first and that was an EXTREMELY long time ago. But, I liked the story for Uncharted. It's not complex or anything, but it's fun and it gives a chance for the characters to have some witty or funny dialogue. Plus,I always love the idea of going to lost or fictional cities (like Elderado or Atlantis).
People make fun of Uncharted for it's story, and while I've only played the second, I will say it has some of the best fleshed out characters in a video game I've ever played. That is to say, it actually has fleshed out characters. Seriously, what makes an Indiana Jone's story better? I can't honestly answer that question, as I've only seen the first and that was an EXTREMELY long time ago. But, I liked the story for Uncharted. It's not complex or anything, but it's fun and it gives a chance for the characters to have some witty or funny dialogue. Plus,I always love the idea of going to lost or fictional cities (like Elderado or Atlantis).
+1 for "I'm just peeved that it's not Mal (Nathan Fillion)" He just has the perfect blend of wise ass and bad ass.
And while I'm sure Marky Mark will do a fine job, Funky Bunch or no, he'll just be a second best option.
As for the movie, I'm certainly willing to give it the benefit of the doubt. As Bob said, this is the first video game adaptation that's being led by someone who actually knows wtf they're doing (as far as I know.)
And while I'm sure Marky Mark will do a fine job, Funky Bunch or no, he'll just be a second best option.
As for the movie, I'm certainly willing to give it the benefit of the doubt. As Bob said, this is the first video game adaptation that's being led by someone who actually knows wtf they're doing (as far as I know.)
Good vid. Better than the PC one prior to this.
The point that he made that I'd like to emphasize is that games are games, and Movies are movies. Movies, for the most part exist as s story telling medium and nothing else, whereas Games are not. Games CAN be a story telling medium, but it is not by any means necessary for it to be good or fun.
Video games are actually a lot more like Music than they are movies. A story in a video game is as necessary as lyrics in a song. It gives the game meaning, but it is not necessary for the game to be artistic.
The point that he made that I'd like to emphasize is that games are games, and Movies are movies. Movies, for the most part exist as s story telling medium and nothing else, whereas Games are not. Games CAN be a story telling medium, but it is not by any means necessary for it to be good or fun.
Video games are actually a lot more like Music than they are movies. A story in a video game is as necessary as lyrics in a song. It gives the game meaning, but it is not necessary for the game to be artistic.
Im a big time mario fan and I can't tell you how long I've wanted a CGI movie trilogy writen by nintendo themselves.
Addressing the hate for the Uncharted series and storyline...
What really grabs me about Uncharted's story is not so much its premise, characters, or dialogue. What really grabs me is the structure. Particularly in the second installment, the game makes a point of putting the player in the middle of massive, dramatic, over-the-top, action-packed set pieces that force the player to respond to real-time complications on a genuinely threatening scale, much like an action movie does to its protagonist.
I've been talking about adapting story principles to games for a [http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/AlexanderKerezman/20100426/5018/Dramatic_Gameplay.php] long [http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/AlexanderKerezman/20100430/5019/Structure_or_AI_Director.php] time [http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/AlexanderKerezman/20100524/5231/Storytelling_Climax_is_God.php] now [http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/AlexanderKerezman/20101013/6199/Emotion_Horror_and_quotThe_Gapquot.php], and Uncharted does a pretty darn good job of making it feel like a movie experience. Just as a movie changes the stakes of the moment in both the short term and long term, the Uncharted game changes the stakes for the player and succeeds in making those complications flow into the gameplay. There's one moment in the game where the player is fighting enemies in a collapsing building, and the player must fight to jump out at the last second without breaking out of gameplay. In this way, tension builds up and releases in an epic moment of player-controlled action. Its pacing and its dramatic set pieces throughout the game really work for me.
With moments like that, I can tolerate a so-average premise and unsympathetic characters. What the game does to me as a player trumps that entirely. I even come to like the characters I'm interacting with.
What really grabs me about Uncharted's story is not so much its premise, characters, or dialogue. What really grabs me is the structure. Particularly in the second installment, the game makes a point of putting the player in the middle of massive, dramatic, over-the-top, action-packed set pieces that force the player to respond to real-time complications on a genuinely threatening scale, much like an action movie does to its protagonist.
I've been talking about adapting story principles to games for a [http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/AlexanderKerezman/20100426/5018/Dramatic_Gameplay.php] long [http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/AlexanderKerezman/20100430/5019/Structure_or_AI_Director.php] time [http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/AlexanderKerezman/20100524/5231/Storytelling_Climax_is_God.php] now [http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/AlexanderKerezman/20101013/6199/Emotion_Horror_and_quotThe_Gapquot.php], and Uncharted does a pretty darn good job of making it feel like a movie experience. Just as a movie changes the stakes of the moment in both the short term and long term, the Uncharted game changes the stakes for the player and succeeds in making those complications flow into the gameplay. There's one moment in the game where the player is fighting enemies in a collapsing building, and the player must fight to jump out at the last second without breaking out of gameplay. In this way, tension builds up and releases in an epic moment of player-controlled action. Its pacing and its dramatic set pieces throughout the game really work for me.
With moments like that, I can tolerate a so-average premise and unsympathetic characters. What the game does to me as a player trumps that entirely. I even come to like the characters I'm interacting with.
Name five eastern games that people will generally agree have a great story. The reason we use the same examples is because not everyone will agree on inFamous, and those who don't will ignore the post based on one example that didn't resonate with them.darthotaku said:
As for eastern games, the best examples that come to mind with great story are the Persona games and Legend of Zelda games, and most people wouldn't even agree on that.
Citation needed. You generalized all western games, when a vast amount of them are actually trying to affect their audience. Video games have approximately the same amount of drivel no matter what country you get them from.darthotaku said:
I cannot comment on Revenge of the Fallen because I have not seen it. I can comment on the Nostalgia Goggles blinding everyone to the reality of the Transformers.Ian S said:
The show from the 80s sucked because most cartoons from the 80 suck. Many of them existed to whore themselves out to young kids. You can count on every show unraveling along the same story lines: Decepticons are looking for sources of energon, the super macguffin for the series. The Autobots catch word of this and try to stop them. The Autobots and the Decepticons use the battles to reveal the new character suited for completing that task, who may or may not appear again depending on how popular they are. Somehow the good guys win and the bad guys retreat. Then there is a bullshit moral at the end, similar to the "Now you Know stuff" from GI Joe.
What people often do is confuse the old Television series with two things. Best Wars and the Marvel Comic.
Beast Wars took the established characters and turned them into animal machine hybrids, but it also told an interesting story with complex character development and in a way that if you missed one episode, you were not lost. Having the focus on 10 characters (later 18) instead of 80 allows you to have better stories, better development and logical conclusions to things.
As for the comic, they do not remember the American made one, but the British. The American comic iteration existed solely to whore the franchise out and had plots just as nonsensical as the show. In the British comic, you have great story arcs, nice character development, and sense of menace from the Bad guys. It was from the Marvel comic series where you learn about the war on cybertron, how Optimus is as a leader (effective, but learning), that Megatron is truly a badass who the other decepticons follow out of fear more than anything else. You never got that sense from the 80's series.
I'm surprised Bob didn't mention the Prince of Persia movie. I know it still wasn't the greatest movie ever, but it's debatably the first ever half-decent game movie. I think it's a good indication that we're finally starting to step out of the primordial sea into a potentially bright future of game movies.
And even more than that, look at comic book movies. They started out horrible too. But even if you deny that the Spider Man and Iron Man (and even some of the other recent movies) were at least "OK", friggin' Dark Knight man!
And even more than that, look at comic book movies. They started out horrible too. But even if you deny that the Spider Man and Iron Man (and even some of the other recent movies) were at least "OK", friggin' Dark Knight man!
It was terrible. Unwatchably terrible. There was no chemistry, the adventure was off, about halfway through I realized I didn't care for any characters in it. But that's just my opinion.Tempest13 said:
Not a fan of anime either, so that tells you something about me.
"The good for a western developer" comment has really gotten a lot of people riled up yet although I'm not suprised that Bob would come to such a conclusion. JRPG's are generally a lot more focused on the overarching plot usually with one or two subplots (Usually a romance between two protaginists) where as WRPG's are a lot more interactive, using a basic story to really let the player focus on the universe and characters which inhabit it. (Half Life 2 is a really basic example of this, the overarching plot is rather basic (Aliens bad. Kill them.) but it's all the little hiddden snipits of plot and the characters that really ties it together.) Another example of this idea is KOTOR 2 (Which is admitadly one of my favourtie game plots) overtly, the plot is pretty scant especially since the game was pushed out before it was ready but the characters (Kreia being imo the best game character in history) and a lot of the plot was hidden within the massive tress of dialogue with various characters.
Sorry, I kinda lost my point in describing the main difference in what I see as the major differences between JRPG's and WRPG's but my overall point was that JRPG's are more like movies or books, being a lot less interactive and generally giving the player less if any control over the overarching plot. This allows the developer to give a more blatant plot as it never changes but can be irritating for players who are wondering why the characters didn't do x or why x happened at all (E.G. FF8's entire damn plot). WRPG's on the other hand are more vast and interactive which gives the player more control but since the developers have to focus on all the different choice the player can make, the plot becomes more diluted in comparison to JRPG's.
Sorry, I kinda lost my point in describing the main difference in what I see as the major differences between JRPG's and WRPG's but my overall point was that JRPG's are more like movies or books, being a lot less interactive and generally giving the player less if any control over the overarching plot. This allows the developer to give a more blatant plot as it never changes but can be irritating for players who are wondering why the characters didn't do x or why x happened at all (E.G. FF8's entire damn plot). WRPG's on the other hand are more vast and interactive which gives the player more control but since the developers have to focus on all the different choice the player can make, the plot becomes more diluted in comparison to JRPG's.
I found the old GI Joe series deceptively deep. Though it was purely for marketing reasons.malestrithe said:
To sell the most toys, and to make sure kids like their toys, Hasbro required their cartoons to give each character (i.e. each action figure) their own episode. The show couldn't play favorites and so they had to come up with interesting backstories for every character, hero and villain.
GI Joe ended up with this structure you see today like Lost - every episode focused on a different character, making them compelling in their own way. In my case, my favorite character was Dusty, and he got a two parter, of which he was even Court Marshalled. I was upset for years because I never saw Part 2 as my sister's week forced me to watch Jem
Shows like Heroes, Lost, Battlestar Galactica, and even Babylon 5 borrowed this structure - and this is where it's from. JMS references this in his "How to write for TV" book.