Then you can be relieved that the Bioshock movie was cancelled a while back.Mooshman said:
They couldn't secure an R rating for it, so the director called it quits.
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They couldn't secure an R rating for it, so the director called it quits.
Two things.bahumat42 said:
1. Yeah, Three Kings is awesome. More people need to see that film.
2. Origin (RIP), BioWare, Black Isle (now Obsidian.. sort of), Troika (RIP), even Lucas Arts have been telling great stories for a long time in the West. It would be worth cutting him slack if he wasn't completely dismissing them for no clear reason.
Being a game critic without having played any games by any of the companies above would be as weird as being a film critic without ever having seen anything by Coppola or Scorsese.
I'm not saying he has to be a game critic, but he should at least know what he's talking about before making a video about it.
I'll never understand how Bob can be so insightful and intelligent about some things, and so willfully obtuse about others.
An example of the former: when he said that games are games and films are films, and it's unreasonable to expect one to be the other. Another: when he pointed out why the live action Transformers movies sucked, and that it isn't because the story's different.
An example of the latter: stating Uncharted has a pretty good story for a Western game. I get the guy likes Japanese games more, and as someone whose favorite games tend to be Japanese, I can appreciate that, but to so abrasively write off Western game storylines is to imply a) they're all shallow (which is untrue) and b) most Japanese game storytelling is stellar (which is, at best, laughable).
The REAL conflict between Bob's film reviewer and Bob's game commentator is that, eventually, one or the other is going to win the tug of war over his ability to reason. I really hope it's FilmBob, because there are huge problems with Japanese game design and storytelling that GameBob will never acknowledge.
An example of the former: when he said that games are games and films are films, and it's unreasonable to expect one to be the other. Another: when he pointed out why the live action Transformers movies sucked, and that it isn't because the story's different.
An example of the latter: stating Uncharted has a pretty good story for a Western game. I get the guy likes Japanese games more, and as someone whose favorite games tend to be Japanese, I can appreciate that, but to so abrasively write off Western game storylines is to imply a) they're all shallow (which is untrue) and b) most Japanese game storytelling is stellar (which is, at best, laughable).
The REAL conflict between Bob's film reviewer and Bob's game commentator is that, eventually, one or the other is going to win the tug of war over his ability to reason. I really hope it's FilmBob, because there are huge problems with Japanese game design and storytelling that GameBob will never acknowledge.
Moviebob, are you really downing a game's story you haven't even played? You're saying it comes off as a second rate national treasure and whatnot, but you haven't even played either all the way to completion? You don't own a ps3? You just (implying here) youtube'd the cutscenes? Yet you know enough to put down the story in your video? I'm not saying it is or is not worth downing, all I'm pointing out is that you're REALLY not giving yourself any credibility here. Not very professional there Moviebob...
For Legend of Zelda for some reason I see Peter Jackson filming it. Because it seems Peter Jackson is the only person who gets medieval era based films or "Fantasy" films not in general just the medieval aspect. Lord of the Rings was well done the extended is even better because he pulls Alfred Hitchcock which is kinda fun watching the movie because you can have fun looking for him in all three without really missing anything in the movie.
Now I know his King Kong wasn't all that amazing I mean Jack Black as the kinda Antagonist did seem kinda strange and all. But that was King Kong...CG Giant Ape and Dinosaurs. Jackson seems to get Swords, Shields, Bows, Arrows, Wizards, Elves, and Dark Creatures of the Abyss. Now all Jackson needs to find is the right cast. And he himself can be in it as a cameo of the guy in Orcarina of Time who sells stuff at the Bizarre. Totally imo I'm sure many disagree with me upon reading this but...just throwing my 2 cents out there.
OT: It's Hollyweird. And every week you have MOVIES ARE WEIRD! section on Fridays.
Now I know his King Kong wasn't all that amazing I mean Jack Black as the kinda Antagonist did seem kinda strange and all. But that was King Kong...CG Giant Ape and Dinosaurs. Jackson seems to get Swords, Shields, Bows, Arrows, Wizards, Elves, and Dark Creatures of the Abyss. Now all Jackson needs to find is the right cast. And he himself can be in it as a cameo of the guy in Orcarina of Time who sells stuff at the Bizarre. Totally imo I'm sure many disagree with me upon reading this but...just throwing my 2 cents out there.
OT: It's Hollyweird. And every week you have MOVIES ARE WEIRD! section on Fridays.
I couldn't agree more. the fact that they wanted Nathan Fillion in the role made me lose all faith in the nerds trying to bash this out of existence. shut up.
It was written by a Hollywood writer though, that's something to keep in mind I think.Father Time said:
The more I watch Bob the more I realize he probably just doesn't know much about gaming and should stick to the movies. Like another certain movie critic that doesn't know jack about games which stirred a lot of controversy...
Anyway, I agree with Twilight_guy and I've always thought we had this mutual understanding that films and games are too different/the directors of each medium have methods too differently.
Games based on movies suck and movies based on games suck.
Even for an adaptation that almost always loses something of the original without creating something new and intriguing. In the majority of cases. In my opinion. *Puts on silly hat*
I also agree the bit about "Western developers" was completely stupid for reasons already stated.
Anyway, I agree with Twilight_guy and I've always thought we had this mutual understanding that films and games are too different/the directors of each medium have methods too differently.
Games based on movies suck and movies based on games suck.
Even for an adaptation that almost always loses something of the original without creating something new and intriguing. In the majority of cases. In my opinion. *Puts on silly hat*
I also agree the bit about "Western developers" was completely stupid for reasons already stated.
It's not trolling to point out that western-developed games, on the whole, have incredibly simplistic and generally shallow stories.Zhukov said:
Bioshock has an interesting story, mainly laudable for the vast space it puts out there for the player to actually think about the story and the circumstances beyond the action taking place right in front of your face. I remember long after I'd finished the game having a discussion with someone about the existence on the Little Sisters and various details around them (why they decided to go with all girls instead of boys or a mix, why they all looked the same, where were the rest of their families, etc. - all unnecessary to gameplay but fascinating for story details). The existence of Bioshock does not make all the very-not-Bioshock games suddenly have improved stories. It, like Uncharted (presumably, given I haven't played Uncharted), is better than the majority.
Mass Effect - much more simplistic story than the above, but with more player interaction options than Bioshock's (not that this necessarily adds depth, only options, and those options are limited to "be a good guy," "be a dick," and "let me get back to shooting things"). Again, an example of a game above the average in terms of story, though in this case it's not exactly a remarkable story. It's good by comparison to most games, not so much on its own merits.
Red Dead Redemption - no idea, haven't played it. Same for Dragon Age.
Halo...wait, what? Who suggested Halo for an example of great storytelling in games and what was he smoking at the time? Halo's story was Marathon-light, at best, with self-satirizing lampoon moments thrown in pointing out how one-note and predictable it was. It's fun, but the story's fairly token.
Half-life is carried by its characters, which is okay since they're pretty nicely developed, especially by game standards, and the atmosphere throughout is right on key to keep things tight and rolling. The story is largely gameplay, which is how story works best in a game. This one I'd put up close to Bioshock.
I could go on, but it'd get even spammier. Point being, the games we remember for having better-than-expected stories? That's why we remember them: they're better than expected. The fact that we can cherry-pick a list like this is basically the point of the statement that's got everyone so up in arms.
I'm not going to try arguing non-Western games have better stories on average because, who'd have guessed it, I live out west. I'm not intimately familiar with the alternatives. That said, I do know there's a whole genre with the word "novel" in it that probably relies pretty heavily on story...
tl;dr - Most games have a pretty weak story. Western games in particular often focus on action over any story at all.
Edit: not that it matters, but given my position I'm sure someone's going to point it out/ask about it/whatever. The avatar is someone's fanart of Yoruichi; I use it because I like the picture, not because I think Bleach is an example of a great story (lololswords).
That's because there is no quality, low or high, involved in anything Bob does.Eri said:
Also, fuck Three Kings. Seriously, go watch the original when it was called Kelly's Heroes.
Note that while I only quoted the last line of your post, I read the whole thing.Shjade said:
"Weak story" is not the same as "minimal story." Portal has minimal story, and that story, combined with its integration into gameplay, forms a far better whole than any game, Japanese or otherwise, I've ever played. And I've play a lot of games, of varying qualities from both sides of the pond.
Hell, even though I feel Braid is wildly overrated, its narrative does the whole "ambiguous and interpretive" thing better than 99% of Japanese games that try to do the same thing. Seriously, Japanese storytelling (including games) tends to rely on one of two things: ambiguity without a strong narrative basis from which thoughtful speculation can spring (e.g., Masato Kato storylines, Neon Genesis Evangelion) and fanservice (e.g., too many to count, and not every example involves sex).
There are exceptions (e.g., some of the Zeldas, Final Fantasy 6). But nobody tell MovieBob that, as he's busy praising Other M for making Samus three dimensional as though being three dimensional makes a character automatically compelling and well-crafted. Damn those Western games and their not having good storylines. My kingdom for a "rolling eyes" smiley.
Why only the 6? There have been thousands of Western developed video games since the beginning of this medium, so the you can choose from a wide canyon. But your side keep going for the same 6? Are you guys really that lazy and cannot come up with more choices?kael013 said:
Off the top of my head, I can pad out that list to even bigger:
God of War, Ratchet and Clank, Jak and Daxter, Sly Cooper, Grim Fandango, Day of the Tenatacle, Maniac Mansion, Tales of Monkey Island, Plants Vs Zombies, Amnesia: the Dark Descent, Limbo, Flower, A Boy and His Blob, Beyond Good and Evil, and Portal.
For the record, not all games made in the East with good story lines are RPGs:
Shadow of the Colossus, ICO, Silent Hill, Dino Crisis, Clock Tower, Harvest Moon, Fatal Frame, Okami, Legacy of Kain, Devil May Cry, and Castlevania in general, but Lords of Shadow in particular.
If you want to include RPGs, then the list expands exponentially. I am not going to, but I will remind you that the better JRPG stories come from Atlus, Namco Bandai, Natsume and not Square Enix. Square Enix is not the direction the medium is developing into.
I like how the .Hack story transfers beetween book, anime, and game. and that is because they rarly try to transfer the story of one to another medium, instead they just continue the story.
EX: Book > anime > book > four part games (and an anime that game with the games) > books > manga (forget the anime adaptation of book) > book > anime > three part games (continuing strate from the story of the anime)> books > and the current anime!
.Hack dose a good job of going from one medium to the next by just doing the next story, insted of remaking the last story. They did try that one with their manga, but that ended up with fail. it's like if the first RE movie was consiter cannon for the RE games, as it didn't change the overall story of the the first three games, just added a prequel for the first game.
EX: Book > anime > book > four part games (and an anime that game with the games) > books > manga (forget the anime adaptation of book) > book > anime > three part games (continuing strate from the story of the anime)> books > and the current anime!
.Hack dose a good job of going from one medium to the next by just doing the next story, insted of remaking the last story. They did try that one with their manga, but that ended up with fail. it's like if the first RE movie was consiter cannon for the RE games, as it didn't change the overall story of the the first three games, just added a prequel for the first game.
The Transformers movies are everything you can ask for really. Yeah they focus on a human, but so what? The Transformers are involved all the time and there's tons of action. I do think it comes from people romanticizing the cartoon. Like Bay is the devil for having the twins, but they were LESS offensive than an Arab country named CARBOMBYA in the cartoon. (And I say this as someone who hated the 2nd.)
Bay > Russell.
And I'm out
Bay > Russell.
And I'm out