The Big Picture: Remembering the Real Jack Thompson

[PDugna]

You reduced storytelling in games to "The bad guy does something bad..." and then bemoaned how others, as you perceive it, look "too deeply" so to say to find things they believe are sexist. This viewpoint does not allow us to look critically into our media.

I was referring to this

http://youtu.be/5i_RPr9DwMA?t=6m34s
Seeing sexism there is silly. That pimp is a bad guy. Was Anita expecting him to be a perfect gentleman


She brought up the "Dastardly" achievement earlier in the video, and yeah that's sexist, I don't think anyone would argue with that.
But then she goes and ruins it by being stupid.



Everything else you said was so far off base it's not worth responding to.
Except this,

And I'm still not going to respond to it, I'll just let you ruminate on what you said.
Shocking, and you should apologize to literally everyone, including your parents.

Not even close, I'm saying Anita Sarkeesian is sexist.
http://youtu.be/GpDnr2s9yxQ?t=1m34s
Listen to this clip and tell me she's not sexist (Up to 2:15, or fuck if I care watch the whole video)

She's not being sexist. Especially considering that she considers the song to be equally creepy when sung by either gender, just with different connotations. Because there are different contexts and connotations to people when we look at their gender, ethnicity, orientation, etc... When a man is harsh and commanding, he's "the boss". When a woman does so, she's "bossy" or "bitchy". When a white NFL player is aggressive in celebration, he's "pumped". When a black NFL player is aggressive in celebration, he's a "thug".

Regardless of all that, she does not express "bigotry" towards men in that clip, she merely notes that, when looked at a certain way, the song can be expressive of a possesive relationship mentality that is a whole 'nuther topic all together.

Yeah she pretty much in that clip ignores the possibility that the woman could be a creep or a stalker and just goes "Ohh maybe women deserve better" but as soon as a guy sings the song it's always stalkerish and creepy. *bleh* That "woman can do no wrong" bullcrap needs to end in the media the song itself btw is not gender situated it's actually gender neutral. It's made so a person can sing their love for their significant other and enjoy the holidays.

 

[UberPubert]

Anita, on the other hand, is challenging the CONSEQUENCE-FREE SPEECH

Likewise, she now faces the consequences of her own speech, none of which are legally binding or government supported.

Why the concern over silencing critics when no one is actually being censored?

The death threats against Anita can't be shrugged off when she had to cancel a presentation because the threat of a school shooting could've been carried out thanks to how guns weren't banned from the school she was presenting [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/138046-School-Shooting-Threat-Sent-to-USU-about-Anita-Sarkeesian],

False; Anita made the decision to cancel her talk even after being assured the threat the school had received was not credible by the police. Many college campuses allow guns to be carried, typically in states with similar laws. She's been giving talks at length across the country for some times, she knows these laws exist. Refusing to talk at a previously planned presentation because of death threats she has allegedly been receiving this entire time because of a common firearm law she would have undoubtedly encountered before is disingenuous.

and when she was forced to flee her own house after the threats to break in and murder her family proved all to real not to brush off as a sick joke or empty boast [http://www.theverge.com/2014/8/27/6075179/anita-sarkeesian-says-she-was-driven-out-of-house-by-threats].

False; The threat of posting an address of a public figure, or the address of a public figure's family with nothing more than words to back it up is not a credible threat. Considering Anita continues to make public appearances in well-populated spaces to this day, and much of her personal information can be found online through completely legal means with nothing more than her full name, it is laughable to asserts this had any more reason to 'drive Anita from her home' than any other anonymous death threats.

Also? Gamergate is pretty sure they found 'Kevin Dobson'. He was a Brazilian journalist by the name of Mateus Prado Sousa doing it to stir up controversy: http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2j2gun/identity_of_one_of_anita_sarkeesians_harassers/

At the very LEAST, the GamerGate members who DON'T support trying to outright kill Anita just to shut her up should call out any of their members who tried to do so, if only in a "GUYS!! Stop making US look bad!" motive.

GG has no membership, no leader, no organized methodology. It simply is. Trying to call out anonymous users who engage in bad behavior for no other reason than they used the GG hash tag is beyond impractical.

 

[Jumplion]

I was referring to this

http://youtu.be/5i_RPr9DwMA?t=6m34s
Seeing sexism there is silly. That pimp is a bad guy. Was Anita expecting him to be a perfect gentleman

You are being further disengenuous. We're not talking about whether or not a pimp is acting "realistically" in a game. Literally, just three minutes before your quote (3:50);

"Developers regularly utilize the brutilization of women's bodies and especially the bodies of prostitutes as an indicator of how 'harsh', 'cruel', and 'unforgiving' their game worlds are" and they are utilized to "evoke a sexually charged, 'creepy' or 'edgy' environment."

Her point isn't that a pimp shouldn't be hitting people. Her point is that the constant use of women in these sorts of portrayals is lazy and problematic when it is so prevalent and comman among representations in our media.

And we are talking about broad aspects of video games, not individual games. These individual games are being used as examples of the broader issue.

I, Sarkeesian, and many others (including yourself) have stated that the use of these sorts of tropes are in an effort to be "edgy". I'm unsure what is the hullaballo at this point.

And I'm still not going to respond to it, I'll just let you ruminate on what you said.
Shocking, and you should apologize to literally everyone, including your parents.

¯\_(&#12484_/¯

I have no idea what you're going on about. My statement on how having a penis or a vagina or a different mixture of melatonin may affect how people percieve you was fairly well supported by my examples. Her interpretation of the Christmas songs is just that, an interpretation, and as I said not indicative of any "bigotry" towards men. Whether its valid or not, I can certainly see what she's getting at, sure. I asked a fairly studious, and frankly smarter, friend of mine who is far more knowlegable on these sorts of issues/debates and he found nothing wrong with it. So, yeah.

 

[Dizchu]

For everyone claiming that Feminist Frequency is "ruining the gaming industry", I think you're being hyperbolic.

Feminist Frequency causes more damage to feminism than they do to gaming.

---

(I say Feminist Frequency and not Anita Sarkeesian as it is clear that Jonathan McIntosh is the actual lunatic of the two, Anita's just the shield he uses)

 

[Dizchu]

At the very LEAST, the GamerGate members who DON'T support trying to outright kill Anita just to shut her up should call out any of their members who tried to do so, if only in a "GUYS!! Stop making US look bad!" motive.

1. They do, there is actually a "Gamergate Harassment Watch" that actively seeks out people that make threats before they can get publicity.

2. In Anita Sarkeesian's case, members of Gamergate have actually tracked down at least one of the people that sent her death threats.

3. Gamergate has recently redirected their attacks towards Jonathan McIntosh rather than Anita because they see him as a much more hypocritical and unreasonable voice in modern feminism. The term "Full McIntosh" has recently become a meme to refer to instances of extreme delusion on the part of certain feminists and game journalists.

Gamergate is unfortunately suffering from a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" type scenario at the moment. It doesn't matter how many good things they do, it's the actions of trolls that will dictate how they are portrayed in mainstream media. It's like Occupy Wall Street all over again.

What next? Accusing people that leaked info regarding collusion and unethical behaviour of treason?

 

[Something Amyss]

For everyone claiming that Feminist Frequency is "ruining the gaming industry", I think you're being hyperbolic.

Feminist Frequency causes more damage to feminism than they do to gaming.

Why would it damage either? What happened to your stance on "personal responsibility?"

You were outraged that people would hold the actions of individuals against gamergate. Why is this so different?

 

[Something Amyss]

2. In Anita Sarkeesian's case, members of Gamergate have actually tracked down at least one of the people that sent her death threats.

Well, no. They claimed to have found them based on some rather tenuous evidence and have declared that a victory.

These constant zealous charges are ridiculous, and should not be held up as a positive example.

 

[Dizchu]

Why would it damage either? What happened to your stance on "personal responsibility?"

You were outraged that people would hold the actions of individuals against gamergate. Why is this so different?

I'm not claiming that Feminist Frequency is sabotaging feminism, rather they do more damage to the image of feminism than to the image of gaming.

I don't believe they're doing it maliciously of course. I think they are at least moderately sincere when it comes to the views they express. However I can't help but lament the fact that whenever I sympathise with feminist causes or identify patriarchal double-standards as serious issues, I get lumped in with those that believe patriarchy is the Fratboy Illuminati.

Feminist Frequency are a microcosm of Tumblr feminism. While lately I've tried as much as possible to distance "my feminism" from that of McIntosh et al., they are regarded as the easy target to attack the entirety of feminism. It's actually very similar to my concern about Gamergate. The views of a few people are misinterpreted as the views of the entire group. The bigots in Gamergate are not "the final boss of Gamergate" and Feminist Frequency are not "the final boss of feminism", yet that's how they're portrayed.

Thanks for giving me an opportunity to elaborate on what I meant, I actually look forward to you calling me out on stuff.

Well, no. They claimed to have found them based on some rather tenuous evidence and have declared that a victory.

I'm not sure how compelling you'd find this https://storify.com/LadyFuzztail/gamergate-may-be-a-victim-of-a-false-flag-operati but it indicates a focussed effort on the part of some (not all) users of the Gamergate hashtag to stop harassment.

I can't speak for all of Gamergate of course. I can't claim that they are universally for one thing or universally against another thing. Even the ethics part has become extremely debatable.

 

[Bocaj2000]

\At the very LEAST, the GamerGate members who DON'T support trying to outright kill Anita just to shut her up should call out any of their members who tried to do so, if only in a "GUYS!! Stop making US look bad!" motive.

We do. The problem is that we get dismissed, censored, and fought against whenever we do. This is an obnoxiously slanderous Scotsman fallacy used by the other side to dismiss the rational majority at every turn.

 

[daxterx2005]

Wow I got a nostalgia rush from this episode. I forgot Histeria existed until you used the father time/big fat baby picture....

 

[Not G. Ivingname]

The problem was, Jack made hating him so %^*&ing easy. At one point he made a promise, if someone would make a game titled "murder simulator" that had the player going around killing game developers, he would give $10,000 to a charity. Someone did, making "I'm Ok: A Murder Simulator," at which point Jack moved the goal posts and stated the game needed to be published and sold. Penny Arcade stepped in, giving the money to Entertainment Software Association Foundation Charity, in Jack's name.

Then Jack sued Penny Arcade over this.

 

[WhiteNachos]

You can't dismiss the idea of a gamer culture in one sentence and then criticize it in the next.

That's like me saying Bigfoot doesn't exist then later talking about what an asshole Bigfoot is and how we should try to get him to stop being such an ass.

And comparing people to Jack Thompson is the ONLY time I've ever heard his name in years.

And comparing her to Anita isn't because Anita is advocating something as bad as bans, the comparison is made because Jack Thompson claimed violent video games cause violence and Anita claims they cause misogyny (and implies they cause violence without outright saying it like when she talked about real life domestic violence and then that makes games with certain kinds of violence against women was "dangerously irresponsible").

So thanks for the history lesson but everything else was a complete waste of time.

Oh and Bob, saying we need to clean out the mess (if by mess you mean video games that have what you perceive as sexism) just seems so bizarre to me. The whole point of free speech, of not having censorship is that people can make those games no matter how many people consider them trash.

 

[WhiteNachos]

Fun fact: He was disbarred, along with several others for a prostitution scandal.

That's not true, in fact his disbarment ruling is public record. He was disbarred for harassing people, sending frivolous lawsuits and unprofessional behavior.

 

[WhiteNachos]

ak93]I have never heard of Jack Thomson... So this was quite interesting. I don't know how I've been missing this.

Did you just start gaming recently (as in the last 4 years or so)?
Do you not live in America?
Did you not follow gaming news for a while?

 

[leviadragon99]

Yeah... as a gamer born, raised, and living outside America, I don't even know all that much about Jack Thompson, why he was ever relevant or why people would be still harping on about him.

 

[WhiteNachos]

If anything, doesn't this just support peoples comparisons of Jack Thompson to Anita Sarkeesian? I mean, if indeed Jack Thompson is just a guy with ideological hangups about violent cultures across a political spectrum, isn't that a word-for-word definition of Anita Sarkeesian's Feminist Frequency youtube channel?

Please do keep in mind she also criticizes movies, hip-hop and mediums of art besides gaming; she is - to me at least - someone very interested in pushing a certain agenda, not a video games critic. Same as Jack Thompson.

Anita isn't asking anyone to ban anything, or talking about how games are spreading homosexual thoughts into Our Children.

She's using basic Women's Studies 101 stuff to point out that video games are really kind of embarrassing in how they fail to really do well by half of the entire human race.

Big difference.

What does or does not "do well" by people is an opinion. Whether or not they cause violence is something that can be proven.

 

[crimsonshrouds]

0:54 seconds
Bob, That is when I stopped watching.
That is the point when I said I don't think I could watch any more of your stuff.
Bob, I've stuck through despite having differing views on gamergate.
Despite your twitter actions and your other attempts to swing the nature of your narrative in this manner.
When you made a plea for analytical discussion, I knew what your were trying to do much like how extra credits tried to provide a similar argument on their own channel and to date it will be their dumbest, weakest and least thought out episode to date.
I would have simply wrote this off as another pile of crap and I'd go back to my self fable of being Benjamen from animal farm but my brother spurned me onto watch up to 4:54.

Bob, I'm not mild a mild man, but try to be slow to anger.
People have gone years without ever seeing me so much as irritated and I pride myself on that.
This for the first time in years has gotten me genuinely upset.
I have never been quite as angry with you or what you represent then now.
Bob, if you think Mcint- i mean Anita is worth discussion, PLEASE center a video on it.
Explain things about here, give me a reason why her work is academically, Don't actually focus on any of the harassment, Explain why what she is saying, why she is saying it and look into the research she did to do it.
Do not hide tail and through rocks at us from trees, be honest with your intention.
Otherwise I will go through rationally and examine what she is doing and why she is doing it.
Frankly from what I see She is precisely like the Jack Thompson you described and more importantly her arguments use a similar sense of logic to his from what I've been able to stomach of that grade 9 presentation McIntosh calls a video.
There is legitimate criticism of her as a public figure and her academic methods.
I find the worst sin she has committed in her videos was she simply does not care, you can tell it in her tone and in her discussion, she has no love for our hobby.
And if you do create a video I suggest tackling the video she made about literally saying she Is not a Gamer and find them gross because she doesn't want to go around shooting people.

That being said, bob you have lost yourself another one of the few fans that could tolerate having different ideological views then your own.
You have lost a fan that has enjoyed your videos to this point and until today I don't think there is a video you've uploaded here that I have ever found myself unable to watch and this is the first.
Go have a in depth discussion with your friend, Dr Punchy Wright because He's doing a horrible job proof reading or your videos.
Thank you.
And stop releasing these videos timed with Jim, I wouldn't normally examine it this way but it's hard for me not to see what you are blatantly trying to do when I read the front page.

Does Anita (or whatever you just called her) bother you that much? I'm pretty certain Bob didn't defend Anita... Hold on I'm going to rewatch. Nope, he did not explicitly agree with everything in Anita's videos. He said she is not the same as Jack Thompson which is true to anybody who can control their hate stiffy. Be mine and Bobs guest and criticize Anita all you want, her methods, and uncaring attitude. I have never watched her videos or any "sjw" videos and I don't have any intentions of doing so. She has the right to say whatever she wants and you have the right to express yourself. Just remember she is not some great evil which I'm going to say based on your comment that you do. I say criticize her but then don't carry the animosity that comes from hearing her stupidity with you. To be honest I don't understand why people like GamerGate keep banging on about her. All you guys do is give her more visibility and a soapbox. People go as far as to insult and threaten her for so much as voicing her thoughts. This in turn feeds the fires of her "fans" to insult and threaten all of her critics whether or not they were the ones responsible. Now conspiracy nuts are going crazy on anybody who is even nice to her and people who have their own criticisms of misogyny in video game. I express all this as an outsider. You say:

People have gone years without ever seeing me so much as irritated and I pride myself on that.

I actually doubt this if Anita bothers you.

 

[WhiteNachos]

See, I knew better than to read the comments, but that didn't stop me. The cringe is real.

Anyway, good video, Bob. You've put yourself on my list of people whose opinions I should respect again, and while that may sound cold, trust me when I say that list is probably... well, just you, Jim and Anita, at the present time of writing this. Maybe a few others, too, but you get the idea.

Why respect him and Anita?

Bob straw mans his critics and mocks them by just giving them wihny babyish voices, like a child.

Anita ... well there's a lot to be said about her but I'm curious why respect her opinion?

 

[WhiteNachos]

Does Anita (or whatever you just called her) bother you that much? I'm pretty certain Bob didn't defend Anita... Hold on I'm going to rewatch. Nope, he did not explicitly agree with everything in Anita's videos. He said she is not the same as Jack Thompson which is true to anybody who can control their hate stiffy.

Bob is either missing the point or deliberately ignoring it. Most of the comparisons are about their beliefs, not their stated goals. I.e games cause violence vs. games cause sexism.

 

[crimsonshrouds]

\At the very LEAST, the GamerGate members who DON'T support trying to outright kill Anita just to shut her up should call out any of their members who tried to do so, if only in a "GUYS!! Stop making US look bad!" motive.

We do. The problem is that we get dismissed, censored, and fought against whenever we do. This is an obnoxiously slanderous Scotsman fallacy used by the other side to dismiss the rational majority at every turn.

Rational majority of what? I'll answer that. A leaderless mob of angry people who use a hashtag where the only requirement to be in this angry mob is to use the hashtag... That about sums up #GG's image problem. Please stop saying GamerGate has a rational majority because any rational person would realize why it is not rational to associate themselves with leaderless angry mob.