The Big Picture: Skin Deep

[mythil]

Do not agree with the video.

Why? How many Africans were where in Norse mythology? Okay yes, comic book, but still. If would be like if you made a comic book based on African mythology and made on of the characters white/Chinese/Indian for the sake of having them there. I know it's not a good example but lets take Vixen or Storm, what if they were white just because.. well just because.. Would kill a bit of the character, their backstory and so on.

If people really want some African or non white American/British or whatever heroes, then make some, don't change some.

 

[BreakdownBoy]

So this is racism in America. You guys are lucky. Two weekends ago a well known political youth leader of an 99.9% black political party said all whites are thieves and should be treated as such (Our president was there and just remained silent). The same guy would sing songs about killing white farmers and he says the opposition leader (a white woman) dances like an ape.


That's racism in our country and then nothing is done about it. Instead they call him a fine young man (he?s 35 years old!)

Like I said, you guys are damn lucky but then again not living in Africa makes you damn lucky.

Oh and I agree with Moviebob.

 

[Maximus_]

Really good one Bob, keep up the good work

 

[Calbeck]

Sorry dude. You lost me when you brought up slavery as an excuse for racism.

I'm with Martin Luther King, Jr. on this one. I dream of an America where people are judged not by the color of their skin, but the content of their character. Thanks to folks with your mindset, we will NEVER get there, because skin color will ALWAYS be something we need to have a double-standard over.

I only thank you for admitting that you have a double-standard.

 

[Soviet Steve]

Huh, no mention of the moors, corsairs, mongols or any of the other buggers who decided that the sundered and disorganized Europe left in the wake of the Roman collapse was a great place to fetch slaves or exterminating people for giggles, or that whole slavery and serfdom thing we had going on by which the vast majority of white people were enslaved by the ruling classes for thousands of years.

Oh well, my opinion is unchanged with respects to the casting of the black lad as the comic book character, he does not seem to look like the character he is supposed to depict, though it's good to hear that he delivered a good performance.

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

Bob, this was a very good video segment that I felt really drew in the Big Picture. Focal point: Thor - zoom out - lack of minority roles in American cinema - zoom out - America's history of racism. I'm not sure if it's because of the tone or quality of content on The Jimquisition, but lately I find myself liking your videos even more. I'm glad I watched it.

Sorry dude. You lost me when you brought up slavery as an excuse for racism.

I'm with Martin Luther King, Jr. on this one. I dream of an America where people are judged not by the color of their skin, but the content of their character. Thanks to folks with your mindset, we will NEVER get there, because skin color will ALWAYS be something we need to have a double-standard over.

I only thank you for admitting that you have a double-standard.

Uh huh. Even when there are no opportunities for black actors because films are written about, by, and for white adult males, produced by white adult males, and funded by white adult males. Clearly, we shouldn't go out of our way to tell stories where black characters are present, because, if they were worthy of character, they'd have roles in movies - despite nobody casting them.

No, that doesn't make sense. Nice try with the MLK Jr quote though. I'm sure you convince a lot of gullible people.

 

[Redd the Sock]

Love the video, this time more than most.

I remember watching MASH reruns and playing the game of "how often will the same asian actors show up playing differnt roles" game. It's not racist, it was just a reality they didn't have an endless supply of asian actors to supply endless side roles. It's pretty much the same here: there probably just weren't that many good perfomances from the Asian actors that showed up to play Goku while the talent pool that showed up to try for the minor role of the doorman in big gold armor was so small, they needed to go in a different direction to get the performance they wanted. We approach things like we could get any actor we want to fill any role, but in reality, not every actor is jumping to get into comic movies and we have to accept the best of who shows up, which sometimes means making a minor cosmetic change.

Addmittedly, I''ve spent a lot of time in my life around blind people, so a lot of the color thing is beyond me. Baring major icons, or characters whose identity is tied strongly to their skin color (I'd question a white Luke Cage or Black Panther) I think the performance is where characters should be judged, not their fit to a comic started 40 years ago.

Seriously, is there anyone that gives enough of a shit about Heimdal to complain they changed their favorite character?

 

[A Distant Star]

Generally I agree. I might feel different if they had cast a black man playing in a historical take on the Norse gods, but its a friggen super hero movie.

Though I do think the idea of people being outraged over race swapping is confined to which races are involved. I dont recall any one getting upset over Toruk suddenly being, well not Native American.

 

[Sofus]

I should probably mention that I haven't seen the movie, simply because I thought the idea behind it was terrible compared to the mythology stories I grew up reading about.

The only thing there is to discuss, is whether or not the actor is better than whomever they could have gotten. The same goes for all the actors that were cast.

 

[TiefBlau]

Am I upset about a black guy being cast in a white role? Nah. Don't care really. ESPECIALLY if he was as awesome as everyone says. I think they are allowed to change a character, especially through if they are modernizing it.

My only issue is that we shouldn't be allowing double standards at all. Sure, slavery was one HELL of a double standard that puts the "movie role" double standard to quintuple shame to the power of infinity, but a lesser injustice is still an injustice, and should not be allowed. Me robbing your store doesn't give you the right to step on my son's foot.

Am I being idealistic? Not exactly, because I'm not saying we shouldn't tolerate double standards, or that the only acceptable situation is when there are no double standards, only that we should constantly be aiming for as few as possible. We should not give free passes to a group who was fucked over centuries ago, simply because as long as they get that free pass, we as a society will never truly move on. It will continue to haunt and hurt both sides and I'd prefer we work towards that no longer happening.

You're still trying to enforce unrealistic ideals on actual results.

Let's look at it this way: There are literally, undeniably less roles suited for ethnic minorities in popular culture than there are for white people. And this is undeniably the result of a long, extensive history of ethnic oppression. The ideal, theoretically logical thing to do would be to make every role either culturally correct or completely interchangeable. But in practice, the latter ensures that no artistic liberty can be taken that doesn't suit all races (a white Malcolm X?) while the former makes an outstanding number of roles skewed toward the ethnically dominant. The imperfect concession that we make is to allow ethnic minorities to play traditionally white roles, because there just aren't that many roles they're suited for.

 

[Rottweiler]

Bob, in essence, making excuses like this is as bad as what you complain about. Equality is what a lot of us fight for. Not making excuses, not 'getting back' at someone for something that happened 20, 50, 100 years ago.

Revenge isn't Equality. Special Treatment isn't Equality.

And no, making excuses for a double standard because *you* think 'getting back at whitey' is okay is *not okay*. It actually undermines it by polarizing otherwise reasonable people. It makes people stop listening when pundits say it's okay for discrimination...as long as it's *reverse* descrimination.

I loved his portrayal of Heimdall. Loved it a lot. He's an incredible actor and I truly hope his career takes off.

But.

Let me pose you a question:

Let's say *I* made a movie, and I depicted say...Mohammed. As a White Person.

I think I'd be burned alive in my house and compared to Hitler.

However, I sincerely doubt any believer in Norse Mythology (they exist) is thrilled to death that one of their Pantheon was just depicted as being from Africa.

Make what excuses you want to, but we will never have equality here or anywhere unless everyone is *equal* instead of 'special'.

 

[Faerillis]

The slave card takes your otherwise fantastic argument and weighs it down considerably. A double standard of the past is irrelevant. The continued impacts of slavery (though considerably more notable down in the States) are relevant but slavery itself is not. No one here has ever owned a slave, nor has their father or their grandfather; they may have racist parents or grandparents but never slave owning so there is no guilt to be had. The slave card makes your argument sound more petty and puerile, which is too

Europe got brought up because someone mentioned how Europe has "moved passed" racism and colonialism helped the former colonies. Yes, America did terrible things to the Native Americans, but I wouldn't call it genocide so much as mass corruption. The Supreme Curt ruled the Cherokee Nation an independent country, but that was ignored. Factor in ignorance of the others culture on both sides, and you get a decades long conflict that ended with the Reservations where local officials would take much of what was intended to be distributed and sell it to make money. I'm not saying the government was blameless, but it was far less a genocide than some people make it out to be.

Also, Europe may have banned slaves in Europe, but they sure as hell still had them in the colonies. Hell, the Dutch Congo was a hell hole until the early 1900s if I remember correctly.

I wasn't referring to any posts about Europe nor do I think any nation has "moved passed racism." I was making a statement directly about the video and it stands: the slavery portion of Bob's argument is irrelevant and devalues the rest of it. Also what does Europe have to do with anything I said? I'm Canadian.

 

[ChupathingyX]

MLP is no way a perfect world in my opinion.

And The Last Airbender sucked not just because of the actors ethnicity, but because it just generally sucked and ruined the series.

 

[Steady Drain]

you are awesome bob, thanks again.

 

[Chrishu]

Let's be realistic. No one who isn't a little odd is still worshiping the ancient Norse Pantheon. It is in fact a dead religion. That being said the only people who should or could get offended, by turning the "god" into a depiction alternate of that it's was culturally assigned visage, is dead. And that same person would have probably taken offense if you turned his religion into a cheesetastic marvel comic about space vikings. And I'm pretty sure the entire cast of that movie is either British or American which means they AREN'T NORSE EITHER!!. That and it's a fucking Thor movie, about a space viking, who gets sent to AMERICA, not Norway.

Shall I go on?

The only part of that post thar I have to nitpick on is the "america, not norway" bit. Have you ever HEARD a finnish/swedish/norweigian accent in person? It's impossibly idiosyncratic. Even the best pf actors would have some issue with it. That's why the movie is set in the US.

 

[Rottweiler]

"Uh huh. Even when there are no opportunities for black actors because films are written about, by, and for white adult males, produced by white adult males, and funded by white adult males. Clearly, we shouldn't go out of our way to tell stories where black characters are present, because, if they were worthy of character, they'd have roles in movies - despite nobody casting them.

No, that doesn't make sense. Nice try with the MLK Jr quote though. I'm sure you convince a lot of gullible people."

And so do you. Make more movies revolving around black historical figures. I'll certainly see them. Don't complain until you try to fix the issue.

I stood in line for hours to see the movie about the Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr. So did a lot of people.

Please, don't try to claim a moral high ground. I don't agree on this issue because I think taking a member of an actual Religion and changing his Race simply for the sake of grandstanding and producing controversy is wrong. And your complaints about Hollywood don't change that fact at all.

Seriously, man- I'm about as far from racism as it's possible to be and be Human, but I don't think ignoring the bits of history that don't fit your little world-view, and supporting a double-standard because it fits your personal opinion, is a Good Thing. I think it hurts real equality to have people ignore reality in favor of revenge.

Ironic- people ***** about how 'white people' changed or ignored history. Yet as many here have pointed out- what, it's just 'white people'? Really? There's no awkward history for any other nation or race?

Who was big in *selling* slaves to the English? Hm? Ever taken a good hard look at the *actual* history of Africa and the Middle East? No, probably not- it would undermine your belief.

How many 'African Warlords' who are starving children to death *right now* are Caucasian? Can you name any?

But shh shhh can't bring that up it undermines the argument.

 

[ZeoAssassin]

wow a lot of people seem to be missing the point here

its not about "white guilt" or what making up for what our ancestors did several hundred years ago...

its about recognizing that the origin to many of our societies core norms (in this case one involving works of Fiction) we follow out of tradition have a foundation knee deep in racism and our general thought of minorities back then.

the double standard is a necessary evil in order to correct and break the norms in order for us to achieve true homeostasis as a culture freed of racism.

granted i have exceptions to this reasoning which involve historical accuracy and whether race defines a given character, but white guilt is not a part of Bob's point.

to think that American Slavery and racism from back then hasn't directly or indirectly effected our society is just silly people.

 

[paintman]

Well two things, first off nick fury wasn't "turned into Samuel L. Jackson" for the movies. The marvel movie versions of the superheros are heavily influenced by Marvel Ultimate universe. That said one of the biggest differences in ultimate universe if that nick fury is seamlessly transitioned into a black guy that yells a lot (so Samuel L. Jackson).

Second. That said I am with you that if a proper actor is cast, and a character doesn't not factor racial identity into their persona (black panther for example), then it is entire acceptable to change the race to keep thing new and interesting.

The example I will give that is unacceptable is taking the world of Avatar: the Last Airbender, which is primarily Asian and turning into a movie where all the good guys are coincidently white and all the bad guys are coincidently not.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

I have to say that I don't care for Bob's argument. I don't care that they swapped the race of a character I'd only heard of in the context of Norse mythology for the purposes of filling a role in a film adaptation of a comic I have never nor will I likely ever read. The problem I have is that Bob is dismissing this on the basis of "a double standard has always been the way it works". When your defense of something is "sure, it's bad, but things are always bad", perhaps you might be on to something were it not for the simple fact that resolving this instance of a double standard was trivially easy. As a general rule, when trying to support something, pointing out that it is obviously wrong is a silly move especially when the solution required zero effort.

A better defense might hinge on the merits the actor brought to the role, because that is almost certainly what matters in this case.

 

[AssOnFire]

Screw those nay-sayers! Black folks need representation in the Norse pantheon too!!! However else will they get into Valhalla?