The Big Picture: Skin Deep

[Icenflame]

Brilliant thoughts BOB! really enjoy the work you put out keep up the good work!

 

[rreetteepp]

Thing is, when they cast that white guy as goku... the white guy was a terrible actor and the movie was crap. wheras when they cast samuel jackson as fury, he was freeking awsome and the movies with him where awsome

 

[michiehoward]

Its not PC to say all this MovieBob it pure fact, awesome suming up of a topic that should have never been a freaking topic in the first place. WINNING

 

[michiehoward]

I sort of agree with Bob, and I sort of disagree. In my mind, the world we live in might as well be ideal, in the sense that mostly, race doesn't bother me at all when it comes to casting in movies.
I just don't really think about it. If the performance is good, hell, cast a black man as Gandalf and see how much I care.

Of course, if that black man does a bad job at depicting Gandalf I'll be pretty upset about wasting my money on a ticket, but that goes for all skin-tones.

Seriously, people. It's skin.
Not a big deal unless it's made a big deal.

But the black Gandalf isn't gonna suck because he's black.

Anyway....

Just like if this actor did horrible it wouldn't be because he's a black man. And lets face it Superhero movie's when it comes to quality depends a whole boatload on the audience's ability to suspend their disbelief. Your not gonna find many Oscar worthy performances, even for an actor who's job it is is to pretend, playing Gods, and Invincible immortals can be difficult as it qualifies outside of the realm of human understanding, not much you can relate to.

Why do you think they choose Anthony Hopkins for Odin, he has a history in the theatre, he can play to the back of the house, as it were. Gesticulating and booming notes in his voice, I wasn't surprised that Brannagh was picked to direct, again theatre experience.


What was my point.....blood hell can't remember

 

[knhirt]

But the black Gandalf isn't gonna suck because he's black.

Precisely!


All in all, there are worthier things to nerdrage about, such as Klaus not wearing his iconic glasses in the Series of Unfortunate Events film. What a disaster.

 

[Griffolion]

To be honest, all the characters in Thor could have been black, it would still have been a good movie (so long as the substituted black actors were good caliber). Race honestly has no bearing on my opinion of things, so this genuinely didn't affect me at all. We're all human, I don't get why that's so hard for some people to grasp.

 

[TStormer]

That was pretty accurate and summed up the argument well.

Also ponies <3

 

[Kenami]

i thought the reason people were upset about the dragon ball movie was because it was a train wreck, not because it had a white goku. i mean i never thought goku seemed all that asian to begin with.

Seriously! Glad to see I'm not the only one who feels this way.

 

[WaderiAAA]

Can you do an explanation of the after credits scene from Thor next week?

 

[honestdiscussioner]

The ideal, theoretically logical thing to do would be to make every role either culturally correct or completely interchangeable. But in practice, the latter ensures that no artistic liberty can be taken that doesn't suit all races (a white Malcolm X?) while the former makes an outstanding number of roles skewed toward the ethnically dominant. The imperfect concession that we make is to allow ethnic minorities to play traditionally white roles, because there just aren't that many roles they're suited for.

I still disagree. If I were to go to a country that was 90% black, and 10% white (somehow through the power of magical hypotheticalness there are no other minorities), I would not start demanding they change roles simply to suit "white people". I also wouldn't demand they keep roles within gender bounds either. I'd demand (or perhaps merely suggest) they go with what works. In the Thor example, it seemed to work quite well. There was nothing about the story that required him to be white, they are magical freakin' gods.

I believe in meritocracy. Roles should be given to whomever can play them the best, irrespective of race. That goes both ways.

 

[Arcane Azmadi]

Am I upset about a black guy being cast in a white role? Nah. Don't care really. ESPECIALLY if he was as awesome as everyone says. I think they are allowed to change a character, especially through if they are modernizing it.

My only issue is that we shouldn't be allowing double standards at all. Sure, slavery was one HELL of a double standard that puts the "movie role" double standard to quintuple shame to the power of infinity, but a lesser injustice is still an injustice, and should not be allowed. Me robbing your store doesn't give you the right to step on my son's foot.

Am I being idealistic? Not exactly, because I'm not saying we shouldn't tolerate double standards, or that the only acceptable situation is when there are no double standards, only that we should constantly be aiming for as few as possible. We should not give free passes to a group who was fucked over centuries ago, simply because as long as they get that free pass, we as a society will never truly move on. It will continue to haunt and hurt both sides and I'd prefer we work towards that no longer happening.

Did you miss Bob's point that the massive double standards being used against non-whites STILL EXIST TODAY? Not nearly as bad as they USED to be obviously, but if you'd honestly claim that a black person in modern-day America is in every way equal to a white person, you're deluded.

Umm . . . did you miss the point where I said we shouldn't allow ANY stereotypes or double standards, and that the existence of a double standard against one group does not mean it is okay for there to be a reverse double standard against the other group? You know, "two wrongs don't make a right", basic morality 101 here?

Not at all. You're saying there shouldn't be ANY double standards. I agree. But since there ARE, isn't it better that they balance out on both sides, rather than non-whites being constantly discriminated against while we sit around saying how sad it is?

 

[Cali0602]

Another point well spoken (if a bit hurried) by Bob. Now tell me more about these samurai cats...

 

[rokkolpo]

The only thing I have to say is that a Norse god shouldn't be black.

That's like casting a bald guy for the musical Hair,
like casting a man for a girl.

It just doesn't make sense, I couldn't care less about the whole slavery issue.
(Not my fault)

 

[Lynxan]

Boy I got in on this one late, and I am not reading 16 pages of replies, so if I'm being repetitive, sorry.

First off, I don't buy any of the "paying for the sins of our fathers" crap. My direct father did a lot of idiotic things that quite honestly I never want associated with, and I sure as hell am not going to right his wrongs, of feel I have to be for the ones that he might have wronged kids or grand-kids. It's idiotic say that the past gives them the right to a double standard. I can feel for them all I want, but when collages lower standards for this, and for what? Slavery itself was ended more then a hundred years ago and while segregation held on far longer then it should have, no one under the age of 40 have much experience in it.

Now I'm not saying that racism is gone, after all, making stealing illegal didn't stop that so thinking someone is going to accept others just because it's not legal. The funny thing is that as I go about my life, I've noticed that at this point there are segments of all the races that have a permanent looking down for other races and I get tired of being the only one that it's considered bad.

As for movies, I do think that diversity isn't a bad thing, especially for ones based on material that started when segregation was still about, or at least the mentality of it was still a lot more common. The examples in the Marvel movies prove this well. Hell, I wasn't one that was bothered overall by the idea of casting a black guy for the Spider Man Reboot. There is a lot of far more important things I think of for a super hero then there race. It's far more important that Spider man is a nerd (well, Peter anyway), Nick Fury is a bad ass and... arg.. can't remember the name of the guy in Thor, but for him, it was that presence of don't mess with me (and alot of that is in the eyes). Those are the traits I think of, not there skin color.

I think that the only time that I'd be bothered by a race change would be if it's a movie about a real person. For an example, I'd be wondering what the hell if they put a black man to play Andy Kaufmen in Man on the Moon, no matter how well they auditioned. I'd say the same if they had a white guy play Ray Stevens in Ray as well. Biography pics should go for what is as close to the subjects that there talking about, and this should include race.

In the end,like said in the video, it's not a perfect world and nothing is going to change it, so it's more just dealing with things as they come.

 

[rodain]

The only thing I have to say is that a Norse god shouldn't be black.

That's like casting a bald guy for the musical Hair,
like casting a man for a girl.

It just doesn't make sense, I couldn't care less about the whole slavery issue.
(Not my fault)

gods are depictions - we usually depict them based on ourselves or what we've seen, but unless you've seen six armed blue indians, you'll have to explain shiva for me. and there are things you can do by twisting movies and stories that makes it even more interesting, having a guy take on the role of a girl is actually a perfect example; say: a guy has a roommate, and the roommate is an ex-con, and everything seems a little off about HER... the guy feels like he's in danger and should tell the cops, but the cops tell him to man up; i mean, it's a girl.

by default it doesn't make sense, but having these twists are usually what makes an otherwise generic movie good.

I'm norwegian, read otherwise as scandinavian/norse, and i approve of black gods. the only thing i actually found strange about the movie was the asian guy - purely due to the accent, though.

 

[Optimystic]

I agree. Fuck Tyler Perry.

Dude who played Heimdall, thank you for getting yet another one of us out of those cesspit movies.

 

[SpoodyGoon]

Did anyone think that maybe the black person in question was the best actor for the job. Look at Michael Clarke Duncan as The Kingpin, I couldn't imagine a better actor for the role. An opinion that has nothing to do with his color.

 

[Jackle_666]

I've said it before I'll say it again and I'll say it to my dying day: Perfect casting for Capt. America? Will Smith. Without doubt.

However having said that I don't believe that providing ethnic minorities with an advantage over ethnic majorities in ethical debate is progress. It renders the equality of both races stagnant. It also provides a culture in which ethnic minorities become isolated by their own advantages and where racist minds are provided with the sense of inferiority and exclusion that nurtures and intensifies them.

Positive discrimination is still discrimination and has the same effects on both sides of the coin. And while I agree it may not be a perfect world it won't be unless equality is absolute and universal. Either it's OK for any race to play any role or it isn't at all. We just have to make sure that when when we cast white guys in ethnic roles it isn't part of a larger culture of eliminating diversity from mainstream audiences.

 

[TimeLord]

Thank god you brought up Friar Tuck, because I would have if you hadn't! He was frigging awesome in the Robin Hood TV series! No white actor could have played him better than David Harewood!

Also, yay for ideal world Pony reference!

 

[loodmoney]

I'm not going to contribute much to the discussion here, except to say: thankyou. I now have a great video to point people towards when I get into arguments about "double standards", "reverse racism", "colour-blindness" &c. &c., where people often seem to think that ignoring race will make racism go away.

Just one thing that I think Chipmann should have made more clear: this is not just about what has happened in the past. It is about what is happening today--inequality, oppression &c.--which is in many cases a legacy this past. Reparations for slavery in the U.S. is one thing, fighting inequality is another, more universal thing.