The Big Picture: Skin Deep

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Namewithheld

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I am amused that MLP:FIM is referenced as the perfect world without racism.

Zecora, anyone? There was only a whole episode about how all the Ponies were racist against her for being a zebra.

 

Crabby_the_Frog

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Great vid this week!

Also I liked how his ideal world is MLP. Maybe he IS a brony!


If you're looking for a topic for an upcoming week, throw some fuel on the fire and do one on MLP!
 

MBE

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M01070X said:
so correct me if I'm wrong but he's basically saying we're responsible for the actions of people that no living person can remember, even when there were plenty of white people involved in the equal rights marches. I suppose he also thinks that modern day Germans are responsible for the holocaust or modern Christians for witch burnings. yes it was a tragedy and an atrocity but there's sod all we can do about it now and a troubled history is not a license to label any critics as racist (I'm looking at you Israel, yeah we see what you've been doing to Palestine for the last God knows how many years)
I agree, to make this a perfect world, instead of the shitty one we currently have, we need to round up everyone who was alive in 1860 punish them for what they did! Yeah, that'll fix everything.

As for Israel, using MovieBob's logic, we should let them do anything they wish within Israel in compensation for what we Caucasians did to them during WWII and the centuries preceding. For as long as we of European decent had been oppressing Jews, we should facilitate them to flourish in Israel.

Please refresh my memory... How many Jewish suicide bombers are there in a given week? How many rocket attacks have there been from Jewish civilian population areas, thus preventing the "Palestinians" from retaliating? Yeah, I thought so.
 

Ampersand

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rancher of monsters said:
Ampersand said:
Does anyone else think that black superman is a great idea? Cause I sure as hell do :D
You know I had this exact arguement with my father on the way home from Thor and my answer is no. Since WWII Superman, Clark Kent, the main character of the DC universe, has been depicted with caucasian features. Now if krypton was written to also have black residents, and one of them worked along side, or took over for Superman, I'd be cool with that. But turning Clark Kent black is something I can't get behind.
The DCU has infinite versions of earth. There's a black superman somewhere :D
 

PrinceofPersia

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Ampersand said:
Does anyone else think that black superman is a great idea? Cause I sure as hell do :D
I agree, I also want to see a frair Tuck who is a Moor and some actual Middle Easterner heroes get on it Hollywood. Plus Idris Elba rocked as Heimdall he got that character of a watchman down pat.
 

Grey_Focks

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Holy crap Bob, this is one of those rare episodes where I can say "Yeah, I agree completely."

Well done, sir.

As for the topic at hand, my stance is this- If they either fit the character nicely, or just do a fantastic job of their interpretation of the character, their race really shouldn't matter, though making a non-white character into a white one is still a dick move, it's forgiveable if it's at least a good performance. This is a very rare thing.
 

lordofthenight

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With Thor, I felt it was a weird choice, but didn't really have a problem with it. After all, the premise (I've never really read much of the Thor comics, but how it came across in the films), was that the Norse Gods existed. Not that they were actually of Scandinavian origin or anything. So while they were worshipped by the Norse, there's no reason they should have been of Scandinavian ethnicity. Only have a few ethnic minorities amongst the Gods might've unmined that slightly, as it made them more obvious, but still.

What does annoy me more though, is the colour-blind casting in BBC programs (I'm British, so I have more experience with them) which are supposed to be historically set. Merlin and Robin Hood, both set in medieval England, but featuring black characters in important roles, without it ever remarking on why they're there just irritates me.
 

Xman490

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"...an ideal world..."
Woah, woah, woah! Even MovieBob has identified the awesomeness of My Little Pony? That's it, I'm watching an episode!
 

bj_waters

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I don't care what ANYBODY says, I want an episode (if not multiple episodes) devoted to Samurai Pizza Cats. And, while I'm dreaming, I want the entire series remastered put on DVD or Blu-Ray along with its Japanese original with subs. And a big screen television to play them on. With home theater surround sound. And some cake.
 

Vausch

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It always feels good when there's somebody with a voice that has an opinion mirroring your own. When I heard about Elba playing Heimdall, I really didn't care either way for two reasons: I'm not a big Thor fan and didn't know much about the characters, and we can all admit black comic book characters in the early days were... less than respectable? *coughEbonyWhitecough*

In any case, as long as the actor is good and the story is good and their part is good, I say race doesn't matter much. Heck, I wasn't even that upset that Goku wasn't Asian in Dragonball Evolution because he's an alien. I was upset and so downright enraged that the movie sucked so horribly I bought 5 copies in the dollar bin so I could destroy them over and over, but that's a tangent.
 

Patton662

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The reason why so many comic book characters are white is because the early comic book industry was racist as hell. Being racist was part of American culture at the time.
 

RitsukoAkagi2000

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Movie bob, I am a half black, half white, female gamer nerd. THIS WAS THE BEST EPISODE EVER! WELL DONE! I just had to tell you that
 

samus17

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While a black man being cast as a Norse god wasn't a deal breaker for me, it did stand out. If you want diversity in your movies, that's FINE, just do it right! Asgard, a land populated ONLY with Norse gods, was WAY more diverse than a town in the United States. That is doing it wrong! Double standards are an issue and shouldn't be excused because of the actions we could not control by our ancestors. And it isn't only black Heimdall; one of the warriors three was Asian. That bothered me JUST as equally. Norse mythology was full of a bunch of white people; we shouldn't HAVE to work AROUND that.

Also ponies.
 

Casual Shinji

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Uhm no, sorry, but a black Superman will not fly for me. Nor will a black Batman.

Skipping the whole "sins of our past", all I care about visual continuity. Making an iconic character like Superman black would be just as weird as giving him extremely long blond hair. Weren't you the one who hated the X-Men costumes in the movies because the iconic imagery was changed in order to suit the mainstream? That's what it's all about, so let's not draw the race card again.

Incidentally, I never really understood what race Goku was supposed be at all. He never really looked very asian and I doubt there even was a Japan or China in the universe of Dragon Ball.
 

hexFrank202

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My standard has always been to consider the color of one's skin like the color of their hair or the color of their eyes. Behavioral tendencies? That's other genetics, and culture and stuff. Totally different thing. That's how I look at it.

So casting a black guy in a formerly white role is okay if said black guy is awesome in that role. And it works the other way, too.

If a book about a badass asian man gets a movie based on it starring Christian Bale, because the studio felt the 'general audience' couldn't relate to an asian guy, that'd be racist. If the book got a movie starring Bruce Campbell, because the studio knew how badass Bruce Campbell is and thinks he'd be perfect for the role, that'd not be racist. Maybe stupid, but not racist.

As some people have said, your idea of the need to perpetuate double standards is kind of weird. But I think I get it. I think I understand why you feel that way. People like me (and most of the people disagreeing with you on this video) perceive the world as illustrated by Louie Armstrong. We didn't one day just decide to love the world, and it doesn't mean we're all nice people, we were just raised in a way that made us think of the world as being a good place, and having potential for greatness everywhere.

Then there are people like you who, for one reason or another, see the world under Murphy's Law. I won't know why, and it doesn't mean you're a dick, but just through no fault of your own you have a cynical outlook of existence.

So you see racism and double standards as something that can never be killed and can only be supplemented with guilt and special treatment. Other people see racism as something that's only lingering in the old boobs for a few more years until it gets plucked away and becomes as unpopular as rape and murder. And so we should just all be genuinely tolerant and have a problem with the double standards the movie-going public has on this topic.
 

Russano_Greenstripe

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bj_waters said:
I don't care what ANYBODY says, I want an episode (if not multiple episodes) devoted to Samurai Pizza Cats. And, while I'm dreaming, I want the entire series remastered put on DVD or Blu-Ray along with its Japanese original with subs. And a big screen television to play them on. With home theater surround sound. And some cake.
From what I understand, the original Japanese version was played a whole lot more straight than the US version; the dubbers basically threw out the original script and wrote a brand new one. The original Japanese team has gone on record saying that the US version is better.
 

Imp_Emissary

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MovieBob said:
Skin Deep

Sometimes embracing a double standard is the right thing to do.

Watch Video
So, a world that never had bigotry and hatred would be a would of many differentially colored ponys?
I don't know if its because I'm white or because I'm a human male, but I don't think I would be all for that.
( Not that I wouldn't want to save my differentially colored brother and sister humans from the hells that they suffered.
I just don't know if I would want to be a pony to get it done.)

p.s. I would like to see a Samurai Pizza Cats episode. Sounds neat.
 

TheSchaef

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Just as food for thought, and not necessarily because I disapprove of the casting of Heimdall on its face (the Warriors Three, after all, seem to be modeled after an Englishman, a Scot and a Mongol) - and definitely not because I recognize Sif's Jaime Alexander as Jesse from the show Kyle XY - but isn't Nordic culture also something worthy of treatment and exploration? While still technically European, Scandinavia's kind of up there by themselves compared to England, France, Italy, Germany, countries that form the core of the European experience. The producers must have thought so a little bit, since they cast Stellan Skarsgard in the film, but they took advantage of the opportunity to go diverse (again, prompted in no small part by the already-diverse collection of Asgardians) rather than go full-on Nordic and highlight anything particularly unique about their culture.

My problem with political correctness is not in getting terms like n***er and wop and kike out of the American lexicon, my problem is when people file lawsuits when asked to turn off their cell phones in a movie theater [http://jonathanturley.org/2011/02/23/delaware-supreme-court-overturns-ruling-that-movie-announcement-to-turn-off-cellphones-was-racist/]. The version of Political Correctness that is most universally supported is also known as Just Being Polite and Sensitive to the Needs and Wishes of Others, which people should be doing anyway without a racial or similar component. That makes a lot more sense to me than to say that if I'm not treated fairly for whatever reason, I should just suck it up because some other white guys did the slavery and colonialism bit a hundred years before any of my ancestors got on a boat from Germany (they missed both slavery and the Third Reich by a good 30 or 40 years each, and never lived anywhere but Ohio thereafter).

There actually seems if anything to be a triple-standard in Hollywood - not just double - whereby "Negroid" culture should be preserved and well-represented at all costs, any "Caucasoid" culture regardless of distinction from any other (e.g. Nordic vs. Italian) is expendable for purposes of diversification, and "Mongoloid" cultures are subject to "whitewashing" in order to mainstream an Eastern story for a Western audience. That last aspect is especially ironic as Asian characters are sometimes tossed into the "token diversity" mix, meaning we have Asian characters to keep a movie from looking "too white" and white characters to keep a movie from looking "too Asian" (see also: Airbender).

The real shame of this is some of the most memorable characters in cinema are simple, honest representations of their culture. Pat Morita, while American-born, is strongly descended from Japanese and portrayed a number of Asian characters in TV and movies (a Japanese navy admiral, a South Korean army captain, the emperor of China). The particular example I'm thinking of is the immortal Mr. Miyagi, where aside from training Daniel-san, he also gave a stirring insight into the inhabitants of Okinawa, occupied by US forces in WWII (our bases still take up about 20% of the island), and many of whom signed up to fight with the Americans to prove their loyalty, even as their families were interned (Miyagi lost his wife and son in Manzanar). He was the personification of a noble people in the face of wartime policies whose morality and effectiveness were questionable.

So I don't know if casting Heimdall black deprived America of a good glimpse into Nordic culture (considering it's a superhero movie based on their ancient mythologies, the impact is probably minimal), but it was a damn good casting. Casting a white Miyagi definitely would have deprived people of a glimpse of a tiny Pacific island culture, and while Airbender may yet be just another fantasy film, I think as a whole, culturally-accurate casting can have the real impact of introducing people to new and unique cultures, and not the feel-good faux impact of having every story sprinkled with one of everything. Another good example would be Invictus, which explored not only the rampant racial tension that continued long after the end of Aparthied, but also Mandela's efforts to build bridges for reconciliation more than restitution.
 

RanD00M

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Hæmdall? It's pronounced Heimdall, like in Corey Haim.

Also this topic and your points were kinda "no shit" worthy. Sure the general populous hasn't really taken it in, it is still pretty known.
 

drisky

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Bobic said:
drisky said:
My mind kind of wondered to SAMURI PIZZA CATS! OH YEAH!

Bobic said:
Is it ok that I, a British person, find the casting of a nordic god as black a bit daft because I am without all that slave owning history guilt? (Although I am sure Idris is awesome in Thor as he is a great actor. I saw his BBC series Luther and he kicked ass, you should all go watch it now)
What? Unless your Scottish, yes you do. Where do you think early america learned every thing it did? Racist fairies?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Britain_and_Ireland
Bah, most of those slaves probably weren't black. But, for the sake of those few that were. I'll go with the 'why should I be blamed what some people who probably aren't even related to me did 200 years ago just because I happen to be the same ethnicity' argument. In fact, I'd say it's racist of you to act like it's my fault simply because I share the same ethnicity.
Fine by me, I'm just saying its not to different form America, which abolished it only 32 years later. So no, I don't think you should be held acceptable, and believe me I've been called a slave owner, Native American killer, and Pagan killer directly to my face based on my ethnicity and religious background. I know the receiving end of racism. But America and Britain aren't that different, and I'm not completely sure of this, but I don't think every brit lacks "white guilt". But it all comes down to racial inequality that was quite prevalent in the time when super heros were being developed. Since its hard to find big name non-white heros, they settle for changing insularly characters, even if said character comes form something directly inspired by something European.